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Retro-GAF unite!

L

Laevateinn

Member
I'm playing a Phantasy Star retranslation right now and my save has disappeared. Hmmph. I just got to the Governor so I wasn't that far but it's still pretty annoying since Phantasy Star requires about an hour or two of grinding to get started.

I don't think it's an issue with the Everdrive though. I was using the Genesis I modded to allow for overclocking and region switching and it gets upset if one of the switches is bumped during gameplay. I probably bumped it while turning it off the last time causing the SRAM to get wiped.

Does the Everdrive only backup to the SD card when you switch games? I think I'll start doing that every time I turn the system back on just in case.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Laevateinn said:
Does the Everdrive only backup to the SD card when you switch games? I think I'll start doing that every time I turn the system back on just in case.
Click to expand...

Most of them, as long as they do SRAM+battery, don't even write to the SD card unless you load a new game. I got into the habit a while ago of making save backups to my PC for ED stuff every now and then when I'm playing a game
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
I think it depends on the Everdrive. If I remember right the SD2SNES writes it to the SD card like a second or less after its saved by the game.
 
K

Khaz

Member
iirc Everdrives keep the save in RAM until the next cartridge initialisation, when it's saved on the SD. on old Everdrives it means that you need to reset the console with the button on the cartridge, on newer Everdrives with a battery you can switch the console off, the save being copied the next time you use the console.
 
V

v0yce

Member
Can anybody help me out and let me know what all was included with a copy of Lunar 2 Eternal Blue Complete?

During the recent Gamestop retro sale I went ahead and ordered a bunch of stuff assuming everything would be gross, scratched and disc only and I'd return it, but to my surprise all the carts I ordered were authentic and in great shape. Most of the disc stuff was indeed disc only, but Legend of Mana came complete and below is what I got for Lunar 2 EBC.

pF0UU77l.jpg


I know there was a version with the big box and hardback manual and all but I wasn't sure if there was a version with just a regular manual or whatever.
 
P

Peltz

Member
I got Super Mario RPG... a game I've been meaning to play for years. This morning I booted it up for the first time and... yikes that art style doesn't look as good as I thought it would on my PVM. I thought scanlines would clean it up, (and to some extent, it does), but the art is still stylistically rough. I think the isometric perspective of everything does it no favors. If this were a top down game more like Zelda or Final Fantasy but with the same pre-rendered graphics, I think it would have aged a bit more gracefully. I think DKC uses a similar way to generate graphics, and it looks better due to the side scrolling perspective.

Still, there's some charm to the presentation and I will give this game a real shot. Like Paper Mario, the art style seems to be shooting a bit for a "diorama" like presentation.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
I played SMRPG on a SNES mini over composite. I dunno if I could handle RGB, lol.

Then again, I don't have any problems with DKC games, so maybe I could stomach it.
 
K

KC-Slater

Member
Peltz said:
I got Super Mario RPG... a game I've been meaning to play for years. This morning I booted it up for the first time and... yikes that art style doesn't look as good as I thought it would on my PVM. I thought scanlines would clean it up, (and to some extent, it does), but the art is still stylistically rough. I think the isometric perspective of everything does it no favors. If this were a top down game more like Zelda or Final Fantasy but with the same pre-rendered graphics, I think it would have aged a bit more gracefully. I think DKC uses a similar way to generate graphics, and it looks better due to the side scrolling perspective.

Still, there's some charm to the presentation and I will give this game a real shot. Like Paper Mario, the art style seems to be shooting a bit for a "diorama" like presentation.
Click to expand...

sixteen-bit said:
I played SMRPG on a SNES mini over composite. I dunno if I could handle RGB, lol.

Then again, I don't have any problems with DKC games, so maybe I could stomach it.
Click to expand...

That was a brutal-era for 16-bit graphics' art direction. Pre-rendered CGI art digitized to sprites looked atrocious more often than not. Killer Instinct, DKC, Sonic 3/& Knuckles -- gross.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
And here I thought you were going for the "two reasonable examples and then a joke one" joke for some humor. But yeah, they gave the title screen that 3d effect.
 
