lvl99 Pixel
Member
I found the rock slide scene, and boy is it funnier out of context ("good job pikachu!")
the weirdest part is that he calls this move Metal Claw
the weirdest part is that he calls this move Metal Claw
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
RTTP: The Pokemon...Moves. All 720, and counting.
- Thread starter Watch Da Birdie
- Start date
Sigismundo
Member
Interesting. It's nice to see a unique choice that's not the typical Entei/Lucario movie.
Amen. Original Hyper Beam was hype.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
What weakness could they give water type in your opinions?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Oh man, Gen 1 Hyper Beams off of Porygon Z would have been disgusting.
I mean, if you want to deal with this guy being fucking everywhere, sure, go ahead.
Poison. Pollution is a big deal for aquatic life.
TriggerShy
Member
I'm not much of a competitive player, but weaknesses people often bring up are Ice and Poison, however since Freeze-Dry is a thing and is currently only available to Ice types, I doubt Gamefreak would have Water weak to Ice. What could be possible though, is have Water be easily frozen by Ice moves. Poison makes sense to me, because of how pollution effects the ocean and it's wildlife. Few Pokémon actually learn Scald naturally, so it should probably be taken out as a TM and also cut back on the amount of Water types the can learn such strong Ice moves as Ice Beam and Blizzard. I don't think all Water types should be denied Ice moves entirely, because plenty of Pokémon can find some way to counter weaknesses, however, to me, Normal types should be the best at having that kind of coverage.
unknownstranger
Member
I'd be ok with this. I've thought about typing adjustments they should do for awhile. The main one is making Bug not so shit offensively. I would remove the Bug resists for Ghost and Fairy. Ice needs some kind of other resist. I was leaning towards Fairy but Water is probably more fitting.
The Bug resist for Ghost is so weird. Like... Why do Ghosts resist Bugs? What is the flavor here?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Submission/Jigoku Guruma
I prefer the stand-still jigoku guruma done by Daimon
Aquatic life? Yes. Water itself? Nah. One of the easiest ways to clear out trash ironically is washing it away, the reason why trash sits there is mostly because of lack of motion. Running water can clear out a lot of shit. Water is also one of the best diluting materials.
Want to add a water weakness? Dark. You can be mean to water.
So I watched through all the Johto anime stuff for the first time not too terribly long ago, and I hit an episode where the main characters + Team Rocket are lost and wandering around the woods or whatever.
And of all things, it was this random episode that made me go "man, the Pokemon world would kind of be horrifying to live in", despite how the whole overall friendly aesthetic usually covers that up well enough for me.
And that's because they didn't just run into Ursaring... those Ursaring then started firing off Hyper Beams. And I have to say, being chased by a bear already sounds horrifying, but then to have to worry about the beast firing freaking laser beams at you on top of that...
Edit: Since Fairy was kind of introduced as a problem-solving type to knock down the types running rampant, they probably should've made Water weak to it instead of Dark, logic be damned. Like, did Dark really need to take that hit?
And of all things, it was this random episode that made me go "man, the Pokemon world would kind of be horrifying to live in", despite how the whole overall friendly aesthetic usually covers that up well enough for me.
And that's because they didn't just run into Ursaring... those Ursaring then started firing off Hyper Beams. And I have to say, being chased by a bear already sounds horrifying, but then to have to worry about the beast firing freaking laser beams at you on top of that...
Edit: Since Fairy was kind of introduced as a problem-solving type to knock down the types running rampant, they probably should've made Water weak to it instead of Dark, logic be damned. Like, did Dark really need to take that hit?
Elaugaufein
Member
Dark didn't specifically need the hit but Hydreigon needed a 4x Weakness.
The Shadow Knight
Member
Hydreigon was never anywhere near as strong as some of its more OP pseudo-legendary brethren.
Dark is still a pretty good typing anyway.
Elaugaufein
Member
Hydreignon was actually a complete beast and a defining part of the Single Player competitive scene in Gen 5 because it had no real counter or check. It's way less of a monster in doubles though.
Nocturnowl
Member
I've always been on the poison should beat out water train.
My friend disagreed with me on the same logic as BossDoggie up there, which is fair but in the long run this is pokemon and not all weaknesses/resistances make sense.
Poison finally got a bit of a plus with the fairy addition at least.
My friend disagreed with me on the same logic as BossDoggie up there, which is fair but in the long run this is pokemon and not all weaknesses/resistances make sense.
Poison finally got a bit of a plus with the fairy addition at least.
Elaugaufein
Member
Fairy is such a ridiculous typing, only it's Poison and Steel weaknesses really make sense, everything else is just so obviously meta-game correction (and probably an over-correction in the case of Dragon, Resistance rather than Immunity would have been more than sufficient along with being Super-Effective).
Pieman0920
Member
Yeah, a forest of laser bears isn't great. I kind of came to the reasoning that the Pokemon world wasn't all its cracked up to be just because of the giant super bees that are quite numerous.
