• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Reuters: Off duty, black cops in New York feel threat from fellow police

Status
Not open for further replies.
From the dingy donut shops of Manhattan to the cloistered police watering holes in Brooklyn, a number of black NYPD officers say they have experienced the same racial profiling that cost Eric Garner his life.

Garner, a 43-year-old black man suspected of illegally peddling loose cigarettes, died in July after a white officer put him in a chokehold. His death, and that of an unarmed black teenager in Ferguson, Missouri, has sparked a slew of nationwide protests against police tactics. On Saturday, those tensions escalated after a black gunman, who wrote of avenging the black deaths on social media, shot dead two New York policemen.

The protests and the ambush of the uniformed officers pose a major challenge for New York Mayor Bill De Blasio. The mayor must try to ease damaged relations with a police force that feels he hasn’t fully supported them, while at the same time bridging a chasm with communities who say the police unfairly target them.

What’s emerging now is that, within the thin blue line of the NYPD, there is another divide - between black and white officers.

Reuters interviewed 25 African American male officers on the NYPD, 15 of whom are retired and 10 of whom are still serving. All but one said that, when off duty and out of uniform, they had been victims of racial profiling, which refers to using race or ethnicity as grounds for suspecting someone of having committed a crime.


The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving. Five had had guns pulled on them.

Desmond Blaize, who retired two years ago as a sergeant in the 41st Precinct in the Bronx, said he once got stopped while taking a jog through Brooklyn’s upmarket Prospect Park. "I had my ID on me so it didn’t escalate," said Blaize, who has sued the department alleging he was racially harassed on the job. "But what’s suspicious about a jogger? In jogging clothes?"

The NYPD and the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, the police officers’ union, declined requests for comment. However, defenders of the NYPD credit its policing methods with transforming New York from the former murder capital of the world into the safest big city in the United States.
It makes good headlines to say this is occurring, but I don’t think you can validate it until you look into the circumstances they were stopped in," said Bernard Parks, the former chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, who is African American.

"Now if you want to get into the essence of why certain groups are stopped more than others, then you only need to go to the crime reports and see which ethnic groups are listed more as suspects. That’s the crime data the officers are living with."

Blacks made up 73 percent of the shooting perpetrators in New York in 2011 and were 23 percent of the population.

A number of academics believe those statistics are potentially skewed because police over-focus on black communities, while ignoring crime in other areas. They also note that being stopped as a suspect does not automatically equate to criminality. Nearly 90 percent of blacks stopped by the NYPD, for example, are found not to be engaged in any crime.

The black officers interviewed said they had been racially profiled by white officers exclusively, and about one third said they made some form of complaint to a supervisor.

All but one said their supervisors either dismissed the complaints or retaliated against them by denying them overtime, choice assignments, or promotions. The remaining officers who made no complaints said they refrained from doing so either because they feared retribution or because they saw racial profiling as part of the system.

In declining to comment to Reuters, the NYPD did not respond to a specific request for data showing the racial breakdown of officers who made complaints and how such cases were handled.

White officers were not the only ones accused of wrongdoing. Civilian complaints against police officers are in direct proportion to their demographic makeup on the force, according to the NYPD’s Civilian Complaint Review Board.

Indeed, some of the officers Reuters interviewed acknowledged that they themselves had been defendants in lawsuits, with allegations ranging from making a false arrest to use of excessive force. Such claims against police are not uncommon in New York, say veterans.

People who have taken part in the marches against Garner's death - and that of Ferguson teenager Michael Brown - say they are protesting against the indignity of being stopped by police for little or no reason as much as for the deaths themselves.

“There’s no real outlet to report the abuse,” said Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, a former NYPD captain who said he was stigmatized and retaliated against throughout his 22-year career for speaking out against racial profiling and police brutality.

Officers make complaints to the NYPD’s investigative arm, the Internal Affairs Bureau, only to later have their identities leaked, said Adams.

One of the better-known cases of alleged racial profiling of a black policeman concerns Harold Thomas, a decorated detective who retired this year after 30 years of service, including in New York's elite Joint Terrorism Task Force.

Shortly before 1 a.m. one night in August 2012, Thomas was leaving a birthday party at a trendy New York nightclub.

Wearing flashy jewelry, green sweatpants and a white t-shirt, Thomas walked toward his brand-new white Escalade when two white police officers approached him. What happened next is in dispute, but an altercation ensued, culminating in Thomas getting his head smashed against the hood of his car and then spun to the ground and put in handcuffs.