K

KC-Slater

Member
theSlacker said:
And here I thought you were going for the "two reasonable examples and then a joke one" joke for some humor. But yeah, they gave the title screen that 3d effect.
Click to expand...

S3K didn't use it to terrible effect, but it's certainly there. It looks like they pre-rendered the CG sprites, but then edited the bitmaps to look more in line with Sonic's traditional art direction. I'm guessing Sonic Team was feeling some pressure to lean that way due Nintendo's heavy push in that direction. (Also I mentioned S3K because I didn't want to come off as though I was picking on Nintendo, but Nintendo was the worst culprit.)

I remember at the time, those CG-style games (mainly DKC & KI) were marketed as though they were the herald of some sort of revolutionary graphic technology. In reality, the way the SNES was handling the source material (in this case, pre-rendered CG sprites) was exactly the same, lol.
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
I think Vectorman leveraged it to a much larger extent but there it wasn't that bad since it had a sci-fi theme.

Anyway, it's okay to pick on Nintendo since Sega is in general better anyway.
 
StevieWhite

StevieWhite

Member
KC-Slater said:
S3K didn't use it to terrible effect, but it's certainly there. It looks like they pre-rendered the CG sprites, but then edited the bitmaps to look more in line with Sonic's traditional art direction. I'm guessing Sonic Team was feeling some pressure to lean that way due Nintendo's heavy push in that direction. (Also I mentioned S3K because I didn't want to come off as though I was picking on Nintendo, but Nintendo was the worst culprit.)

I remember at the time, those CG-style games (mainly DKC & KI) were marketed as though they were the herald of some sort of revolutionary graphic technology. In reality, the way the SNES was handling the source material (in this case, pre-rendered CG sprites) was exactly the same, lol.
Click to expand...

I think the term they (at least Nintendo) used was ACM... short for Advanced Computer Modeling or something like that. To be fair, there was some serious hardware that went into making those models. For a time (an admittedly very short time), it did truly feel "revolutionary."
 
K

KC-Slater

Member
Laevateinn said:
I think Vectorman leveraged it to a much larger extent but there it wasn't that bad since it had a sci-fi theme.

Anyway, it's okay to pick on Nintendo since Sega is in general better anyway.
Click to expand...

Ah, good call -- completely forgot about Vectorman. Yes, that was definitely a response to Nintendo.

StevieWhite said:
I think the term they (at least Nintendo) used was ACM... short for Advanced Computer Modeling or something like that. To be fair, there was some serious hardware that went into making those models. For a time (an admittedly very short time), it did truly feel "revolutionary."
Click to expand...

Lol @ 'ACM'. That's true that it did require some beefy SGI workstations to create that art, so kudos I guess...
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
I agree personally, all those games looks kind of gross to me. Mario RPG and KI are the worst. Sonic 3 looks kind of 'dirty' compared to the first two.
 
P

Peltz

Member
D.Lo said:
I agree personally, all those games looks kind of gross to me. Mario RPG and KI are the worst. Sonic 3 looks kind of 'dirty' compared to the first two.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with you regarding Sonic 3. I had no idea it even used pre-rendered stuff until now.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Peltz said:
I respectfully disagree with you regarding Sonic 3. I had no idea it even used pre-rendered stuff until now.
Click to expand...
I think the characters are fine, but the levels, while more detailed and technically advanced that 1/2, have a semi-broken style to me. 1 and 2 have a traditional arcade style hard sharp edge to things. 3 softens the edges with that 'low res texture' look you get from pre-renders, but only of some game, so the style clashes with itself IMO.

