Kokoloko85
Member
Shame. There gonna miss out
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SIE Korea announced that it will not be releasing Rise of the Ronin in South Korea (more details in the OP)
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- News Drama
Let's release a game where the Nazis are the heroes and see how well that goes over.
Japan has a very shaky history with a lot of its Asian neighbors for a reason. It's easy to say that it's just a game when it's not your history. Just read up on Unit 731 to get an idea of some of the things that the Japanese were doing
Mibu no ookami
Member
Eotheod
Member
Yeah there has been a lot of hiding of Japan's historical imperialism past, which is crazy to think about. I'm not jumping to "oh my gosh total blackout" kind of conspiracy shit, as Koreans still alive today had to go through that horrific shit and no doubt are telling their stories. It is just very "mind blowing" in a way to see not much of literature mentions the horrific history.
I am not exactly sure what you are trying to state with this comment? That the game should be released because some Koreans you have entangled with are racist and sensitive (I am assuming "woke" or such here) so therefore all are?
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
More like let's imagine Germany making a game showing the origins of Nazi ideology as heroic and then trying to sell it in Israel.
near
Gold Member
He was sort of the father of Japanese imperialism and fought for that until he was executed. Upon he's death, some of he's students carried out he's legacy. A book was published during the end of the 1800s by some geezer called Tokutomi Soho, a prominent writer and opinion leader at the time, that praised Yoshida Shion as a revolutionary, and pushed nationalist views for a Great Japan. The sentiment was shared by many and as a result, Yoshida Shion's students took prominent roles in the Meiji government. The Japanese don't see him as a villain at all. But the rest of Asia? A completely different opinion is held. He's teachings and works led to their suffering.
This is actually a pretty good read if you want to know about him from a Japanese perspective:
Here is a video that also might help:
This write-up compliments the video:
Japanese Occupation
korea.prkorea.com
Key:
Seikanron - Advocacy of a punitive expedition to Korea
Joseon - the last dynastic kingdom of Korea
Ito Hirobumi - student of Yoshida Shoin who led Japanese occupation of Korea
killatopak
Member
It’s easy to forget these things when you’re not one affected.
There are still comfort women in my country doing demonstrations at the Japanese embassy. People who have living relatives who walked the Death March.
Personally, my grandparents lived during the occupation but never even mentioned or told any stories to me about them when they were still alive. I imagine they didn’t want to dig up old wounds.
On one hand, I feel like too much time has passed already but at the same time I’m not the one who lived those days so who am I to talk.
There are still comfort women in my country doing demonstrations at the Japanese embassy. People who have living relatives who walked the Death March.
Personally, my grandparents lived during the occupation but never even mentioned or told any stories to me about them when they were still alive. I imagine they didn’t want to dig up old wounds.
On one hand, I feel like too much time has passed already but at the same time I’m not the one who lived those days so who am I to talk.
crackajack
Member
I never understood how Japan was so very unable to admit their errors unlike Germans who were certainly forced by their defeat, but ultimately took the burden of the history they commited. Its neighbors are not afraid anymore, even more so after the cold war ended and Germany's war/defence stuff certainly shrunk.
Poland did not freak out when Scholz announced that (for American standards still small) extra budget for Germany's army. France and Germany get along in the EU, much more than either ever did with UK. Israel has at least good official relations with Germany (I don't know about other nations' support, but supporting Israel against a potential invasion is a boots on the ground case for them. At least until it really get's reality and it would need to be sold to the general public, who don't actually care as much about past guilt and it's a spoken promise, ie. no contract whatsoever to my knowledge.)
Overall Germany did undeniably horrible things but did not really deny it. Many pretended to not know after, but in general I think most knew what they elected and what they enabled. It's even law, so even if you want do deny, you better don't. Japan is weird and kinda terrible by not at least admitting what their ancestors did, it's not even really them anymore anyway. Kinda contradicts their whole honor act when being so cowardly about truth.
Time could heal it, but if the reason of a deep grudge is not truly admitted by the offender, I think it should not actually be forgiven, and certainly not forgotten.
I am not sure about the situation. Are Japanese trying to keep it under the rug, or would some official, any politician, face public anger if they symbolically atone for the past? Or have there been some, so generally the people allow it, it was just not enough, not high enough, to truly make peace with the affected countries? Isn't Japan hurting itself with keeping some weird nationalistic pride about their failed expansion and glorified remembrance of heros and supposed great minds when all their neighbors are kinda fuming and cooperation is possibly sometimes hindered?
Poland did not freak out when Scholz announced that (for American standards still small) extra budget for Germany's army. France and Germany get along in the EU, much more than either ever did with UK. Israel has at least good official relations with Germany (I don't know about other nations' support, but supporting Israel against a potential invasion is a boots on the ground case for them. At least until it really get's reality and it would need to be sold to the general public, who don't actually care as much about past guilt and it's a spoken promise, ie. no contract whatsoever to my knowledge.)
Overall Germany did undeniably horrible things but did not really deny it. Many pretended to not know after, but in general I think most knew what they elected and what they enabled. It's even law, so even if you want do deny, you better don't. Japan is weird and kinda terrible by not at least admitting what their ancestors did, it's not even really them anymore anyway. Kinda contradicts their whole honor act when being so cowardly about truth.