Also, the anime always seemed to be pretty willing to hand out hyper beams randomly too. Pack of hyper beam happy Ursaring aside, one thing that always bugged me was when Ash's Krabby evolved mid-battle, it somehow just knew hyper beam and shot one through its claw.
The Shadow Knight
Member
No, you're right. I wasn't even thinking about doubles. I guess I don't remember gen 5 singles too well.
That said it was still a far cry from gen 4 Garchomp which is what I had in mind when thinking of OP pseudos. Mostly due to its speed.
Elaugaufein
Member
I mean pretty much all fully evolved Pokemon can learn Hyper Beam and Giga Impact by TM but it is extremely rare as part of learn set but the Anime tends to treat TMs and Egg Moves as if they were part of the learn set.
Yeah, that 102 speed was pure troll / min-maxing by someone given that it allowed it to just outspeed a huge chunk of the Gen IV metagame (the extra 2 speed points made it faster than 22 Pokemon)
lvl99 Pixel
Member
I don't know if the anime should be worrying people
Ash literally takes lightning and flamethrowers to the face and team rocket explode a lot.
Evidently humans dont even seem to need hospitals or graveyards in that world while Pokemon do (unless im not remembering lavender town correctly?)
Probably worse to live in Hyrule or the Mushroom Kingdom
Elaugaufein
Member
The Anime is super inconsistent on things like that. Pokemon can singlehandedly demolish buildings or equivalent structures with Tackle at times and other times people can take Hyper Beams to the face and just get blasted away.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
well its a cartoon aimed at a fairly young audience
Z moves are animated like a WMD in both the game and anime but they're not supposed to be realistic. Unless im meant to believe im throwing a mountain sized piece of rock at the opponent in the middle of a town square.
giant bees alone would be incompatible with our understanding of insect biology and why insects cant grow very large (not to mention functional drill hands)
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Fighting-type moves continue to be pretty interesting to talk about...
Low Kick - Fighting [Physical]
Varies/20PP/100%
A powerful low kick that makes the target fall over. The heavier the target, the greater the move's power.
Now here's a move that's changed drastically since its inception---usually such major changes happened during the jump from Generation I to Generation II, but here the attack changed between Generation II and Generation III. It's kind of odd they didn't just leave this move as is since it was perfectly usable and just create a new move to represent the mechanic, but whatever.
So, originally Low Kick was a very basic Fighting-type move with 50BP, 20PP, and 90%---and a chance to flinch the opponent. At that time that was decent though for a Fighting-type attack, but it was only given out to the Machop line in Red and Blue and then Mankey in Yellow. It had a niche here though as giving the player an early Fighting-STAB to use against Brock's Rock and Ground-type Pokemon who could kill Pikachu quite easily, but after that it slowly lost its usefulness. Generation II only gave it to Sudowoodo, and it continued to be a rather lackluster and forgotten move.
Generation III came in though and decided to change it up, but not simply through buffing its BP---now its damage was based on the opponent's weight, and would either be 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, or 120. Generally most the Pokemon you'd end up fighting through the game outside of the early areas would typically fall in the 60BP category, though as time has gone on it seems like Pokemon have gotten heavier on average as Game Freak isn't as oddly conservative with weight as they used to be, where Pokemon like Charizard and Nidoking weigh the same that I do now, and I'm 5'9" and skinny as fuck. I don't think people really make use of this move though since you don't have that assurance of actually getting in a nice attack, and there are plenty of Fighting-type options by Generation III that prove more useful. Game Freak have introduced more weight-based mechanics over time, which is weird as they seem pretty gimmicky---Grass Knot got some use for giving many Pokemon one of their only Grass-type moves, but all the Abilities that manipulate weight and such just feel pointless.
Despite Generation III being its new and improved debut, they didn't give it to anyone---Machop, Mankey, and Sudowoodo kept it, only the first of which was actually in Ruby and Sapphire, but no one else got it. Not even through breeding. Generation IV finally started to give it to more Pokemon, both natural and through Egg Moves, and it became a Move Tutor learned by a fair amount of Pokemon. The move itself has become even more "useless" as even better Fighting-type moves have continued to appear that lots of Pokemon have access to, but it's more popular than ever in terms of distribution.
The Japanese name of this move is "Ketaguri", which translates to "pulling inside ankle sweep". It seems Fighting-type moves get the biggest localization changes, no? I don't blame them for changing it, but Low Sweep would probably work better. Funny thing is the future move that they did name Low Sweep is actually called "Low Kick" in the Japanese version. Anyway this technique is specifically a sumo move, "A kimarite* in which the attacker leaps aside at the tachiai and sweeps his opponent's front leg from the inside while slapping the shoulder or pulling the arm". Though they're the Sumo Pokemon, Makuhita and Hariyama couldn't learn it till Generation IV through the Move Tutor, and still don't get it naturally or an an Egg Move.
