• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Shop that sold gun to Sandy Hook shooter's mother loses firearms license

Status
Not open for further replies.

So... pull the license, apparently not provide a reason to, wait until the appeal window expires, then state the decision is now final. If that's how it truly went down, I hope the ATF felt it was worth it because it certainly does not encourage a meaningful discussion on the gun issue in the US.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Um. So it actually was revoked over 3 months ago and they never filed an appeal at all.

I guess my remaining question is along the lines of "why is this news today?" What happened? It's a headline everywhere. I do not understand what event occurred that caused people to write about this now. Did the revocation not go into effect until today?
wait until the appeal window expires
???

How do you do that exactly?
 

syllogism

Member
Pretty strange then how the wife believes that they are still trying to appeal, perhaps she should have a chat with her husband. Shockingly LaGuercia couldn't be reached for a comment.
 

commedieu

Banned
Police: Stolen Guns Traced To Store
June 15, 2007 By DAVID OWENS, Courant Staff Writer
A Somers man arrested on 28 counts of first-degree larceny and firearm theft pilfered those weapons from a gun shop where he would occasionally help out, according to the search warrant investigators drafted before entering Brian H. McClelland's home.

McClelland, 63, of 159 Mountain View Road, was released on $1 million bail and is due in Superior Court in Rockville on June 26 for arraignment.

State police began looking at McClelland in early May after a trooper in the department's special licenses and firearms unit noticed that McClelland "had been purchasing an exorbitant number of guns in the [past] 17 months," the affidavit accompanying the search warrant says. From Dec. 28, 2005, to May 31, 2007, McClelland had bought 537 guns from the same gun shop, Riverview Sales of East Windsor. Of those guns, 281 were handguns and 256 were long guns. All were purchased legally, police said, and none had been reported stolen.

Still, the sheer volume of gun purchases raised eyebrows with state police.

In early June, the owner of Riverview Sales, David E. Laguercia, contacted the federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives to report that his business was missing 33 guns and that he had recorded video of a store assistant stealing at least two guns, as well as some other items. That assistant, according to the warrant, was McClelland.

Laguercia said Thursday that McClelland had become a good customer of Riverview Sales, even a friend.

"He seemed to be a down-to-earth kind of guy," Laguercia said. McClelland was a high-volume buyer, Laguercia said, and was purchasing the guns for his collection. "He didn't have any specific interest," Laguercia said. "He was a collector, and he was enhancing his collection. Naturally, every once in a while a company would come out with a limited production run and he'd want one of them."

Laguercia said he noticed shortly after moving his store from Enfield to East Windsor that the inventory in some areas seemed "light or missing," according to the affidavit.

Laguercia said he began to suspect McClelland was stealing items but lacked proof. He checked the store's security videos and saw McClelland take a handgun and walk out of the store, then return empty-handed. The incident occurred while McClelland was alone in the store, according to the warrant.

At that point, Laguercia closed the store for a few days to inventory its stock. He told McClelland he was closing the store so he could visit and care for a sick parent.

During that inventory, Laguercia determined that 33 guns - 32 hand guns and a rifle - were missing. That's when he contacted federal authorities, according to the affidavit.

It was those 33 guns police were looking for when they searched McClelland's home June 8 and 9. Police say 28 stolen weapons were among the 601 guns seized at his house. There is no suggestion in the arrest warrant affidavit that the other guns in McClelland's collection were stolen.

McClelland, who could not be reached for comment, appeared to be in solid financial shape, Laguercia said. Laguercia said he couldn't understand why McClelland would steal the guns.

"That's the question everybody asks," Laguercia said. "He didn't need money. He had the means."

Old Laguercia related case.
 
Um. So it actually was revoked over 3 months ago and they never filed an appeal at all.

I guess my remaining question is along the lines of "why is this news today?" What happened? It's a headline everywhere. I do not understand what event occurred that caused people to write about this now. Did the revocation not go into effect until today?

The thing is if there wasn't a reason provided, what would they be appealing? On what grounds? That's the big question here.

And I don't know! I'm not saying I do. In fact I've been very careful in tempering my statements precisely because I don't know! Just asking questions.
 
meh, selling murder tools...IMO if your product was used to murder innocents you should probably lose your license. A risk all shops in the industry should have to take.
That makes no sense.

A gun I sold legally 2 minutes ago or 20 years ago ends up killing someone so I'm at fault?
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
The thing is if there wasn't a reason provided, what would they be appealing? On what grounds? That's the big question here.
But the thing is that the ATF are governed by Title 27 in this instance and were required by law to provide a written Notice of Revocation with a reason. If they didn't then they could have probably appealed on that basis (that they weren't provided with a reason). If they did, they could have appealed on the applicable legal grounds.