“If I was white, it wouldn’t have happened,” said Thomas, who has filed a lawsuit against the city over the incident. The New York City Corporation Counsel said it could not comment on pending litigation.

At an ale house in Williamsburg, Brooklyn last week, a group of black police officers from across the city gathered for the beer and chicken wing special. They discussed how the officers involved in the Garner incident could have tried harder to talk down an upset Garner, or sprayed mace in his face, or forced him to the ground without using a chokehold. They all agreed his death was avoidable.

Said one officer from the 106th Precinct in Queens, “That could have been any one of u
s.”
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0K11EV20141223?irpc=932
 
It's almost like racial profiling was legal in NYC for years or something.

I hope someone from the NYPD comes out and demands an apology for this article.
 

Paskil

Member
Yeah, these are some messed up statistics, but not really surprising, given the recent history of policing in New York City. I hope we see more black officers coming forward with their stories.
 

epmode

Member
It's so strange to hear active police talk about something like this. They're usually a goddamned wall.
 

_Ryo_

Member
Now if you want to get into the essence of why certain groups are stopped more than others, then you only need to go to the crime reports and see which ethnic groups are listed more as suspects. That’s the crime data the officers are living with

What? The reason for ethnic profiling is because people have been ethically profiled? Of course the ethnic groups that have been profiled are going to be listed more as suspects. Just what the fuck.
 

Syriel

Member
BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS DE BLASIO

oh wait I mean... goddamn @ those numbers

Would love to know what the number is for stopped, but committing no crime for white and Hispanic.

Not so much by way of comparison (because you know they're going to be a LOT lower), but just to have them handy.

The 90 percent is shocking enough, though it would be more so if contrasted against a much lower number.
 
It makes good headlines to say this is occurring, but I don’t think you can validate it until you look into the circumstances they were stopped in," said Bernard Parks, the former chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, who is African American.

"Now if you want to get into the essence of why certain groups are stopped more than others, then you only need to go to the crime reports and see which ethnic groups are listed more as suspects. That’s the crime data the officers are living with."

God I hate circular logic.
 

Dead Man

Member
Nice to see a few cracks in the thin blue line.

Officers make complaints to the NYPD’s investigative arm, the Internal Affairs Bureau, only to later have their identities leaked, said Adams.

Fucking cunts.
 

J10

Banned
Where's Christopher at with stories of black babies hugging and smiling at police? He almost had me convinced.
 

kirblar

Member
However, defenders of the NYPD credit its policing methods with transforming New York from the former murder capital of the world into the safest big city in the United States.
Almost every other city in the developed world got safer. It wasn't the NYPD, it was the absence of lead.
 

ItIsOkBro

Member
In declining to comment to Reuters, the NYPD did not respond to a specific request for data showing the racial breakdown of officers who made complaints and how such cases were handled.

by not responding, you responded, tbh.
 

MercuryLS

Banned
As a Canadian, I just don't understand. A black man doing normal things shouldn't invite police to question them randomly, I've never seen that happen here. Usually when someone is approached by the police here, regardless of race, it's due to something they're doing that is unlawful or raising suspicion. Imagine that.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
"The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving."

Yep. Definitely sounds similar to some of my friends/family who live in New York -- especially stop and frisking. Disgusting.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
That's some serious fucked up shit. I had no idea it was this bad out there. You know lines have been crossed when your own colleagues fear you.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Wow at "smashing heads against hoods of cars". Like what the fuck, these are your colleagues.

For real... could you imagine how humiliating this must be? And then to have to go back into work the next day... I just can't even relate.
 

kirblar

Member
As a Canadian, I just don't understand. A black man doing normal things shouldn't invite police to question them randomly, I've never seen that happen here. Usually when someone is approached by the police here, regardless of race, it's due to something they're doing that is unlawful or raising suspicion. Imagine that.
Months ago someone posted survey links where the police problems w/ race (as perceived by the citizenry) were much less of an issue in areas that were middle income or higher. (They didn't disappear altogether, of course.) The systemic poverty/underclass issue facing black Americans due to the legacy of slavery plays a large role in what's going on in areas like NYC/St. Louis. (See: the segregation dot maps: http://www.wired.com/2013/08/how-segregated-is-your-city-this-eye-opening-map-shows-you/ - looking specifically at Detroit, Birmingham, and St. Louis for the most blatant examples.)
 

Averon

Member
According to many, everything was fine before Obama, Sharpton, Holder, and DeBalsio starting talking. Black people loved the police! The relationship was great! But Obama and company's slick race hustling talk poisoned the well.

It seems the historical context of where this animosity towards the justice system in this country doesn't exist.
 
