I don't think Gran Turismo is popular here like it is in Europe so I forgot about that one.
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Should Naughty Dog buy themselves back from Sony?
- Thread starter Endo Punk
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I don't think Gran Turismo is popular here like it is in Europe so I forgot about that one.
Flatline
Banned
almost and impossible in the same sentence
I don't need to read through this entire thread to see the arguements. I've seen it for years. People thought the same thing for years with Bungie and MS. The fanboys didn't want to hear it...and sure enough, guys like me sitting in the minority were right.
People who knew what was going on didn't, Bungie was already frustrated with Microsoft's IP milking so either they'd be a mass exodus like it happened with Rare and Lionhead or they'd buy themselves out. Sony doesn't have the same problem because they're not being assholes to their devs. In fact they're being so nice that devs like Quactic Dream actually want to be bought.
..and that's one of the many reasons already explained in the thread you forgot to read before professing with confidence that anyone who believes that ND won't leave is a Sony fanboy.
I'm playing it on my preferred console
I just wanna share the love is all. But if ND and Sony are essentially one and the same as the posts in this thread suggests then yeah I guess it's asking the impossible.SwiftDeath
Member
One that can still sell the occasional console though.......
Don't agree with it but not entirely sure how the market would work without them
Biggest way to differentiate consoles/PC imo
To clarify I mean its the biggest way each console and PC can differentiate itself from the others
By what exclusive games they each have etc.
Flatline
Banned
Console exclusivity in the age where consoles are becoming more and more like PCs is one of the most important features that differentiate them from PCs and each other. You might not like it but it's more important now than before and it's certainly not on life support.
SolidSnakex
Member
From the players perspective you should take into account the benefits of a developer that only has to worry about how one version of their game plays. All time and resources can be devoting to that version instead of having to spread it across multiple platforms.
PlanetSmasher
Banned
A better game that's only on one system is always better than a worse game that's available to more people.
Retro lost a ton of people after Metroid Prime 3. If Retro wasn't making DKC, who would? Not Rare that's for sure.
DKCR and Tropical Freeze are blessings to people who suffered the Rareware buyout. The team that did Jungle Beat is busy with Mario now anyway, and if they went back to DK that's like telling somebody Team Ninja should go back to Metroid.
it's the main reason why we have consoles from different companies though. we need that competition because none of the console companies hit every checkbox. competition is good.
Those saying it doesn't make sense are people who understand the industry well enough to know that there isn't actually a developer called Naughty Dog. There is a wholly owned, entirely internal software studio within Sony that goes by the name Naughty Dog. There literally isn't a distinct "Naughty Dog" to buy out and move on here.
Go look at the interviews quoted earlier in this thread about Naughty Dog people talking about the ICE team. When the journalist doing the interview was surprised when the ND staffer referred to the ICE team as an internal Naughty Dog group and followed up with by saying "I thought ICE was an internal Sony team" the ND staffer's response effectively amounted to them saying "yes, what's your point?"
Just because the name is Naughty Dog and not Sony Santa Monica doesn't mean they're any less a part of Sony. No one was asking for someone to save Sony Liverpool from being closed, even though they used to e an independent studio called Psygnosis, because they had become fully integrated into SCEE. Same with Evolution, which is now a major branch of SCEE despite still going by the Evolution name.
Bungie still had major staffers leave and had already lost one of the founders to go work on new things. A Bungie without Jason Jones and company isn't worth turning the lights on, MS had no choice. Sony have made major staffing decisions at ND for several major departures and hires already (when Rubin left, when Gavin left, when they hired Amy Hennig away from Crystal Dynamics, etc.)
I would argue that different competing hardware formats are the problem, not first party developers. Sony, MS, and Nintendo have a right to the software pie just like anyone else, after all they're the ones providing all the materials for that pie to even exist. The problem comes from an industry that fails to accept a universal standard like the movie industry did decades ago (VHS > DVD > Blu-Ray) as did the music industry (vinyl > cassettes > CDs > MP3). Other formats exist in those industries but all the major players have unified behind a single major format for the majority of distribution, making their products available to all owners.
