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Should we end aging forever? - Kurzgesagt

Laiza

Member
Sure, but would you prefer to grow weak and infirm or stave off physical and neurological decline before you decide that you're bored?
Not only that, but boredom is a transitory state. It's something you can directly address whenever it occurs.

This is just such a weirdly recurring objection, in spite of how easy it is to answer. It really boggles my mind sometimes.
I don't want to die, but we'll have to take one for the team and bite the dust. We're not ready for that shit as a species. America alone is exhibit A. Give it another 500 years or so and then we'll see.
Once again (but this is probably fruitless because so many of you are drive-by posters), this is not up to you. This is not a debate. It will happen regardless of your objections.

Better question: What can we do to ensure a smooth transition into a population that can live centuries with no signs of aging?
 

Van Bur3n

Member
I'd love to live forever. It bugs me every time when I think about death, in that I only get to see what happens in my lifetime because that is all that time allows. I want to witness it all. See how far humanity advances and what can be achieved.
 

Usobuko

Banned
Death is necessary for the goodwill of the planet.

Besides over population, philanthropy will be reduced significantly if the rich thinks they will never die.
 
it's accurate.

there are signs that it is possible. if it is possible it will happen. no ifs ands or buts about it.



why?
That's very selective use of logic, no? It's also possible we will die as a species or at least that our civilizations will disappear before such technology blossoms. Between the two scenarios the capability of ending all life currently exists and the alternative of sustaining it indefinitely does not.

Iron this whole "if it is possible it will happen" stuff out for me.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
1. Unless you can figure out how to deal with the overuse of resources and overpopulation that would result from this, no.

2. Unless it's something that is equally applied to all instead of monopolized by the rich, no.

nope dont care about this at all. If you conform to capitalism this is an end issue and im fine with it within the system. I dont like it personally but unless we can figure out communism im perfectly fine with this.
 
another interesting video on the subject that came out today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C25qzDhGLx8&t=0s

That's very selective use of logic, no? It's also possible we will die as a species or at least that our civilizations will disappear before such technology blossoms. Between the two scenarios the capability of ending all life currently exists and the alternative of sustaining it indefinitely does not.

Iron this whole "if it is possible it will happen" stuff out for me.

i mean we could die as a species sure. barring that i don't think anything will stop it. civilization collapses, new civilization will arise, they will eventually discover the technology, and continue to research it

it is the holy grail. i don't think there is a human in existence who hasn't thought about this concept at one point in their life.
 

HeatBoost

Member
While I don't have a philosophical or moral opposition to the use of technology to expand the human lifespan...

Whenever I hear about this kind of tectonic shift in human evolution being brought about via technology, it fills my head with the grimmest images of dystopia. Because all of this technology is going to exist for rich people exclusively at first, and I can't help but think that they're going to want to monopolize it somehow.
 
An immortality vaccine at our current technological and cultural level would be disastrous but I wouldn't assume either will be by the time such a treatment become available. A cure for aging is still probably a few generations off and by then our culture and tech to mitigate human impact on the environment might be enough to accommodate. Or it won't, there will be an ecological collapse, a large portion of the human population (mostly the poor) will die off, and you'll have a reduced population level continue marching forward.

I don't really see this as an IF thing, it's really going to be a WHEN assuming we aren't wiped out by a mass extinction event that renders Earth utterly uninhabitable for centuries. And if you're coming at this philosophically, death exists for evolutionary reasons we're already transcending anyway. Genetic engineering will make it completely redundant some day very soon. One day we'll move past aging as a species just like we moved past polio and I doubt anyone's going to look back and wish people were still dying because their bodies were falling apart slowly over time.*
 

Ri'Orius

Member
"I have lived a hundred and ten years," [Dumbledore] said quietly (taking his beard out of the bowl, and jiggling it to shake out the color). "I have seen and done a great many things, too many of which I wish I had never seen or done. And yet I do not regret being alive, for watching my students grow is a joy that has not begun to wear on me. But I would not wish to live so long that it does! What would you do with eternity, Harry?"

Harry took a deep breath. "Meet all the interesting people in the world, read all the good books and then write something even better, celebrate my first grandchild's tenth birthday party on the Moon, celebrate my first great-great-great grandchild's hundredth birthday party around the Rings of Saturn, learn the deepest and final rules of Nature, understand the nature of consciousness, find out why anything exists in the first place, visit other stars, discover aliens, create aliens, rendezvous with everyone for a party on the other side of the Milky Way once we've explored the whole thing, meet up with everyone else who was born on Old Earth to watch the Sun finally go out, and I used to worry about finding a way to escape this universe before it ran out of negentropy but I'm a lot more hopeful now that I've discovered the so-called laws of physics are just optional guidelines."

Sign me up for immortality, please.
 

Moose Biscuits

It would be extreamly painful...
I'd be happy to live forever healthy and stuff. I just wouldn't want to change my current lifestyle of consumption to do so.

If that's not possible and I'd have to give up a lot of stuff to live forever, I'd rather keep as I am: consume as much as possible then die off before the world gets significantly worse as a result. I have no desire to be caught up in the resource wars people say will be inevitable.
 
