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[defel]

When I watch a video of GuudeLP playing Knack I watch because of Guude. When I watch Etho play Minecraft I dont watch because of Minecraft I watch because of Etho.

All these gaming channels that have become popular are popular because people enjoy the personalities that play these games. Yogscast became successful because the derpiness of Lewis and Simon was so entertaining. SkyDoesMinecraft and PewDiePie became popular because people love watching them and shout, scream and derp around while playing games. This holds true for any channel with a dedicated subscriber base, no-matter how big or small - the personality is what keeps people watching these videos. In many cases the games are just a conduit through which people watch/listen to the person behind the videos. Publishers should realise that they stand to gain far more by keeping content creators on their side rather than alienating them or pushing them away.

 

[Dead Man]

This made me laugh...Corporations dont care about whats ethical.

No they don't. Which is why people need to make a noise when shit like this happens, it is the only thing companies do understand.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

It's good to understand the stance of actual publishers/devs on stuff like this.

If it wasn't for YouTube, Minecraft would have never of taken off.

Anecdotally speaking, your videos may convince me to get an Xbox One for Killer Instinct. I very much respect the time and effort you put into your videos and hope your paycheck doesn't suffer too much as a result of this. The people wishing for this thing to shutdown people like you sound bitter as fuck.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Ugh, fuck publishers, fuck youtube, fuck this industry.

Petty, petty bastards who in the end are just cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Pathetic.

It's not everyone that thinks this way. Just watching the dayz standalone dev stream on twitch yesterday and they said they couldn't wait for people to start streaming the game and making mods

 

[Silphonica]

Anecdotally speaking, your videos may convince me to get an Xbox One for Killer Instinct. I very much respect the time and effort you put into your videos and hope your paycheck doesn't suffer too much as a result of this. The people wishing for this thing to shutdown people like you sound bitter as fuck.

The guy behind stanley parable said he wouldn't have gotten the sales without let's players.

 

[ChosenPredator]

So what happens if you're a streamer like on twitch.tv and you're getting subscribers/donations or ad money towards playing a game is it the same type of thing?

 

[Zornack]

The guy behind stanley parable said he wouldn't have gotten the sales without let's players.

For smaller games without marketing budgets, yes. But no one with a PS3 doesn't know about The Last of Us. I don't think let's plays are getting large, well marketed games more sales than are lost through potential buyers watching a playthrough instead of buying the game. Lets plays of these smaller, less known games will continue to be a thing and there will still be Quick Looks and the like of the larger games so people can see what the game is like before buying - just not on youtube.

So what happens if you're a streamer like on twitch.tv and you're getting subscribers/donations or ad money towards playing a game is it the same type of thing?

I think publishers are just clamping down on youtube, so stuff like Twitch and GiantBomb should be fine.

 

[Senor Kami]

I think it's fine if they allow videos but don't allow people to monetize them. Well, perfect would be a forced revenue split if a video was monetized. That makes sense to me considering despite all the, "I watch for the personalities," these guys would probably die if they removed all gameplay and it was literally just their personality having to do all the work. The games are a critical part and publishers and devs deserve to be able to share in that wealth.

Free advertising is a bum defense. Unless these guys can prove that whatever amount they make per year off of YouTube monetization is on par with additional revenue they bring in to the game, devs/pubs are getting a bum deal out of the current situation. I'm honestly surprised more of them aren't Amazon affiliates and have code so they can both get a cut and be able to show potential sponsors facts about how many units sold they are responsible for.

Anyways, the internet has too much of a, "if you can do it on a technical level, then it must/should be ok on a legal level." That needs to come crashing down. If you want to make money off of games, it's shouldn't be via some super gray area. There are legit ways to do this stuff. Just because you do something on a technical level doesn't make it automatically ok and on the up and up. Even a small town local paper reviewing a film asks permission when they want to print images. These YouTube people have been operating on some Judge Dredd "I am the law" for too long.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Can someone explain to me why they deserve money and can't do it for the love of doing a 'let's play'? Is it because they used to get paid?