*TN: Kimarite means "winning technique"
*TN: Tachiai means "initial charge" at the start of a bout
Counter - Fighting [Physical]
20PP/100%
A retaliation move that counters any physical attack, inflicting double the damage taken.
Another move that has changed during its inception, Counter has always been about countering the opponent's attack though in Generation I it could only counter Normal and Fighting-type attacks, and though it was a Fighting-type attack the counter damage could hurt Ghost-type Pokemon. The damage was equal to twice the damage of the previous attack, though when it comes to multi-hit moves and partial trapping moves it only counters the last damage done. A simple enough concept, and though limited to only two Types could be useful in Generation I as many Pokemon carried Normal-type attacks with them as many had very little else to work with.
But, well, in Generation I this move was kind of fucked up. You see it seems the game stored the last damage done as a value which Counter took into account, and while normally this would reset there were ways to get around this. This led to the last damage value still being stored, and thus you could Counter non-attacks---this include items, no-move turns (like from paralysis), and even switching. It was even possible to counter the original Counter or self-inflicted recoil damage. Pokemon Stadium fixed these issues, but if you know the glitches and how to take advantage of them Counter can prove useful in the handheld games. There's even a way to use Link Cable desyncing to mess with how Counter works!
Generation II is where Counter came into its own, now specifically reflecting the damage doubled of all Physical-based moves (at the time this was of course by Type) giving it far more uses, though it now won't work against Ghost-type Pokemon, and it's stayed that way since. Though the moves that Counter, well, counters have changed in Generation IV with the Physical/Special split, it itself has not. Well, nothing major. There's little things like how it works in Double and Triple Battles, hitting the last opponent that attacked the user regardless of placement on field, and how if a theoretical attack does 0 damage Counter does 1 damage, but otherwise it's simply enough. None of the weird glitches exist either.
By the way, Counter was the first and only decreased priority move introduced in Generation I---in other words, it would typically go last when matched up against normal attacks regardless of Speed. This was of course necessary to make it useful, as if you went first there'd be no move to counter. Priority is a mechanic the games don't really explain that well within the adventure, generally it's simplified as "this move goes first" and "this move goes last", but it's important and Game Freak have introduced more and more moves and Abilities that utilize it. It's pretty important in the competitive scene, so you should look it up if you're interested in the competitive scene.
In Generation I it was limited to Hitmonchan naturally, as a boxer who would counter the opponent and all, but in Generation II a few other Pokemon got it though it became mainly associated with Wobbuffet, which along with Mirror Move was its bread-and-butter. In Generation III access to Shadow Tag led to Wobbuffet becoming all powerful, trapping the opponent and countering them with whatever it threw at him---it's no wonder Smogon banned it. Even if you don't agree with that, there used to be a real risk of two Wobbuffet holding Leftovers ending up in an endless battle ruining the match as neither could switch out. Other than Wobbuffet, I don't think there are that many big strategies that make use of Counter, though I've seen some niche ones while looking this up. Though it's hard to look for examples of this move as typing in "Counter" always results in the "Checks and Counters" section of Smogon being pulled up, focused on general counter strategies rather than the move itself.
Counter was a TM in Generation I, and then a Move Tutor in Generation III. You have a lot of Pokemon who learn it naturally or through breeding, and while many of them are Fighting-type Pokemon that doesn't seem to be a hard rule. One pattern that seems to emerge for the most part is that it's usually reserved for bipedal Pokemon, or those who become bipedal by the end of their evolution. Of the ones who learn it naturally, for example, Mudbray and Pyukumuku are the non-bipedal (or bipedalish, like with Wobbuffet who technically has four little legs), and then when it comes to Egg Moves you have Rattata, Nidoran, Lotad, and Sandile, to list a few, who all become bipedal by the time they're fully evolved. But then there are lots of Pokemon who are quadruped and stay that way.
Seismic Toss - Fighting [Physical]
Varies/20PP/100%
The target is thrown using the power of gravity. It inflicts damage equal to the user's level.
Another interesting Fighting-type move, Seismic Toss is a variable move like Low Kick and like Counter originally was technically "typeless", damage calculation not taking into account weaknesses, resistances, or Ghost-type immunities. From Generation II and up Ghost-type Pokemon were immune to it, but other than that its basic mechanic has stayed the same, inflicting damage equal to the foe based on the user's level. Thus as you level up this move becomes stronger and stronger, and in-game it can be quite useful as you can hit the opponent with a fairly solid move by the end of the adventure without worrying about resistances and such. Nowadays you of course have enough moves for coverage to not need Seismic Toss, but it was fairly useful in Generation I and I recall using it quite often.
In Japan this move is known as "Chikyuu Nage", or "Earth Throw". This doesn't seem to be an actual fighting technique, but the Japanese name explains why some animations have the screen spin around like the Earth spinning, or in some games like Battle Revolution showing the Pokemon literally thrown into space. Seismic Toss is a cool sounding name, though it seems someone on the localization team saw the "Earth" part and thought more "earth" than "Earth", giving it a name that sounds more like a Ground-type attack. Or maybe they thought "Earth Throw" felt lame and wanted to spice it up. Regardless it's become an iconic move in the series thanks to Ash's Charizard popularizing it in his fight with Magmar, becoming its "signature move".
Not a lot of Pokemon learn it naturally, and there's also not too many who learn it as an Egg Move---most of its recipients make sense as either Fighting-type Pokemon or "strong" ones you could imagine pulling off the move, but then you have someone like Volbeat. It was a TM in Generation I and a Move Tutor in Generation III, and it seems here it was available to virtually every bipedal Pokemon. It's actually a stricter distribution than Counter which seemed like it was following that bipedal-only rule at times, and the only bipedal Pokemon who learns it as far as I know is Arceus as a natural move. I guess this is meant to represent its status as a god, thus watching over Earth, and it has those "thousand arms" mentioned in some PokeDex entries I guess.
Strength - Normal [Physical]
80/15PP/100%
The target is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power.
Strength sounds like it could be a Fighting-type move, but has stayed as a Normal-type move since its inception. An 80BP Fighting-type move would probably been pretty cool early on, though Strength is decent as is. Nothing flashy, but reliable, and since it was an HM since Gen I through Gen VI it gave a lot of Pokemon over the years a decent "neutral" move to use until they gained better attacks. Nowadays most Pokemon probably pick up a few 80BP+ moves so Strength is less important, and without any bonus effect it sees no use in the competitive scene as far as I know.
As an HM, Strength allows the player (aided by their unseen Pokemon) to push boulders around. In the earlier games this was used mainly for puzzle segments, moving boulders around to clear paths and such, though in later games these were replaced with simply pushing a large rock into a hole to make a shortcut or new path. Taking out some of the "harder" puzzling elements to make the game more accessible, or Game Freak realizing nobody really liked those in the first place? As of Generation VII Strength has been replaced by the Ride Pokemon Machamp, and it follows the pattern of later Generations where you basically just push a large slab into a hole and that's it without any thought.
Strength could be learned by a ton of Pokemon through HM, which was good since it was one you'd want to have a party member carrying, though who could learn it wasn't exactly clear---with Surf and Fly you kind of had a general idea of which Pokemon to go for to learn it, and generally a Flying or Water-type Pokemon would be the answer. Strength, well, it's weird. There doesn't seem to be any real rhyme and reason behind it, and you have many users who don't seem that physically capable---though usually it's given to "land-based" Pokemon, and not the ones who get around primarily through flight or floating, but then you have exceptions there like Lapras, or some such as Ekans and Dunsparce which lack hands. Currently as it's no longer an HM or TM only Machamp can pick it up and learns it upon evolving, and I imagine if it sticks to him as a signature move it may get a boost and finally become a Fighting-type attack.
According to Bulbapedia, when this is used in Generation IV it pushes the user's sprite a pixel to the right each time. So, if you could somehow use this over and over through a hack, I guess you could eventually push a Pokemon off the screen?
Absorb - Grass [Special]
20/25PP/100%
A nutrient-draining attack. The user's HP is restored by half the damage taken by the target.
The first "draining" move, such moves deal damage to the opponent and then heal the user equal to half the damage they inflicted, rounded up. In Generation I and Generation II, draining moves wouldn't work if they broke a Substitute, or in the latter case would always miss a substitute, but now they will always zap the health from a Pokemon behind one. There's also been the introduction of Liquid Ooze, an Ability that hurts Pokemon who use a draining move, and the Big Root Hold Item, which increases the HP restored by 30%. While some of these draining moves can prove useful, Absorb is simply too weak to be used effectively other than in the beginning of the game when HP is low.
In Generation I, only Tangela, the Oddish, and Kabuto lines got the move, the latter presumably referencing how it drains fluid from its prey. A couple Pokemon learned it throughout the years, but in Sun and Moon suddenly a ton of classic Pokemon like Zubat, Paras, Spinarak, and Nincada learned it out of nowhere. Why? Well, Absorb didn't do anything, rather a similar move that those Pokemon learned, Leech Life, suddenly got a major boost in power and thus it was either removed from some Pokemon's move list or moved up, Absorb replacing it.
Low Kick - Fighting [Physical]
Varies/20PP/100%
A powerful low kick that makes the target fall over. The heavier the target, the greater the move's power.
Now here's a move that's changed drastically since its inception---usually such major changes happened during the jump from Generation I to Generation II, but here the attack changed between Generation II and Generation III. It's kind of odd they didn't just leave this move as is since it was perfectly usable and just create a new move to represent the mechanic, but whatever.
So, originally Low Kick was a very basic Fighting-type move with 50BP, 20PP, and 90%---and a chance to flinch the opponent. At that time that was decent though for a Fighting-type attack, but it was only given out to the Machop line in Red and Blue and then Mankey in Yellow. It had a niche here though as giving the player an early Fighting-STAB to use against Brock's Rock and Ground-type Pokemon who could kill Pikachu quite easily, but after that it slowly lost its usefulness. Generation II only gave it to Sudowoodo, and it continued to be a rather lackluster and forgotten move.