Time could heal it, but if the reason of a deep grudge is not truly admitted by the offender, I think it should not actually be forgiven, and certainly not forgotten.
I am not sure about the situation. Are Japanese trying to keep it under the rug, or would some official, any politician, face public anger if they symbolically atone for the past? Or have there been some, so generally the people allow it, it was just not enough, not high enough, to truly make peace with the affected countries? Isn't Japan hurting itself with keeping some weird nationalistic pride about their failed expansion and glorified remembrance of heros and supposed great minds when all their neighbors are kinda fuming and cooperation is possibly sometimes hindered?
DeaconOfTheDank
Member
Well said; this sums up my own feelings quite nicely.
Personally, I'm looking forward to this game since the time period in Japanese history is so interesting. You essentially went from an isolationist, feudal society to one that embraced rapid technological advancements due to forced contact with Western powers. I'm also a longtime fan of Rurouni Kenshin (specifically, the Trust and Betrayal OVAs), so that's another thing it has going for it.
It really is shameful that they chose to place a figure that preached such harmful ideology on a pedestal. Paired with Japan's weird tendency to ignore past transgressions, it's a very bad look for them. I'm hoping his teachings play a minor role in the game and that most of the focus is on an "adapt with the times or die" mindset, but I won't hold my breath. I understand Sony's decision on this.
Kokoloko85
Member
How many other nations, religions and ideologies do you see that admit to there mistakes?
Does the USA admit to the horrors they done to the Native people and to the South Americans? Does the UK teach children in school how they raped multiple nations? And caused multiple wars?
Growing up as ex half muslim half christian in the UK, I can say they didnt mention anything about the atrocities in schools and still try to defends themselves to this day. And idolise someone like Churchhill.
Do muslims and Christians admit to massacring millions and millions of people for centuries, wiping out smaller religions in the name of God and even in the recent century doing the same some extent. And now when people criticise them, they say people should be respectful and they are peaceful… They had no respect for human life before.
Do jews get blamed for being involved In most international slave trades?
Do communist supporters admit to what there leaders have done in Cuba, South America, in Asia and other nations? Or do the make a lame excuses….
How many of these received 2 atomic bombs? Only the Germans have been made to pay for what they had done and the other europeans treated the normal german people Like scum for a long time.
Its either in the past for everyone and the normal people shouldnt have to feel shame for what there previous powers have done, or we can start equally judging everyone for there past mistakes. I dont see the others admitting to what they have done, maybe thats why the Japanese dont either.
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Kokoloko85
Member
I think they should leave the past in the past if everyone else is doing the same. Its not some Ive entangled with, maybe not the new generation, but there was a racist ideology in more than some Koreans in Korea. Of course they arent as invasive as other nations in history, but they should work on the relations with Japan as the new generation are
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Majormaxxx
Member
Oh ffs keep this political stuff off of the gaming section. Don't open this can of worms here
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I'm no history buff, but going by what I remember reading about Japan way back, their current image of super polite, well educated, suit and tie business people in skyscrapers is a relatively modern era thing. After they got their asses kicked in by the US in WWII it seemed they did a 180 and slowly became the image they are today.
Go back to the WWII era and they were total savages in wars doing Frankenstein torture to POWs, raiding China and shit like that.
They got a knack for not telling the whole story.
What Japanese history lessons leave out
Twentieth Century history is one of the most controversial subjects in the Japanese school curriculum, reports Mariko Oi.
www.bbc.com
Japan’s way of remembering World War II still infuriates its neighbours
Japan has never apologised for many of the things it did during World War II – and nor does it tell its schoolchildren about them.
theconversation.com
How Japan Took Control of Korea | HISTORY
Between 1910 and 1945, Japan worked to wipe out Korean culture, language and history.
www.history.com
On the plus side googling it, it looks like Koreans celebrate liberation from Japan.
National Liberation Day of Korea - Wikipedia
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Kokoloko85
Member
So just like the British and Americans who paint themselves as heroes lol…
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
라이즈 오브 더 로닌, 한국 출시 안한다
소니인터랙티브엔터테인먼트코리아가 일본 게임사 팀 닌자 신작 게임 '라이즈 오브 더 로닌'을 한국에서 발매하지 않겠다고 발표했다. 라이즈 오브 더 로닌은 19세기 에도 시대 일본을 배경으로 한 오픈월드 액션 어드벤처 게임이다. 닌자 가이덴, 인왕, 와룡: 폴른 다이너스티 등 특유의 액션으로 게이머들에게 재미를 선사한 팀 닌자의 신규 IP 게임인 만큼v.daum.net
But they can in North korea?
pasterpl
Member
Japan attacked and occupied multiple Asian nations, they committed multiple war crimes during these occupations, also they were allies with nazi Germany. I know it is history, but I am European, from one of the countries that suffered most during 2nd World War (nazis). It is still in memory of most people in my country. I have got very negative opinion about Japanese because of that.
lol leave the 'past the past' when a game is coming out that glorifies an ideology that caused an immense amount of suffering in their nation?
There are racist Jewish people out there, just as there are racists in every race. Should they 'leave the past in the past' if a game that glorifies nazism came out and made them the hero? How do you think black people would react if a game came out that glorifies segregationists?
There's a reason a lot of Asian nations have a sour attitude towards Japan. It's easy to say 'get over it' when it's not your history. Japan occupied Korea as recently as 1910-1945, so their relationship with Japan isn't merely 'ancient history'.
A lot of folks love Japan because they make anime, fun videogames, great vehicles, etc., but they've committed a ton of attrocities in the region. Simply telling the people on the receiving end to simply 'get over it' especially when Japan refuses to admit to and apologize for many of them is not the answer.
Kokoloko85
Member
Its not glorifying it, the game is about Japanese factions dealing with Shogun, the western influence and the emperor. And who to side with.
Its not the same as Nazism being the hero lmao.
Let me know when everyone boycotts American or western media Because of the atrocities they have done. Or people ban Christians, Muslims and Jews because of the millions and millions of murdered committed.
Let me know when woke people admit to the atrocities communists have committed.
Call me when Korea stops taking imports from China. Let me know when China admits to what they have and are doing…
Its not about loving Japan, its about who hasnt commited Crimes. Its funny how poeple just want to jump on Japan. When others have done far worse and never admit to it or even glorify it more than the Japanese.
Ever heard of the Bodo league massacre… Theres some Korean on Korean crime for you With plenty of denial and lies.
Moonjt9
Member
I live in Korea. My wife’s grandmother grew up under Japanese colonial rule. This shit isn’t like hundreds of years ago or something. There are millions alive still that actually experienced Japanese occupation. That actually experienced punishment for speaking their own language. That actually experienced getting their culture, and even their own names stamped out.
I think any ill-will Korean gamers have toward this game’s setting, plot, characters, and especially its creator’s words about its inspiration is ENTIRELY understandable.
I think any ill-will Korean gamers have toward this game’s setting, plot, characters, and especially its creator’s words about its inspiration is ENTIRELY understandable.
SoSola
Banned
Where are you getting millions from as if there's been 10s of millions of deaths from religious conflict? The only ideologies that have killed that many millions have been secular and political ideologies such Communism and Nazism for example.
Also why would Christians admit to something in the current century they haven't done? The only ideologies responsible for most current century genocides are Islam and Communism which is atheist in its dogma.
This "religion is responsible for most conflicts" claim is a myth btw. The Encyclopedia of Wars refuted this.
Counting “Religious Wars” in the Encyclopedia of Wars
Over the last few years I have noticed a relatively common online tactic in refuting the argument that “religion is the cause of most wars or violence” is to cite Charles Phillips and A…
apholt.com
So yeah, in comparison to secular ideology, Christianity is peaceful.
And no Jews don't get blamed for international slavery because most of it was initiated by Europeans who were the ones who started the Atlantic Slave Trade.
Difference is we won't cancel you, attack you or kill you. Not sure if we can say the same about atheists anymore as there's been several recent Church and school shootings carried out by atheists.
The Texas shooter 'preached atheism' and was an outcast, say former classmates
The shooting left at least 26 people dead
www.independent.co.uk
bender
What time is it?
Easy to say, hard to do, especially given Japan's not so distant relationship with Korea. I lived in Chinhae in the 90s for four years and to say there was no love lost for the Japanese would be an understatement.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Yes, mate. Nobody’s ever been cancelled, killed or attacked by religious people.
Do grow up. And stop with the preaching.
bender
What time is it?
Kaleinc
Banned
There is nothing complex. Everyone who hates Japan can choose not to buy, the rest can buy or not
phaedrus
Member
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
People try to make stuff black and white. Something or someone has a bad element associated with it. Burn it all to the ground. Not a speck remains. If anyone references it, burn them to the ground too. If you think someone is thinking about this thing or person, burn them to the ground, even though you might have been mistaken and they are just constipated.
WitchHunter
Banned
[prutruululumuhu censored]
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WitchHunter
Banned
Yeah, but it gave them a backbone. Now look what is happening in some other countries. If you see that your country is hopeless, just declare war against Japan, let them conquer your country, they gonna weed out the weaklings, gonna spend a few dozen years on top of you, but later on it will result in a better overall health of your society.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Imperial Japan certainly treated enemy combatants much, much worse than the Germans. The Japanese culture of shame meant that they saw being captured as the most disgusting thing you could let happen to yourself. Hence why they treated the allied POWs like animals. In contrast, allied soldiers were often pretty well treated by their German captors. Especially the officer caste.
The Nazi butchering of six million innocent non-combatant Jews in such a short space of time, by such a factory line procedure, is unparalleled though, by any other force in human history.
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consoul
Member
Came to post this. I have the Korean arcade board of Soul Calibur 1 which includes Arthur who is definitely from Britain and not a samurai at all.
The blonde hair wasn't fooling anyone, so they gave him an eyepatch as well. Outstanding move.
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The Fuzz damn you!
Gold Member
There’s a lot I could say at this point, but all of it would really just boil down to “lolwat?”
So… lolwat?