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[Zen]

QFT. Time to bury the hedgehog, the fox & the echidna & move on......

Yeah it's not like he isn't still selling millions of units or anything.

Unless you're speaking from a purely personal perspective.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Yeah it's not like he isn't still selling millions of units or anything.

Aside from the Olympic games, Sonic hasn't sold millionS in a very, very long time. Unleashed did alright but Black Knight and 2006 both sold under a million worldwide, Secret Rings I think also is under a million worldwide, and while Rush did well, Rush Adventure also fell flat. I think Rush may have been the last million-selling Sonic game and before that Heroes.

The last multi-million seller was, I think Sonic Adventure 2.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Yeah it's not like he isn't still selling millions of units or anything.

Unless you're speaking from a purely personal perspective.

:lol Given the context of their posts, what would be the alternative?

 

[Zen]

Aside from the Olympic games, Sonic hasn't sold millionS in a very, very long time. Unleashed did alright but Black Knight and 2006 both sold under a million worldwide, Secret Rings I think also is under a million worldwide, and while Rush did well, Rush Adventure also fell flat. I think Rush may have been the last million-selling Sonic game and before that Heroes.

The last multi-million seller was, I think Sonic Adventure 2.

Sonic Unleashed broke 2.5 Million over a year ago, although I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't reached 3 million WW. I would be happy if it has, though.
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/japanese/pdf/release/200903_tanshin_20090513_final.pdf#page=7

Although aside from Sonic 1 and 2, Sonic has always been around 1-2 million range, hasn't it?

Secret Rings broke 1.2 million in September 08.

I'm pretty sure that Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was a Multi Million... I can't find the sales data though.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Sonic Unleashed broke 2.5 Million some time ago, although I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't reached 3 million WW.
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/japanese/pdf/release/200903_tanshin_20090513_final.pdf#page=7

Although aside from Sonic 1 and 2, Sonic has always been around 1-2 million range, hasn't it?

Secret Rings Also broke 1 million.

Sonic's kind of knee-capped as far as worldwide goes because he hasn't been popular in Japan for quite a while.

At any rate, he's not the surefire bank he was ten years ago. The only reason things like Unleashed and Sonic 4 are coming about is because of that.

 

[Zen]

Though Unleashed was a Multi Million seller, and that was a year ago.

Thankfully the sales of bad Sonic games have been a wake up call for Sega. Silver linings I guess. As much fun as it is to just blame Sonic Team, I imagine that the team could have fared much better without such suffocating corporate leadership.

EDIT: Was sonic ever popular in Japan? I guess popular as in 200k sales or something, but I seem to remember that the bulk of his sales come from Europe and America.

 

[Suzuki Yu]

Aside from the Olympic games, Sonic hasn't sold millionS in a very, very long time. Unleashed did alright but Black Knight and 2006 both sold under a million worldwide, Secret Rings I think also is under a million worldwide, and while Rush did well, Rush Adventure also fell flat. I think Rush may have been the last million-selling Sonic game and before that Heroes.

The last multi-million seller was, I think Sonic Adventure 2.

Unleashed , Secret Rings , Rush all of those sold over million mark and all of them well deserve it , IMO unleashed deserve more than just that .

sonic heroes was the last game that sold multi-million copies not adventure 2 ( if i remember well it was about 5 million copies in total )

 

[Zen]

Unleashed , Secret Rings , Rush all of those sold over million mark and all of them well deserve it , IMO unleashed deserve more than just that .

sonic heroes was the last game that sold multi-million copies not adventure 2

RE Sonic Heroes: An offline edge article apparently has it around an amazing 5-6 million, but I find that hard to believe! Although it was Sonics first mainline multiplatform entry after the demise of the Dreamcast, imagine what a good game could have sold. :lol

 

[RagnarokX]

Thankfully the sales of bad Sonic games have been a wake up call for Sega. Silver linings I guess. As much fun as it is to just blame Sonic Team, I imagine that the team could have fared much better without such suffocating corporate leadership.

EDIT: Was sonic ever popular in Japan? I guess popular as in 200k sales or something, but I seem to remember that the bulk of his sales come from Europe and America.

I'm not sure how much of a wake up call they've been. They finally decide to make a new classic Sonic, except not classic at all beyond aesthetics and relegated to a cheap downloadable game while promising to still be hard at work on real 3D Sonics.

Sega's big problem back then and even now is that it's too concerned with competition and trends.

 

[Ten-Song]

Thankfully the sales of bad Sonic games have been a wake up call for Sega.

Yeah, they clearly got the message, and now they're dedicated to releasing a half assed episodic game to a far more narrow market. That'll put a stop to that sales slump!

 

[Suzuki Yu]

RE Sonic Heroes: An offline edge article apparently has it around an amazing 5-6 million, but I find that hard to believe! Although it was Sonics first mainline multiplatform entry after the demise of the Dreamcast, imagine what a good game could have sold. :lol

i think that article was right .

 

[Zen]

Yeah, they clearly got the message, and now they're dedicated to releasing a half assed episodic game to a far more narrow market. That'll put a stop to that sales slump!

I guess I'm going to have to be tared and feathered for pointing out to you that I think the new Sonic game looks fun, and I enjoyed Unleashed. :lol

Be gentle with me, I skipped like every Sonic game post Adventure 2 so I'm not nearly as scarred as others

 

[Suzuki Yu]

I guess I'm going to have to be tared and feathered for pointing out to you that I think the new Sonic game looks fun, and I enjoyed Unleashed. :lol

Be gentle with me, I skipped like every Sonic game post Adventure 2 so I'm not nearly as scarred as others

have you tried secret rings ?

 

[Zen]

have you tried secret rings ?

Saying "I skipped every Sonic game" means I skipped every new console Sonic game and then some, It's easier than going into the detail below:

Full disclosure:

I tried Secret Rings but I found the controls to be inaccurate and the way in which you controlled Sonic himself was just bleh to me. I know that there are people who like it though, maybe I should try tracking it down for cheap?

I actually bought Rush cheap and got some decent enjoyment out of it, it's no mainline 2D Sonic, but it tries to do its own thing and doesn't really fail at that. I enjoyed it and respected that they were trying to do something different.

I think this game, Sonic 4, seems heads and shoulders better than Advance/Advance 2, or anything post Adventure 2 (although Unleashed is its own thing to me).

 

[WasteLand Soldier]

jun senoue is really doing the music? WTF how the mighty have fallen.

 

[RobbieNick]

I've moved on to acceptance. This game is what it is, and really... the franchise is what it is at this point - Which is to say that it's basically Crash Bandicoot.

Woah! Hey now. Let's not say things we can't take back. Crash Bandicoot is on a whole different level of suck. Him and Spyro are down at the bottom of the mascot barrel right now.

What I don't understand is that if he's not that popular in Japan anymore, why not just take development outside of Japan and let U.S./Euro fans have a shot at making a great Sonic game. (Cuz lets be honest, US/Euro gaming development is improving by leaps and bounds where Japan seems to be in a rut.)

 

[Zen]

Yeah Sonic has a rung to go before he reaches that level, and really, Sonic 4 certainly looks like a step up from previous efforts. Heck, if we're looking at 3D Sonic, Unleashed is a huge step up from anything post Adventure 2.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I thought Secret Rings was actually a good direction for the series, mechanically.

Shame about Black Knight.

 

[Zen]

I thought Secret Rings was actually a good direction for the series, mechanically.

Shame about Black Knight.

What did Black Knight do so differently?

 

[Ten-Song]

Woah! Hey now. Let's not say things we can't take back. Crash Bandicoot is on a whole different level of suck. Him and Spyro are down at the bottom of the mascot barrel right now.

I'd actually say that the Crash series based on its latest titles, has been treated with far more respect than Sonic has lately. Which is really amusing when you consider that Activision owns the Crash IP now.

 

[remz]

I thought Secret Rings was actually a good direction for the series, mechanically.

Shame about Black Knight.

Hmmm me too, SR was actually pretty entertaining

 

[Deleted member 30609]

What did Black Knight do so differently?

I actually haven't played it. I heard universally bad things.

It seems like they expanded on the worst bits of Secret Rings.

A mix of Secret Rings' basic gameplay style, Sonic Unleashed's day-time level polish and perhaps an interesting hub-world-alike or something of the sort for pacing purposes could be a pretty cool game.

 

[RobbieNick]

What did Black Knight do so differently?

In Secret Rings, You controlled Sonic kinda like a Car where you just moved him back and fourth, used a button to jump and shoved the Wiimote forward for homing attack. It's probably the onlky time that homing attack felt really good to me.

Black Kight used the same camera position and Auto running, but you used the joystick to move Sonic left and right and swung the wiimote to swing the sword. Outside of the Dragon Cave, the level design was very bland.

I used to defend that game at first but once I beat it, I just couldn't go back to play the new levels. That's when I said to myself, "Why am I defending this shit?" I ended up doing a complete 180 on the boards.

That said, I hope they try another one. I don't mind them experimenting on this spin-off series of games if they end up finding some innovation that works.

A mix of Secret Rings' basic gameplay style, Sonic Unleashed's day-time level polish and perhaps an interesting hub-world-alike or something of the sort for pacing purposes could be a pretty cool game

There's no hub-world. Just a map to choose levels. "Sigh!" Even after you get the ability to play as other characters, there's just something about that game that drags and isn't fun.

Surprisingly, both games had the most realistic speed for Sonic in quite awhile. He always trotted out slow, then got faster and faster.

 

[Brashnir]

Woah! Hey now. Let's not say things we can't take back. Crash Bandicoot is on a whole different level of suck. Him and Spyro are down at the bottom of the mascot barrel right now.

Sonic '06 was worse than any Crash Bandicoot game, by a wide, wide margin, and Unleashed wasn't any better than Mind over Mutant.

 

[RobbieNick]

Sonic '06 was worse than any Crash Bandicoot game,

True.

by a wide, wide margin, and Unleashed wasn't any better than Mind over Mutant.

Even the Werehog levels were better than Mind over Mutant.

 

[Ten-Song]

Even the Werehog levels were better than Mind over Mutant.

No. The manhog levels aren't even as good as Dante's Inferno which itself is complete and utter dogshit, which means it's not even as fun to play as a shitty imitator of a shitty imitator. I would play a thousand generic middling titles of the platformer or shooter variety before having to choke down another horrible attempt at cloning God of War.

 

[Pachael]

That's from something like ~130 issues back, when there wasn't much concern over the artists staying on model because the book was selling regardless. There eventually came a point where both art and writing got so catastrophically out of control that people were abandoning the series in droves.

That does sound like the Sonic game trajectory to now (so far). Maybe not the abandoning the series in droves - Shadow the Hedgehog sold >1 million worldwide, so peeps love Shadow

Pretty much this now:

Repeating this.

I may rag on the game, but I think it'll sell pretty good on the iPad/iPhone.

 

[Itchy//Tasty]

OMG guys. :lol I was going to say needs more minecart, and then I saw the minecart. Nice job!

 

[Zen]

I may rag on the game, but I think it'll sell pretty good on the iPad/iPhone.

Since it's all 2D sprites anyway I kind of wish they'd also have a PSP version.

 

[Blueblur1]

In my opinion, Secret Rings is trash.

 

[Lijik]

Even the Werehog levels were better than Mind over Mutant.

Carival of Stupid indeed :lol

 

[onken]

I'd say Sega should just try and make a new Sonic Jam but I know they'd probably fuck that up somehow too. Man I loved Sonic Jam.

 

[WillyFive]

I'd say Sega should just try and make a new Sonic Jam but I know they'd probably $%#^ that up somehow too. Man I loved Sonic Jam.

They did.

 

[Diablohead]

http://static.gamecrazy.com/images/games/boxart/15001.jpg[IMG]

They did.[/QUOTE]
That has little to no extras apart from shabby rom emulation, sonic jam at least had a 3D hub world with some cool bonuses.

 

[Big One]

Yeah I'd kill for some true, no-game-missing Sonic collection with all the pre-Adventure games. Hell Adventure 1 and 2 are old enough to get packaged in one of those collections too.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Yeah I'd kill for some true, no-game-missing Sonic collection with all the pre-Adventure games. Hell Adventure 1 and 2 are old enough to get packaged in one of those collections too.

There was that rumor going around from that leaked Sony memo a few months ago that either Sony or Sega was pushing for a all-encompassing Sonic game collection on PS3. It was pitched as "Every Sonic Game" on one blu-ray, and it sounded like at the very least it would be everything up to the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era. The note suggested a retail price of $99.

I can't imagine that idea got very far, though. The amount of emulation and porting required for something like that would be pretty serious.

 

[PantherAttacks]

The only way to play is to unite the two. That is the real Sonic 3. The best 2D platformer going.

Sonic 1 is the only true 2D platformer. Once they added the spin dash, it let you reach full speed anywhere and ruined the momentum based gameplay.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Sonic 1 is the only true 2D platformer. Once they added the spin dash, it let you reach full speed anywhere and ruined the momentum based gameplay.

I... don't think that actually disqualifies the game from being a 2D platformer. It makes it different from Sonic 1, but I believe you still move along a 2D plane and navigate platforms to reach a goal.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Sonic 1 is the only true 2D platformer. Once they added the spin dash, it let you reach full speed anywhere and ruined the momentum based gameplay.

Yeah, but you had to stop moving to use the spindash. Breaking your momentum is always the worst part of a Sonic game, and using the spindash forced you to willingly break your own momentum to use it. As a tool, it lets you regain your momentum again without such a harsh penalty on being stopped.

 

[Suzuki Yu]

What did Black Knight do so differently?

black knight was absolutely horrible game ( one of the worst in the series )
because they have changed the direction of the game , secret rings was a hardcore game with some series challenges , black knight was only playable for children with all the waggling system shit . it was a massive disappointed indeed .
but i advise you to give secret rings a serious shot . that game was awesome and unique sonic game . it felt like panzer dragoon of sonic , well the director worked before in panzer series .

 

[riceandbeans]

black knight was absolutely horrible game ( one of the worst in the series )
because they have changed the direction of the game , secret rings was a hardcore game with some series challenges , black knight was only playable for children with all the waggling system shit . it was a massive disappointed indeed .
but i advise you to give secret rings a series shot . that game was awesome and unique sonic game . it felt like panzer dragoon of sonic , well the director worked before in panzer series .

Gotta disagree with you there, . To me, Secret Rings is one of the worst Sonic games ever, so bad that I couldn't even finish it. The awful tilt controls, backing up to just to get some stupid fucking orb, the racing, the annoying level design... I hated everything about it. Not to mention the repetitive missions, it all just got monotonous. The game just wasn't fun. I had a better time with Sonic 06.

 

[Pappasman]

Sonic 1 is the only true 2D platformer. Once they added the spin dash, it let you reach full speed anywhere and ruined the momentum based gameplay.

I think the spin dash was the best thing to happen to sonic. Its why I prefer 2 over 1.

 

[jetsetfluken]

[image of Sonic Classic Collection DS]

They did.

Not exactly. Those ports are nothing to write home about. Slowdown, weird/off sound effects, watered down audio and visuals, small screen, etc.

Sonic Jam took effort to make. It came out in a time where these "classic collections" weren't rampant. There was a vibrant and nice 3D hub world, and there was chock full of little extras and things to read on the history of Sonic. But the 3D hub world really made it feel like a product in itself, not a thrown together collections of ROMs that don't play as well as the original hardware does.

Also, does anyone find it to be the "cherry on top" that they used green-eyed modern Sonic design for the Sonic Classic Collection DS cover? :lol

 

[jetsetfluken]

I can't imagine that idea got very far, though. The amount of emulation and porting required for something like that would be pretty serious.

Indeed. Which is the reason we see so few Saturn and Dreamcast games (especially Saturn) being put on the PSN/XBLA or retail disc collections.

Developers (and especially the lazy ones that are outsourced to do these port collections, like Backbone) will NOT do the extra work to figure out how to port something beyond simple ROMs from the 16 bit era.

 

[RagnarokX]

Also, does anyone find it to be the "cherry on top" that they used green-eyed modern Sonic design for the Sonic Classic Collection DS cover? :lol

Heh, they did that with Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Gems Collection too (though they tried to make him look more retro in Sonic Gems).

Sonic Mega Collection has some nice extras. I love having the manuals in virtual form on the disc.

 

[Suzuki Yu]

Gotta disagree with you there, . To me, Secret Rings is one of the worst Sonic games ever, so bad that I couldn't even finish it. The awful tilt controls, backing up to just to get some stupid fucking orb, the racing, the annoying level design... I hated everything about it. Not to mention the repetitive missions, it all just got monotonous. The game just wasn't fun. I had a better time with Sonic 06.

sonic 06 better than SR ?!
awful tilt controls ?!


i think the control in this game was brilliant and simple even the homing attack was really satisfying in the game , if there is some (small) issues it is because of the wii mote accuracy not the control itself .

level design was great and challenging , it was addictive to me .
i like the rings leveling system , i like the crazy music and overall Arabian settings ... it was unique and great sonic game in its own way .

 

[jetsetfluken]

Heh, they did that with Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Gems Collection too (though they tried to make him look more retro in Sonic Gems).

Sonic Mega Collection has some nice extras. I love having the manuals in virtual form on the disc.

Mega Collection and Gems were pretty solid collections when it came to the emulation and the little extras inside. Of course doesn't equal the unique qualities of Jam, but solid nonetheless. Some very nice original composed menu music tracks for them too, smooth menus.

Probably because BACKBONE didn't do them.

 

[RobbieNick]

Spin Dash ruined platforming, Spindash is awesome, Secret Rings sucks, Secret Rings is great.

No wonder Sega doesn't know what we want. We can never agree on anything.:lol

I love the spindash myself. I have a hard time going back to Sonic 1 without it.

 

[Mael]

sonic 06 better than SR ?!

This is where we know the guy saying this is full of Sonic 06

 

[Jocchan]

Spin Dash ruined platforming, Spindash is awesome, Secret Rings sucks, Secret Rings is great.

No wonder Sega doesn't know what we want. We can never agree on anything.:lol

Sega should NEVER listen to the fans.
They hire game designers for a reason.
Well, except Iizuka.