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Robin Thicke Gives Bonkers "Blurred Lines" Deposition

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Fjordson

Member
Reading music == musical talent. Someone back me up. Amazing artists who never learned music theory
There's been lots of big artists over the years who couldn't. Of course most are escaping me at the moment. I wanna say neither Paul McCartney nor Bob Dylan could.

He has a very skewed view on race issues; he's the new black apparently

He's also a terrible singer

Let's not forget most Neptunes production, other than some classics, sound goofy and outdated as fuck nowadays.
He really is a lackluster singer. Like the songs he sang on Random Access Memories could have been so much better with someone else on vocals.
 

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I'm with you on this.. There are other examples of plagiarism worse than "Blurred lines"

Yeah but those songs suffer from

1. Becoming the number 1 song in the US
2. The singers sueing a family of a dead artist in hopes of not being sued themselves
 
DAMN PHARRELL it's ALL COWS EAT GRASS!!
LOL!

I didn't know about this so I just listened to the two songs. They both have similar percussion (I don't know what the instrument is, it's like someone tapping on a soup can) and both use a falsetto, that's about it. I don't think they should have bothered to sue first, no one would have noticed.
I noticed it on my first listen. So no, this would still be talked about even without the lawsuits.

I'm a huge, huge fan of Marvin Gaye, and 'Got To Give It Up' is one of my all time favorite songs. I love it.

I consider myself a music nerd, but I gotta say I don't think that 'Blurred Lines' sounds like a direct rip-off of Marvin's song. It's obviously inspired by it, and I can definitely hear the similarities in the bassline, but it's no more similar than countless soundalike rock songs that use the same riffs or 3-chord structure.

All the hate for Robin Thicke aside, does anyone actually think the songs are so similar that it constitutes plagiarism? Like worthy of a lawsuit? I guess that Marvin's estate is probably suing mostly as a reaction to the fact that they were sued in the first place.

What do you guys honestly think?
I'm honestly not sure about the legality of it. But even though Pharrell didn't literally go note for note and steal Got to Give it Up, it is too much trying to ape its groove and feel. I still remember listening to it the first time, and it was so obvious of a rip-off that I was a little disgusted, honestly. I have performed it in a few bands that I'm in, but mostly because of its popularity, not because I think it's a good song.

I equate this to a TV show or commercial which has a song that is so obviously trying to sound like the Mission Impossible theme (just as one example), but it isn't. Like the producers wanted to use the Mission Impossible theme, but couldn't because the royalties would be too high. So they hired some guy to write a song that sounds close enough to make you think of the song and its applications, but hopefully not get sued (because the melody and harmonic structure is changed just enough to not be exactly the same).

Differences:

Different key - Blurred Lines is in G Major; Got to Give it Up is in A Major (one whole step up; not that this fact matters at all, as you can still rip something off but just change the key and it would still be obvious that you ripped something off)
Different chords - Blurred Lines is much simpler: It only changes from the I chord (G Major) to the V chord (D Major); Got to Give it Up is more complicated: I (A Major) - IV (D Major) - V (E Major) - I - II (B Major)
Different melody - Though, the overall delivery is similar, as they use falsetto all throughout the song
Different lyrical content - I don't think this was ever in contention; this lawsuit is more about the music.

Similarities:

The "Groove" - It's hard to describe, but it's the overall "feel", as well as the underlying rhythm. While the drum pattern probably isn't exact between the two, if you were to play the drum pattern for either song over the other, it would sound just right. Even down to the use of the cowbell in both tracks. The basslines, again while not being exact, are very similar in the attack and overall feel. Same for the keyboard.

I'm in a band that does a medley with these two songs, and the only thing we change is the key to Got to Give it Up (bring it down to G like Blurred Lines) and we obviously play the correct chord changes for each song. But otherwise we keep everything else the same. The drummer does the exact same pattern, we don't change the groove at all. It's almost interchangeable from that perspective.

Again, I'm not sure about the legality of it all. That's above my pay grade. But this song is obviously a rip-off. Just like Modern Combat mobile game is such a rip-off of COD: Modern Warfare.
 
LOL!

I noticed it on my first listen. So no, this would still be talked about even without the lawsuits.