I don't think this is going to be a satisfying end for anyone. I don't think firearms license revocations are made public record.

edit: I am so freaking bewildered as to why this is news this afternoon.

The shooting was on December 14th. The license was revoked on Dec. 20th. The window for filing an appeal expired on February 18th. By all rights the story ended there, on February 18th. It is April 5th, and the owners were sought for comment on the license revocation today. What... what.
 
Good. Now the rest

COME AND TAKE IT

9NUDqvu.jpg
 

syllogism

Member
Apparently they are so incompetent that even after that 2007 incident involving 33 (!!!) missing guns they did not improve their inventory accounting process, but again in June 2011 had 11 guns stolen and only noticed when the person was caught in act.

http://southwindsor.patch.com/group...or-man-stole-weapons-because-he-was5939a88dae

But I'm sure the wife really doesn't have any clue as to why they could have possibly lost their license. If you can't keep track of your inventory, you shouldn't have a license.
 
But the thing is that the ATF are governed by Title 27 in this instance and were required by law to provide a written Notice of Revocation with a reason. If they didn't then they could have probably appealed on that basis (that they weren't provided with a reason). If they did, they could have appealed on the applicable legal grounds.

I don't think this is going to be a satisfying end for anyone. I don't think firearms license revocations are made public record.

edit: I am so freaking bewildered as to why this is news this afternoon.

The shooting was on December 14th. The license was revoked on Dec. 20th. The window for filing an appeal expired on February 18th. By all rights the story ended there, on February 18th. It is April 5th, and the owners were sought for comment on the license revocation today. What... what.

I mean, they could have "preserved the record" and they probably should have consulted a lawyer for that for sure. But still that appeal, (don't know if it would have been valid) would have appealed something procedural and not necessarily the reason for the initial revocation. Although I guess appeals are best when something procedural was potentially defective.

Oh well, knowing that, yeah they should have known to file even being potentially in the dark.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Growing up I was taught to lay flat against the ground whenever a gunshot went off. I have no fucks to give over this store losing its license.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
How about prosecute Nancy instead for not properly securing her firearm when she knows her batshit insane son lives in the house. Not that hard to do.
 
meh, selling murder tools...IMO if your product was used to murder innocents you should probably lose your license. A risk all shops in the industry should have to take.
Are you fucking serious? So all shops that sell guns that are eventually used to murder people should all close shop then? Get outta here!
 

Dram

Member
Shop that sold guns to Nancy Lanza had 500 violations
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/riverview-gun-sales-violations_n_3060288.html
A document prepared by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives explains why Riverview Gun Sales in East Windsor lost its license. Some of the violations included letting a felon buy ammunition and selling firearms without completing background checks. The document was obtained Wednesday by WFSB-TV and the Journal News in New York.

The documents accuse Riverview of committing more than 500 violations and say the licensee received 11 instances of instruction from ATF dating back to 2004 on how to comply with federal firearms laws and regulations. It says "the large number of repeat violations demonstrates that the licensee and his employees purposely disregarded and/or were plainly indifferent to their CGA obligations," referring to the Gun Control Act.

More than 300 violations were for failing to record information completely, accurately and in a timely manner, according to the document. It also cited violations for failing to record the date the background system was contacted, the response by the system or the identification number provided by the system before a firearm transfer.

ATF officials said federal firearms license holders receive a copy of the violations report before a revocation is initiated and are made aware of the violations again during the hearing process. They have 60 days to appeal and in this case they chose not to do so, officials said.
 

Ominym

Banned
I'm all for more gun control, but I honestly don't feel this is right. I mean, if the owner could clearly tell something was wrong with the guy, or he didn't take the correct steps, etc? Sure, I get that. But if he was doing everything to the extent that he was legally required? Then I don't see how he's required to pay retribution for something he didn't know he was doing.

EDIT:

Two posts above yours

Mannnn why you got to make me look all stupid and stuff?
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
I'm all for more gun control, but I honestly don't feel this is right. I mean, if the owner could clearly tell something was wrong with the guy, or he didn't take the correct steps, etc? Sure, I get that. But if he was doing everything to the extent that he was legally required? Then I don't see how he's required to pay retribution for something he didn't know he was doing.
Two posts above yours
 

SUPREME1

Banned
Lmao, all the zomg this is 'Murica and these people are being made an example because of Sandy Hook rage rage rage we not gonna take this no more type posts on the first page look pretty silly right about now.


They were clearly incompetent and deserved to have their license revoked.
 

besada

Banned
Well, that turned out exactly as expected. Bad journalism, leaping to assumptions, righteous indignation, and then the facts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom