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Savage Empire a Graphic Novel (With Dinosaurs) by BISHOPTL that needs your support!

Stilton Disco

Stilton Disco

Member
bishoptl said:
High level? Absolutely, although some specific features I'm keeping close-mouthed on for now.

After sitting down a couple of years ago and doing my own post-mortem on T1/T2 and then breaking down the other dinosaur games released over the last 10 years or so, it was pretty obvious that the positioning of these apex predators was secondary to the game genre being established. Not necessarily a bad thing as many of the games were quite entertaining, but without making dinosaurs the central aspect as opposed to a gimmick, they weren't being given their due.

MP shooter...w/dinos. Survival horror...w/dinos. SP FPS...w/dinos.

You see where I'm going with this.

I'm more concerned with a dinosaur title that put the terror of being surrounded by predators who can easily kill you, along with item/inventory management. Dino Crisis was great at keeping you on your toes, juggling health vs ammo (although not the hardcore extent I'd prefer, but anyways), bleeding out...

Addition of destructible environments so the dinosaurs can actually smash through windows and doors, necessitating the use of barricades. Someone suggested that you feel like you're constantly playing that raptor chase with the kids at the end of Jurassic Park. Raptors that actually hunt using pack AI (we were working heavily on this in T2) and attempt to outsmart you. The player should be absolutely terrified of them - wandering around a jungle environment, hearing the rustles in the grass as unseen creatures dash around me, and that slow groin-tightening realization that you are the one being hunted. Using any environmental element to help you escape.

Opportunities for exploration as well as interaction, Endless Ocean style. I've got more thoughts on this.
Click to expand...

Well that all sounds bloody brilliant!

I'll definitely be backing this project, LOVE pretty much anything to do with dinosaurs.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
I knew Bish worked in the industry, but I was never able to figure out on what games. Turok though?
Kp0tWtO.gif


That'll get my head turning. So there.
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
All I know is I want to see someone get devoured by a flock of natures X-Wing, aka the Microraptor.

pSIHl7w.jpg
Click to expand...

Imagine: These mini Raptors are chasing someone like Compy's from The Lost World.. so the person climbs a tree/tower/something which they perceive as being safe. Suddenly these little bastards start climbing and flying and gliding to finish the job- they're the perfect creepy yet beautiful killer.

1d7qLw3.jpg
Click to expand...

I have been dying to see these things represented in fiction for years, they're just such bizarre animals.
 
D

Drencrom

Member
bishoptl said:
High level? Absolutely, although some specific features I'm keeping close-mouthed on for now.

After sitting down a couple of years ago and doing my own post-mortem on T1/T2 and then breaking down the other dinosaur games released over the last 10 years or so, it was pretty obvious that the positioning of these apex predators was secondary to the game genre being established. Not necessarily a bad thing as many of the games were quite entertaining, but without making dinosaurs the central aspect as opposed to a gimmick, they weren't being given their due.

MP shooter...w/dinos. Survival horror...w/dinos. SP FPS...w/dinos.

You see where I'm going with this.

I'm more concerned with a dinosaur title that put the terror of being surrounded by predators who can easily kill you, along with item/inventory management. Dino Crisis was great at keeping you on your toes, juggling health vs ammo (although not the hardcore extent I'd prefer, but anyways), bleeding out...

Addition of destructible environments so the dinosaurs can actually smash through windows and doors, necessitating the use of barricades. Someone suggested that you feel like you're constantly playing that raptor chase with the kids at the end of Jurassic Park. Raptors that actually hunt using pack AI (we were working heavily on this in T2) and attempt to outsmart you. The player should be absolutely terrified of them - wandering around a jungle environment, hearing the rustles in the grass as unseen creatures dash around me, and that slow groin-tightening realization that you are the one being hunted. Using any environmental element to help you escape.

Opportunities for exploration as well as interaction, Endless Ocean style. I've got more thoughts on this.
Click to expand...

Great breakdown, you definitely got the right idea how a dinosaur focused game should be like.

Looking forward to the kickstarter!
 
C

Cow Mengde

Banned
That artwork... Just... Yikes. I'm sorry but that dinosaur looks terrible. The non-existent neck. The awkward placement of the shoulders. It's an anatomical nightmare.

I'll support it and hope it's because the art is early. The story does sound very interesting.
 
S

shandy706

Member
bishoptl said:
High level? Absolutely, although some specific features I'm keeping close-mouthed on for now.

After sitting down a couple of years ago and doing my own post-mortem on T1/T2 and then breaking down the other dinosaur games released over the last 10 years or so, it was pretty obvious that the positioning of these apex predators was secondary to the game genre being established. Not necessarily a bad thing as many of the games were quite entertaining, but without making dinosaurs the central aspect as opposed to a gimmick, they weren't being given their due.

