Tizoc
Member
Yup.
-
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
Yup.
Outside of the Classic, Modern, Olympic and occasional racing game, I kinda miss Sega trying different things with their Sonic world. Sonic Spinball was a neat idea, Tails Adventure / Skypatrol are kind of interesting, and Sonic Battle / Pinball Party were pretty neat.
I kind of like that Kirby's going through some weirdness again, like Blowout Blast and Kirby Clash, a little bit like the Pinball Land and Block Ball.
Might turn this into a standard topic as well, but what genres and styles do you think the Sonic world could get into? Not specifically Sonic, but any character. Maybe something that fits within the smaller $20 downloadable game or mobile title.
I think I'd be keen to see something akin to Spinball again, but using the Mania engine. Big pinball levels using Sonic physics.
I kind of like that Kirby's going through some weirdness again, like Blowout Blast and Kirby Clash, a little bit like the Pinball Land and Block Ball.
Might turn this into a standard topic as well, but what genres and styles do you think the Sonic world could get into? Not specifically Sonic, but any character. Maybe something that fits within the smaller $20 downloadable game or mobile title.
I think I'd be keen to see something akin to Spinball again, but using the Mania engine. Big pinball levels using Sonic physics.
Tizoc
Member
Glitched isn't how I normally play the games, I just play them straight, so I'm always intereste din seeing how the game would play following the normal rules.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Sonic 06 is buggy and shitty and bad but at least it's proven fun to laugh at for being so dumb
Shadow the Hedgehog is soul-crushingly tedious. It's all of Sonic Team's "what if we took 2 hours of content and made it last 8 hours" bloated out to an extreme.
The game has a branching storyline, right. You can finish most levels either by being "good," "neutral" or "evil." Good and Evil usually have specific objectives attached to them and instead of it being anything logical or interesting it's all shitty grindy stuff like
KILL 40 GUN SOLDIERS
DESTROY 8 ALIEN BATTLESHIPS
DEFUSE 10 BOMBS
COLLECT 200 RINGS
It is basically an entire game made from the Team Chaotix side of Sonic Heroes but instead of there only being 8 levels, there's 22. Almost all of them are ugly, boxy, and poorly designed. Sometimes, you'll reach 39/40 GUN Soldiers and not be able to find the last one because they stuck him in a random corner, so you comb back and forth looking for him for an hour in an empty level full of stuff you've already triggered.
Or maybe while looking for the last GUN Soldier, you accidentally find and kill the 40/40th Alien soldier because you're bored and there's nothing else to do in this stage. Whoops! You just finished the "hero" mission and sent yourself to the wrong level. That hour of work to find the final GUN Soldier just got flushed right down the toilet. Hope you like playing the first level, Westopolis, yet again.
Oh and by the way? The game works against you. Doing "good" or "evil" deeds will either fill up your hero or darkness meter, and once it's full you get a special temporary ability. A full "hero" meter lets you skip 50% of the level you're currently playing except that also means skipping past all of the checkpoints and any objective-based content in those zones. Get a bunch of hero meter from destroying alien battleships? If you pop the hero ability you're going to skip past the next three and have to find a way to back track.
p.s. this is all while you're still being graded, Sonic Adventure 2 style. Hero, Neutral and Dark missions all have their own separate grades, too.
All that alignment stuff? It only matters to you, the player. All enemies, regardless of their faction, will always attack you on sight. Doesn't matter if you're palling around with Sonic, Eggman or the Black Arms aliens. There are healing items that will revive fallen enemies whose buddies will actively try to prevent you from bringing their friend back to life.
The game has five "last level"s but ten endings. That means you have to beat each final boss in both hero and dark alignments. The game makes zero effort to communicate to you which levels you've already seen, which bosses you've beaten as which alignment, or anything. When you start a new game, you have to plan your route out, manually, in your head, so you know exactly what missions you need to do to get where you need to go and then keep track of whether or you've already finished that ending as hero or dark. And you have to do this ten times.
You HAVE to see all ten endings in order to unlock The Last Story and the game's 11th "true" ending. Even though some of the ten previous endings contradict each other, the 11th ending references story elements as if all ten endings are things that happened in the same timeline. There are multiple endings where it's implied Shadow kills Eggman. He's alive and unscathed in the 11th "true" ending. Figure that shit out.
Not that it matters. There's three or four stories that get told over the course of Shadow the Hedgehog, and if you happen to cross, say, all the way from the "hero" side to the "dark" side things very quickly stop making sense as plot threads stop connecting entirely. And, unlike Sonic 2006, Shadow the Hedgehog is low on "iconic moments" and the few it does have aren't likely to get seen by accident thanks to the branching system. Getting all of Shadow's "funny lines" requires a lot of planning and forethought.
