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Salman Rushdie stabbed in neck, rushed to hospital (Up: out of surgery, on ventilator))

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
That says more about (the minority of) muslim psycho dickheads than it does about him. Aside from John Lennon, are there are any famous cases of people being killed/injured in the West by Christian fanatics for insulting God/Jesus relatively recently? It just doesn't happen, right? Any muslim that supports the attack should be viewed with great suspicion (to make it fair, I would say the exact same thing of any Christian that supported John Lennon's murder).
Exactly.

Let's face it. Christians are just more chill. Look how often Christian views (cross toting priests, old man God in the clouds, some comedian dressing up like Jesus) are done in media. All the time. Nobody goes nuts.

I'd like to see one media studio do a skit or movie based on Muslim and Mohammed. It can even be a serious segment (not a comedy). But for maximum exposure, do both serious content and comedy bits.

It would be the apocalypse where every writer would go in hiding.
 

supernova8

Banned
Exactly.

Let's face it. Christians are just more chill. Look how often Christian views (cross toting priests, old man God in the clouds, some comedian dressing up like Jesus) are done in media. All the time. Nobody goes nuts.

I'd like to see one media studio do a skit or movie based on Muslim and Mohammed. It can even be a serious segment (not a comedy). But for maximum exposure, do both serious content and comedy bits.

It would be the apocalypse where every writer would go in hiding.
Yep and the police's position on it should be waaaay tougher. "He hurt my feelings so I shot him in the face" is bad enough but somehow to me "he hurt my imaginary god's feelings, so I shot him in the face" is that much worse and deserves an even harsher punishment.
 

belmarduk

Member
Exactly.

Let's face it. Christians are just more chill. Look how often Christian views (cross toting priests, old man God in the clouds, some comedian dressing up like Jesus) are done in media. All the time. Nobody goes nuts.

I'd like to see one media studio do a skit or movie based on Muslim and Mohammed. It can even be a serious segment (not a comedy). But for maximum exposure, do both serious content and comedy bits.

It would be the apocalypse where every writer would go in hiding.

Say, Did you hear about those Muslim men murdered in New Mexico? Turns out it WAS a hate crime.. motivated by Sunni hatred of Shia Muslims.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Yes, excommunication. Total exile from catholic services.

You know, that thing the pope levied against Pelosi and I think Biden over the abortion thing and guess what....no one gave a shit.

That's the Catholic faith. Nothing like that exists in other branches of Christianity. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

I'm pretty sure Pope Francis didn't drop the E bomb on Biden and Pelosi. I know a few bishops said it, but like you said it means nothing. It just means that somebody is excluded from the Catholic community. They can still go to Church and worship.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Say, Did you hear about those Muslim men murdered in New Mexico? Turns out it WAS a hate crime.. motivated by Sunni hatred of Shia Muslims.
And the way the legacy media and select politicians tried manipulating it to something else prior to that arrest. The state of our nation.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
That's the Catholic faith. Nothing like that exists in other branches of Christianity. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

I'm pretty sure Pope Francis didn't drop the E bomb on Biden and Pelosi. I know a few bishops said it, but like you said it means nothing. It just means that somebody is excluded from the Catholic community. They can still go to Church and worship.
Apparently it was her local Arch Bishop.

https://onlinechurchforchrist.com/2...y-excommunicated-by-san-francisco-archbishop/
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Pertinent point:


One of the most damaging thing activists have done over the last several years is completely muddy or distort the very basis of reality itself.

Love is hate, hate is love, non-violence is violence, real violence is activism.

None of this insanity would’ve ever had the chance to take hold if weak, cowardly people would have challenged these ideas years ago. But they never did and now they’ve taken hold to where people actually genuinely believe that the things JK Rowling days constitutes “hate.” If we can’t have objective reality, then baseless narratives can be started and spread about anything. That’s not good.
 