MP shooter...w/dinos. Survival horror...w/dinos. SP FPS...w/dinos.

You see where I'm going with this.

(snip)

.
Click to expand...

A dinosaur survival game in the vein of State of Decay is what I envision as an amazing dino game.

Base building, defense, open world looting and survival, hunting/fishing/gathering of smaller species and plants, a constant fear of being torn limb from limb while trying to fight for resources.

Edit** Put in some thunderclap support. :)
 
8

8 X 11 Printer Paper

Member
So this, Bard 4 and The Lost Pisces will all start on Kickstarter on the same day...I guess I'll delay my Kickstarer June Picks Article to the 5th so I can include this and Bard 4.
 
P

PaulExcellent

Member
bishoptl said:
Turok
World Gone Sour
Company of Heroes
Dawn of War series
Mafia II
The Outfit
NHL series
Need For Speed
NBA Live series

and a bunch more.
Click to expand...
Oh, man! What did you do for Mafia II?
Also, eff it. I'm in for dinosaur interaction.
You mentioned Endless Ocean and that's just excellent. The rest of the project is just an extra for me. lol
 
B

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
FF Seraphim said:
Two of my favorite series right there!
Can you give any hints on what may be some pledge rewards?
Click to expand...
I'm going to keep it fairly simple - copies of the prologue and full comic, variant art and giclee print rewards, and a few special things that are seriously one-of-a-kind elements. I'll provide more info over the next few days.
 
M

Madness

Member
I know some people were turned off buying the retail game after playing the demo of Turok (I still liked it), in hindsight, would you still want to do an official demo release or would have dedicated the time/resources elsewhere and preferred to use marketing to get the game better exposure? In the end, was the demo beneficial for you guys or a hindrance.

And good luck with this project Bish. Please remember the Canadian dollar is shit and price better for your peeps.
 
C

Cow Mengde

Banned
Madness said:
I know some people were turned off buying the retail game after playing the demo of Turok (I still liked it), in hindsight, would you still want to do an official demo release or would have dedicated the time/resources elsewhere and preferred to use marketing to get the game better exposure? In the end, was the demo beneficial for you guys or a hindrance.

And good luck with this project Bish. Please remember the Canadian dollar is shit and price better for your peeps.
Click to expand...

I'm more interested in the game, but the story has potential to be something fun and exciting.

Turok was ok, but the demo didn't do it any favors.

I own the PC version and it's even worse. It's not supported on Windows 7, so I have a useless game now.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
bishoptl said:
High level? Absolutely, although some specific features I'm keeping close-mouthed on for now.

After sitting down a couple of years ago and doing my own post-mortem on T1/T2 and then breaking down the other dinosaur games released over the last 10 years or so, it was pretty obvious that the positioning of these apex predators was secondary to the game genre being established. Not necessarily a bad thing as many of the games were quite entertaining, but without making dinosaurs the central aspect as opposed to a gimmick, they weren't being given their due.

MP shooter...w/dinos. Survival horror...w/dinos. SP FPS...w/dinos.

You see where I'm going with this.

I'm more concerned with a dinosaur title that put the terror of being surrounded by predators who can easily kill you, along with item/inventory management. Dino Crisis was great at keeping you on your toes, juggling health vs ammo (although not the hardcore extent I'd prefer, but anyways), bleeding out...

Addition of destructible environments so the dinosaurs can actually smash through windows and doors, necessitating the use of barricades. Someone suggested that you feel like you're constantly playing that raptor chase with the kids at the end of Jurassic Park. Raptors that actually hunt using pack AI (we were working heavily on this in T2) and attempt to outsmart you. The player should be absolutely terrified of them - wandering around a jungle environment, hearing the rustles in the grass as unseen creatures dash around me, and that slow groin-tightening realization that you are the one being hunted. Using any environmental element to help you escape.

Opportunities for exploration as well as interaction, Endless Ocean style. I've got more thoughts on this.
Click to expand...

Fucking finally someone gets it.

Stomping Land sounded fun and looked fun, but it was another "craft shit" game. It should have been more about killing the small dinosaurs and hiding from the big ones until you were ready to attempt an attack. It needs to be scary. It needs to be huge and beautiful and majestic and scary.
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Ok, so here's a question pertaining to the graphic novel and game.. But I suppose it mainly applies to the game.

There is a lot of talk about dinosaurs as a threat, which of course makes fiction interesting. But will there be ways to integrate the animal like nature of some species, where they don't live only to kill? I would love to see animals such a Ceratopsians graze peacefully when unprovoked.. which of course would be tremendously dangerous, like an up-armored Rhino once threatened.

Also, carnivorous animals don't live to kill, so in some instances it would be pretty cool to see them doing their thing if they're well fed and you aren't threatening their nest. Think Lions just chilling in the Savannah- they aren't hunting so they really don't mind as long as you don't get too close.

I just think it would provide a cool dynamic illustrating a more complex biological ecosystem, while offering a risk vs reward structure. Are they a threat? Should you provoke and try to eliminate them, or should you move on? And what will the consequences be?
 
C

Cow Mengde

Banned
Demoncarnotaur said:
Ok, so here's a question pertaining to the graphic novel and game.. But I suppose it mainly applies to the game.

There is a lot of talk about dinosaurs as a threat, which of course makes fiction interesting. But will there be ways to integrate the animal like nature of some species, where they don't live only to kill? I would love to see animals such a Ceratopsians graze peacefully when unprovoked.. which of course would be tremendously dangerous, like an up-armored Rhino once threatened.

Also, carnivorous animals don't live to kill, so in some instances it would be pretty cool to see them doing their thing if they're well fed and you aren't threatening their nest. Think Lions just chilling in the Savannah- they aren't hunting so they really don't mind as long as you don't get too close.

I just think it would provide a cool dynamic illustrating a more complex biological ecosystem, while offering a risk vs reward structure. Are they a threat? Should you provoke and try to eliminate them, or should you move on? And what will the consequences be?
Click to expand...

This.

Hippos kill more people than sharks.
 
B

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
Demoncarnotaur said:
Ok, so here's a question pertaining to the graphic novel and game.. But I suppose it mainly applies to the game.

There is a lot of talk about dinosaurs as a threat, which of course makes fiction interesting. But will there be ways to integrate the animal like nature of some species, where they don't live only to kill? I would love to see animals such a Ceratopsians graze peacefully when unprovoked.. which of course would be tremendously dangerous, like an up-armored Rhino once threatened.

Also, carnivorous animals don't live to kill, so in some instances it would be pretty cool to see them doing their thing if they're well fed and you aren't threatening their nest. Think Lions just chilling in the Savannah- they aren't hunting so they really don't mind as long as you don't get too close.

I just think it would provide a cool dynamic illustrating a more complex biological ecosystem, while offering a risk vs reward structure. Are they a threat? Should you provoke and try to eliminate them, or should you move on? And what will the consequences be?
Click to expand...

Cow Mengde said:
This.

Hippos kill more people than sharks.
Click to expand...

You're both firmly aligned with the groundwork that was being done on creature AI, beyond the rudimentary version introduced in T1. An approximation of a working ecosystem, with pawns (what I'll refer to them as for now) motivated typical elements such as
  • hunger
  • team proximity (packs)
  • threat proximity
  • injuries
Far and beyond the typical see > chase > attack.

Figuring out how these stack together and feed into each other - and then visual demonstrating those stages in a clear manner - was one of the design tasks our team was tackling. What you're asking for is something that I wholeheartedly believe in. Implementing responsive AI also adds to replayability which is another central pillar of design for me.

This is where a more exploratory approach can pay dividends. There's little room for AI to flourish in a more linear gameplay type, but a wider, more open world approach now provides a sandbox where your character has the opportunity to create meaningful impact on the world beyond killing something.

Imagine your character is injured and bleeding, being tracked. You move slowly towards a drinking pond where herbivores are minding their business - to fulfill their need for water, not a pre-scripted event - doing your utmost not to spook them. Raptors burst through the trees and a stampede is triggered, damaging the pack and acting as a blind for your to dip underwater to lose the scent. You reappear on the other side of the water, only to realize that you're covered in leeches...

There was a rudimentary version of this in T1, where you could use the flare from the shotgun to drive dinosaur attention towards human enemies and then let them take each other out while you took advantage of the situation, either by sneaking past or picking off stragglers. This would be the next evolutionary step.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
you know I'm all in to help bish out, plus it seems pretty cool

edit: and that dinosaur concept bish is talking about is DREAM TERRITORY. Make it happen by Gods
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
bishoptl said:
You're both firmly aligned with the groundwork that was being done on creature AI, beyond the rudimentary version introduced in T1. An approximation of a working ecosystem, with pawns (what I'll refer to them as for now) motivated typical elements such as
  • hunger
  • team proximity (packs)
  • threat proximity
  • injuries
Far and beyond the typical see > chase > attack.

Figuring out how these stack together and feed into each other - and then visual demonstrating those stages in a clear manner - was one of the design tasks our team was tackling. What you're asking for is something that I wholeheartedly believe in. Implementing responsive AI also adds to replayability which is another central pillar of design for me.