None of this is even touching on the controls. Shadow the Hedgehog himself takes a full 2-3 entire seconds to accelerate to maximum speed. "Maximum speed" is too fast to control and Shadow's turning radius is incredibly sluggish. The moment you let go of the analog stick, Shadow will stop on a dime, dead in his tracks. Gun play isn't to bad but it's literally the only option for attacking enemies because Shadow's homing attack is incredibly slow and loves to lose its targeting. You also have a melee attack that is 100% worthless and I've never, ever been able to hit anything with it, let alone get a kill. There's also a strafe button, even though nothing ever requires it.
This is not a "so bad it's good" fun time with your friends. It is designed to grind you down in to dust. It stands as the only Sonic game I owned where I have never had it in me to reach the game's final true ending. It's just... too exhausting for that.
Professor Beef
Banned
It's like they learned nothing from Mephiles
oh man, i'd hate to be that guy
BlazeHedgehog
Member
it's august! we're getting the real sonic 4 this month!
As we imagined it
allenpergallon
Member
What are you talking about Mephiles had a great theme too
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I'm a firm believer that the series needs more pinball minigames, or another stab at Spinball. I don't know when it happened but I always find myself spending about half my time in Generations playing Casino Night whenever I boot it up (with Heroes special stage music of course, it's a really damn good combo).
2 player races should also kinda be a standard thing. Dimps did a good job with Lost World and Generations portable versions, Lost World moreso.
As for other gameplay styles, I think the Tails Adventure formula could work well with Knuckles. His climbing/fighting aspects always seemed better suited for a more exploratory, slower-paced adventure. Granted such a game doesn't necessarily need to be paced like Tails Adventure or Metroid or whatever, and could have similar speed to the main series honestly, but in order to break it up from becoming something like a better Knuckles Chaotix I think slowing it down and emphasizing digging/gliding/fighting/exploring/chuckling would be necessary in some capacity.
Tails... outside of something in the vein of Ecco/Kolibri or Tails Adventure again I can't really see something for him in 2D that isn't a straight up Tornado shmup or the like. Tails Skypatrol being a bigger and more fluid game would be pretty neat though, a nice arcadey experience. In 3D I could definitely see Tails aping off of NiGHTS for another arcade-like game mode.
Also make Sega Bass Fishing 3 ft. Big the Cat. Honestly.
Munch Poke
Member
Holy cow. Thanks for posting this, that run was incredible. I've never felt so inadequate in my Sonic skills as I do right now.
Let me break it down for you
Let me break it down.
So you take shadow, like his person, he's like 3 "3 it would be easy. You go outside, you literally throw him at platinum games and yell " DO THING, DO EDGY CHARACTER ACTION THING"
And then you take tails, like his person. And then fly to... the Montreal or actual France, I forget where they are located and throw them at dontnod and go " DO YOUR ADVENTURE GAME THING WITH YOUR FLANNEL AND TINY GUITARS. "
And they both give you one of these
And then throw them bags of money, and wait.
And then games happen. And then I wont even care what happens with sonic games at that point, I will have what I want.
fixed that for you
Waddle Dee
Member
Honestly a shame that Platinum never made anything Sonic-related. I know the whole "take popular IP and give it to Platinum" idea is frowned upon by some but Sonic is already an over-the-top roller coaster of a series. Platinum could make a great action game starring Sonic & friends.
Sonic Boom: RoL might have actually been good if it were developed by a team with some ambition who care about bringing something new and fun to the table and not just giving us a generic cookie-cutter D-list Lego (most of those Lego games are already close to D-list so that's saying something) game.
Did you see what happened with the development of that game that got leaked out waddle dee?
There was so much corporate meddling and none understanding between the branches making the product that it wouldn't have mattered, you probably could save sonic boom that game and the brand from what it is right now.
Side note, I like how when folks on like animation dedicated youtube channels talk about CN sonic boom does not come up, ever. Like other licensed shit comes up, not sonic boom, no one cares apperently
There was so much corporate meddling and none understanding between the branches making the product that it wouldn't have mattered, you probably could save sonic boom that game and the brand from what it is right now.
Side note, I like how when folks on like animation dedicated youtube channels talk about CN sonic boom does not come up, ever. Like other licensed shit comes up, not sonic boom, no one cares apperently
Professor Beef
Banned
Platinum Games has such a shoddy record I'm surprised people are still memeing about them making things.
Shadow Hog
Member
Not a particularly good ancient adage, given CD rocks and has plenty of gimmicks to spare per stage.
The level design is love-it-or-hate-it, though I'm firmly in Camp Love It, so.