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
asshole pleads NOT GUILTY


Saying " youre next " after someone got killed or mortally wounded is good enough of a death threat to me only sycopath would say something like that

This guy are dangerous and must be put under surveilance
yup. JK Rowling has involved the police. Hope they do something about it... shouldn't be difficult to contact Twitter, get an IP, contact their ISP, and get the home address. Someone will be getting a knock on the door soon...
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
This is the result of years of Twitter+Resetera hate propaganda. It's literally nazism at this point.
Social media let weird people multiply. And free services make it even worse.

I remember old articles saying the purpose of Twitter was just so people can send each other quick updates what's going on to people you know when texting was still in its infancy. I dont think Twitter founders expected a decade or so later it would become a place where it's me, me, me self promotion, politics and people whipping out death threats. But it happened.

Case in point. Laundry pods.

Pretty sure Procter & Gamble made pods as a convenient way to do laundry. Drop a pod into the wash. What does social media do with it? Grown adults doing pod eating challenges. Social media has been a way to show how many dumbasses there really are on Earth.
 
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Jinzo Prime

Member
One of the most damaging thing activists have done over the last several years is completely muddy or distort the very basis of reality itself.

Love is hate, hate is love, non-violence is violence, real violence is activism.

None of this insanity would’ve ever had the chance to take hold if weak, cowardly people would have challenged these ideas years ago. But they never did and now they’ve taken hold to where people actually genuinely believe that the things JK Rowling days constitutes “hate.” If we can’t have objective reality, then baseless narratives can be started and spread about anything. That’s not good.
We live in a post-truth world. You could say, it's a brave new world...
 
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Airbus Jr

Banned
So i was reading about peoples comments on this matter and they were discusing and alot of them arguing about so called djins, this was referenced alot in the books

Are these what this salma rusdie guy refers as demonic entities? Cos alot of chapter identified this djin thing confirming they could be bad or good


 
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kittoo

Cretinously credulous
Anyone who compares Islam's fanaticism with any other existing well practiced religion and thinks they are equal is disingenuous or an idiot. The scale, reach, determination, rabidity, results and frequency is not same at all. Its clear as day that Islam is on another level altogether and no other religion is so scared of any criticism/discussion and followers of no other religion are so eager to kill at the slightest of 'blasphemies'.
 

Ionian

Member
Social media let weird people multiply. And free services make it even worse.

I remember old articles saying the purpose of Twitter was just so people can send each other quick updates what's going on to people you know when texting was still in its infancy. I dont think Twitter founders expected a decade or so later it would become a place where it's me, me, me self promotion, politics and people whipping out death threats. But it happened.

Case in point. Laundry pods.

Pretty sure Procter & Gamble made pods as a convenient way to do laundry. Drop a pod into the wash. What does social media do with it? Grown adults doing pod eating challenges. Social media has been a way to show how many dumbasses there really are on Earth.
Twitter was founded in 2006. Social media existed long before you were born. (the printed press, rumours etc).

Idiots will be idiots.
 

En Sama

Member
That's rough. These guys cant even wash their own dishes and he's asking them to put a target on their backs.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell

He highlights what I kind of touched on earlier. None of this insanity would be a thing right now if it had the pushback it deserved. The phrase "words are violence" should be openly mocked and ridiculed. The only reason it isn't is because cowards have allowed it to take root. Because they believe someone's identity is more important than their arguments. Kind of in the similar sense when in 2020 people were listing the demographics you "can't be racist towards" because "they have all the power." And institutional leaders just nodded their heads in agreement.

I don't think people realize the amount of societal damage this is going to cause in the long-term by just allowing these narratives to fester unchallenged. And I stress unchallenged, because I don't want these people silenced. If they were cancelled, I would have never heard of such ridiculousness to be able to mock it in the first place. It should be been allowed to be said and smart, rational people should have blown these crazy narratives to smithereens and we wouldn't be here in so many respects right now.

And I'm not saying this would have saved Rushdie from being attacked. You can't defend against random lone wolves who are out to do harm. But you can prevent an army of them from forming in droves by exposing awful ideas and showing how foolish they are. But they've done the opposite. They've given legitimacy to so much illogical nonsense that now good, caring people have bullseyes on their backs by thousands of people for no reason whatsoever. It's sick, and I'm so disappointed in our leaders. What cowards we've become as a society. It's truly shameful.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Anyone who compares Islam's fanaticism with any other existing well practiced religion and thinks they are equal is disingenuous or an idiot. The scale, reach, determination, rabidity, results and frequency is not same at all. Its clear as day that Islam is on another level altogether and no other religion is so scared of any criticism/discussion and followers of no other religion are so eager to kill at the slightest of 'blasphemies'.
f1d5596d-c401-4553-baca-4ca5431ca497_16x9_600x338.jpg
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
Dear JK,

Just log out of Twitter and delete the app. It's not about sending a message that 'they' have won. It's full of fucking idiots and is worse than the Mos Eisley canteen for scum and villainy. The prick that sent you the 'you're next' message is probably some pre-pubescent 13 year old wankstain.
 

HoodWinked

Member
I was at the grocery store today at the self checkout and there was someone ahead of me with the full burka just the eye slits. I know people like to criticize Christianity for the Crusades but religions have reformed to the point they are now. If this aspect of Islam is of the old ways why wouldn't this also apply to other aspects like the barbarism and violence of the old ways.
 

Toons

Member
He highlights what I kind of touched on earlier. None of this insanity would be a thing right now if it had the pushback it deserved. The phrase "words are violence" should be openly mocked and ridiculed.

Thats a little bit reductive. Words may not be violent and and of themselves, but many, many violent acts are spurred by harmful words. It always starts with words. And that can be seen from some of the examples being shown in this thread. The threats against Rowling are tangible and downplaying them as just words is how we got to situations like this, and like other acts of violence we've seen like the Jan 6 stuff.

Its a double edged sword, because we have free speech. Free speech allows threats like this to be sent into the atmosphere, and not violently resisted until it manifests as something tangible. Sure, twitter isn't a free speech platform, and can and should do something about this. But whats stopping these guys from just going elsewhere?

Cracking down on ideology and words itself is a slippery slope i dont think anyone wants to deal with. Moral of the story is, stay off Twitter and if you're going to piss off a lot of people, be aware of your surroundings. Folks are crazy.
 

Tams

Member
Exactly.

Let's face it. Christians are just more chill. Look how often Christian views (cross toting priests, old man God in the clouds, some comedian dressing up like Jesus) are done in media. All the time. Nobody goes nuts.

I'd like to see one media studio do a skit or movie based on Muslim and Mohammed. It can even be a serious segment (not a comedy). But for maximum exposure, do both serious content and comedy bits.

It would be the apocalypse where every writer would go in hiding.

Eh, there are still some Christian nutters who have done awful things in the name of their religion.

But yes, on the whole Christianity has become more relaxed. I think largely this is down to most Christian nations becoming incredibly wealthy and therefore need and desire to be very religious has died down. It's notable that Christianity's most brutal period was when Europe was in chaos and a mess of all sorts of kingdoms and princedoms. At the same time, Islam was arguably more peaceful then, and more prosperous.
 

Tams

Member
There's more to it than that.

Prostitute are given the names of the Prophet Muhammed's wives.

The Prophet Abraham who is highly revered in Islam, and is presented within an Islamic context in the book not a Judaic-Christian one, is directly insulted.

The angle Gabriel, again framed within the Islamic context and given his Islam name Gibreel, claims that God is "balding man wearing glasses that suffers from dandruff"

The supposed Prophet is Rushdie's book as he is dying he was a vision of a pagan Meccan deity, implying she is either real or that he believes her to be real.

A character named after the Prophet's wife, Aisha, claims she is receiving revelation from Gibreel (once more framed directly within the Islamic context) leads here people to drown in the seas based on this revelation.

There's some other stuff as well but I can't remember it all. Rushdie himself said he was aware prior to release that he'd cause a shitstorm with the book.

If any of that gives you cause to try and kill someone, then you are mentally ill and need to be sectioned.