I'm honestly not sure about the legality of it. But even though Pharrell didn't literally go note for note and steal Got to Give it Up, it is too much trying to ape its groove and feel. I still remember listening to it the first time, and it was so obvious of a rip-off that I was a little disgusted, honestly. I have performed it in a few bands that I'm in, but mostly because of its popularity, not because I think it's a good song.

I equate this to a TV show or commercial which has a song that is so obviously trying to sound like the Mission Impossible theme (just as one example), but it isn't. Like the producers wanted to use the Mission Impossible theme, but couldn't because the royalties would be too high. So they hired some guy to write a song that sounds close enough to make you think of the song and its applications, but hopefully not get sued (because the melody and harmonic structure is changed just enough to not be exactly the same).

Differences:

Different key - Blurred Lines is in G Major; Got to Give it Up is in A Major (one whole step up; not that this fact matters at all, as you can still rip something off but just change the key and it would still be obvious that you ripped something off)
Different chords - Blurred Lines is much simpler: It only changes from the I chord (G Major) to the V chord (D Major); Got to Give it Up is more complicated: I (A Major) - IV (D Major) - V (E Major) - I - II (B Major)
Different melody - Though, the overall delivery is similar, as they use falsetto all throughout the song
Different lyrical content - I don't think this was ever in contention; this lawsuit is more about the music.

Similarities:

The "Groove" - It's hard to describe, but it's the overall "feel", as well as the underlying rhythm. While the drum pattern probably isn't exact between the two, if you were to play the drum pattern for either song over the other, it would sound just right. Even down to the use of the cowbell in both tracks. The basslines, again while not being exact, are very similar in the attack and overall feel. Same for the keyboard.

I'm in a band that does a medley with these two songs, and the only thing we change is the key to Got to Give it Up (bring it down to G like Blurred Lines) and we obviously play the correct chord changes for each song. But otherwise we keep everything else the same. The drummer does the exact same pattern, we don't change the groove at all. It's almost interchangeable from that perspective.

Again, I'm not sure about the legality of it all. That's above my pay grade. But this song is obviously a rip-off. Just like Modern Combat mobile game is such a rip-off of COD: Modern Warfare.

Thanks for the in-depth comparison.
 

rudii

Member
I'm a beat maker for a producer and from what it looks like, this song was just a standard production. Pharrell would have given one of his beat makers a direction, they would deliver the beat, Pharrel and possibly any other contributers (maybe ghost writers) would have written the topline/melody and lyrics, and Thicke would have just sung the thing and asked for a percentage later.

I'm not really surprised this is happening due to the amount of recycling and idea ripping that goes on in the industry these days. Chasing number 1 singles is a crazy game.

Still, everytime Thicke opens his mouth, he just comes across more and more like a douche.
 

bomma_man

Member
Let's not forget most Neptunes production, other than some classics, sound goofy and outdated as fuck nowadays.

nah man

Although I think it's wrong to rip someone off, I don't think this kind of similarity should be legally protected against. Although I generally abhor slippery slope or flood gates arguments, they're difficult to ignore when the difference between inspiration and copying is so fine. It's probably worth putting up with a few unsavoury outliers (a la those mobile Uncharted and COD rip offs) if the alternative would result in a chilling effect on art. It would be impossible to avoid the cases descending into value judgements. Straight up copying code or not paying for a sample is different.

tldr the Land Down Under v Kookaburra Sitting in the Old Gum Tree case was bullshit.
 

Cat Party

Member
There's been lots of big artists over the years who couldn't. Of course most are escaping me at the moment. I wanna say neither Paul McCartney nor Bob Dylan could.
None of the Beatles could read or write traditional sheet music. George Martin had to do it for them when necessary.
 
Actually, (I think) it goes back to his defense in an earlier part of the testimony where he referenced you can tell it's not a copy by looking at the sheet music.



Heh.

Damn, I was with everyone about not really a big deal if he can't read sheet music, but he claims he can.

Also, that Marvin Gaye song reminded me of Menace II Society.
 

Syncytia

Member
LOL!

I noticed it on my first listen. So no, this would still be talked about even without the lawsuits.

I'm honestly not sure about the legality of it. But even though Pharrell didn't literally go note for note and steal Got to Give it Up, it is too much trying to ape its groove and feel. I still remember listening to it the first time, and it was so obvious of a rip-off that I was a little disgusted, honestly. I have performed it in a few bands that I'm in, but mostly because of its popularity, not because I think it's a good song.

