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[DieH@rd]

For those still not managing to warp their brain around the Sonys plans with Neo, imagine if you had the chance to enter store in holiday season of 2009 or 2010 and see on shelves PS3 Slim for $299 and newly-introduced PS3 Ken for $399. Both with identical OS/services and games, but Premium console being able to play games a bit better [higher res, more effects, maybe jump from 30>60fps for some games]. And then in 2013 PS4 arrived and resetted the playing field, offering new base hardware platform for making new games.

PS4 will now go through this same series of events, except when PS5 arrives all PS4 [and Neo] games will remain playable since base architecture will not be changed dramatically.

 

[LukasTaves]

I don't think he's correct, if Neo is just PS4 then I can't imagine them putting out a third PS4 but I also can't imagine them letting Scorpio have the power gap for 3 years either assuming this yen lasts as long as the last one.

I think they are both getting away from generation cycles, but they have to be careful with their messaging, and stressing that these new consoles are still ps4 and xbone one to avoid confusion and backslash.

When the next thing after neo and Scorpio comes and doesn't outright kill PS4, or xbone they will be able to eventually phase out them and explain that ps4k and Scorpio will continue to have support for a while without alienating the user base.

 

[@Wreck]

That's just marketing verbiage. You can just as easily say 'PS4 allows 1 local player, Neo 'extends' to 4'.

What I mean, is that it's pretty simple to 'word' any feature to sound like an 'extension' and not an 'extra' if you want.

-The PS4 has 10 enemies on the screen at a time, the Neo 'extends' that to 20.
-The PS4 has dynamic lighting, the Neo 'extends' that to dynamic weather as well.
-The PS4 has destructible walls, the Neo 'extends' that to completely destructible environments.

If they allow the Neo to 'extend' features, you can bet your bottom dollar we will quickly see significant differences in games if the power differential is there.

This is going to get ugly imo, as Neo owners complain PS4 owners are 'holding everything back' and PS4 owners complain about poorly optimized games and missing features ["non-extended features", lol]. Consoles have long been at odds with iterative design and trying to combine them will have some extreme growing pains, imo.

probably higher textures for 4k and increased frame rate non of that other business you are talking about*





*for now
\.

 

[Nightengale]

To be fair, what Microsoft and Sony call choice and an extension would a generation ago have been called a nextgen console with full backwards compatibility. After three years.

Enforced backward compatibility. A generation ago you could still make exclusive games to a single platform. But to develop for Scorpio/Neo... the SKU must be compatible with vanilla.

 

[Jamesways]

Will it give us the highest quality pixels though?

 

[DieH@rd]

Will it give us the highest quality pixels though?

100% uncompressed pixels for sure.

 

[Dangansona]

lol the Doom and gloom among certain posters is laughable. Console generations need to exist for console manufacturers like Sony to make money. Most people are not going to buy the Neo. They will wait for the next console gen. And that's why it's in Sony's interest to release a PS5.

Anyone who thinks PS5 will be PS Neo 2 is being a bit paranoid. Devs are not going to keep making games to support a 1.84 Tflop GPU. At some point they will stop. And at that point they are not going to make games designed on the base specs of a 4.2 Tflop Neo. They will make cross gen games at the start of the gen just like they did this gen, but after a year or two, no one is going to want to be limited by a 4.2 tflop GPU when they have a 10-12 tflop next GPU to put to use.

Exactly. Why are we in the minority on here for understanding this?

BTW if anyone hasn't seen it- Colin Moriarty on PS I Love You absolutely eviscerated Neo. I don't agree with every thing he's saying, but I seriously think Sony needs to take two steps back and get their messaging, hardware, and price points in check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KDYsXK7f-0&t=23m43s

If he's any indication of the response mainstream media, gamers, and the wider market will respond- the idea of a "Premium PlayStation" might do more damage than it does good.

On a personal note- I like the idea of Neo, I just think that it can't be more than $399 and Sony should try and minimize the power gap between it and Scorpio with clock modifications as much as they can.

Moriarty's schtick on this has been obnoxious from the off. He started out blithering on about how it's a terrible idea, and now Microsoft has suckered him with the Scorpio announcement when he doesn't really understand the specs.

He should hush about it until it's actually revealed, but I fear he's already made up his mind about it and is just going to go about defending his position from now on.

Yup, Colin is totally wrong about this and I seriously doubt he will ever step it back even post release.

 

[Paz]

That's just marketing verbiage.

The quote you're replying to is not from Sony's public statements, there is a zero percent chance it has anything to do with marketing, if the leak were real.

 

[@Wreck]

Will it give us the highest quality pixels though?

yes these pixel will get you higher than you have ever or will be*






*for now

 

[Jamesways]

100% uncompressed pixels for sure.

yes these pixel will get you higher than you have ever or will be*






*for now

Love it!

 

[@Wreck]

Love it!

first hits FREE!!!!!

 

[DjRalford]

probably higher textures for 4k and increased frame rate non of that other business you are talking about*





*for now
.

4K textures, no chance on anything bar some small Indy titles

 

[DieH@rd]

4K textures, no chance on anything bar some small Indy titles

This makes no sense.

"4K textures" can be shown without problem, but the question remains how strong will LOD distances be for distant [lower quality] textures. Texturing is not an issue, rendering everything else at 4K is.

 

[J-Skee]

Does anyone know what kind of breakthrough it would take to usher in a new generation of consoles after the Neo & Scorpio come out? Because if the only thing we can figure is just brute forcing for better graphics & framerates, I don't think there needs to be another generation of consoles.

I personally feel like Sony, at the very least, doesn't have to make a "PS5" or whatever a new console would be. They've learned to play nice with developers by getting rid of the Cell processor & now have the grounds for any title released on the PS4 to always be accessible on any machine going forward. Sure, whatever comes after Neo will most likely not be forward compatible with the PS4, but by then, hopefully everyone is ready to purchase a new machine.

 

[@Wreck]

4K textures, no chance on anything bar some small Indy titles

nah just high res textures not 4k textures

so you in then?

i'm not trying to sell it, i'm just trying to speculate, this is fun we should do it more =)

 

[The Praiseworthy]

No one should expect PS5 before Holidays 2020.

As for the subject itself, I thought it was clear already.

 

[bud]

could a game like uncharted 4 run at 60fps on neo? and would it look better, too, or would it not be possible to make both visual and frame rate improvements of that nature (going from 30fps to 60fps)?

 

[@Wreck]

No one should expect PS5 before Holidays 2020.

As for the subject itself, I thought it was clear already.

a person of reason =)

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

All Scorpio games will work on X1, it's not a new generation

Wait is this true? I thought Spencer said something to the effect of, the devs can do "whatever they like". Or was that part of the botched messaging of the Scorpio reveal?

 

[IvorB]

Next time they should announce the high end and low end model together so that everybody knows where they stand.

 

[Astral Dog]

People with common sense should have known this since the first rumors

 

[Afrikan]

Why don't they just out right just say that the PS4 NEO is for people who have 4K TVs... nothing more.... a system that takes advantage of their high end TV.

I'm sure they would love NON-4K owners to buy a Neo just for more sales, but is that worth the confusion? The bad PR?


I think Sony wanted the PS3 gen to last longer... but they couldn't afford to have Microsoft jump out with any early launch again... so everything was shortened.

If the PS3 and 360 lasted just a year or two longer, I don't believe the PS4 Neo/Xbox S would even exist..... they would have just been a PS4 and XboxOne, which both would have been ready to support 4K at launch.

then a normal console cycle, then a PS5/XboxTwo....(with maybe a slimmer version from both in the middle of that gen, but nothing that added power)

 

[DarkConfidant]

Ps4 neo is ps4.
Xbox Scorpio is Xbox One.

Neither company is ending a life cycle. They're only enriching it.

I wouldn’t be too sure about the Xbox Scorpio simply being Xbox One, though I’m confident that the Neo is just another PS4.

 

[@Wreck]

could a game like uncharted 4 run at 60fps on neo? and would it look better, too, or would it not be possible to make both visual and frame rate improvements of that nature (going from 30fps to 60fps)?

framerates a tricky thing

might just mean more stable in some rare cases increased framerate, it really depends on the Dev if gameplay features are tied to framerate or not etc etc.. also what do i know right?

 

[KingJ2002]

With all the comments made at e3... this seemed like the route Microsoft and Sony were taking.

The PS4 and Xbox One lines aren't going away... they're just expanding them with new versions to support 4K & VR gaming.

and I can't imagine this being an ongoing trend unless more technology is released where there is a need for a new console to support it. I see the PS5 being just one SKU at launch.

 

[Paz]

could a game like uncharted 4 run at 60fps on neo? and would it look better, too, or would it not be possible to make both visual and frame rate improvements of that nature (going from 30fps to 60fps)?

We don't have publicly revealed specs or know any of the bottlenecks UC4 hits (Though you can speculate GPU since the multiplayer drops resolution and visual complexity in exchange for framerate, and this is where the leaks indicated the biggest upgrade for PS4 High End).

I wouldn't trust anybody who says they can answer your question really.

 

[VinFTW]

I wouldn’t be too sure about the Xbox Scorpio simply being Xbox One, though I’m confident that the Neo is just another PS4.

There's more information out there that the Scorpio is an upgraded Xbox One, yet you still don't believe it?

lmao

 

[The Praiseworthy]

a person of reason =)

I love being reasonable ;=)

Why don't they just out right just say that the PS4 NEO is for people who have 4K TVs... nothing more.... a system that takes advantage of their high end TV.

I'm sure they would love NON-4K owners to buy a Neo just for more sales, but is that worth the confusion? The bad PR?


I think Sony wanted the PS3 gen to last longer... but they couldn't afford to have Microsoft jump out with any early launch again... so everything was shortened.

If the PS3 and 360 lasted just a year or two longer, I don't believe the PS4 Neo/Xbox S would even exist..... they would have just been a PS4 and XboxOne, which both would have been ready to support 4K at launch.

then a normal console cycle, then a PS5/XboxTwo....(with maybe a slimmer version from both in the middle of that gen, but nothing that added power)

I Totally agree with this.

 

[Obscuritas]

I don't know why MS want this gen last longer, this only limit Scorpio potential.
Their fans base are ready to move on, just listen carefully, no one going to complaint if Scorpio is Xbox 2.

Neogaf != general public

Starting a new gen is not as easy as snapping your fingers. Microsoft can't and won't do that, and the same goes for Sony.

 

[Mexen]

Ne gamer-san, Pi-essu Yon wa Pi-essu Yon n_n

 

[Keihart]

i really hope that Neo doesn't support PS5 games, and that there'll be a PS5. If not, we are doomed to eternal cross gen , THE HORROR!

 

[Tonky]

If premium and standard models have to be cross compatible from now on, we'll never get a big graphical jump like PS2-PS3 or PS3-PS4 again, will we?

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think its obvious they still are planning a much larger leap for the next console in comparison to the NEO, which will be the new standard for developers, which is just a marginal iteration of PS4.

 

[wapplew]

Neogaf != general public

Starting a new gen is not as easy as snapping your fingers. Microsoft can't and won't do that, and the same goes for Sony.

Why not, 360 was 4 years after Xbox and it's the most successful Xbox console. Xbox one owner is ready to leave it behind.

 

[Obscuritas]

Why not, 360 was 4 years after Xbox and it's the most successful Xbox console. Xbox one owner is ready to leave it behind.

Yeah, that was a totally different scenario.

 

[truth411]

I don't think he's correct, if Neo is just PS4 then I can't imagine them putting out a third PS4 but I also can't imagine them letting Scorpio have the power gap for 3 years either assuming this yen lasts as long as the last one.

Less than 10% of the market have 4k tvs. @ 1080p your not going to see much of any difference between Neo and Scorpio, Both will do 1080p at Max effects.

 

[Aceofspades]

Quoting myself from two weeks ago.

I feel like I'm the only one who understood the purpose of Scorpio/Neo..

Scorpio/Neo are mid-gen update for their 8th gen consoles (PS4/X1).

They are not intended to replace those machines at all (all games should be playable on both current/upgraded consoles).

Scorpio/Neo could provide extra resolution/framerates to current games or both (there won't be any exclusive games made for those machines)

Scorpio/Neo share the same OS as current versions, no need to overhaul the OS since they are considered of a same generation.

Scorpio/Neo are part of the same generation as PS4/X1

PS5/XboxTwo are the real successors to PS4/X1. With new OS/servers and might not be BC with current gen including Scorpio/Neo.


I feel generations are still the main theme for console, only difference is introducing a mid-gen update to keep up with advances in GPU, TV res or other technologies.

