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[Drensch]

I gotta say the crying and rationalization from ripdizz and oo Kosma oo, make it all worth the while. As if Wii success somehow makes their lives less worth living.

 

[boiled goose]

And you have your Nintendo goggles on too tightly to see my point for what it is. Whatever. Nintendo did not issue some decree to 3rd parties before they released their machine stating all games on their system had to be casual in nature, something I think you are implying I'm saying here. They did design a system that favored an environment of such games, yes, but that's not a dictate. The market has shown the Wii's demographic more than anything else. what sell are liscensed games, party games and Nintendo games. Please deny this. And guess what? THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL SEE IN THE FUTURE. OOHHH. AHH. Big prediction on my part there! Wow. It's not some fucking conspiracy against you and your sensiblities. Seriously.

I think you are generalizing... what sales have shown is that the wii demographic is very fragmented... you have some nongamers and casuals (party and licenses), you have some hardcore/nintendo gamers (mp3, zelda), you have a mature audience (re4 over a million, uc nearing), some jrpg fans (dqs @ ~ 500k in jpn) and a little bit of everything else...

Nintendo games sell well because of two reasons: there is an audience for them and they are for the most part solid efforts. The argument that is wrong is that nintendo system owners only buy nintendo games because they are nintendo games.... well the problem is that the wii is selling to people who did not own a nintendo system last generation (or ever). the wii will even outsell the gamecubes total sales any month now. Its a new audience, so if third party games dont sell well it is because they are not putting a good enough effort into development or marketing, or they are simply making the wrong kind of effort.

We have yet to see a third party effort on the level of bioshock, mass effect, cod4, assassins creed flop on the wii. (not talking only game quality , which is very debatable, but level of hype, marketing, and seriousness, etc) the assumption that these games wont sell on wii is usually based on misinformed speculation or misinformed hearsay.

 

[TheRipDizz]

They created a market where all types of games sell, which is why all types of games sell on the wii. Can you please tell me the 3rd party casual game that have outsold the more successful 3rd party games that were created for a more traditional audience. Was the premier Nintendo game of 2007 that Nintendo focused their entire holidays on a minigame?


Is the next big wii game a casual game or a core game?

If i had to guess, it'd probably be a Nintendo game which I already stated, sells like a motherfucker on the system. Come talk to me when you figure out why Sonic and the Secret Rings will be lucky to sell a tenth as much as Mario and Sonic at the Olympics. I'll tell you right now, the reason for the winner of that battle had nothing to do with what game was better. Nintendo games sell on a Nintendo systems. Wonders will never cease. :|

 

[TheRipDizz]

I gotta say the crying and rationalization from ripdizz and oo Kosma oo, make it all worth the while. As if Wii success somehow makes their lives less worth living.

And your contribution to this thread is?......

 

[avatar299]

If i had to guess, it'd probably be a Nintendo game which I already stated, sells like a motherfucker on the system. Come talk to me when you figure out why Sonic and the Secret Rings will be lucky to sell a tenth as much as Mario and Sonic at the Olympics. I'll tell you right now, the reason for the winner of that battle had nothing to do with what game was better. Nintendo games sell on a Nintendo systems. Wonders will never cease. :|

Um the Olympics was published by Sega, so the idea that their are a million ravenous ninfans waiting to gobble it up is a little hilarious.

Especially compared to a game that came out 9 months ago and had a far lower userbase to work with.

And your guess would be wrong. Dragon Quest Swords is a SE game that will likely go well over a million worldwide when it releases next month.

 

[TheRipDizz]

I think you are generalizing... what sales have shown is that the wii demographic is very fragmented... you have some nongamers and casuals (party and licenses), you have some hardcore/nintendo gamers (mp3, zelda), you have a mature audience (re4 over a million, uc nearing), some jrpg fans (dqs @ ~ 500k in jpn) and a little bit of everything else...

Nintendo games sell well because of two reasons: there is an audience for them and they are for the most part solid efforts. The argument that is wrong is that nintendo system owners only buy nintendo games because they are nintendo games.... well the problem is that the wii is selling to people who did not own a nintendo system last generation (or ever). the wii will even outsell the gamecubes total sales any month now. Its a new audience, so if third party games dont sell well it is because they are not putting a good enough effort into development or marketing, or they are simply making the wrong kind of effort.