Why is it that pretty much no other religion gets anywhere near as riled up about this stuff? Even Hinduism.
 

Amiga

Member
The bounty was raised in 2016
https://www.voanews.com/a/iran-salman-rushdie-bounty/3202964.html

maybe media should take the reports of Iranian bounties and threats of assassinations seriously instead of working overtime to downplay them.

also..


JK Rowling is getting threats that she's "next".

Religion of peace my arse. I can't imagine what she is going through. I'd be beefing up my home security (I'm sure already has security in place) and would be too terrified to go outside.

This is exploiting incidents like this to target over a billion people instead of the specific regime and affiliate groups that are directly and explicitly involved.

Muslims have spoken out about western harboring of extremist networks. but the warnings keep going unheeded.
 

Tams

Member
This is exploiting incidents like this to target over a billion people instead of the specific regime and affiliate groups that are directly and explicitly involved.

Muslims have spoken out about western harboring of extremist networks. but the warnings keep going unheeded.

Many of these extremists grow up and live in the very same communities as those Muslims though. What have most modest Muslims who do live in the same communities done to stop the radicalisation? And not just talking to people, that's not enough.

And if authorities go in and take out some of the worst, how often are they met with hostility from not only the local Muslims, but also the naïve social justice people?
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
When you have a stabbing there is no good comment to say, keep security on you in dangerous cities.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
Thats a little bit reductive. Words may not be violent and and of themselves, but many, many violent acts are spurred by harmful words. It always starts with words. And that can be seen from some of the examples being shown in this thread. The threats against Rowling are tangible and downplaying them as just words is how we got to situations like this, and like other acts of violence we've seen like the Jan 6 stuff.

Its a double edged sword, because we have free speech. Free speech allows threats like this to be sent into the atmosphere, and not violently resisted until it manifests as something tangible. Sure, twitter isn't a free speech platform, and can and should do something about this. But whats stopping these guys from just going elsewhere?

Cracking down on ideology and words itself is a slippery slope i dont think anyone wants to deal with. Moral of the story is, stay off Twitter and if you're going to piss off a lot of people, be aware of your surroundings. Folks are crazy.
And violent actions are also prevented by words.

Romance can lead to violence. Romance can also lead to love.

Money can lead to violence. Money can also lead to security and not having to stress constantly.

Many things can lead to violence if a mentally unstable person uses that entity as a means to motivate his/her own violent desires.

But they themselves are not violence. And that is an incredibly important distinction. You can't have a foundation in which to express or communicate if the act of expressing and communicating in and of itself is considered violence. That leads to a society that is fully untenable and unsustainable.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Wat you guys are talking about above comes down to the classic debate on whether:

People should be mature enough to hear words while not going ape shit

vs.

People should act how they want (possible violence), so everyone else should always be weary to watch their tongue

Think of it like two dudes bickering in a bar. One guy might be yapping about the other guy's wife or gf. Most of the time, nothing happens. But sometimes fists fly or a guy gets bonked on the head with a beer bottle.

Which situation is right? Cool heads? Or every person has the right to hit someone over pissy words?
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
I think it comes down more to the debate of what makes a better society: people having the freedom to express themselves in all forms and they or society as a whole dealing with the occasional consequences of those actions. Or people not having the freedom to express themselves in all forms, with fewer occasional consequences.

To me, it’s not even a debate, really. Far more is lost societally with the latter than the former. No society can function long-term or happily with people afraid to be themselves and speak about what they believe to be true. You’re losing a building block in which societies themselves are built: communication. And if you can’t express yourself and show the world who you are and what you believe and feel about things, then you can’t truly communicate at an acceptable level. The byproduct of that is some people are going to be hurt, but it’s an acceptable trade-off. As a wise man once said: life doesn’t have solutions only trade-offs.