Generations are still here to stay.

 

[Gurish]

Quoting myself from two weeks ago.



Generations are still here to stay.

This seems true from Sony's prespective, not from MS's, most probably Scorpio will be able to run Scorpio 2 games at lower settings.

 

[SOR5]

Quoting myself from two weeks ago.



Generations are still here to stay.

Not for Xbox, their E3 focus was going beyond generations

Might stay for PlayStation though

 

[Aceofspades]

This seems true from Sony's prespective, not from MS's, most probably Scorpio will be able to run Scorpio 2 games at lower settings.

Maybe, but I feel like Sony/MS will have vastly different architecture for PS5/Xb2 that seeking BC will be very difficult.

Its just me speculating here..

 

[Who]

It seems Nintendo and Microsoft are taking the forward compatible route ala iOS and Android.

I think it would be foolish for Sony not to follow suit, esp considering the huge head-start they're enjoying.

 

[Logash]

You know I was looking through the specs and "Teraflops" of all the upcoming consoles and I noticed that the PS4 Neo is twice as powerful as the PS4 and the Scorpio is about 4-5 times as powerful as the Xbox One. While it's true that the mid gen upgrades don't push the boundraies as much as a whole new gen, the scorpio comes pretty close and thinking about diminshing returns possible what would have happened anyway. I think that the Scorpio definitely seems like it will disturb the balance of the current consoles more than the neo. I mean look at it, it is signifigantly more powerful than the Xbox One. I wonder why Xbox owners don't seem as upset about it as PS4 owner when they heard about the Neo

Wjhat worries me the most is that the Scorpio doesn't seem to have the same restrictions that the Neo has. Did anyone from Microsoft say anthing about all Scorpio games have to run on Xbox One? It's going to be interesting to see how they both turn out.

 

[The Lamp]

Ps4 neo is ps4.
Xbox Scorpio is Xbox One.

Neither company is ending a life cycle. They're only enriching it.

If that's the case, then why is the Scorpio leaps and bounds more powerful than Xbone if it's just there to provide some technical bumps? Why should people spend what might be $400+ for something that won't be leading the next generation of software?

 

[c0de]

Maybe, but I feel like Sony/MS will have vastly different architecture for PS5/Xb2 that seeking BC will be very difficult.

Its just me speculating here..

I doubt there will ever be such a different architecture ever again that it breaks bc. Sony and MS make you buy not only a console but also bind you to their eco system. Especially with digital games and content. It would be a big “Fuck you“ from both if this doesn't carry over to a successor of a console.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Not really if all it does is upscale Xbox One games to 4K.

It remains to be seen.

That's long debunked, old chum.

 

[Inuhanyou]

For those still not managing to warp their brain around the Sonys plans with Neo, imagine if you had the chance to enter store in holiday season of 2009 or 2010 and see on shelves PS3 Slim for $299 and newly-introduced PS3 Ken for $399. Both with identical OS/services and games, but Premium console being able to play games a bit better [higher res, more effects, maybe jump from 30>60fps for some games]. And then in 2013 PS4 arrived and resetted the playing field, offering new base hardware platform for making new games.

PS4 will now go through this same series of events, except when PS5 arrives all PS4 [and Neo] games will remain playable since base architecture will not be changed dramatically.

Get that through the heads of the folks who think Sony is intentionally destroying generations and will shackle "PS5" to Neo and PS4's specifications in order to be infinitely forwards compatible.

They don't have to do that as long as PS5 is still backwards compatible with all PS4 titles

 

[c0de]

If that's the case, then why is the Scorpio leaps and bounds more powerful than Xbone if it's just there to provide some technical bumps? Why should people spend what might be $400+ for something that won't be leading the next generation of software?

Huh? Are you arguing the word “generation“? What exactly is the next generation of software for you that has to do with “generation“ at all?

 

[MilkyJoe]

Huh? Are you arguing the word “generation“? What exactly is the next generation of software for you that has to do with “generation“ at all?

I don't think everyone got the traditional generations are over memo

It seems people still expect a PS5 and Xbox 2 that are a complete reset like this and last gen.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

As long as it means we get a new gen then great, although I'll probably hold off on jumping into that one as well depending on how significant a performance increase the Neo actually ends up giving is.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

No not all. Just the non-VR ones.

Lmao