Generation III came in though and decided to change it up, but not simply through buffing its BP---now its damage was based on the opponent's weight, and would either be 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, or 120. Generally most the Pokemon you'd end up fighting through the game outside of the early areas would typically fall in the 60BP category, though as time has gone on it seems like Pokemon have gotten heavier on average as Game Freak isn't as oddly conservative with weight as they used to be, where Pokemon like Charizard and Nidoking weigh the same that I do now, and I'm 5'9" and skinny as fuck. I don't think people really make use of this move though since you don't have that assurance of actually getting in a nice attack, and there are plenty of Fighting-type options by Generation III that prove more useful. Game Freak have introduced more weight-based mechanics over time, which is weird as they seem pretty gimmicky---Grass Knot got some use for giving many Pokemon one of their only Grass-type moves, but all the Abilities that manipulate weight and such just feel pointless.
Despite Generation III being its new and improved debut, they didn't give it to anyone---Machop, Mankey, and Sudowoodo kept it, only the first of which was actually in Ruby and Sapphire, but no one else got it. Not even through breeding. Generation IV finally started to give it to more Pokemon, both natural and through Egg Moves, and it became a Move Tutor learned by a fair amount of Pokemon. The move itself has become even more "useless" as even better Fighting-type moves have continued to appear that lots of Pokemon have access to, but it's more popular than ever in terms of distribution.
The Japanese name of this move is "Ketaguri", which translates to "pulling inside ankle sweep". It seems Fighting-type moves get the biggest localization changes, no? I don't blame them for changing it, but Low Sweep would probably work better. Funny thing is the future move that they did name Low Sweep is actually called "Low Kick" in the Japanese version. Anyway this technique is specifically a sumo move, "A kimarite* in which the attacker leaps aside at the tachiai and sweeps his opponent's front leg from the inside while slapping the shoulder or pulling the arm". Though they're the Sumo Pokemon, Makuhita and Hariyama couldn't learn it till Generation IV through the Move Tutor, and still don't get it naturally or an an Egg Move.
*TN: Kimarite means "winning technique"
*TN: Tachiai means "initial charge" at the start of a bout
Counter - Fighting [Physical]
20PP/100%
A retaliation move that counters any physical attack, inflicting double the damage taken.
Another move that has changed during its inception, Counter has always been about countering the opponent's attack though in Generation I it could only counter Normal and Fighting-type attacks, and though it was a Fighting-type attack the counter damage could hurt Ghost-type Pokemon. The damage was equal to twice the damage of the previous attack, though when it comes to multi-hit moves and partial trapping moves it only counters the last damage done. A simple enough concept, and though limited to only two Types could be useful in Generation I as many Pokemon carried Normal-type attacks with them as many had very little else to work with.
But, well, in Generation I this move was kind of fucked up. You see it seems the game stored the last damage done as a value which Counter took into account, and while normally this would reset there were ways to get around this. This led to the last damage value still being stored, and thus you could Counter non-attacks---this include items, no-move turns (like from paralysis), and even switching. It was even possible to counter the original Counter or self-inflicted recoil damage. Pokemon Stadium fixed these issues, but if you know the glitches and how to take advantage of them Counter can prove useful in the handheld games. There's even a way to use Link Cable desyncing to mess with how Counter works!
Generation II is where Counter came into its own, now specifically reflecting the damage doubled of all Physical-based moves (at the time this was of course by Type) giving it far more uses, though it now won't work against Ghost-type Pokemon, and it's stayed that way since. Though the moves that Counter, well, counters have changed in Generation IV with the Physical/Special split, it itself has not. Well, nothing major. There's little things like how it works in Double and Triple Battles, hitting the last opponent that attacked the user regardless of placement on field, and how if a theoretical attack does 0 damage Counter does 1 damage, but otherwise it's simply enough. None of the weird glitches exist either.
By the way, Counter was the first and only decreased priority move introduced in Generation I---in other words, it would typically go last when matched up against normal attacks regardless of Speed. This was of course necessary to make it useful, as if you went first there'd be no move to counter. Priority is a mechanic the games don't really explain that well within the adventure, generally it's simplified as "this move goes first" and "this move goes last", but it's important and Game Freak have introduced more and more moves and Abilities that utilize it. It's pretty important in the competitive scene, so you should look it up if you're interested in the competitive scene.
In Generation I it was limited to Hitmonchan naturally, as a boxer who would counter the opponent and all, but in Generation II a few other Pokemon got it though it became mainly associated with Wobbuffet, which along with Mirror Move was its bread-and-butter. In Generation III access to Shadow Tag led to Wobbuffet becoming all powerful, trapping the opponent and countering them with whatever it threw at him---it's no wonder Smogon banned it. Even if you don't agree with that, there used to be a real risk of two Wobbuffet holding Leftovers ending up in an endless battle ruining the match as neither could switch out. Other than Wobbuffet, I don't think there are that many big strategies that make use of Counter, though I've seen some niche ones while looking this up. Though it's hard to look for examples of this move as typing in "Counter" always results in the "Checks and Counters" section of Smogon being pulled up, focused on general counter strategies rather than the move itself.