I equate this to a TV show or commercial which has a song that is so obviously trying to sound like the Mission Impossible theme (just as one example), but it isn't. Like the producers wanted to use the Mission Impossible theme, but couldn't because the royalties would be too high. So they hired some guy to write a song that sounds close enough to make you think of the song and its applications, but hopefully not get sued (because the melody and harmonic structure is changed just enough to not be exactly the same).

Differences:

Different key - Blurred Lines is in G Major; Got to Give it Up is in A Major (one whole step up; not that this fact matters at all, as you can still rip something off but just change the key and it would still be obvious that you ripped something off)
Different chords - Blurred Lines is much simpler: It only changes from the I chord (G Major) to the V chord (D Major); Got to Give it Up is more complicated: I (A Major) - IV (D Major) - V (E Major) - I - II (B Major)
Different melody - Though, the overall delivery is similar, as they use falsetto all throughout the song
Different lyrical content - I don't think this was ever in contention; this lawsuit is more about the music.

Similarities:

The "Groove" - It's hard to describe, but it's the overall "feel", as well as the underlying rhythm. While the drum pattern probably isn't exact between the two, if you were to play the drum pattern for either song over the other, it would sound just right. Even down to the use of the cowbell in both tracks. The basslines, again while not being exact, are very similar in the attack and overall feel. Same for the keyboard.

I'm in a band that does a medley with these two songs, and the only thing we change is the key to Got to Give it Up (bring it down to G like Blurred Lines) and we obviously play the correct chord changes for each song. But otherwise we keep everything else the same. The drummer does the exact same pattern, we don't change the groove at all. It's almost interchangeable from that perspective.

Again, I'm not sure about the legality of it all. That's above my pay grade. But this song is obviously a rip-off. Just like Modern Combat mobile game is such a rip-off of COD: Modern Warfare.

I'm fairly sure what you just explained is legally not a rip off. Pretty much what you can copyright in a song is lyrics and melody and harmony. Rhythm depends, but the rhythm instruments play for a song can be altered and the song will still fundamentally be the same if the lyrics and melody is still the same. You can't copyright chord progressions because there aren't enough of them to go around, everyone would be paying someone to use a progression. Same goes for drum beats.
 
I'm fairly sure what you just explained is legally not a rip off. Pretty much what you can copyright in a song is lyrics and melody and harmony. Rhythm depends, but the rhythm instruments play for a song can be altered and the song will still fundamentally be the same if the lyrics and melody is still the same. You can't copyright chord progressions because there aren't enough of them to go around, everyone would be paying someone to use a progression. Same goes for drum beats.
In the abstract, I would 100% agree with you. But, come on, have you LISTENED to these songs?

It is so obvious that they tried to make a song that sounded and felt very similar to the Marvin Gaye song. There is no way they created this in a vacuum, without knowing of Got to Give it Up beforehand, and the end result was a song that just happened to have this many similarities. These guys are savvy and know Soul music, so they know the song. It really reads to me that they made sure to change just enough to hopefully not get sued. Whether the Margin Gaye estate wins this case or not, I hope Robin Thicke and Pharrell are shamed by this whole ordeal.

Yes, chord progressions can't be copyrighted. There are only 12 notes we've got (at least in standard Western harmony; I don't think we wanna get into quarter tone notes and all), and so we don't got that many chords available. But just because you can't copyright I - VI - IV - V (the progression made famous by Stand By Me, among the countless pop tunes that use it today) doesn't mean you can lift the entire chord structure (including not only the progression but the voicing of the chords as well) of someone's tune and use it yourself. (This is tangential to this main topic, however, as the chords are different between these two songs.)

Back OT, I liken this to a person on trial, one who everyone knows committed the crime. The problem is that they covered their tracks pretty well, to the point where it is difficult to prove legally that they are guilty.
 

gdt

Member
Pharell never said he could read sheet music as far as I know. He talked on the Stern show about how he can't at all not that long ago.
 

Dragun619

Member
Reading music == musical talent. Someone back me up. Amazing artists who never learned music theory

Thom Yorke from Radiohead.

I kinda feel like most artists nowadays don't really know how to read music or just didn't bother learning it.
 
Lmao.

Can't believe someone could cheat on Paula Patton. Fucked up world we live in.

I still believe the rumor that they were basically in an open marriage and he just got way too brazen with it (and/or lied about who he was seeing, because open doesn't mean you're allowed to not say anything when you do).
 