 

[Silphonica]

For smaller games without marketing budgets, yes. But no one with a PS3 doesn't know about The Last of Us. I don't think let's plays are getting large, well marketed games more sales than are lost through potential buyers watching a playthrough instead of buying the game. Lets plays of these smaller, less known games will continue to be a thing and there will still be Quick Looks and the like of the larger games so people can see what the game is like before buying - just not on youtube.

.

My opinion is different, the availability of content is driving sales in the gaming industry higher than ever before. Games and consoles (except wii u - but look at their stance on LP and videos) are selling like tits for free.

 

[Valnen]

Can someone explain to me why they deserve money and can't do it for the love of doing a 'let's play'? Is it because they used to get paid?

Because some people will have their livelihoods ruined by this.

 

[AppleMIX]

Can someone explain to me why they deserve money and can't do it for the love of doing a 'let's play'? Is it because they used to get paid?

Video editing takes a lot of work to the point where several of the top lets players have people solely dedicated just to editing videos. Not only that, the person has to be fun and entertaining. For every good lets player, there are a ton of bad ones.

 

[Luigiv]

They were most likely being realistic.

Fixed.

 

[angular graphics]

Video editing takes a lot of work to the point where several of the top lets players have people solely dedicated just to editing videos. Not only that, the person has to be fun and entertaining. For every good lets player, there are a ton of bad ones.

That doesn't exactly mean they should get paid any more than eg mod creators do (and these guys never get paid, even if they have spent years working on something).

In the sense that if they don't they probably won't be able to dedicate so much time in it, sure I agree.

 

[ahuffman]

As someone who enjoys let's plays, especially on older games, I just hope that the videos can stay. If they can't get money from them, that sucks, but at least we could still enjoy the videos. If they won't allow them at all then screw them all and Google as well.

 

[U-R]

It was bound to happen, let's play are a obvious violation of copyright.

No doubt indies will continue to allow those video to be made and monetized, big -especially single player AAA- games definitely have more to lose than to gain from random unchecked people spoilering their content.

 

[R0ckman]

Are the higher ups at Google from older generations, like babyboomers? I can't imagine younger ones wanting this. They seriously need to pass a law to force that generation into retirement already. They 've been fucking things up for a long time.

 

[Can Crusher]

Because some people will have their livelihoods ruined by this.

You say that as if that by itself means anything. Plenty of people get their livelihood ruined because somebody puts a break on them duping the system. To me this is duping the system, basically people who aren't creating anything are making money of not creating anything.

 

[fertygo]

I'm expecting a huge backlash from this, if true. No way Google's getting away with that unscathed.

LOL Google always won for this kind of thing.

 

[daegan]

My opinion is different, the availability of content is driving sales in the gaming industry higher than ever before. Games and consoles (except wii u - but look at their stance on LP and videos) are selling like tits for free.

Your opinion is not correct. The industry's sales have been in decline for quite a few years now.

 

[darkpower]

Codemasters here...

Just a heads up that what is outlined in the original article is wrong. Our YouTube setup (for want of a better word) is something I've worked on quite a bit so should be in the position to shed some light. Obviously things can change but currently, and as it stands:

• We have no problem with users creating content using our games.
  
• We also have no problem with users monetising their original content, even if it does use our games.

I don't think I've ever blocked a monetisation claim so not quite sure where the original claim has come from.

I wonder how many more from that list were misinterpreted if you guys were.

 

[Valnen]

You say that as if that by itself means anything. Plenty of people get their livelihood ruined because somebody puts a break on them duping the system. To me this is duping the system, basically people who aren't creating anything are making money of not creating anything.

You seem quite proud of your ignorance.

 

[Elvick]

You say that as if that by itself means anything. Plenty of people get their livelihood ruined because somebody puts a break on them duping the system. To me this is duping the system, basically people who aren't creating anything are making money of not creating anything.

They are creating something.

Commentary and unique gameplay.

No one is going to watch shit LPers just to see a game. They'll go back to search for either a good LPer or one without any voices to check out the game.

Otherwise, people are buying into the personalities. Not the games, though sometimes those personalities lead people into being interested in games they otherwise wouldn't have been.