Counter was a TM in Generation I, and then a Move Tutor in Generation III. You have a lot of Pokemon who learn it naturally or through breeding, and while many of them are Fighting-type Pokemon that doesn't seem to be a hard rule. One pattern that seems to emerge for the most part is that it's usually reserved for bipedal Pokemon, or those who become bipedal by the end of their evolution. Of the ones who learn it naturally, for example, Mudbray and Pyukumuku are the non-bipedal (or bipedalish, like with Wobbuffet who technically has four little legs), and then when it comes to Egg Moves you have Rattata, Nidoran, Lotad, and Sandile, to list a few, who all become bipedal by the time they're fully evolved. But then there are lots of Pokemon who are quadruped and stay that way.
Seismic Toss - Fighting [Physical]
Varies/20PP/100%
The target is thrown using the power of gravity. It inflicts damage equal to the user's level.
Another interesting Fighting-type move, Seismic Toss is a variable move like Low Kick and like Counter originally was technically "typeless", damage calculation not taking into account weaknesses, resistances, or Ghost-type immunities. From Generation II and up Ghost-type Pokemon were immune to it, but other than that its basic mechanic has stayed the same, inflicting damage equal to the foe based on the user's level. Thus as you level up this move becomes stronger and stronger, and in-game it can be quite useful as you can hit the opponent with a fairly solid move by the end of the adventure without worrying about resistances and such. Nowadays you of course have enough moves for coverage to not need Seismic Toss, but it was fairly useful in Generation I and I recall using it quite often.
In Japan this move is known as "Chikyuu Nage", or "Earth Throw". This doesn't seem to be an actual fighting technique, but the Japanese name explains why some animations have the screen spin around like the Earth spinning, or in some games like Battle Revolution showing the Pokemon literally thrown into space. Seismic Toss is a cool sounding name, though it seems someone on the localization team saw the "Earth" part and thought more "earth" than "Earth", giving it a name that sounds more like a Ground-type attack. Or maybe they thought "Earth Throw" felt lame and wanted to spice it up. Regardless it's become an iconic move in the series thanks to Ash's Charizard popularizing it in his fight with Magmar, becoming its "signature move".
Not a lot of Pokemon learn it naturally, and there's also not too many who learn it as an Egg Move---most of its recipients make sense as either Fighting-type Pokemon or "strong" ones you could imagine pulling off the move, but then you have someone like Volbeat. It was a TM in Generation I and a Move Tutor in Generation III, and it seems here it was available to virtually every bipedal Pokemon. It's actually a stricter distribution than Counter which seemed like it was following that bipedal-only rule at times, and the only bipedal Pokemon who learns it as far as I know is Arceus as a natural move. I guess this is meant to represent its status as a god, thus watching over Earth, and it has those "thousand arms" mentioned in some PokeDex entries I guess.
Strength - Normal [Physical]
80/15PP/100%
The target is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power.
Strength sounds like it could be a Fighting-type move, but has stayed as a Normal-type move since its inception. An 80BP Fighting-type move would probably been pretty cool early on, though Strength is decent as is. Nothing flashy, but reliable, and since it was an HM since Gen I through Gen VI it gave a lot of Pokemon over the years a decent "neutral" move to use until they gained better attacks. Nowadays most Pokemon probably pick up a few 80BP+ moves so Strength is less important, and without any bonus effect it sees no use in the competitive scene as far as I know.
As an HM, Strength allows the player (aided by their unseen Pokemon) to push boulders around. In the earlier games this was used mainly for puzzle segments, moving boulders around to clear paths and such, though in later games these were replaced with simply pushing a large rock into a hole to make a shortcut or new path. Taking out some of the "harder" puzzling elements to make the game more accessible, or Game Freak realizing nobody really liked those in the first place? As of Generation VII Strength has been replaced by the Ride Pokemon Machamp, and it follows the pattern of later Generations where you basically just push a large slab into a hole and that's it without any thought.
Strength could be learned by a ton of Pokemon through HM, which was good since it was one you'd want to have a party member carrying, though who could learn it wasn't exactly clear---with Surf and Fly you kind of had a general idea of which Pokemon to go for to learn it, and generally a Flying or Water-type Pokemon would be the answer. Strength, well, it's weird. There doesn't seem to be any real rhyme and reason behind it, and you have many users who don't seem that physically capable---though usually it's given to "land-based" Pokemon, and not the ones who get around primarily through flight or floating, but then you have exceptions there like Lapras, or some such as Ekans and Dunsparce which lack hands. Currently as it's no longer an HM or TM only Machamp can pick it up and learns it upon evolving, and I imagine if it sticks to him as a signature move it may get a boost and finally become a Fighting-type attack.