And let’s face it, those who want to limit speech aren’t acting in good faith, anyway. Not most of them. This isn’t like people standing up to ban screaming fire in a crowded theater, or yelling “I have a bomb!” On a plane. The people pushing for it are not acting in good faith, so no amount of limiting of speech or ideas will ever be good enough. Think of where we are now compared to where we were just a handful of years ago. A handful of years ago a common debate would be something like is it ok for someone to have the freedom to wear a swastika patch on your clothing. Free speech absolutists May find the act vile, but would still defend their right to do it. Still, it’s an interesting debate. What are we debating today? If someone saying “pregnant women” is acceptable anymore.

If we’ve fallen that far that quickly, there’s no telling where these bad faith actors will take things next. It’s about control. Not decency. And allowing bad faith actors to dictate policy will never lead anywhere good.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I think it comes down more to the debate of what makes a better society: people having the freedom to express themselves in all forms and they or society as a whole dealing with the occasional consequences of those actions. Or people not having the freedom to express themselves in all forms, with fewer occasional consequences.

To me, it’s not even a debate, really. Far more is lost societally with the latter than the former. No society can function long-term or happily with people afraid to be themselves and speak about what they believe to be true. You’re losing a building block in which societies themselves are built: communication. And if you can’t express yourself and show the world who you are and what you believe and feel about things, then you can’t truly communicate at an acceptable level. The byproduct of that is some people are going to be hurt, but it’s an acceptable trade-off. As a wise man once said: life doesn’t have solutions only trade-offs.

And let’s face it, those who want to limit speech aren’t acting in good faith, anyway. Not most of them. This isn’t like people standing up to ban screaming fire in a crowded theater, or yelling “I have a bomb!” On a plane. The people pushing for it are not acting in good faith, so no amount of limiting of speech or ideas will ever be good enough. Think of where we are now compared to where we were just a handful of years ago. A handful of years ago a common debate would be something like is it ok for someone to have the freedom to wear a swastika patch on your clothing. Free speech absolutists May find the act vile, but would still defend their right to do it. Still, it’s an interesting debate. What are we debating today? If someone saying “pregnant women” is acceptable anymore.

If we’ve fallen that far that quickly, there’s no telling where these bad faith actors will take things next. It’s about control. Not decency. And allowing bad faith actors to dictate policy will never lead anywhere good.
And that in totality is another debate altogether. When it comes to sanitizing communication (words), at what point is it worth looking into and doing it, or whether to tell that niche group to piss off and dont act like whiners trying to get your way.

It's really no different than businesses analyzing feedback.

If the world has 8 billion people (or a company has 1 million customers) and 10% complain for changes, is that a reasonable threshold for action? Or is it 5%? 1%?

If only 48 people in the world are pushing for changes to the term "pregnant women", should the world bend? Or tell them to not waste people's time?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
That's because there's strength in numbers. When you got like a billion Muslims in the world with potentially violent outcomes, people would rather avoid the topic for sake of sales, profits and not pissing off people who next thing you know waits outside your house holding a kitchen knife.

Now if the Muslim population was only 5,000 people in some obscure middle of nowhere village and people heard of this, everyone would be making fun of it. There's not much harm to be done when there's only a small pocket of people to deal with vs. a billion.

(Edit. Google says there's 1.9 billion Muslims on the world. That's literally 25% of the Earth's population)
There definitely needs to be a reform to modernize Islam. You'd think a person born and raised in the states like this guy would be far less susceptible to terrorism, but the San Bernadino Shooter and the Orlando shooter were both either born or raised here from a very young age. The fact that they were radicalized to the point of violence is a problem that the muslim world needs to address. No one tried to kill Salman in the 80s, 90s, 2000s and 2010s. So clearly, things have gotten worse in the muslim world.

The problem is that there is no central authority like the Pope/Vatican in Islam, but I think America can secretly pressure Saudi Arabia into changing a few things. Reject all forms of violence, suicide bombings and issue a fucking fatwa on anyone who promotes or teaches violence. It was Saudi Arabia that promoted and exported this radical Wahabi version of Islam in the 70s and 80s so its time they are the ones who are made to take it all back. People will listen to them.
 
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