This is why we need a one console solution where the base hardware is licensed out to manufacturers, a la DVD and Blu-Ray. Sony would obviously be amenable as this is the model they 1. initially tried to get off the ground via their attempts to partner with Nintendo and SEGA and 2. it's what they do in their other major industries. Microsoft would probably be resistant unless they got full control of the base OS the hardware would run (which isn't feasible, though if they'd pull back to just DirectX as the base API they'd probably reach agreement rather quickly with Sony). Nintendo would obviously refuse because they have crazy views on hardware that has relegated them to also ran most of recent history.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Wouldnt the loss in hardware focus mean that they will waste resources in porting games to other platforms? And Sony seems to be giving them all the freedom and attention they need.
Oh yeah.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
It's a console launch. Fanboy/troll accusations get thrown around like snowballs. Best to clear the air and get that out of the way right off.
People have been talking about the OCF (one console future) for a long time man. What you described there was how MS originally tried to enter the industry (buying Nintendo and having them become the "games division" with MS money and muscle behind them).
Also, I think that partnership would get their ass handed to them by Sony. The gap between Miyamoto and company and MS' brain trust would be wider than the ocean that separates their home offices.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
This. That´s their biggest strength.
I think Sony and Naugthy Dog are a perfect match, just like Rareware was back then with Nintendo.
I would not be a bit surprised if Sony pays these guys MUCH higher % of what a developer would normally get per sold game.
Sony knows these guys are really what is making the Playstation different right now. They showcase the system from a graphic standpoint, and position the Playstation brand as something that isn't the next big shooter.
Sure there are a few others, but the Uncharteds, and now TLOU sells systems.
I assure you. NaughtyDog is aware of this and so is Sony. If NaughtyDog is still with Sony, it is because it makes business sense to do so.
Sony knows these guys are really what is making the Playstation different right now. They showcase the system from a graphic standpoint, and position the Playstation brand as something that isn't the next big shooter.
Sure there are a few others, but the Uncharteds, and now TLOU sells systems.
I assure you. NaughtyDog is aware of this and so is Sony. If NaughtyDog is still with Sony, it is because it makes business sense to do so.
Nemesis121
Member
Bungie buys themselves back and the first game they make is a fucking FPS, and if it sells they will be in the same situation when they were owned by MS, if Naughty Dog buy were to do the same i just hope they don't create something similar to what they have created..
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Bungie isn't owned by Activsion. They decided to make the game they wanted to make, which Activision picked up, and hammered out an agreement that was fine with Bungie. When that contract is fufilled, they'll move on to make whatever they want.
PlanetSmasher
Banned
Possible? Yes. Probable? No. Naughty Dog has no interest in revisiting those IPs, and Activision would probably not be interested in working with Sony on such a project anyway.
It isn't.
There are tons of talented developers, but a few stand above the rest. Is everyone just unanimously better? No. It's about the environment. Sony have allowed Naughty Dog to foster the right environment. Job security, creative freedom etc.
When you look at the best games you've ever played, immediately you might look at a pattern amongst developers e.g. 'Naughty Dog have made 3 of my top ten games of all time'. When you consider it some more, you find that the majority of the 'best games' have had delayed releases, which tends to be the key differentiator. Sony give Naughty Dog the time, resources and security to make their own creative choices. They give this freedom to Quantic Dream, Sony Santa Monica etc.
TL;DR: Naughty Dog aren't so exceptional that under another publisher they would be achieving as well as they do.
Naughty Dog would not have to make the game. Perhaps Sanzaru or Cerny's Japan team. I'd like a next gen Crash Bandicoot game, whether its exclusive or not.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I think what is most important is that Sony keeps the talented people at Naughty Dog happy. They are qualified enough to get just about any job they want, and could even quit to make their own studio. It's important for Sony that they give them enough creative control for them to make the games they want under the Sony umbrella.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Sony and nintendo would probably have a good laugh at this.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
This. This fucking here. Sony closes only the studios that have put titles that have sold terrible for them, and ND is the studio that sells the most along with Polyphony.