If people provide a link in the description to go buy the game, I don't see the problem.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

You seem quite proud of your ignorance.

Please explain his ignorance.

 

[pelican]

People might disagree with me but I can see the publisher's point of view.

They are trying to control revenue made by individuals from their IP. I really don't see why You Tube channels shouldn't pay some form of licensing fee to profit from the developer's material. It isn't as the publishers are targeting a gamer sitting in his room uploading videos of his kill streaks or gaming achievements.

This has been a long time coming, and to be frank some you tube "commentators" need their egos clipped.

 

[Moral Panic]

Maybe you should learn about the difference between legally correct and ethically and logically correct.

I don't see what is ethically or logically correct about let's plays. They are a clear cut case of a derivative work, and is pretty logical that one shouldn't be entitled to create one without license, and furthermore to monetise it. Theres nothing ethical about having videos showing the entire game so people don't have to buy it. The cutscenes, the music and the sound and visual design are all part of the game and using substantial portions of the game in creating your own work without license is not right.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

You say that as if that by itself means anything. Plenty of people get their livelihood ruined because somebody puts a break on them duping the system. To me this is duping the system, basically people who aren't creating anything are making money of not creating anything.

I'm gonna use Two Best Friends Play as an example here:

Take away their commentary from the videos, leaving only game footage: I won't watch.

Take away the video footage of the game, leaving only the commentary: I'll still watch (or, well, listen).

My primary interest with them and most Youtube video game channels is less about the game footage and more about what people have to say about the games they're playing/reviewing.

At least CGR won't be too affected by this. I doubt anyone's looking to stop Mark from reviewing Intellivision and Atari 2600 games. :lol

 

[Dead Man]

I don't see what is ethically or logically correct about let's plays. They are a clear cut case of a derivative work, and is pretty logical that one shouldn't be entitled to create one without license, and furthermore to monetise it. Theres nothing ethical about having videos showing the entire game so people don't have to buy it. The cutscenes, the music and the sound and visual design are all part of the game and using substantial portions of the game in creating your own work without license is not right.

LOL.

1. You have conflated legal with ethical and assumed something is logical when it is not really.

2. Showing the game so people don't have to buy it? So Hasbro will be suing anyone who puts up a video of Monopoly? Games are not movies. They are to be interacted with. If someone doesn't buy a game after watching a lets play or something, it is because they didn't want it in the first place. Watching a game and playing a game are very different things. I feel kind of sad for you if you don't know that.

 

[Enco]

Glad the people making a living off these shitty videos will take the hit lol. Go do some real work

So jealous :lol

 

[James93]

LOL.

1. You have conflated legal with ethical and assumed something is logical when it is not really.

2. Showing the game so people don't have to buy it? So Hasbro will be suing anyone who puts up a video of Monopoly? Games are not movies. They are to be interacted with. If someone doesn't buy a game after watching a lets play or something, it is because they didn't want it in the first place. Watching a game and playing a game are very different things. I feel kind of sad for you if you don't know that.

Ehh with heavy story based games, there isn't really the incentive to buy it if you watched a lets play of it. That seems to be the major issues publishers are having, if your playing a story based game and making money off it

 

[Can Crusher]

You seem quite proud of your ignorance.

Such an empty reply.

They are creating something.

Commentary and unique gameplay.

No one is going to watch shit LPers just to see a game. They'll go back to search for either a good LPer or one without any voices to check out the game.

Otherwise, people are buying into the personalities. Not the games, though sometimes those personalities lead people into being interested in games they otherwise wouldn't have been.

If people provide a link in the description to go buy the game, I don't see the problem.

Commentary? You don't need a video walkthrough for commentary. Unique gameplay? Lol, so like everybody who plays the game.

I'm gonna use Two Best Friends Play as an example here:

Take away their commentary from the videos, leaving only game footage: I won't watch.

Take away the video footage of the game, leaving only the commentary: I'll still watch (or, well, listen).

My primary interest with them and most Youtube video game channels is less about the game footage and more about what people have to say about the games they're playing/reviewing.