Hello fellow mortals.

As a mortal, just like you insec- er... I mean incredible humans, which Is a species I am also a member of. I believe that it is wrong to try to walk the path of higher lifeforms. You all should know your place at the bottom of the cosmic food chain. I meant we... We should should all know our place.

As we all know, The flesh of mortals are the tastiest. All of my kind agrees. And by my kind I am referring to idiot humans, like myself.

If we, the human cattle of the third planet of the star sol were to suddenly become immortal then what would us, the old gods of dark and space feed upon. Did I say us? Sorry that was actually the sound of a sneeze. A perfectly normal mortal human reaction to irritation of ones nostrils.

Thank you all for listening and I hope we as a primitive species can continue being nutrients for magnificent cosmic deities for many eons to come.

HUMANS RULE!
 

Necron

Member
Hello fellow mortals.

As a mortal, just like you insec- er... I mean incredible humans, which Is a species I am also a member of. I believe that it is wrong to try to walk the path of higher lifeforms. You all should know your place at the bottom of the cosmic food chain. I meant we... We should should all know our place.

As we all know, The flesh of mortals are the tastiest. All of my kind agrees. And by my kind I am referring to idiot humans, like myself.

If we, the human cattle of the third planet of the star sol were to suddenly become immortal then what would us, the old gods of dark and space feed upon. Did I say us? Sorry that was actually the sound of a sneeze. A perfectly normal mortal human reaction to irritation of ones nostrils.

Thank you all for listening and I hope we as a primitive species can continue being nutrients for magnificent cosmic deities for many eons to come.

HUMANS RULE!

Bloodborne 2: The Tower that Ate People edition

----------------

I'm all for life-extending technologies yet I fear their misuse might create more problems for us all.

It's a selfish notion to want to live longer, however, theoretically it could lead to miraculous things for us as a species. I still think we're not ready for something like it, though.
 
These threads are always full of the most annoying, erroneous assumptions.

snip...

Finally, you're going to participate in it anyway. No matter what you believe or what you've said in this thread, you WILL do absolutely everything in your power to extend your healthspan when such technology is available - because why the fuck would you not? Obviously, many of us will be stymied in terms of access by monetary concerns, but given enough time even the cost of such care will eventually fall due to technological progress (especially thanks to things like general artificial intelligence becoming a reality within the next decade or so). It is simply an inevitability that you will have access to cheap pills that will extend your health span and you'd have to be quite literally suicidal to pass that up.

snip...

Laiza, I agree with most of what you've said except for AGI becoming a reality in the next decade. AGI is further away than most people realize, we won't have strong AI or AGI anytime soon maybe not even in the 21st century.

On topic:
I'd like to choose the age at which I die. Having that sort of control is calming
 
Well, we should all die imo. But it would be great if life didn't end in some anti-climax.
Would love to stay the age i am now for another 50 years.
 

Fbh

Member
The problem is that the only way I see this going is rich people getting to live longer while everyone else dies.
 

Kenai

Member
1. Unless you can figure out how to deal with the overuse of resources and overpopulation that would result from this, no.

2. Unless it's something that is equally applied to all instead of monopolized by the rich, no.

+1.

I do not trust us to handle this type of tech even a little bit responsibly as is, and it would be foolish to not take such things into account.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Why wouldn't you wanna age? Aging is a good thing. Imagine being stuck as a teenager.
 

Boylamite

Member
Not only that, but boredom is a transitory state. It's something you can directly address whenever it occurs.

This is just such a weirdly recurring objection, in spite of how easy it is to answer. It really boggles my mind sometimes.

Once again (but this is probably fruitless because so many of you are drive-by posters), this is not up to you. This is not a debate. It will happen regardless of your objections.

Better question: What can we do to ensure a smooth transition into a population that can live centuries with no signs of aging?

This thread is literally called "should we end aging" not "what will we do when we all stop aging?"
 
no because that's hella dumb to do without having the ability to colonize other places
hopefully not colonize like humans have done throughout history
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Why would you want to get old? Getting old is a shitty thing. Imagine being stuck as an old person.
There's something inherently interesting about the way culture evolves overtime as you get older. If you stop aging that kinda disappears.

Aging is good until you reach your thirties. Then it sucks
I'm not 30 so I wouldn't know. But I do come from a family that ages gracefully.
 

Ogodei

Member
1. Unless you can figure out how to deal with the overuse of resources and overpopulation that would result from this, no.

2. Unless it's something that is equally applied to all instead of monopolized by the rich, no.

The assumption is that our increasing lifespan would proportionately decrease our fertility, much as it has been already. Families don't procreate throughout a woman's fertile years anymore because you know, barring great misfortune, that every baby you have is going to reach adulthood. Part of the need for children in the modern day is to have somebody to look after you in your old age (my grandparents lived on their own or in assisted living down to their last days, but the help of my parents was still crucial in those final years). If you never have old age, the *need* for kids decreases and drops down to purely those who prefer to have kids because they like them.
 

Fou-Lu

Member
I really don't think the majority of posts saying no to anti-aging in this thread watched either video, or even really thought about it. So many posts about how they don't want to be stuck as an old person.