Surface of Me

I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if Thicke was drunk and high when it was made, but I also wouldnt be surprised by him shifting blame. Perplexing.
 

DOWN

Banned
He's apparently really into horrorscopes!


52efbc9f8b53c9930800008c.gif


ugh he's dead to me
 

mre

Golden Domers are chickenshit!!
Well one thing we learned...Robin Thicke is about as loyal a friend, as he was a husband.
And what a bitch move by Thicke.
I honestly wouldnt be surprised if Thicke was drunk and high when it was made, but I also wouldnt be surprised by him shifting blame. Perplexing.
Why is everybody dogging Thicke? Pharrell's deposition was two days before Thicke's, and Pharrell testified to exactly the same thing that Thicke did: namely that Thicke had nothing to do with writing Blurred Lines other than suggesting that some lines be sung falsetto.
 
Why is everybody dogging Thicke? Pharrell's deposition was two days before Thicke's, and Pharrell testified to exactly the same thing that Thicke did: namely that Thicke had nothing to do with writing Blurred Lines other than suggesting that some lines be sung falsetto.

Yeah I mean they'd have to be pretty stupid to have not met up beforehand to 'get their stories straight'. Knowing that there's a lawsuit, it would make sense for them to agree upon the whole 'Robin was drunk and high, had nothing to do with the song, never said anything about the Marvin Gaye thing even though he's mentioned it in countless interviews, he was lying at the time'. It makes sense that their lawyers would instruct them to give that story, regardless of whether it's got any truth to it.
 

JABEE

Member
Thicke is a backstabbing asshole. Nothing brave about shifting the blame.

Thicke's going to get screwed over on his royalties too if they lose the lawsuit. His version of the story is completely believable. Even Pharrell only really credits Thicke for being the voice of the song. He basically takes credit for the words and the groove.
 
There's been lots of big artists over the years who couldn't. Of course most are escaping me at the moment. I wanna say neither Paul McCartney nor Bob Dylan could.


He really is a lackluster singer. Like the songs he sang on Random Access Memories could have been so much better with someone else on vocals.

Slash (Guns 'n Roses).
 

JABEE

Member
Yeah I mean they'd have to be pretty stupid to have not met up beforehand to 'get their stories straight'. Knowing that there's a lawsuit, it would make sense for them to agree upon the whole 'Robin was drunk and high, had nothing to do with the song, never said anything about the Marvin Gaye thing even though he's mentioned it in countless interviews, he was lying at the time'. It makes sense that their lawyers would instruct them to give that story, regardless of whether it's got any truth to it.

And people are surprised that an artist like Thicke would say he wrote the song when he didn't. This stuff goes on in the music industry, usually for the bigger pop artists. They get song-writing royalties just for performing someone's song.

Elvis and Colonel Parker would get their names and a percentage of the song writing royalties on many singles that Elvis put out.

The only off-the-wall stuff in this deposition is his weird Kubrick comments and his openness about his drug use and divorce. Him not writing the song and lying to the press to sell his record is par for the course in pop music.
 

Dyno

Member
Well one thing we learned...Robin Thicke is about as loyal a friend, as he was a husband.

Seriously. He confirmed to all that he's a total heel. Who is going to want to work with this clown again? He was a disaster from he walked into the studio straight on through until he folded like a nice sweater in the deposition.
 

YoungHav

Banned
Lmao.

Can't believe someone could cheat on Paula Patton. Fucked up world we live in.
Too many options. Robin and Paul get into a huge fight, Robin says "fuck this I need a cigarette" and angrily goes outside. By the time said cigarette is done 3 hot groupies have already offered their bodies to him.
 

Brakke

Banned
Can't look away from this guy. Guess he's over Paula, boy hit the ground running.

http://pagesix.com/2014/10/14/robin-thicke-throws-himself-a-divorce-party/

"Robin Thicke threw himself a big old divorce party on Friday, complete with a harem of models and Leo DiCaprio, Page Six has exclusively learned."

"Once [home after the clubs], they were met by DiCaprio, “The Dark Knight Rises” star Tom Hardy and “Into the Wild” actor Emile Hirsch."

"A source tells us, “There were a lot of models there. Leo and Robin were being super flirtatious and talking to tons of girls.""

Leo, flirting with girls?? You don't say.
 
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