We have yet to see a third party effort on the level of bioshock, mass effect, cod4, assassins creed flop on the wii. (not talking only game quality , which is very debatable, but level of hype, marketing, and seriousness, etc) the assumption that these games wont sell on wii is usually based on misinformed speculation or misinformed hearsay.

I agree mostly with what you're saying here. Any viable system's library is never so rigid as to only see a select few types of games and only those games. All these ofshoot games will accumulate over the Wii's lifetime and will make me buy one one day. What I'm saying is that that doesn't mean they are going to come any faster or that majority of the Wii's won't consist of the games the market has already proven it wants.

 

[Drensch]

And your contribution to this thread is?......

Revealing your identity as Jeff Bell.

 

[boiled goose]

If i had to guess, it'd probably be a Nintendo game which I already stated, sells like a motherfucker on the system. Come talk to me when you figure out why Sonic and the Secret Rings will be lucky to sell a tenth as much as Mario and Sonic at the Olympics. I'll tell you right now, the reason for the winner of that battle had nothing to do with what game was better. Nintendo games sell on a Nintendo systems. Wonders will never cease. :|

sonic and the secret rings is probably around 800k after the holiday...
mario and sonic is probably nearing 3 million

not exactly ten to one...

but anyways... which game got more hype? which game got a lot more marketing? (still being advertised) Which game was released during the holiday season? which game was released when wii had a much bigger install base?

Im not saying that the fact that mario is in the game and that it is a party game did not help its sales but things are not so simple... both games even have similar review scors so its not like Sonic atsr was a huge achievement comparably.

 

[AnimeTheme]

Um the Olympics was published by Sega, so the idea that their are a million ravenous ninfans waiting to gobble it up is a little hilarious.

Most gamers don't give a shit to who is publishing the game, but they can easily see there is Mario in this game.

Dragon Quest Swords is a SE game that will likely go well over a million worldwide when it releases next month.

We will see.

 

[boiled goose]

I agree mostly with what you're saying here. Any viable system's library is never so rigid as to only see a select few types of games and only those games. All these ofshoot games will accumulate over the Wii's lifetime and will make me buy one one day. What I'm saying is that that doesn't mean they are going to come any faster or that majority of the Wii's won't consist of the games the market has already proven it wants.

my point is that that shouldnt be the case (or that it would be better if it wouldnt be!)

 

[Weisheit]

I gotta say the crying and rationalization from ripdizz and oo Kosma oo, make it all worth the while. As if Wii success somehow makes their lives less worth living.

Software sales are the last bastion for these people, if Nintendo takes that from them what will they have?

 

[TheRipDizz]

Um the Olympics was published by Sega, so the idea that their are a million ravenous ninfans waiting to gobble it up is a little hilarious.

Especially compared to a game that came out 9 months ago and had a far lower userbase to work with.

And your guess would be wrong. Dragon Quest Swords is a SE game that will likely go well over a million worldwide when it releases next month.

I don't think most people who buy Mario and Sonic cares enough to see who actually made and published the game. I mean if they knew that much they probably wouldn't have even bought it in the first place. Just saying.

If it also isn't immediatly telling as to the motive behind the decision by Sega, on a game made and published BY Sega, to put Mario before Sonic in the title, then you are blinder than I thought previously, which would be pretty amazing.

 

[TheRipDizz]

Revealing your identity as Jeff Bell.

Zing! :lol

 

[TheRipDizz]

Software sales are the last bastion for these people, if Nintendo takes that from them what will they have?

Graphics. You're forgetting graphics. lol

 

[Luckyman]

To be fair, RE5 was announced for the PS3 and 360 before RE:UC and Resident Evil 4 Wii edition were released. I think they might have decided otherwise if they knew then what they know now.

This is exactly why Capcom and many other companies have invested in multiplatform framework on PCPS360. The biggest bets will continue to go there..

 

[GDGF]

This is exactly why Capcom and many other companies have invested in multiplatform framework on PCPS360. The biggest bets will continue to go there..

The reason why Capcom envested in multiplatform framework is because I posted that message?

 

[G4life98]

Plus you know, Nintendo markets the thing as ultra casual and family friendly.