There's something called "Blue Code of Silence", which essentially means that police don't snitch against one another.

Shit's fucked up.

Mmhmm. Reminds me of the plot in Place Beyond the Pines where Bradley Copper ends up not wanting to play ball with the crooked cops on the force, ends up getting ostracized and death stares from everybody. I imagine that's exactly what these cops have to deal with whenever they decide to report someone. The whole system needs a gutting from top to bottom.
 

kirblar

Member
Mmhmm. Reminds me of the plot in Place Beyond the Pines where Bradley Copper ends up not wanting to play ball with the crooked cops on the force, ends up getting ostracized and death stares from everybody. I imagine that's exactly what these cops have to deal with whenever they decide to report someone. The whole system needs a gutting from top to bottom.
The disciplinary/audit force has to be independent. Same issue you have in the military.
 
As a Canadian, I just don't understand. A black man doing normal things shouldn't invite police to question them randomly, I've never seen that happen here. Usually when someone is approached by the police here, regardless of race, it's due to something they're doing that is unlawful or raising suspicion. Imagine that.

Not really.

Toronto has a black population of roughly 8.1%. Blacks made up roughly 23.3% of the stop and cards in 2013 (which is a rather high number in itself). While carding as a whole dropped in 2014 due to new policy, the percentage of black and brown skinned individuals rose. Specifically blacks went from 23.3% to 27.4%.

Or the montreal man who was arrested for "loitering" in 2010 was later awarded $33k due to being racially profiled. Dragged out his car, punched in the face and arrested for waiting in his car.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/montre...arded-33k-in-precedent-setting-case-1.1874294

This shit happens in Canada, I wish my fellow Canadians wouldn't try and play it off like it doesn't happen here. As a black Canadian male, this attitude doesn't help when I'm trying to discuss systemic racism that minorities face in Canada isn't a myth.
 
Same thing in Europe ^ luckily a lot less people end up dead but police abuse and targeting of minorities is a common thing almost everywhere. Its not US problem
 

JDSN

Banned
Racist Denial Force working on a new template because there is nothing about black cops on their manual.
 

Popstar

Member
As a Canadian, I just don't understand. A black man doing normal things shouldn't invite police to question them randomly, I've never seen that happen here. Usually when someone is approached by the police here, regardless of race, it's due to something they're doing that is unlawful or raising suspicion. Imagine that.
Where in Canada do you live? Plenty of stories of police misconduct against first nations people in the prairies for instance.

We have our racism here, it just has a different flavour than in the States because we lack their guns & prisons culture.
 

Aylinato

Member
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43


A quick look at actual statistics. Shows white people are way more likely to commit violent offenses. blacks and whites are almost equal in murder, however I have a feeling if police are only looking for blacks for crimes then they aren't actually looking for the real suspects.


Does anyone know how many cases have gone unsolved in the us by suspect race? That would be more telling I'd say.
 
The black officers interviewed said they had been racially profiled by white officers exclusively, and about one third said they made some form of complaint to a supervisor.

All but one said their supervisors either dismissed the complaints or retaliated against them by denying them overtime, choice assignments, or promotions. The remaining officers who made no complaints said they refrained from doing so either because they feared retribution or because they saw racial profiling as part of the system.

This is why I roll my eyes whenever someone uses the good cops defense.
 

Somnid

Member
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

A quick look at actual statistics. Shows white people are way more likely to commit violent offenses. blacks and whites are almost equal in murder, however I have a feeling if police are only looking for blacks for crimes then they aren't actually looking for the real suspects.

Does anyone know how many cases have gone unsolved in the us by suspect race? That would be more telling I'd say.

You need to adjust for population. They are equal in murder and yet there are about 5 times more white people than blacks in the US.
 

hwalker84

Member
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43


A quick look at actual statistics. Shows white people are way more likely to commit violent offenses. blacks and whites are almost equal in murder, however I have a feeling if police are only looking for blacks for crimes then they aren't actually looking for the real suspects.


Does anyone know how many cases have gone unsolved in the us by suspect race? That would be more telling I'd say.

I can say for certain that's the case in my neighborhood. I live in one of the top school districts in PA and graduated with 5 black kids not including me. The ran most of the blacks out of the area by closing the projects and shutting down subsidized housing. I've seen these kids get away with shit that would've sent me to jail. No one cares. Crazy amounts of hardcore drugs all around this area and they know but don't care.
 

Dabanton

Member
Why I'm I not surprised at all that this thread goes for less than a page.

As someone said none of the usual wheeled out talking points work in this context. How do you try to frame black cops as asking 'for it'
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom