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Sonic Forces Previews / Impressions Thread

Was the seriously the same team as Generations and this? I always considered it more of a spin-off.

Lost World was made by the Colours team with the same director, while another team worked on Generations. I think it may have been part of the team that made Unleashed.

The teams probably aren't static, but staff from both of Colours and Generations are working on Forces.
 
Lost World was made by the Colours team with the same director, while another team worked on Generations. I think it may have been part of the team that made Unleashed.

The teams probably aren't static, but staff from both of Colours and Generations are working on Forces.
The Colors team joined the Generations team after they were done with Colors. AFAIK there aren't really specific teams anymore.
 
Lots of scrapped prototypes then.

Also, bonus side-eye whenever Iizuka pretends to have anything to do with Sonic Mania.
That's probably right unless Forces has a ton of content as Generations has a measly 5 hours of unique content.
I imagine it's longer since the avatar stages are slower and a 3rd play style but I wonder if it has more levels
 

MrBadger

Member
That's probably right unless Forces has a ton of content as Generations has a measly 5 hours of unique content.
I imagine it's longer since the avatar stages are slower and a 3rd play style but I wonder if it has more levels

Based on what they've shown, I'm expecting a similar length to Colours. The levels all look really short but I bet there's more than 2 in a world

I mean, when HASN'T Mario Vs Sonic not being heavily one sided in favor of the plumber?

The first half of the 90's
 

Astral Dog

Member
Well I am more excited for Sonic Mania than I am for Mario Odyssey.

Sonic Mania is an event. It feels special. Odyssey is just gonna be another great Mario game. Those happen all the time. It's getting old.
What the hell. Odyssey is the first open Mario since Sunshine back in 2002 (?)
Was the seriously the same team as Generations and this? I always considered it more of a spin-off.
Lost World is 'mainline' SONIC BOOM is the spin off
 
The first half of the 90's
That was kinda by default though. Super Mario World was the only mainline Mario game that competed directly against Sonic, unless you count 1993's Super Mario All-Stars. Funny story, growing up I had no idea that the Mario trilogy + Lost Levels were 8-bit games because we had All-Stars + World.
 

MrBadger

Member
That was kinda by default though. Super Mario World was the only mainline Mario game that competed directly against Sonic, unless you count 1993's Super Mario All-Stars. Funny story, growing up I had no idea that the Mario trilogy + Lost Levels were 8-bit games because we had All-Stars + World.

A new character on a new system doesn't topple Nintendo's monopoly on home consoles "by default"

I want to see a comparison between this and Generations because to my untrained eyes they look nigh identical.

GameXplain did one here. The graphics in Generations actually look better to me but from Lost World onwards they started prioritising frame rate over visuals.
 

Supast4r

Junior Member
That was kinda by default though. Super Mario World was the only mainline Mario game that competed directly against Sonic, unless you count 1993's Super Mario All-Stars. Funny story, growing up I had no idea that the Mario trilogy + Lost Levels were 8-bit games because we had All-Stars + World.
Sonic plus the godlike marketing team known as sega of America gave nintendo a real fight back in the day.
 

Guess Who

Banned
The Colors team joined the Generations team after they were done with Colors. AFAIK there aren't really specific teams anymore.

There weren’t even then. There’s lots of shared assets between Colors and Generations - notice how a lot of Generations’s classic badnik designs appeared first in Colors.
 
I'm seriously starting to think that Daytime Unleashed, Colors, and Generations a series of lucky breaks for Sonic Team before they went back to being, well, Sonic Team.
 

Teknoman

Member
I'm seriously starting to think that Daytime Unleashed, Colors, and Generations a series of lucky breaks for Sonic Team before they went back to being, well, Sonic Team.

Seems that way imo. Well at least we're getting Sonic 4. I'll just keep replaying Mirage Saloon in my mind. Honestly, with the game being called Sonic Forces, and them not just rolling with a Generations 2 of sorts...kinda knew it would go south.
 
A new character on a new system doesn't topple Nintendo's monopoly on home consoles "by default"
Sonic plus the godlike marketing team known as sega of America gave nintendo a real fight back in the day.
Both true, but people always make it out to have been a direct competition between the two, when that wasn't exactly the case. Comparing classic Sonic and classic Mario head-to-head is kinda like comparing Jordan and Magic head-to-head: Sure, MJ won in '91, but Magic was 31 and the Showtime era was over. You gotta take context into account sometimes.

Anyway, back to Forces. I don't think Unleashed daytime, Colors, and Generations were flukes, because you can see the clear improvements to the boost style in each one. Forces may also turn out to be another improvement, but it seems like they're back to their old tricks of overreacting to complaints and overcompensating instead of making sure they've got the basics straight.
 

SimonM7

Member
I'm keeping this at arm's length because everything has been smashing my heart into pieces after Colours was a super high for me, so I don't know how they're approaching it, but the structure of this is probably the most important factor to me. I'd rather have anything but modern Sonic levels removed outright. Use those Colours design sensibilities to make multi-layered and replayable levels instead of trying to create padding with all these mandatory extra characters.

But if you NEED to put in a variation on treasure hunt or fishing or werewolfing or classic Sonic-ing just to hit that 10-15 hour span or whatever, pllllllease take a page from the gosh darn FIRST 3D Sonic game.

Sonic Adventure had the most extraneous garbage out of all of these games, but had the decency to chop it up and make engaging with it optional, and more importantly, gave you the power to choose when to engage with it.

Sonic Adventure 2 immediately made what I consider to STILL be the worst decision 3D Sonics ever made, which is forced all those jarring gameplay variations on you. A lot of people love SA2 and I genuinely do respect that, but to me it's probably one of the most miserable times I've had with these Sonic games, because it would not just let me play the game I wanted to play at a given time.

Even Sonic 06 with its smorgasbord of problems let you be like "eff this Silver guy for now, I'm just gonna play these Sonic bits". I finished Sonic 06 every way from sunday, eventually, because they didn't shove Silver bits in my face when I was in a Sonic state of mind. Which... a lot of the time involved breathing exercises when Havok physics randomly threw crap at me.

I think I would hold Unleashed in fairly high regard if I could just deal with the Werehog stuff when I was mentally prepared for it.

Because to be absolutely truthful, there are very few characters/gameplay types in *any* of the 3D Sonic games that I thought were so bad I couldn't even get through them. Down to fishing with Big - which was like this wonky, largely inoffensive version of fishing in most non-fishing games.

So it's not really so much that I hate playing as Classic Sonic in Gens, as much as it is about being jerked away from being in the modern Sonic groove - and vice versa.

Colours was a shining beacon of hope because it showed that Sega ABSOLUTELY know how to make one of these games content rich without having you leap between two wildly different speeds/modes of play, and that's why anything less than that feels like such a travesty to me now. But if they let me choose when to deal with these three, essentially different games they've shoved into a tortilla bread and called a coherent game, I'll deal somehow.

It's unfortunate that Gens showed that their multi-character approach makes them comfortable with simplifying the modern Sonic levels to merely encompass a number of set routes, but I've honestly come to terms with the notion that the Colours template is never coming back, anyway.
 
The graphics in Generations actually look better to me but from Lost World onwards they started prioritising frame rate over visuals.
They made the right choice. I wish every developer did this. I think Forces on consoles will be a far more enjoyable gameplay experience than Generations on consoles, even if it ends up comparing poorly to Generations on PC.
 
Generations and Colors are from two different teams, I believe, and Colors team went on to do Lost World. Anyway, this was the previous Sonic Team project:

runners2.png

Runners started off on the right foot and then slowly changed for the worst before closing, sega hardly know what they are doing with sonic games lately.
 

pixelation

Member
A new character on a new system doesn't topple Nintendo's monopoly on home consoles "by default"


GameXplain did one here. The graphics in Generations actually look better to me but from Lost World onwards they started prioritising frame rate over visuals.

Generations looks better to me as well, i prefer visuals over FPS. So i don't like the choice they seem to be making... give me pretty.
 
I'm keeping this at arm's length because everything has been smashing my heart into pieces after Colours was a super high for me, so I don't know how they're approaching it, but the structure of this is probably the most important factor to me. I'd rather have anything but modern Sonic levels removed outright. Use those Colours design sensibilities to make multi-layered and replayable levels instead of trying to create padding with all these mandatory extra characters.

But if you NEED to put in a variation on treasure hunt or fishing or werewolfing or classic Sonic-ing just to hit that 10-15 hour span or whatever, pllllllease take a page from the gosh darn FIRST 3D Sonic game.

Sonic Adventure had the most extraneous garbage out of all of these games, but had the decency to chop it up and make engaging with it optional, and more importantly, gave you the power to choose when to engage with it.

Sonic Adventure 2 immediately made what I consider to STILL be the worst decision 3D Sonics ever made, which is forced all those jarring gameplay variations on you. A lot of people love SA2 and I genuinely do respect that, but to me it's probably one of the most miserable times I've had with these Sonic games, because it would not just let me play the game I wanted to play at a given time.

Even Sonic 06 with its smorgasbord of problems let you be like "eff this Silver guy for now, I'm just gonna play these Sonic bits". I finished Sonic 06 every way from sunday, eventually, because they didn't shove Silver bits in my face when I was in a Sonic state of mind. Which... a lot of the time involved breathing exercises when Havok physics randomly threw crap at me.

I think I would hold Unleashed in fairly high regard if I could just deal with the Werehog stuff when I was mentally prepared for it.

Because to be absolutely truthful, there are very few characters/gameplay types in *any* of the 3D Sonic games that I thought were so bad I couldn't even get through them. Down to fishing with Big - which was like this wonky, largely inoffensive version of fishing in most non-fishing games.

So it's not really so much that I hate playing as Classic Sonic in Gens, as much as it is about being jerked away from being in the modern Sonic groove - and vice versa.

Colours was a shining beacon of hope because it showed that Sega ABSOLUTELY know how to make one of these games content rich without having you leap between two wildly different speeds/modes of play, and that's why anything less than that feels like such a travesty to me now. But if they let me choose when to deal with these three, essentially different games they've shoved into a tortilla bread and called a coherent game, I'll deal somehow.

It's unfortunate that Gens showed that their multi-character approach makes them comfortable with simplifying the modern Sonic levels to merely encompass a number of set routes, but I've honestly come to terms with the notion that the Colours template is never coming back, anyway.

Speaking for myself, I'm not really a fan of the attempts at other added playstyles myself (the best I could say for any of them is that I do think Tails, Knuckles, and Gamma in SA1 were mostly inoffensive, but I would still much prefer other playable characters to handled a la Sonic 3&K or Mario 3D World); but I can largely sympathize with your frustrations on Sonic Team always splitting up the gameplay focus. Kinda incredible to think that outside Colors, the only other mainline 3D games that focused on playstyle was Sonic Heroes. (Arguments can be made that Shadow the Hedgehog and the Storybook games do as well, but they're all spinoffs, and aren't exactly top-notch quality in of themselves.)

Even then, though, I do think Colors does have its own share of heavy flaws with its approach. I honestly have a hard time considering Colors a 3D game given how a large bulk of it is in 2D as it is. The game also gives a larger focus on the Wisps powerups than the boost gameplay itself--and while the Wisps aren't as out there as, say, Werehog brawling or a third-person shooter; I do feel the Wisps when used do significantly alter the gameplay focus when you do use them. They're not like traditional powerups, like with Sonic's shields in Sonic 3&K or Mario's suits; they feel more like offbeat minigames rather than an extension of Sonic's moveset.

I do actually think that it's possible to make a Sonic game purely made of Boost levels...but not as a 3D platformer. I believe Unleashed is still the strongest boost game in terms of level design, due to how I feel the platforming segments (in both 2D and 3D) in later titles largely break up the flow of constant speed of the boost gameplay. If they retooled the Boost gameplay and levels into a racing series they could then definitely get the job done in my opinion. Then they wouldn't have to worry about trying to pad out the game with extraneous nonsense or have to make every track for a Boost game literally miles long. Meanwhile they can also get back to making a more traditional 3D Sonic game in the vein of Adventure, Lost World, or some other third thing.

Going by how we're literally seeing more and more detail get added to the stages as time goes by, and how weirdly small Modern Sonic's first stage is, it seems more like the game only entered actual production starting from last year.
Especially with this slide from the Japanese 25th anniversary event...
Sonic-2017.jpg

...supposedly stating that "Sonic Project 2017 begins development" (Granted, anyone that can read this will have a clearer translation) Yipes.

Missed this, but if this is true....wow, that certainly explains almost everything we've seen from this game so far.
 