The acceptance of death is a shit excuse that we use because most people HAVE to accept death or they'll go fucking crazy. Death should be fought tooth and nail for as long as you can, because living is better than not fucking existing anymore.

As for the people who worry so much about us killing the Earth... No more aging means humanity can spread out to the far reaches of the universe. Even if we killed our earth we would have millions more. Of course I don't want the Earth and all the species on it to die, but it'll happen eventually anyway, we need to leave it so it doesnt' happen to us too.
 

Laiza

Member
Laiza, I agree with most of what you've said except for AGI becoming a reality in the next decade. AGI is further away than most people realize, we won't have strong AI or AGI anytime soon maybe not even in the 21st century.
They said AlphaGo was at least a decade away from beating human players. They were wrong.

Obviously, AGI is a very different beast from convoluted neural networks, but not even in the 21st century? I just can't imagine how you could possibly come to that conclusion if you've been watching the progress in the field over the past several years. If we don't have AGI by 2045 at the very latest, something had to have gone very, very wrong in our R&D. In fact, I'm quite thoroughly confident that we'll have AGI before Elon Musk's Neuralink venture can produce the non-intrusive brain-machine interface they're trying so hard to perfect before AGI becomes an actuality.

Technological progress is not linear, after all. Remember, just a generation ago the fastest supercomputer we had was running around 125 gigaflops. Today? 93 petaflops. Let's write that out:
125,000,000,000 FLOPs vs 93,000,000,000,000,000. 125*10^9 vs 93*10^15.

Obviously, there is no guarantee that progress can continue like that indefinitely. However, between quantum computing, graphene, carbon nanotubes, and all these other alternate computing paradigms being developed in parallel with silicon, I think it would be foolhardy to exclaim that we're going to hit some kind of hard wall. We're going to see some amazing things happening over the next decade... and all of those things will pale in comparison to the things we see the decade after. It's going to be a wild ride for sure.
[...] A cure for aging is still probably a few generations off[...]
Nope. Why would you look at the last century of technological advancement, then compare it to the last decade of technological advancement, and then conclude that something like this is generations away?

Technological progress is not linear.
This thread is literally called "should we end aging" not "what will we do when we all stop aging?"
The video addresses that by mentioning everything that's happening with regards to anti-aging technology. Anyone responding to the thread title and not the content of the video is drive-by posting by definition.
While I don't have a philosophical or moral opposition to the use of technology to expand the human lifespan...

Whenever I hear about this kind of tectonic shift in human evolution being brought about via technology, it fills my head with the grimmest images of dystopia. Because all of this technology is going to exist for rich people exclusively at first, and I can't help but think that they're going to want to monopolize it somehow.
I see this a lot and it's a bit silly, because despite how disconnected a lot of rich folks can seem from the common folk a lot of the time, they are still human beings, and they are not ALL 100% self-centered psychopaths with no real interaction with the outside world. It's easy to make that assumption when you see an asshole like Trump taking the president's office, but he is not every rich person. When even Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerburg see the writing on the wall, there is at least some hope for the future.

While there are definitely evil rich people, any attempt to monopolize such technology would inevitably result in political backlash, and possibly pave the way to real healthcare legislation in the USA. The only issue is making sure it gets enough publicity.
 

qcf x2

Member
Not only that, but boredom is a transitory state. It's something you can directly address whenever it occurs.

This is just such a weirdly recurring objection, in spite of how easy it is to answer. It really boggles my mind sometimes.

Once again (but this is probably fruitless because so many of you are drive-by posters), this is not up to you. This is not a debate. It will happen regardless of your objections.

Better question: What can we do to ensure a smooth transition into a population that can live centuries with no signs of aging?

Build cities in space. Start colonizing the solar system and beyond. Won't be bored for billions of years. Start building up sustainably in poor areas of our planet.

I agree that it's essentially a birthright of humanity.
 

Neo C.

Member
There isn't "a" cure for aging, but dozens of possible solutions for dozens of aging processes. People probably don't know about it, but there are already a bunch of enzymes and proteins in clinical tests. It just needs one of these being approved to get things rolling.

Edit:
Spend the research on ending Alzheimers first. Unless anti-aging is a solution to Alzheimers...
Have you seen the video? Yes, yes it absolutely is. Sure, there are also young Alzheimer-patients, but they are rare and mostly because of genetics.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Like how? There is so much to life. I mean if you live in a one horse town the whole time, ok sure. But, you could travel the world 1000 times and still find new things to see and discover.

I'd live 2000 years if I could.

You're supposing this is a fair world and you would be able to enjoy said immortality rather than being made to work for hundreds of years before you're free to enjoy it. That shit isn't going to be cheap.
 

Nephtis

Member
I’m totally on board with ending aging at a certain age

But we should still have our finite lifespan. Still die of natural causes, etc
 
What's the obsession with living long? Fuck no, I wouldn't want to live 300 years. At some point it would just become boring.

At least a few philosophers claim that when we're functioning at our best, we have infinite curiosity and want to know everything about everything. And I'm somewhat inclined to agree, boredom seems like a problem within our temperament, not a foregone conclusion.
 
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