According to Bulbapedia, when this is used in Generation IV it pushes the user's sprite a pixel to the right each time. So, if you could somehow use this over and over through a hack, I guess you could eventually push a Pokemon off the screen?
Absorb - Grass [Special]
20/25PP/100%
A nutrient-draining attack. The user's HP is restored by half the damage taken by the target.
The first "draining" move, such moves deal damage to the opponent and then heal the user equal to half the damage they inflicted, rounded up. In Generation I and Generation II, draining moves wouldn't work if they broke a Substitute, or in the latter case would always miss a substitute, but now they will always zap the health from a Pokemon behind one. There's also been the introduction of Liquid Ooze, an Ability that hurts Pokemon who use a draining move, and the Big Root Hold Item, which increases the HP restored by 30%. While some of these draining moves can prove useful, Absorb is simply too weak to be used effectively other than in the beginning of the game when HP is low.
In Generation I, only Tangela, the Oddish, and Kabuto lines got the move, the latter presumably referencing how it drains fluid from its prey. A couple Pokemon learned it throughout the years, but in Sun and Moon suddenly a ton of classic Pokemon like Zubat, Paras, Spinarak, and Nincada learned it out of nowhere. Why? Well, Absorb didn't do anything, rather a similar move that those Pokemon learned, Leech Life, suddenly got a major boost in power and thus it was either removed from some Pokemon's move list or moved up, Absorb replacing it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Seismic Toss's most famous user
Who really uses Seismic Toss the most
Who really uses Seismic Toss the most
coughgengarcough
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's ridiculous Seismic Toss is not a move that Charizard learns via level up. You either need to bring one all the way from Gen III, move one from the VC RBY release, or get an event Charizard released a few months ago. None of which would have the Alolan mark to make them legal.
In Smash Bros, Seismic Toss was not Charizard's up throw until Smash 4, his second Smash game. What the heck?
Pokken luckily realized that Charizard should probably have the throw attack everyone associates with Charizard and so it's a core move of his.
Ash's Charizard no longer knows Seismic Toss, if the anime keeps to the four move rule (which they generally do in recent years).
In Smash Bros, Seismic Toss was not Charizard's up throw until Smash 4, his second Smash game. What the heck?
Pokken luckily realized that Charizard should probably have the throw attack everyone associates with Charizard and so it's a core move of his.
Ash's Charizard no longer knows Seismic Toss, if the anime keeps to the four move rule (which they generally do in recent years).
Make Water weak to poison and we're set.
Is Water itself weak to Electricity? No.
Also, virtually all Water Pokemon are aquatic life, not beings literally 100% made out of Water.
balladofwindfishes
Member
There is exactly one Pokemon actually made of water, and it's an alt form of Castform. Volcanion and Rotom-W are water related machines. The other 99% of water types are aquatic life or regular animals + water like Suicune and Keldeo.
The amphibian Pokemon would especially be harmed by pollution. Irl Wooper are nearly extinct due to pollution.
On the subject of Low Kick, the move saw some competitive use thanks to Greninja learning it via move tutor in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. Protean Greninja gets STAB on everything, and it used Low Kick primarily for countering Pokemon that were heavy, so Low Kick ended up being a valid option.
TriggerShy
Member
Low Kick
Counter
Seismic Toss
Strength
Absorb
Counter
Seismic Toss
Strength
Absorb
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Seismic Toss's most famous user
Who really uses Seismic Toss the most
I remember that and fuck Chansey.
Spinosaurus
Member
I have never seen PBR's Seismic Toss animation before.
That's fantastic.
That's fantastic.
It's fallen from grace somewhat now, but low kick was the reason bulky Pokémon prized having 404 hit points or more - that number was enough to produce substitutes that could take a seismic toss.
Also, the HP formula is set so that no Pokémon ever has a max HP amount as low as it's level, so Seismic toss will never ohko a Pokémon of the same level as the user.
Also, the HP formula is set so that no Pokémon ever has a max HP amount as low as it's level, so Seismic toss will never ohko a Pokémon of the same level as the user.
Pieman0920
Member
Strength
I had no idea Happiny was one of Whitebeard's commanders.
Nocturnowl
Member
Just this week I got to bust out a stellar counter, Heracross tanking Claire's Kingdra hyper beam and just paying it back full force, good thing to because I had nothing else that'd work for that mon.
Feels strange though that the big thing midnight Lycanroc gets is COUNTER, an old, non rock move for its trademark while day form gets a new priority rock move.
Feels strange though that the big thing midnight Lycanroc gets is COUNTER, an old, non rock move for its trademark while day form gets a new priority rock move.
TriggerShy
Member
Yeah, I felt kinda cheated, but I nonetheless ran with Counter in my Lycanroc's moveset in Moon and I think I can understand the thrill of barely surviving an attack and then KO the opponent.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Isn't Night still considered marginally better though?