Sami+

Member
Going by how we're literally seeing more and more detail get added to the stages as time goes by, and how weirdly small Modern Sonic's first stage is, it seems more like the game only entered actual production starting from last year.
Especially with this slide from the Japanese 25th anniversary event…
Sonic-2017.jpg

…supposedly stating that "Sonic Project 2017 begins development" (Granted, anyone that can read this will have a clearer translation) Yipes.

jesus wtf have they been doing all these years
 

BaconHat

Member
Going by how we're literally seeing more and more detail get added to the stages as time goes by, and how weirdly small Modern Sonic's first stage is, it seems more like the game only entered actual production starting from last year.
Especially with this slide from the Japanese 25th anniversary event…
Sonic-2017.jpg

…supposedly stating that "Sonic Project 2017 begins development" (Granted, anyone that can read this will have a clearer translation) Yipes.


I really hope not, considering that would mean that Sega has not yet learned not to rush a sonic game release, considering how many times this has ended up badly for the franchise in the past.
 
Lots of scrapped prototypes then.
I've heard through the grapevine this was actually the case. The CG reveal trailer was almost all they had when announced.

Not that it would have been hard to guess, Sonic Team at full scale should have had a much larger amount of work finished since the last big mainline Sonic (Generations).
 

Axass

Member
So... it's crap? You don't say!

Sega should give Sonic to external devs, because it's super duper clear at this point that the Sonic Team doesn't know how to handle it anymore.
 

Pizza

Member
I'm at work so I can't drop the link, but my opinion of Forces changed a bit when I saw someone do an S Rank run of the modern sonic demo level. You can blaaaast through it if you have good timing, so I actually have some high hopes for this game.

I want to see that shadow fight.
 

Parfait

Member
I'm at work so I can't drop the link, but my opinion of Forces changed a bit when I saw someone do an S Rank run of the modern sonic demo level. You can blaaaast through it if you have good timing, so I actually have some high hopes for this game.

I want to see that shadow fight.

While yall went for the useless S rank, I'd go for lowest time like a tru Sonic Playa

Really, getting S-rank is piss easy. Get a lot of rings and keep em, get an average time. The real gameplay is speedrunning, which is why the modern games tend to keep the more technical moves and even have them unlocked from the start.


As for the game itself I'm interested. It's gonna be a boost game, which I love, with Sonic Adventure 2/Shadow the Hedgehog/2006 story and I want to witness every last hilarious moment of it.

So... it's crap? You don't say!

Sega should give Sonic to external devs, because it's super duper clear at this point that the Sonic Team doesn't know how to handle it anymore.

Yeah, I remember those great games such as Sonic Boom and Sonic and the Lost Brotherhood or whatever it was called back on the DS, as well as Sonic 4. Truly these were momentous and classical games of their time.
 

Blue-kun

Member
Yeah, I remember those great games such as Sonic Boom and Sonic and the Lost Brotherhood or whatever it was called back on the DS, as well as Sonic 4. Truly these were momentous and classical games of their time.

You don't get it though, clearly SEGA has only given the license to crap companies! What they really must do is give it TO NINTENDO! Only Nintendo can save us now and produce a decent Sonic game in 3D!

/s

Seriously though, whenever people say that it's always accompanied by a post that reads like SEGA's never been able to make a good Sonic game, when, in fact, the series has seen very decent games as of late if you exclude the outsourced Boom stuff. Even Lost World, which is not great by any stretch of the imagination, still had promise and could become something really nice if they go back to that gameplay-style and refine it.
 

Parfait

Member
You don't get it though, clearly SEGA has only given the license to crap companies! What they really must do is give it TO NINTENDO! Only Nintendo can save us now and produce a decent Sonic game in 3D!

/s

Seriously though, whenever people say that it's always accompanied by a post that reads like SEGA's never been able to make a good Sonic game, when, in fact, the series has seen very decent games as of late if you exclude the outsourced Boom stuff. Even Lost World, which is not great by any stretch of the imagination, still had promise and could become something really nice if they go back to that gameplay-style and refine it.

Yeah, Lost World had a lot of promise and I think they could take that and turn it up to 11 to get a REALLY solid gameplay style out of it. I love boost but that game always looked interesting, even if it turned out to... not.
 
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