Here's a quick example, the rock and characters look like a normal sprite game, but the grass, wall 'texture' and foliage, especially at the bottom, is a DKC style pre-render:
sonic-and-knuckles-and-sonic-3-03.png

But because of the limited colour palette, it looks more like Donkey Kong Country on Game Boy Color
Donkey_Kong_Country_GBC_ScreenShot2.jpg


SNES has way more colour so the pre-rendered stuff looks much richer, and the entire game is in that style so it all meshes.

donkey_kong_country-2108048.jpg


Sonic 2 looks so much cleaner, it's much better suited to the Mega Drive's abilities.
sonic-the-hedgehog-2-05.png
 
K

KC-Slater

Member
Laevateinn said:
I think Vectorman leveraged it to a much larger extent but there it wasn't that bad since it had a sci-fi theme.
Click to expand...

I think Vectorman uses some neat lighting effects, too. Agreed on the sc-fi theme -- the simplicity of the characters also worked well with that style.

I think my biggest beef with DKC/Mario RPG/KI's pre-rendered CG visuals is the brutal shadows on EVERYTHING and the super crushed blacks. It's like every visual element is lit by an individual theatre spotlight.
 
G

Galdelico

Member
Even worse... We got that, instead of a proper Eternal Champions sequel (one of the characters in the game - Shadow - comes from EC).
 
T

televator

Member
D.Lo said:
I think the characters are fine, but the levels, while more detailed and technically advanced that 1/2, have a semi-broken style to me. 1 and 2 have a traditional arcade style hard sharp edge to things. 3 softens the edges with that 'low res texture' look you get from pre-renders, but only of some game, so the style clashes with itself IMO.

Here's a quick example, the rock and characters look like a normal sprite game, but the grass, wall 'texture' and foliage, especially at the bottom, is a DKC style pre-render:
sonic-and-knuckles-and-sonic-3-03.png

But because of the limited colour palette, it looks more like Donkey Kong Country on Game Boy Color
Donkey_Kong_Country_GBC_ScreenShot2.jpg


SNES has way more colour so the pre-rendered stuff looks much richer, and the entire game is in that style so it all meshes.

donkey_kong_country-2108048.jpg


Sonic 2 looks so much cleaner, it's much better suited to the Mega Drive's abilities.
sonic-the-hedgehog-2-05.png
Click to expand...

I think those assets suit everything else in the visuals. Suiting the system is one thing, but I say having a cohesive style throughout trumps that. Overall I'm more a fan on S3's more stylized aesthetic as well.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Peltz said:
So... *takes a deep breath*

What does retro-gaf think of the Switch after the last 24 hours of news?
Click to expand...

Mostly I increasingly think that GAF is an incredibly toxic place to talk about anything Nintendo related.

Right now I'm cautiously optimistic. I'll wait for a smaller model / revision, and ideally EOL like I am for XB1 and PS4, but encouraging signs for me are the existence at launch of $40 games that you would see on 3DS, like Puyo Puyo Tetris, since I was worried the AA 3DS scene would collapse with this hardware. We'll see if that continues.

Zelda looks amazing, but I'm buying that on Wii U.

Mario looks weird. We'll see.

Xenoblade looks cool.
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
Peltz said:
So... *takes a deep breath*

What does retro-gaf think of the Switch after the last 24 hours of news?
Click to expand...

I love it. It's basically what I was expecting: a somewhat powerful portable console I could easily use on my TV. It seems like a good home for Japanese developers filling in the void that the Vita and 3DS are leaving.

I commute by train every day for about an hour and a half so it will be awesome being able to play this to and from work.

I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations on early software output for a new console. The only console that had a great launch and early lineup was the Dreamcast. Everything else has been limited to interesting titles, shovelware and, if they're lucky, a truly great memorable title. The Switch is no different. Hell, I'm still waiting on a title that makes me feel like the PS4 was worth it, which hopefully changes this month.

In all, the hardware is a big enough differentiator to what is already out there to make me excited. I'm planning on getting a lot of titles already. Yes, some of them are games I already own but they're games I enjoy and would welcome a chance to play again. That I can play them on a train or plane is a huge plus.

I'm looking forward to seeing what's announced in the future but it's clear that this will be my primary system for new games going forward.
 