Really the shift will never occur in the way some Wii owners want/think/hope/expect.

no , just no...from day one nintendo has marketed the wii in the same way they did the ds...a system built to make gaming more intuitive and lower the learning curve for the for the lapsed, non, and casual gamer...while keeping the core happy.

even the way 3rd parties are behaving/ making games for it is errily similar as well...
1. a glut of mini / non games
2. bad tacked on waggle controls (just think of how badly devs used the touchscreen in that first couple of years of the ds)
3. waiting for nintendo to prove "real" games can sell


eventually with the ds 3rd parties stop forcing touchscreen or trying to mimic nintendo and made the games they were best at...whether or not that will happen with the wii is still up for debate...

but this assertion that wii owners should not expect and want a diverse catalog of games and that third parties should keep thier most popular franchises off a system with a large and quickly expanding userbase because of lower graphical ability is just silly and non sensical.

just look at the money namco wasted on soul calibur legends, when it would have been far more cost effective to make a sc4 port with toned down graphics.

 

[vanguardian1]

just look at the money namco wasted on soul calibur legends, when it would have been far more cost effective to make a sc4 port with toned down graphics.

While I'd like that too, I also would have bought Legends day1 if it had turned out to be a decent game, but alas, this was not the case.

Spoiler

I still plan on getting it when it hits $20

Actually, this applies to One Piece for Wii as well.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I gotta say the crying and rationalization from ripdizz and oo Kosma oo, make it all worth the while. As if Wii success somehow makes their lives less worth living.

No,no, no, your avatar makes it worth it.

The better part of this situation is we won't have a repeat of the GCN. Devs abandoned that system early and gave more attention to the Xbox even though it barely outsold the GCN. Why? Sales. If Nintendo continues to outsell 360's software sales, and it's hardware momentum make that likely, than devs would just be foolish to ignore the undisputed leader.

This one piece of info is kinda huge. It's breaking down walls of crap about how games are not selling on the Wii. What's to make me think this is the only month where this happened this year? Not a lot. Plenty of assumptions about the Wii have been slaughtered over the past year and 2 months. All of a sudden, Wii has sold more based on a comparable time span vs the 360. Yeah, it had more units available, but devs don't really sit there and think about how many games are being sold PER UNIT. Just how many games total.

Then we have the Wii outselling the 360's software total in one month with less units. Then, there's the observation that Wii has just as many titles in the top 100 as the 360 and maybe more.

So, Wii is on a projectory to become the leader in hardware and software and there would be no obstacles except developer related. So, to the person claiming that it would never change from minigames and casual games, I can't see it staying like this for long. Publishers and devs will have to move some way towards the gamers, less Activision, EA and Ubisoft want another dev to gain a foothold in a large market they can't contend in.

BTW, the info that Wii software was > 360 software is so large, I wonder about Matt C. I know his history and would generally believe he is a fan of Nintendo, irregardless of who he is married to. But I don't know the implications of his marriage and how it relates to this piece of info. Maybe it would have come out any way and there is probably nothing to it but I can't help but wonder if his relationship to a PR EXECUTIVE FOR NINTENDO has any play.

At the end of the day, I don't think this one thing Matt C revealed will change anything significantly. It just rubs me a weird way that when NPD is cracking down on info being released, during a year where they held back so much, he released this info. Kinda changes a few perspectives on the Wii. Has it outsold 360 software before? It's had a stellar year, why not? Did it do it last month or october? Will it continue into January? What would that mean for everybody involved? Could 3rd parties go thru another year, knowing Wii owners are buying software like this?

So, why does Matt C rub me the wrong way on this? Well, the chick he is fucking just got a nice PR boost for her employer. Maybe she doesn't even think about that PR. And maybe this info will only reach a certain group of hardcore gamers. But it wouldn't be the first time that hardcore games provided the momentum to change the market. And maybe Nintendo doesn't even need it. It just colors my perspective on him. Credibility is based on his entire career. And this is somewhat of a negative for me.

My answer to the question, "Is he influenced by his marriage?" is I don't know.

 

[vanguardian1]

lots of text

Woah. Where's that article that was written when the wiimote was unveiled? Once again it bears it's eerie relevance.

 

[schuelma]

At the end of the day, I don't think this one thing Matt C revealed will change anything significantly. It just rubs me a weird way that when NPD is cracking down on info being released, during a year where they held back so much, he released this info. Kinda changes a few perspectives on the Wii. Has it outsold 360 software before? It's had a stellar year, why not? Did it do it last month or october? Will it continue into January? What would that mean for everybody involved? Could 3rd parties go thru another year, knowing Wii owners are buying software like this?