At least CGR won't be too affected by this. I doubt anyone's looking to stop Mark from reviewing Intellivision and Atari 2600 games. :lol

Then you don't need 10 hour walkthroughs. Let these people do something worthy, like creating podcasts, do video pieces, you know... stuff like that. Nobody is against youtubers making videos about games, or using game footage to support their material. If they make money on that, then great, it's not different from a place like Rev3 games for example.

If it's simply a walkthrough with some shit commentary, then don't get paid for it. That's ridiculous. Old games I understand though, but when new games come out and the day after there are already video walkthroughs on youtube.... these guys are simple leeches.

 

[SlasherJPC]

Not sure what the big deal is. Just kill the guys in it for the money. Those that wasn't in it for cash, can still do it. Be glad you still can. Can you upload a movie with commentary? How about an entire album? Give ur comments between songs?

Talk about entitled. No fucking industry can you provide the entertainment digitally and make money off another's copyrighted work. Name one.

For my channel, my average montly income is 20 dollars so montization for me could go away and I wouldn't care. I started doing videos back in 06 and I only recently started making that small ammount. So while I feel for those who make a living off videos.. doing this for money?... I'd have stopped long ago if that was the case.

I have tried my hand at walkthroughs/lets plays but they just end up being content people only watch due to being able to see the whole game. I tend to do more reviews and even then my format has changed recently. I do a review play, which is anywhere between 10-20 minutes and its more like a combination of a giantbomb quick look and a review. I don't need to spend countless effort giving a opinion that really only applies to me but instead showcase gameplay which sells it to the player if they are so inclined to think it looks good.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Then you don't need 10 hour walkthroughs. Let these people do something worthy, like creating podcasts, do video pieces, you know... stuff like that.

What's "worthy" is arbitrary as fuck.

 

[DMiz]

To be honest, not sure how I feel about this policy, although the Codemasters post from earlier suggests that the rumour might be exaggerating certain bits and pieces.

Most of my favorite content on YouTube come from people who don't make it their job to produce videos; they usually treat it as a hobby, although I can imagine that being paid slightly for their work helps to drive them to make more.

In this sense, I'm not terribly affected. I can imagine some ventures being completely wrecked by this situation, but it's honestly not loud enough to cause a stink, given that it affects only a subset of YouTube, and one that - as we can see from this thread - is not sympathized with throughout.

 

[Nebula]

Devs and publishers hate free advertising of the games they make? No wonder this industry is going to shit and game creation/advertising costs are rising.

 

[defel]

Commentary? You don't need a video walkthrough for commentary. Unique gameplay? Lol, so like everybody who plays the game.

I know its a unique example but in a game like Minecraft, which is pretty much the most popular game on Youtube, the people who make Let's Plays in Minecraft are indeed providing unique gameplay - ideas on new things to build as well as exploring the mechanics and features of the game. Some games lend themselves very well to this type of video and those have been the games that have been successful on Youtube. I can understand publishers' objections to games that tend to be linear and story driven but there isnt any evidence that, for example PewDiePie's playthrough of Beyond: Two Souls, actually hurt the sales of the game. In that case its free advertising for Quanatic Dream on a massive scale.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

I know its a unique example but in a game like Minecraft, which is pretty much the most popular game on Youtube, the people who make Let's Plays in Minecraft are indeed providing unique gameplay - ideas on new things to build as well as exploring the mechanics and features of the game. Some games lend themselves very well to this type of video and those have been the games that have been successful on Youtube. I can understand publishers' objections to games that tend to be linear and story driven but there isnt any evidence that, for example PewDiePie's playthrough of Beyond: Two Souls, actually hurt the sales of the game. In that case its free advertising for Quanatic Dream on a massive scale.

You can never proof that, and anyone who says other wise just don't understand how the internet works just like piracy.

 

[James93]

You can never proof that, and anyone who says other wise just don't understand how the internet works just like piracy.

But it goes both ways to, besides some indie games you can't argue that youtube has driven more sales

 

[defel]

You can never proof that, and anyone who says other wise just don't understand how the internet works just like piracy.