If anything I bet Bungie saw even Ensemble being closed down before their game went out and were thankful for having gotten out of MS.
This is key in the discussion:
Activision is still big bad Activision with this clause. They don't even have to argue why they cut ties with Bungie, they can actually fuck them over with this. Even with all their reputation behind them, Bungie is still taking economical and business risks, Naughty Dog doesn't have to worry about anything, aside from making an actual game.
dragonbane
Member
1. Sony wouldn't allow it, because they have no backup plan like Microsoft had with 343. They really need Naughty Dog
2. It's not just a single IP like Halo. Naughty Dog has shown that they can create new IPs and can turn them into franchises with huge success. You don't give someone like this up
3. Naughty Dog is pretty happy where they are now and get insane creative freedom. I really don't see why they should care about sales numbers at this point
2. It's not just a single IP like Halo. Naughty Dog has shown that they can create new IPs and can turn them into franchises with huge success. You don't give someone like this up
3. Naughty Dog is pretty happy where they are now and get insane creative freedom. I really don't see why they should care about sales numbers at this point
No, I think Naughty Dog has a very good situation for themselves.
Naughty Dog's games sell 3-5M, unlike the obvious comparison of Bungie, whose games have sold 8-10M.
This is a very significant difference. It almost certainly means that third party publishers do/would give Bungie more rope than they would give Naughty Dog, and since both are cinematic/big budget blockbuster game designers, having lots of money to blow is something they care a great deal about.
In short: Bungie had a higher chance of finding a big-budget partner than does Naughty Dog. No one will give ND the leeway that Sony has.
Naughty Dog's games sell 3-5M, unlike the obvious comparison of Bungie, whose games have sold 8-10M.
This is a very significant difference. It almost certainly means that third party publishers do/would give Bungie more rope than they would give Naughty Dog, and since both are cinematic/big budget blockbuster game designers, having lots of money to blow is something they care a great deal about.
In short: Bungie had a higher chance of finding a big-budget partner than does Naughty Dog. No one will give ND the leeway that Sony has.
SwiftDeath
Member
Something else I remember that's a good example of why being a 3rd Party Publisher might not be ideal
Obsidian missed a bonus from Publisher Bethesda by one point on Metacritic
ONE point cost them the bonus that I believe was based off of royalties
Sony isn't perfect but they don't play the numbers games the same way other publishers do
Some Publishers are just terrible, granted from what I can tell now ND is just Sony so not really a clear distinction
Obsidian missed a bonus from Publisher Bethesda by one point on Metacritic
ONE point cost them the bonus that I believe was based off of royalties
Sony isn't perfect but they don't play the numbers games the same way other publishers do
Some Publishers are just terrible, granted from what I can tell now ND is just Sony so not really a clear distinction
PanicFreak
Member
Why on Earth would you want them spending time on those projects?
I don't think so. We've already seen that some first party publishers are more willing to take risks and offer creative freedom to their developers than others, especially when compared to third-party developed games. I think that an absence of first party diversity would mean less games like The Last of Us and more games like Fuse.
ProfessorMoran
Member
This is why Rare should buy themselves back to stop the vicious cycle of being forced to make kinect games.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Fairly sure that, at 2.85M, GT5 is the best selling Sony game in the US.
Uncharted 2 did 3 million in the states.
if they buy themselves back they'll be like insomniac. they'll have to find themselves a publisher and whoever they find might force them to change their ideas. like insomnaics overstrike to fuse. No third party publisher in their right minds would of let The last of us come out this gen, they would of forced them to push it to next gen. Sony lets their studios do what they want, so why bother looking for another publisher. Sticking with Sony would allow them to use the full power of a console..not bring it down to the weakest link.
ProfessorMoran
Member
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Okay buddy
Brofist
Member
That's what I'll be doing. Used and at half the price like every other ND game I've bought.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
You buy all your games used?
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