So, why does Matt C rub me the wrong way on this? Well, the chick he is fucking just got a nice PR boost for her employer. Maybe she doesn't even think about that PR. And maybe this info will only reach a certain group of hardcore gamers. But it wouldn't be the first time that hardcore games provided the momentum to change the market. And maybe Nintendo doesn't even need it. It just colors my perspective on him. Credibility is based on his entire career. And this is somewhat of a negative for me.

My answer to the question, "Is he influenced by his marriage?" is I don't know.

Umm, a couple of things. One, I believe his wife just works for a P.R agency that does work for Nintendo. It's not like she works at N HQ or anything.

Second, from the way the article was worded, I guarantee you Matt called up NPD and got permission to post the numbers. I really don't know what his wife has to do with anything.

 

[AnimeTheme]

Umm, a couple of things. One, I believe his wife just works for a P.R agency that does work for Nintendo. It's not like she works at N HQ or anything.

Second, from the way the article was worded, I guarantee you Matt called up NPD and got permission to post the numbers. I really don't know what his wife has to do with anything.

I am more curious to know why he bullshitted the 10:1 thing at the beginning.

 

[Jokeropia]

I was talking about "relative" to the case if Wii had no shortage.

The 360 still had a greater advantage in terms of existing owners vs. new owners and should've had an easier time getting a high December tie-ratio than Wii.

Ending the shortages would only have a notable effect on the tie-ratio in the exact month that they end, not in the long term.

My point is based on the fact that the degree of Wii shortage was NOT completely even throughout the last year, and obviously the most severe shortage occurred in Nov and Dec (as mentioned in my previous post), as we can clearly see this from the fact that boost of Wii in the holiday season was MUCH LOWER than one would expect judging from the sales of a normal month (Wii: Dec = Oct x 2.6, while PS2: Dec = Oct x 5.98, NDS: Dec = Oct x 5.39, and even XB360: Dec = Oct x 3.44).

So? Assuming there had never been any shortage to begin with, the existing userbase would've had 12 months in which to grow unrestrictedly to make up for the influx of new owners during month 13 and 14. (November + December 2007.)

The only thing that's relevant for the tie-ratio of any given month is the amount of existing vs. new owners, and the fact is that despite the hardware shortages for Wii in December, it had a larger ratio of new owners to existing owners than the 360 did and were thus at a disadvantage for getting as high monthly tie-ratio as possible. The fact that it still managed to get the highest is quite impressive.

 

[frankie_baby]

I am more curious to know why he bullshitted the 10:1 thing at the beginning.

its quite easy to turn 8:1 in to 10:1 first add wii sports so that makes it 9 then add links crossbow training (which for some reason is being counted as an accessory, strange when wii play is software oh well) so that makes it about 9 and a half which can then be rounded up to 10

job done

 

[Stumpokapow]

its quite easy to turn 8:1 in to 10:1 first add wii sports so that makes it 9 then add links crossbow training (which for some reason is being counted as an accessory, strange when wii play is software oh well) so that makes it about 9 and a half which can then be rounded up to 10

job done

It's not so strange.

When you buy Wii Play, you're buying a game that comes with a free Wiimote. When you buy Link's Crossbow Training, you're buying a Wii Zapper that comes with a free game. Ta-da!

 

[frankie_baby]

It's not so strange.

When you buy Wii Play, you're buying a game that comes with a free Wiimote. When you buy Link's Crossbow Training, you're buying a Wii Zapper that comes with a free game. Ta-da!

suppose you're right, it gets counted as a game over here tho(uk)

 

[Flakster99]

I gotta say the crying and rationalization from ripdizz and oo Kosma oo, make it all worth the while. As if Wii success somehow makes their lives less worth living.

A general response, but fits perfectly with your post.

Everyone rationalizes to a certain degree their preference at hand, sometimes out of jealousy, sometimes in jest, sometimes by not understanding the changes that are happening to which they have no power over they come off looking weak and misinformed, to understanding the situation at hand due to past and current experiences, from change is difficult to cope with to having a little fun rilling up a certain demographic. Etc. etc. etc., take your pick.

I happen to think it's cute when someone is that invested in a certain brand, style that they sound standoffish, excited against it's competition to the point they outdo said competitions' fan base's excitement. It usually goes back n' forth, but to this day I just don't understand the waste of time and energy that goes into certain over dramatic opposing views, but my perception and experience is certainly skewed.

When growing up, I owned an Atari 2600, an uncle whom I saw every weekend owned a PC, a Commodore 64, and the Intellivision. I then owned a NES, and a cousin of mine owned a Sega Master System. Moving up I then owned a SNES and a 3DO, while that same cousin owned a Turbo Graphics 16 and a Neo Geo, and several friends owned either a Genesis, a Sega CD or a SNES. And so on and so on.

We consciously made these purchases because we wanted to play everything. Factor in the arcades and the amount of new experiences to be had during the 80's-mid 90's, it felt pretty natural to us. I consider myself very lucky to have lived through said era, to have played and experienced through so many systems, games I did not own, therefor having a better understanding, the experience to keep an open mind and that change is usually inevitable.

About the topic at hand, it's inevitable, right now, as a growing market leader, the Wii is going to garner a majority of software sales, is going to appeal to the broadest of demographics. We're going on 30ish years of console experience, it has always been as such.

 

[AnimeTheme]

Ending the shortages would only have a notable effect on the tie-ratio in the exact month that they end, not in the long term.

Ending shortage won't probably have long term effect on tie ratio, yes. But in the short future, once the demand is met, and people who missed the chance can finally buy Wii (assuming most of them are still waiting), we can expect the growth rate of tie ratio to slow down at that time.

The only thing that's relevant for the tie-ratio of any given month is the amount of existing vs. new owners, and the fact is that despite the hardware shortages for Wii in December, it had a larger ratio of new owners to existing owners than the 360 did and were thus at a disadvantage for getting as high monthly tie-ratio as possible. The fact that it still managed to get the highest is quite impressive.

Yeah, the fact that "Wii SW > 360 SW" in Dec without even caring about the tie ratio is really meaning something. There is no doubt about that.

However, there were reports saying the severe shortage was causing some shops to "unofficially" force bundles, and some people even bought games without the hardware, which would all boost SW sales... but we may never know how true they are, or how exactly they affected the sales.

 

[Mgoblue201]

If i had to guess, it'd probably be a Nintendo game which I already stated, sells like a motherfucker on the system. Come talk to me when you figure out why Sonic and the Secret Rings will be lucky to sell a tenth as much as Mario and Sonic at the Olympics. I'll tell you right now, the reason for the winner of that battle had nothing to do with what game was better. Nintendo games sell on a Nintendo systems. Wonders will never cease. :|

Sonic Adventure 2 sold over 2 million on the GC alone, and that system probably had a much greater percentage of Nintendo fans than the Wii does. The only real way to ascertain true trends is to compare Secret Rings sales to Sonic 360 and PS3 sales (while taking into account that you're comparing it against a multi platform game) and then compare it to sales of past Sonics and how they were spread out across all systems and the environments they were released in. I haven't ever been able to find real info for that Sonic game. I don't believe it ever made it into the top ten. Secret Rings debuted at 11 on the NPD charts and has made appearances on the UK charts from time to time. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that it's due to deflated consumer confidence in Sonic platformers as a whole (most especially 3D ones) in the last two or three years.

Anyway, I see a lot of claims thrown around here. I don't think it's probable that on one hand casuals and nongamers care so little that they'll only buy one game a year and yet on the other hand care so much that they only buy Nintendo games. It's either one or the other. There might be a reason why they buy Nintendo games. For instance, Nintendo creates their strategy years in advance, and this disarms a lot of third parties, especially certain types that aren't completely into that strategy. But putting the name Nintendo on the box is not some magical formula.

I don't think there is a single rule for the Wii. The Wii audience will be so large that yes, games will sell, and it will be so diverse that yes, there will be a marketplace for third parties. The one thing going against the Wii is that it still does not have the environment that most gamers are used to. It won't be the all encompassing machine that the PS2 was. The market is too fractured right now. Too many different visions. The system won't have the greatest environment for all third parties and all gamers. That's not exactly a new thought, but so many people use that to try to take away from the powerhouse that the Wii currently is.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

They don't need an excuse. Only forums with dedicated people talking sales know the reality of the situation. People know about MS great attach rate because they pimp it all the time, an selectively cut information regarding Nintendo. However NoA doesn't do this. They never talk about software sales or attach ratios in their PR, and I oubt they are going to start.