T

Timu

Member
Peltz said:
So... *takes a deep breath*

What does retro-gaf think of the Switch after the last 24 hours of news?
Click to expand...
I'm waiting until it gets enough games for me to buy it. I plan to get the new Mario 1st and then see what happens afterwards. Very interested in it though.
 
P

Peltz

Member
I'm glad there's some positive reactions here. I just don't understand the software drought though. You'd think they'd have a nice launch library to make sure this system sold well out of the gate. It's my biggest concern. They've not had many heavy hitters over the past two years.

But the only huge first party games we're getting in 2017 (so far) are a Zelda port, Xenoblade 2 and Mario.
 
D

davidwhangchoi

Member
Peltz said:
I'm glad there's some positive reactions here. I just don't understand the software drought though. You'd think they'd have a nice launch library to make sure this system sold well out of the gate. It's my biggest concern. They've not had many heavy hitters over the past two years.

But the only huge first party games we're getting in 2017 (so far) are a Zelda port, Xenoblade 2 and Mario.
Click to expand...
Are we even getting xenoblade 2 2017?
 
R

RadarScope1

Member
Peltz said:
I'm glad there's some positive reactions here. I just don't understand the software drought though. You'd think they'd have a nice launch library to make sure this system sold well out of the gate. It's my biggest concern. They've not had many heavy hitters over the past two years.

But the only huge first party games we're getting in 2017 (so far) are a Zelda port, Xenoblade 2 and Mario.
Click to expand...

This pretty closely reflects what I thought after seeing the stream last night. I'm all for Nintendo being Nintendo (i.e. weird) and I'm really glad they've gone back to a more conventional controller design. I'm not big on motion controls but it seems like they've actually threaded the needle between standard dual stick and the Wiimote pretty well here -- it can do both without sacrificing much on either end of the spectrum.

But yeah, the games. What about ports? No Mario Maker and MK at launch? What about the NSMBU games? Even 3D World? Enticing the people who skipped the Wii U with ports of those games is very low hanging fruit.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Seemed like best case scenario to me. Decent jump up from Wii U in power and features, but portable, and many big games this year. Zelda at launch and a Wii Sports sort of thing sounds very familiar. A proper 3D Mario, not the IMO cheapo looking 3D World template, and looks fantastic (if a bit like Sonic Adventure done better lol). Splatoon is my game of the generation so that sequel is all I need.

I was down on the Wii U from the start, it was such a bad idea for a console. I've always said they should have just done a cheaper Wii 2 with a better remote. But this is finally the Wii U done right AND a Wii 2.

Price is fine too, it will be US$250 by Christmas with a game.

SheepyGuy said:
Mostly I increasingly think that GAF is an incredibly toxic place to talk about anything Nintendo related.
Click to expand...
The entire 'gamer' internet. It's always amusing to me that people are so price sensitive to $50, or maybe they would just complain whatever price it was?

RadarScope1 said:
But yeah, the games. What about ports? No Mario Maker and MK at launch? What about the NSMBU games? Even 3D World? Enticing the people who skipped the Wii U with ports of those games is very low hanging fruit.
Click to expand...
You can only reveal so much at once? Nintendo loves ports and remakes, so they will almost certainly happen IMO.
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
RadarScope1 said:
But yeah, the games. What about ports? No Mario Maker and MK at launch? What about the NSMBU games? Even 3D World? Enticing the people who skipped the Wii U with ports of those games is very low hanging fruit.
Click to expand...

Not just people who skipped the Wii U. I'd buy those games again because the user experience on Switch just seems better overall.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
D.Lo said:
The entire 'gamer' internet. It's always amusing to me that people are so price sensitive to $50, or maybe they would just complain whatever price it was?
Click to expand...

This shit just gives me flashbacks to the Wii U threads a few years ago. "Why isn't it $299? (it's $299) Why isn't it $250? (sales with $250) Why isn't it $200? (it is "refurbished") Why isn't it free?"
 
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