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[Alexander DeLarge]

We need another Deus Ex sequel starring Adam Jensen and I fear with the series potentially going back on hiatus and the sales performance of Mankind Divided, it might not happen. It'd be a damn shame if this didn't get the opportunity to play out as intended, especially since it seems Mankind Divided is the prologue to something much bigger (one of the major complaints against the game is that it feels like a prologue to a Deus Ex game). It's not a self-contained story and considering the way Mankind Divided ended, I think there's an obligation for Square Enix to keep going with it. They can end it after what more game, whatever, but Mankind Divided was written with a sequel in mind and essentially promised.

99.9999999999% of you probably didn't notice this, if there is a sequel I'm sure this will be a VERY IMPORTANT plot element going forward and a huge shock to anyone that didn't know about this. Proceed with caution.

Seriously, I'm warning you
https://imgur.com/a/5wsZO

Yeah..... This is why we need another Deus Ex.

 

[Mattakuevan]

Yeah, that was talked about a lot shortly after release. It provides context to the game that actually makes it kind of brilliant.

However, its obviously part 1 of a series. Too bad we may never see the rest.

 

[The Real Napsta]

How well this game sell?

 

[Truant]

What exactly am I looking at here?

 

[JayEH]

How well this game sell?

Well enough to get the series canned. RIP.

 

[Rellik]

What exactly am I looking at here?

Click the big blue button to load the rest of the images.

 

[Lunarwhale]

The game pretty heavily implied that there was a

Spoiler

clone angle

with some of the earlier conversations. A lot of things just don't add up without it, and it really should have been the focus of Mankind Divided rather than some ultimately inconsequential b-story about Adam stopping the bad guys of the week.

I hope we get another one to tie up these loose ends and bring us a step closer to how the Jensen series ties into the original Deus Ex, but it might not happen - and as much as Square's fuckery is to blame here, part of it is definitely on the creators for taking a chance by teasing a story they may never get to tell rather than just telling that story.

What a shame.

 

[Metal-Geo]

Yep, reading the original thread blew my mind.

 

[CertifiedFP]

Well enough to get the series canned. RIP.

Where did the Immersive Sim audience vanish off to? Human Revolution and Dishonored were both mega-hits, and then suddenly Mankind Divided and Dishonored 2 bombed.

 

[Mattakuevan]

The game pretty heavily implied that there was a

Spoiler

clone angle

with some of the earlier conversations. A lot of things just don't add up without it, and it really should have been the focus of Mankind Divided rather than some ultimately inconsequential b-story about Adam stopping the bad guys of the week.

I hope we get another one to tie up these loose ends and bring us a step closer to how the Jensen series ties into the original Deus Ex, but it might not happen - and as much as Square's fuckery is to blame here, part of it is definitely on the creators for taking a chance by teasing a story they may never get to tell rather than just telling that story.

What a shame.

Thing is, adam stopping bad guys of the week makes pefect sense if its only the first half of the game. Its like it got chopped in half.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

What exactly am I looking at here?

Spoiler

You're probably not playing the Adam Jensen from Human Revolution, explains the augs, his disappearance and the time period that is unaccounted for

 

[OverBlood 3]

Click the big blue button to load the rest of the images.

Oh the blue button, I was missing that.

Oh....OH!

I want a sequel like nothing else MD is so underrated.

 

[FLD]

What exactly am I looking at here?

The theory is that

Spoiler

the Adam Jensen in Mankind Divided isn't the real Adam Jensen.

And there's actually a lot of very convincing elements that support the theory, especially thematically.

The series better not be canned permanently because Square-Enix owe us a sequel after this incomplete story. I mean, no one forced them to split the game in half. Fans of the series shouldn't have to pay for their idiotic decision. Between this and the whole IO thing, I'm really starting to dislike them as a publisher. :/

 

[Nesther]

Wow, I completely missed that angle. Now I REALLY want a sequel, but I highly doubt we'll ever get one. Most likely a Deus Ex reboot in x amount of years I'd assume.

 

[Lime]

Where did the Immersive Sim audience vanish off to? Human Revolution and Dishonored were both mega-hits, and then suddenly Mankind Divided and Dishonored 2 bombed.

In MD's case, the branding of the game looked like the exact same game that came out five years ago. Charlequin had a good post about it but I'm on mobile right now.

 

[John Kowalski]

I like it better that this is a big unexplained mystery

 

[Glass]

I'm hoping Cyberpunk 2077 is a huge success and propels the cyberpunk setting to such a forefront , Deus Ex can come back in some form.

 

[Anung]

I imagine MGSV maybe forced them to drop this angle which is heavily hinted at throughout the game but never confirmed.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Where did the Immersive Sim audience vanish off to? Human Revolution and Dishonored were both mega-hits, and then suddenly Mankind Divided and Dishonored 2 bombed.