The wii could end up tripling software sales over the 360, and I'm sure most people wouldn't know, find any excuse, or not admit it.

But don't developers read GAF?

 

[AnimeTheme]

About the topic at hand, it's inevitable, right now, as a growing market leader, the Wii is going to garner a majority of software sales, is going to appeal to the broadest of demographics. We're going on 30ish years of console experience, it has always been as such.

As Wii hardware sales finally outsells XB360, it's definitely inevitable that SW sales will also outsell XB360 at some point. I think no one would cast any doubt on this. The questions remain are how many of these Wii SW sales are Nintendo's first party games, how big the remaining market is for third parties, and among the third party sales, how many of them come from "casual" games and how many come from "core" games, and whether this core game sales is big enough to cause any serious competitions against PS360.

 

[Flakster99]

As Wii hardware sales finally outsells XB360, it's definitely inevitable that SW sales will also outsell XB360 at some point. I think no one would cast any doubt on this. The questions remain are how many of these Wii SW sales are Nintendo's first party games, how big the remaining market is for third parties, and among the third party sales, how many of them come from "casual" games and how many come from "core" games, and whether this core game sales is big enough to cause any serious competitions against PS360.

During the NES and SNES era, I and millions bought a lot of Nintendo developed software. During said respective era's, I and millions also bought plenty of 3rd party developed software.

It has now transcended to the Wii, and I and millions own a near equal amount of software between 1st/2nd party to 3rd party, and I would wager the ratio is leaning towards 3rd parties.

Where did Nintendo finish in it's previous two console generations.

Just how gun ho were 3rd parties in regards to the Wii during pre-launch and launch.

For the Wii, what is the ratio of quality vs. quantity, announced 3rd party titles in comparision to it's competition.

What is the ratio of quality and quantity in 1st/2nd party vs. 3rd party software on the 360, the PS3.

What is the ratio of sales of 1st/2nd party vs. 3rd party software on the 360, the PS3.

Nintendo have made tremendous strides in improving their gaming relevance, image and understanding the pulse of the industry. Yet, I feel they still have a long way to go with certain demographics, media types, overcoming previous mistakes which hurt mind share.

I truly believe the stigma of "3rd party software will (mostly) be ignored on a Nintendo console", "3rd parties simply cannot compete with Nintendo developed software and the mind share said software it holds on a Nintendo console" will persist throughout the generation. How can it not when Nintendo all but abandoned 3rd parties on the N64 for self profiteering, and failed to live up to the times/ standards of the (GameCube) era, again, with the choice of mini-dvd over dvd, and an image problem the size of the grand canyon.

Change takes time. God only knows what kind of damage the Sony Playstation brand, it's image and mindshare has incurred thus far during this era.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

As Wii hardware sales finally outsells XB360, it's definitely inevitable that SW sales will also outsell XB360 at some point. I think no one would cast any doubt on this. The questions remain are how many of these Wii SW sales are Nintendo's first party games, how big the remaining market is for third parties, and among the third party sales, how many of them come from "casual" games and how many come from "core" games, and whether this core game sales is big enough to cause any serious competitions against PS360.

From earlier in the thread:

Let's kick it off like this. Matt Cassamassina over at IGN has access to the full set of NPD data, not just the top tens, and he said something very interesting on their last podcast: Wii software actually outsold Xbox 360 software this month. I've contacted NPD for confirmation, but so far all they've told me is that on the list of Top 100 software titles for December, 20 Wii games charted, versus 18 Xbox 360 games.

Even more importantly, only 5 of those 20 games were from Nintendo.

Now since we don't know the names of said third party titles, we can't firmly assail your "how many of them come from "casual" games and how many come from "core" games" comment, (though we do know that titles like Umbrella Chronicles, RE4, and Guitar Hero are doing well) but this firmly kicks the hell out of your "how many of these Wii SW sales are Nintendo's first party games, how big the remaining market is for third parties" queries.

 

[Parl]

As Wii hardware sales finally outsells XB360, it's definitely inevitable that SW sales will also outsell XB360 at some point. I think no one would cast any doubt on this. The questions remain are how many of these Wii SW sales are Nintendo's first party games, how big the remaining market is for third parties, and among the third party sales, how many of them come from "casual" games and how many come from "core" games, and whether this core game sales is big enough to cause any serious competitions against PS360.

You say this as if third parties can't take market share away from Nintendo. That is exactly what has happened with DS when third parties made better games.

Isn't that like THQ saying "fuck, Microsoft, Activision and EA's combined efforts have given them most of the market. The remaining market isn't that big".

The fact that it's Nintendo on there means a lot, because they're pretty difficult to compete with them. But there's ONLY Nintendo who seems to be hard to compete with for software sales on Wii, atm. On 360, there's MS, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Capcom, R*, all making big budget games.

I mean, the third party crap on Wii doesn't sell (in general), but neither does the third party crap on PS3 or 360 (in general). Good, well marketed games sell well on 360 (Halo 3, COD4, etc) sell well, and good, well marketed games on Wii sell well (SMG, RE4 although is only a port, so it's only done a million +, etc). They've got to fit the market of course. On 360, that's mainly core stuff, on Wii it's core based stuff and more mainstream stuff, hence why it sells twice as fast as everything else.

If Wii was on par with 360 and was to remain on par with 360 in terms of userbase/software sales, then Wii wouldn't be as attractive to put big third party efforts on because there'd be more people on 360 willing to buy them, but Wii's dev costs would make it a viable option anyway. However, Wii's userbase is expanding rapidly still, and now Nintendo aren't stockpiling for Xmas, more of that 1.8 million per month can be sold, and Wii's core gamer user base will surpass that of 360's if things continue as they are (which, I guess, many believe will happen).

 

[speculawyer]

They buy a lot of crap, but at least they are buying new titles.

Licensed stuff and minigames are selling? Gamers games outside Nintendo bombing? Isn't this is a very bad message for publishers? :lol

Here is what I see as crap that is selling: Carnival Games, Game Party, Hannah Montana, High School Musical, Winter Sports, Mario & Sonic @ Olympics, etc.

There certainly is some good stuff selling: Super Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros, Guitar Hero, etc.

The publishers are going to realize that they could spend a ton of time & money for big sales or they could slap a good license or create a cheap mini-game collection for big sales. Most are gonna choose the latter since it is easier & more profitable. So it will probably remain Nintendo as the source of good games (plus ports of good games like Guitar Hero that work on the Wii).

 

[Deku]

There's a logical leap there somewhere which you're expertly navigated and ignored.

If this was true, no one would put any effort in games as crap do sell alot and at an even better ratio on platforms like the PS2.

It's a nice talking point to dwell on for a few months until things change new facts come to light, and we move to the next fictional debate. Remember the time when it was 'no 3rd party games was selling?'

 

[HK-47]

Here is what I see as crap that is selling: Carnival Games, Game Party, Hannah Montana, High School Musical, Winter Sports, Mario & Sonic @ Olympics, etc.

There certainly is some good stuff selling: Super Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros, Guitar Hero, etc.

The publishers are going to realize that they could spend a ton of time & money for big sales or they could slap a good license or create a cheap mini-game collection for big sales. Most are gonna choose the latter since it is easier & more profitable. So it will probably remain Nintendo as the source of good games (plus ports of good games like Guitar Hero that work on the Wii).

They did the same thing on PS2, found tons of success and it still got plenty of good games. Retreaded arguments ahoy

 

[Fuzzy]

They did the same thing on PS2, found tons of success and it still got plenty of good games. Retreaded arguments ahoy

I don't think people realize just how well the crap sold on the PS2 because they were too busy looking at the tons of good games.

 

[Shepherd]

Wii and 360 software selling monsters. PS3 not so much.

 

[papelnabangka]

One thing's for sure. The Wii will inevitably be the number seller of software in the next 6 months to a year as the base expands even more rapidly, not just here in NA but worldwide.

It's not even hypothetical anymore, it's almost a reality.

 

[HK-47]

I'm also confused by the people who keep bringing up Elebits as a title that was not successful. The game definitely made its money back and then some

 

[beef3483]

Graphics. You're forgetting graphics. lol

Bah, the PS2 did just fine without them.

 

[vanguardian1]

I'm also confused by the people who keep bringing up Elebits as a title that was not successful. The game definitely made its money back and then some

Remember that this board also considers Metroid Prime 3 a failure as well, even though it's done just fine. (what did Nintendo's report say? 1.1 million copies shipped as of yet?)