You are right, it cannot be proved, but these things can be estimated. Publishers understand the return on investment from different avenues of advertising, we know how many people watch youtube videos, how publishers allocate their marketing budgets etc Its not a simple analysis, granted, but it is possible to estimate these things - economists answer these types of questions for companies all the time.

 

[Maidenpool?]

Wait ... if this happens, is Pewdie or whatever his name is out of a job?

 

[James93]

Wait ... if this happens, is Pewdie or whatever his name is out of a job?

No it probley will mean instead of a million a year he may make 800 grand

 

[akaoni]

Wait ... if this happens, is Pewdie or whatever his name is out of a job?

He's probably a borderline millionaire at this point.

 

[redhood56]

Do these companies know that they are fucking with peoples lives? People make a living off this.Someone said this before, but Minecraft would be nowhere without youtube. I see it as free advertising more than anything. But I am very into the Let's Play scene( i hate all the people that gaf hates like pewdiepie) so I hope this doesn't happen.

 

[EXGN]

They really just need to create some sort of sharing system. The big Let's Players are specifically targeted by a number of major video game companies as major advertising sources so it's kinda two-faced to turn around and say "Do all this advertising for us, but we get all the money!"

Best system would be some sort of 50-50 split between the Let's Players and the publishers.

 

[Maidenpool?]

He's probably a borderline millionaire at this point.

Huh, didn't know that. Just saw his stuff for the first time at last night's awards ... it was an education.
I decided right then and there that all the plans for video games to garner more respect on a cultural level will be meaningless as long as this guy is around.

 

[Nokterian]

Thank you based jim on the point as always.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

You are right, it cannot be proved, but these things can be estimated. Publishers understand the return on investment from different avenues of advertising, we know how many people watch youtube videos, how publishers allocate their marketing budgets etc Its not a simple analysis, granted, but it is possible to estimate these things - economists answer these types of questions for companies all the time.

And that is were I think they are so so wrong.

Peoples life are on the line here and you want to stop them from making a living on the estimate that yt videos are hurting more then the pr it gains? really?

Just because a publisher you estimated you lose more money then gaining from yt exposer is the same thinking that hold back digital music sales for over 10 years and made the internet culture be ok with pirating everything music related simply because they were not ready but the consumer was for YEARS and YEARS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZadCj8O1-0

Just have a level head and if you must split money with these organizations just down right stopping people from making some money and having free pr is ridiculous.

Just the same ridiculous arguments that the MPAA uses when sueing someone for over $1.000.000.000 for pirating a movie and seeding it to 1000 people just because that is ALL lost sales.
We know for a fact that is wrong and we know for a fact that not 100% of your audience was interested in your product in the first place but maybe just maybe now they are.

But it goes both ways to, besides some indie games you can't argue that youtube has driven more sales

True 100% true.
No one will EVER be able to prove anything one way or the other.
Just like music/movie/game/tv piracy.
But being the yt police and not allowing anything about your game on yt from the PL and other semi pro users is going to solve what?
Yeah 10 more people now both the game because it was not on youtube, and 500 less people have both it because they were never exposed to the game in the first place.

 

[BrassMonkey1010]

He's probably a borderline millionaire at this point.

Me is a multimillionaire already...socailblade stats state his yearly youtube income between "$1.2M - $15M".

 

[Ryaaan14]

This is going to be nuts if all these people have to go find regular jobs.

I'm curious who the white knight will be who still runs their channel as best they can making everyone else look like greedy assholes.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

I'm curious who the white knight will be who still runs their channel as best they can making everyone else look like greedy assholes.

This². If they actually take away all the vidyamoney from big shots like Pew and TB etc, I bet a LOT of channels suddenly and mysteriously lose their neverending true love for videogames.

But yeah, I guess this is another thing that won't matter to big channels and partnered Youtubers anyway, they will get their money.
I'm more afraid this again will only hit people starting out, those with little channels and smaller fanbases. As usual for Youtube.

I think videos on the internet need to start over from a different perspective, YT is completely fucked these days anyway. Sadly there's absolutely no competition for Google here. None. And I don't think new sites have a chance on this market.