Yeah but water have various stuff in it, so it works out.
Also said Pokemon have water stuff from who knows where inside there system. Like I said they can pretty much detoxify themselves by washing themselves away from the inside to where ever the water comes from.
Yeah but water have various stuff in it, so it works out.
Also said Pokemon have water stuff from who knows where inside there system. Like I said they can pretty much detoxify themselves by washing themselves away from the inside to where ever the water comes from.
Elaugaufein
Member
The reason weight manipulation abilities aren't usually worth it is because they have idiot distribution eg most Pokemon who get Light Metal are so heavy it only benefits them by dropping them a single weight category against moves that hit heavy Pokemon harder*. Likewise with Increased Weight using only increasing their damage with relative weight moves against a handful of Pokemon.
There's just so many better things you can do instead.
* To add insult to injury many of those moved are physical and the heavy Pokemon that get them also have defense coming out of their eyeballs anyway.
There's just so many better things you can do instead.
* To add insult to injury many of those moved are physical and the heavy Pokemon that get them also have defense coming out of their eyeballs anyway.
megarockexe
Member
Low Kick
Ouch. I can see why the VC version dims the screen for those epileptic effects. Fortunately after Gen 2, it became less necessary to affect the whole screen to signal attack impact. Now in Gen 7, you get a big ol' foot cutting from underneath to trip the opponent.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
"Seismic toss" always made sense to me. You throw them at the ground so hard the earth shudders
unknownstranger
Member
Low Kick is decent in Ubers where almost everything weighs enough for 120bp and Pokémon like Greninja and Mega Mewtwo X lack better fighting moves.
Counter got revived in Gen 7 a bit when you could transfer Alakazam from gen 1 with it. It became a good set with Focus Sash to lure in physical attackers that think they can pick it off. Besides that it's mainly a gimmick as most things that learn it are physically bulky already.
Seismic Toss as mentioned already is the main attack for Chansey and Blissey as well as Registeel in lower tiers.
Counter got revived in Gen 7 a bit when you could transfer Alakazam from gen 1 with it. It became a good set with Focus Sash to lure in physical attackers that think they can pick it off. Besides that it's mainly a gimmick as most things that learn it are physically bulky already.
Seismic Toss as mentioned already is the main attack for Chansey and Blissey as well as Registeel in lower tiers.
megarockexe
Member
Oh, Earth Throw. Then I guess that explains this attack from Hyrule Warriors.
https://i.imgur.com/R7wkWaP.gifv
Cool thread, Im really enjoying this.
Pokemon always hit a weird spot for me. I started playing as a kiddo with Red and I tried to make cool sidewise teams like playing Bugs. I so so wanted to make Parasect work. But the actual answer was usually just to play a good type-spread of fast, hard-hitting 'mons. So even as I got older and actually started understanding more complicated games, I was stuck in a rut with Pokémon team design. I remember the first Pokemon I ever used in a game whose strategy wasnt just OHKO the other guy was a Muk I EV-trained for HP and Sp./Def. and then taught Toxic, Minimize, and Harden. Felt so good to just laugh at the AI swinging away uselessly while they ticked down to death. But that felt like a silly gimmick and definitely not the best way to play: battles took so dang long!
I always thought it was frustrating how Pokemon games had all these cool mechanics like moves that interact with Pokemon weights, but the optimal way to play campaign was always just to put together a team of sweepers. It didnt even occur to me to get into competitive Pokemon until Id already put in 100s of hours playing wrong in single player, and by then figuring out shit like Stealth Rock and Baton Pass was just so against my deeply engrained emotional expectations for how Pokemon works that I couldnt grok it.
Pokemon always hit a weird spot for me. I started playing as a kiddo with Red and I tried to make cool sidewise teams like playing Bugs. I so so wanted to make Parasect work. But the actual answer was usually just to play a good type-spread of fast, hard-hitting 'mons. So even as I got older and actually started understanding more complicated games, I was stuck in a rut with Pokémon team design. I remember the first Pokemon I ever used in a game whose strategy wasnt just OHKO the other guy was a Muk I EV-trained for HP and Sp./Def. and then taught Toxic, Minimize, and Harden. Felt so good to just laugh at the AI swinging away uselessly while they ticked down to death. But that felt like a silly gimmick and definitely not the best way to play: battles took so dang long!
I always thought it was frustrating how Pokemon games had all these cool mechanics like moves that interact with Pokemon weights, but the optimal way to play campaign was always just to put together a team of sweepers. It didnt even occur to me to get into competitive Pokemon until Id already put in 100s of hours playing wrong in single player, and by then figuring out shit like Stealth Rock and Baton Pass was just so against my deeply engrained emotional expectations for how Pokemon works that I couldnt grok it.
Seismic Toss's most famous user
It even made it to Pokkén:
And Smash!
The Magmar episode had a huge influence for sure.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Smash was just a generic down throw though, lack the spin.