This is where a more exploratory approach can pay dividends. There's little room for AI to flourish in a more linear gameplay type, but a wider, more open world approach now provides a sandbox where your character has the opportunity to create meaningful impact on the world beyond killing something.

Imagine your character is injured and bleeding, being tracked. You move slowly towards a drinking pond where herbivores are minding their business - to fulfill their need for water, not a pre-scripted event - doing your utmost not to spook them. Raptors burst through the trees and a stampede is triggered, damaging the pack and acting as a blind for your to dip underwater to lose the scent. You reappear on the other side of the water, only to realize that you're covered in leeches...

There was a rudimentary version of this in T1, where you could use the flare from the shotgun to drive dinosaur attention towards human enemies and then let them take each other out while you took advantage of the situation, either by sneaking past or picking off stragglers. This would be the next evolutionary step.
Click to expand...

If this can actually be realized into a game it would be fucking phenomenal. I love the sandbox approach with AI, creating unique scenarios that would really play well into creative, fun and tense gameplay.

I also love that not only can the environment aid you (masking the scent) but it can also harm you in surprising ways (leaches). It really turns the environment from a sterile playspace into a living, breathing player in the games ecosystem.

This needs to happen.
 
O

Obliterator

Member
bishoptl said:
You're both firmly aligned with the groundwork that was being done on creature AI, beyond the rudimentary version introduced in T1. An approximation of a working ecosystem, with pawns (what I'll refer to them as for now) motivated typical elements such as
  • hunger
  • team proximity (packs)
  • threat proximity
  • injuries
Far and beyond the typical see > chase > attack.

Figuring out how these stack together and feed into each other - and then visual demonstrating those stages in a clear manner - was one of the design tasks our team was tackling. What you're asking for is something that I wholeheartedly believe in. Implementing responsive AI also adds to replayability which is another central pillar of design for me.

This is where a more exploratory approach can pay dividends. There's little room for AI to flourish in a more linear gameplay type, but a wider, more open world approach now provides a sandbox where your character has the opportunity to create meaningful impact on the world beyond killing something.

Imagine your character is injured and bleeding, being tracked. You move slowly towards a drinking pond where herbivores are minding their business - to fulfill their need for water, not a pre-scripted event - doing your utmost not to spook them. Raptors burst through the trees and a stampede is triggered, damaging the pack and acting as a blind for your to dip underwater to lose the scent. You reappear on the other side of the water, only to realize that you're covered in leeches...

There was a rudimentary version of this in T1, where you could use the flare from the shotgun to drive dinosaur attention towards human enemies and then let them take each other out while you took advantage of the situation, either by sneaking past or picking off stragglers. This would be the next evolutionary step.
Click to expand...

Dude I will back the the shit out of this if you can make it happen

This is like amazing
 
A

AngerdX

Member
Thunderclapped and will so back this, we need more dinos and the game talk here needs to happen like yesterday. :)
 
B

BPoole

Member
What kind of game would this turn into if it is successful? I'm not really into graphic novels, but I am willing to contribute if the premise of the future game is interesting.

Since the game would be based on the comic, I think I Tell Tale narrative driven game would be interesting while still being able to maintain the artistic style of the graphical novel.
 
B

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
Awesome stuff, I'll kickstart the shit out of this once I get paid :)

Didn't you use to work for Monolith as well Bish ? I could have sworn you mentioned that before but maybe I'm wrong.
 
B

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
BPoole said:
What kind of game would this turn into if it is successful? I'm not really into graphic novels, but I am willing to contribute if the premise of the future game is interesting.

Since the game would be based on the comic, I think I Tell Tale narrative driven game would be interesting while still being able to maintain the artistic style of the graphical novel.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't want to try and sell this as a TT narrative driven title ("Allosaurus will remember that") when a key driver for me personally is an approximation of real AI. Down the road or as a separate SKU a la Tales from the Borderlands? Sure - but my focus is telling the story here in the graphic novel and allowing the player to tell their own story through non-scripted, open world events with AI interactions.

The game you're describing, while laudable, is a tertiary goal to my main priority - the comic and the AI-driven title. Just being honest. I don't want to try and trick anyone into backing something they're not aligned with, but there's room for growth.

Big_Al said:
Awesome stuff, I'll kickstart the shit out of this once I get paid :)

Didn't you use to work for Monolith as well Bish ? I could have sworn you mentioned that before but maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the promise, and no, I've never been fortunate to work at Monolith. Great team though, and I do know a person or two down there :)
Thanks
 
B

Brofield

Member
Thunderclapped with a #NeoGAF thrown in for good measure. I don't see how any GAFfer wouldn't want to support someone so well known in the community.

I guess the game is a bit too far out for this question, but what systems do you plan to hit? NX? Xbox Two? Playstation 5? PC 2?
 
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