For Mankind Divided, I honestly think the game flew over many people's heads and the fact that it doesn't ease anyone into its gameplay or world hurt it in the long run. It's exactly the kind of game critics ask for, but don't really want to play in a sense.

For Dishonored 2, bad timing. It came out when everything was out. There was no real place for it to get the attention it deserved.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

That's why you don't sequel bait with something more interesting than the game you're making.

Where did the Immersive Sim audience vanish off to? Human Revolution and Dishonored were both mega-hits, and then suddenly Mankind Divided and Dishonored 2 bombed.

You have to excite that base with something more than "another immersive sim"; neither game did.

 

[paragonpro]

The theory is that

Spoiler

the Adam Jensen in Mankind Divided isn't the real Adam Jensen.

And there's actually a lot of very convincing elements that support the theory, especially thematically.

The series better not be canned permanently because Square-Enix owe us a sequel after this incomplete story. I mean, no one forced them to split the game in half. Fans of the series shouldn't have to pay for their idiotic decision. Between this and the whole IO thing, I'm really starting to dislike them as a publisher. :/

It seems like they have really tight reigns on the non japanese teams yet they let nomura and co take 5-10 years to make kingdom hearts and ff games...its ridiculous. They would be doa right now without these western teams

 

[Ninjimbo]

That's why you don't sequel bait with something more interesting than the game you're making.



You have to excite that base with something more than "another immersive sim"; neither game did.

Excite? Dishonored and Deus Ex have no peers. If you're a fan of the genre, what the hell are you playing that makes those two games unappealing?

 

[dankir]

:O

I haven't played the DLC from mankind divided is it good?

 

[CertifiedFP]

That's why you don't sequel bait with something more interesting than the game you're making.



You have to excite that base with something more than "another immersive sim"; neither game did.

Dishonored 2 had a second character with a whole other set of abilities, expanded nonlethal options, and the amazing Crack in the Slab was the level demoed on-stage at E3. Mankind Divided likewise added a set of new abilities that added expanded options and moved to a single interconnected Lite-Troidvania world.

I'm struggling to see how either fail to be more than "just another immersive sim".

And if they somehow are, then congratulations, this is why we can't have nice things.

Excite? Dishonored and Deus Ex have no peers. If you're a fan of the genre, what the hell are you playing that makes those two games unappealing?

Prey obviously.

Oh wait, the "audience" for the genre and System Shock decided to sit out on that one too.

Honestly I feel like the Immersive Sim genre is about to go through what JRPGs did in 7th Gen with their audience mysteriously disappearing for god knows what reason before they suddenly begged for JRPGs to be localized again. Maybe, MAYBE if we're lucky we'll have the kind of renaissance JRPGs have been having.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

In MD's case, the branding of the game looked like the exact same game that came out five years ago. Charlequin had a good post about it but I'm on mobile right now.

It struck me as odd that people complained so loudly and so often that HR felt too similar to the predecessor when there had been a 5 year gap and no other major games of the same style between the two. Compared to like, Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty which for years alternated between similar or identical settings one year to the next but people didn't seem to get burned out on it. Paradoxically it feels like had these games come out 2-2.5 years after the originals but been otherwise identical, they probably would have done much better. Striking while the iron is hot is probably a lot more important than being radically different from the predecessor.

 

[Nesther]

:O

I haven't played the DLC from mankind divided is it good?

Yeah, I've greatly enjoyed both. Especially A Criminal Past's setting and level design, it's top notch. They don't really advance the narrative, but they're still very entertaining experiences.

 

[Vic_Viper]

This is a huge reason why there needs to be another Deus Ex. SE seriously screwed this game over hard and it certainly didn't deserve it. Even the Hitman devs had to leave Square lol and it sold really well.

Hope they get another chance sooner than later.

 

[MCD250]

Whoa. I'd picked up on the

Spoiler

clone angle

from that one sidequest, but I'd no idea that the things the pictures show were in the game. That's crazy.

And yes, count me among those who are saddened by the fact that we probably won't be getting a sequel any time soon. I really liked Mankind Divided a lot.

 

[Zeus The Dino]

Is the game worth 15 on xbox? Hows performance

 

[jettpack]

For Mankind Divided, I honestly think the game flew over many people's heads and the fact that it doesn't ease anyone into its gameplay or world hurt it in the long run. It's exactly the kind of game critics ask for, but don't really want to play in a sense.

For Dishonored 2, bad timing. It came out when everything was out. There was no real place for it to get the attention it deserved.

Such a shame, too. Dishonored 2 was so good. I also think the reaction by some people in the press to MD was less than extatic. Such s shame that the game got chopped in half. I desperately want a modern deus ex game with the scope of the 2000 original. 3 hubs, lots of globe trotting, etc,

 

[CertifiedFP]

This is a huge reason why there needs to be another Deus Ex. SE seriously screwed this game over hard and it certainly didn't deserve it. Even the Hitman devs had to leave Square lol and it sold really well.

Hope they get another chance sooner than later.

Yeah honestly I think Square Enix clearly has a bit too much of a boner for Opportunity Cost. I mean, there's no way these games aren't at least making a profit with what sales they're getting unless Square Enix is massively overbudgeting them, and IO themselves have stated HITMAN'16 to be a success.

Never going to get over Tomb Raider'13 somehow being a "failure" with the multi-million sales it was reported to have. There's no way it could have possibly been in the red.

 

[jettpack]

Is the game worth 15 on xbox? Hows performance

Lol it's worth 60 dollars. 15 is a steal. Performance is fine,

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Is the game worth 15 on xbox? Hows performance

It was worth 60 on every platform imo. But there's a lot of folks who would disagree.

XBO is 900p with slightly more frame drops (mostly in non-interactive walk-and-talk cutscenes) than PS4 and longer load times. Still very playable. PC had some issues but is still by far the best platform if you have that option.

 

[jettpack]

Yeah, I've greatly enjoyed both. Especially A Criminal Past's setting and level design, it's top notch. They don't really advance the narrative, but they're still very entertaining experiences.

I haven't done this yet. Stoked to tho. 👍🏻👍🏻

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Dishonored 2 had a second character with a whole other set of abilities, expanded nonlethal options, and the amazing Crack in the Slab was the level demoed on-stage at E3.

Adding new abilities, and expanding the gameplay, is the bare minimum a sequel can do.
I'm struggling to see how that's supposed to impress anyone, honestly.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

I know Square Enix did everything wrong at every opportunity with Mankind Divided but I'm still shocked that Dishonored 2 (which was one of the worst PC ports in recent memory sold better). 720,000 versus 750,000 according to SteamSpy.

 

[CertifiedFP]

Adding new abilities, and expanding the gameplay, is the bare minimum a sequel can do.
I'm struggling to see how that's supposed to impress anyone, honestly.

You're right, they should have made something that had nothing to do with the original game. Just simply having a whole new full length campaign, a character that plays completely differently from Corvo, and heavily refined moment-to-moment gameplay with more possibilities is clearly not enough for making a sequel to an established game. They should have followed Final Fantasy XV's amazing example for how to make sequels.

Spoiler

Holy fucking shit, what unrealistic expectations do you have?

I know Square Enix did everything wrong at every opportunity with Mankind Divided but I'm still shocked that Dishonored 2 (which was one of the worst PC ports in recent memory sold better). 720,000 versus 750,000 according to SteamSpy.

LMAO. Yup, just as politics has entered the Misinformation Age, PC Gaming has entered the "Never my Rig's fault" age.

Dishonored 2 runs like butter on my PC... That said, I wish I could say the same for the RAM-devouring Mankind Divided and its legion of Memory Leaks.

 

[joe_zazen]

For Mankind Divided, I honestly think the game flew over many people's heads and the fact that it doesn't ease anyone into its gameplay or world hurt it in the long run. It's exactly the kind of game critics ask for, but don't really want to play in a sense.

For Dishonored 2, bad timing. It came out when everything was out. There was no real place for it to get the attention it deserved.

Idk. I think GaaS games are taking an ever increasing a bite out of single player, one and done kinds of games. There are millions more players in 2017 who play games like LoL, GTAV, Overwatch, The Division, Destiny, Minecraft, etc that offer hundred to thousands of hours of playtime. I just don't think the single player, one and done can compete in terms of value and excitement.

And if that isn't the case, then I dont understand why these types of games seem to lost their audience.

 

[Kalor]

I just realised the potential meaning behind the start screen after seeing it at the start of the op. Another game would be great. The story set up a bunch on interesting plot stuff with Eliza and the Jensen stuff and it'd be a shame if we never saw it resolved.

 

[Moff]

we need another deus ex because MD added next to nothing to the illuminati/MJ12 narrative around Bob Page. I don't really care about Adam Jensen, give me memorable conspiracy epicness. The next protagonist could be Gunther for all I care.

oh and because the gameplay was great and there are never enough immersive sims.

 

[CertifiedFP]

we need another deus ex because MD added next to nothing to the illuminati/MJ12 narrative around Bob Page. I don't really care about Adam Jensen, give me memorable conspiracy epicness. The next protagonist could be Gunther for all I care.

oh and because the gameplay was great and there are never enough immersive sims.

Still has the same problems if you're looking for a conspiracy thriller. Prequel-era, constrained by canon of the first game, forgone conclusions left and right.

It's better off to just officially declare Invisible War non-Canon, decide on a canon-ending for the first game, and make a sequel from there.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

LMAO. Yup, just as politics has entered the Misinformation Age, PC Gaming has entered the "Never my Rig's fault" age.

Dishonored 2 runs like butter on my PC... That said, I wish I could say the same for the RAM-devouring Mankind Divided and its legion of Memory Leaks.

Dishonored 2's poor performance was widely reported on to the point where the VOID engine has a bad reputation and that may have led to poor sales for Prey on PC.
http://www.pcgamer.com/why-dishonored-2-is-running-so-poorly/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...g-into-dishonored-2-pc-performance-complaints

I guess Mankind Divided had some problems too but anecdotally, I never heard that from anyone.
https://www.vg247.com/2016/08/24/th...kind-divided-may-be-running-terribly-for-you/

 

[Moff]

Still has the same problems if you're looking for a conspiracy thriller. Prequel-era, constrained by canon of the first game, forgone conclusions left and right.

It's better off to just officially declare Invisible War non-Canon, decide on a canon-ending for the first game, and make a sequel from there.

I don't think that's problematic at all, I think they could have solved it with just a few minutes of cutscenes/dialogue in MD to an at least mildly satisfying degree. they even had the opportunity to do so with that VR meeting room (don't remember the name) but they chose to do nothing with it. there are plenty of epic things happening in the pre DX1 era, that could be fleshed out in plenty of interesting ways, I don't see it as constrained.

 

[shiftplusone]

This franchise being dead is what you people deserve for calling human revolution "the first one"

 

[dr_rus]

I honestly don't know where this was supposed to go and why this affect the MD's story at all. Seems like some plot device which they never figured out how to include into the game themselves so it will most likely be silently dropped in a sequel - if there ever will be one.

Prey obviously.

Oh wait, the "audience" for the genre and System Shock decided to sit out on that one too.

Honestly I feel like the Immersive Sim genre is about to go through what JRPGs did in 7th Gen with their audience mysteriously disappearing for god knows what reason before they suddenly begged for JRPGs to be localized again. Maybe, MAYBE if we're lucky we'll have the kind of renaissance JRPGs have been having.

All immersive sims are selling better right now than they did back in 00's. They just aren't (and likely never will) selling enough to top the charts and become "a sensation". SE's expecting something different is the main reason why the franchise is "dead" again, not it's sales.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

All immersive sims are selling better right now than they did back in 00's. They just aren't (and likely never will) selling enough to top the charts and become "a sensation". SE's expecting something different is the main reason why the franchise is "dead" again, not it's sales.

Human Revolution and Dishonored 1 both sold far better than their sequels. They're never going to pull in CoD numbers sure, but there's no implicit reason they had to slide backwards in sales.

 

[Marcel]

I didn't miss this because there were threads all over the internet about it when it was first discovered. It didn't attract much attention because MD itself didn't attract much attention but they were out there.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

I made this thread months ago not long after release. It barely got any attention then.

I remember that, it's what made me go back and do the

Spoiler

bank vault

segment. Hopefully it'll get more traction this time since the franchise is at risk (and more people have played it now).

Human Revolution and Dishonored 1 both sold far better than their sequels. They're never going to pull in CoD numbers sure, but there's no implicit reason they had to slide backwards in sales.

Do we have any idea how much better those games did? Dishonored 1 in particular had a free weekend (and both had numerous sales for five bucks since they're significantly older).

 

[Marcel]

I remember that, it's what made me go back and do the

Spoiler

bank vault

segment. Hopefully it'll get more traction this time since the franchise is at risk (and more people have played it now).

Mankind Divided flopped and SE's strategy of a Deus Ex media universe is now on hiatus as a result. Nothing is getting more traction, it's over for the foreseeable future.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Idk. I think GaaS games are taking an ever increasing a bite out of single player, one and done kinds of games. There are millions more players in 2017 who play games like LoL, GTAV, Overwatch, The Division, Destiny, Minecraft, etc that offer hundred to thousands of hours of playtime. I just don't think the single player, one and done can compete in terms of value and excitement.

And if that isn't the case, then I dont understand why these types of games seem to lost their audience.

This is true as well. I don't know what kind of place these immersive sims have in the industry. They're mostly single player affairs that take awhile to get into. Most of the popular games people play are all about instant gratification and have gameplay hooks that someone can understand within minutes. Games like Dishonored and Deus Ex are the opposite where you're building up a character and experimenting with possibilities. It's more longform gratification if anything.

To get anything good out of them, it seems you have to spent a lot of time on design and that can take years of development and refinement and you have to make sure it meets the expectations of the audience in the production values. That's a lot of money to spend on what's ultimately a kinda niche genre.

Idk. Part of me thinks these series don't have a future in the AAA space which is sad because that space is desperately lacking in diversity.