My realization tonight was that it really doesn't. It uses springs, floating platforms, and tubes like they're going out of style, but when it comes to the unique objects that give a zone its flavor, it vacillates between overusing them to the point where they dominate the level (QQ conveyors, WW floors, SS plane switchers), or underusing them such that they barely appear and feel like oddities that were tacked on to fill a space rather than something that the level was designed around (PP ramps, pretty much everything in TT). Metallic Madness is the only zone that's up to the series' usual standards for both variety and placement balance.
Like, it's not a coincidence that in what little we've seen of Mania's Stardust Speedway Act 1, there's multiple new elements visible compared to how relatively unchanged the other returning Act 1s are.
I feel like outside of ninja turtles and starfox their " bad games" are korra which ... isn't a bad game.
Giving them some money to make a character action about a character with character action abilities that play up their love of silly edgy cheese should be right up their alley. I don't think platinum should make everything, but there are a few things platinum should make.
Also Give me tails modern adventure myster game pls thanks
Professor Beef
Banned
...You listed no bad games and one of the best games of the year.
You wanna try again? I'll give you a second. Please take your time
Professor Beef
Banned
Boy did I love Sonic Battle. Hated raising Emerl, but everything else? WHEW
Customizing Emerl like the Combot he was meant to be: 👍
Raising Emerl like a son with 8 parents who beat him up, with no good attacks yet: 👎👎
Professor Beef
Banned
Because he took foreeeeeeeeeeever to get to a high enough level to give him good attacks. Sucked out my enjoyment so much that I just stuck to regular vs CPU matches.
Azure Dream
Member
Weird fridge thought: Do you think they picked "Forces" to also imply Sonic 4 (even though that's more what Mania is, and the 'actual' Sonic 4), or to tease that there's actually 4 characters (still hoping for Future Sonic)?
Then again, "Forces" is an English loan word that is popular in Japanese media, and we've seen the in-level dialogue of Donut Steel being talked to by military leaders. So it's unlikely.
Crap, now I really want Future Sonic to go along with Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic.
That's always been a weird line to draw in my opinion. Obviously you mean you don't want to see people clipping through walls and zooming through half the map, but glitches can be more mechanical and subtle than that, I.E. "if I jump this way, the normal speed cap doesn't apply" or "If I land on this subpixel, I can make a jump that normally won't work". Those are clearly unintended mechanics, so where do you draw the line? Sometimes we're so used to certain glitches in games that we don't even think of them as such.
Shadow has a lot of problems, but at least it felt like a game where they tried new things, and explored design choices they previously abandoned. Several of the levels vary radically in structure. Obviously the branching pathways. Rail grinding is a little mechanical, but switching rails doesn't randomly kill you like it did in Sonic Heroes. Traveling between checkpoints. And for what it's worth, they did try to tackle plotpoints SA2 and Heroes threw out there then walked away from. "There's Shadow clones in all these capsules, but you'll NEVER SEE THEM DO ANYTHING." Thanks Heroes, you damn mess. Flashing back to Space Colony for a level was a nice idea, nice homage to SA2. And the game did at least get Shadow to shut up about Maria, and his past. Mephiles had to go out of his way to make Shadow question his future in 2006,and even then Shadow pretty much had it decided by the end of his story. (I still think that's a great little cutscene, except for the badly-done slowdown.)
I still hold to my opinion that Shadow's campaign is the most polished of 2006, and if they had dropped the Sonic content (maybe Silver's too, or maybe reworked that), and spent more time buffing Shadow's campaign, it would've likely been a pretty decent Shadow The Hedgehog 2, fixing some of the issues with the original.
But then again, Shadow's campaign feels like it was done last, so it was probably better because they better understood their game and the many, many limitations it had. So it's kind of a Blue Emerald Paradox.
That would be fantastic. Hell, now they could work in your own Original the Character as a replacement for Emerl.
Okay, that's enough 🔥hot takes🔥 for now. Time to crawl back into my coffin.
Then again, "Forces" is an English loan word that is popular in Japanese media, and we've seen the in-level dialogue of Donut Steel being talked to by military leaders. So it's unlikely.
Crap, now I really want Future Sonic to go along with Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic.
That's always been a weird line to draw in my opinion. Obviously you mean you don't want to see people clipping through walls and zooming through half the map, but glitches can be more mechanical and subtle than that, I.E. "if I jump this way, the normal speed cap doesn't apply" or "If I land on this subpixel, I can make a jump that normally won't work". Those are clearly unintended mechanics, so where do you draw the line? Sometimes we're so used to certain glitches in games that we don't even think of them as such.
Shadow has a lot of problems, but at least it felt like a game where they tried new things, and explored design choices they previously abandoned. Several of the levels vary radically in structure. Obviously the branching pathways. Rail grinding is a little mechanical, but switching rails doesn't randomly kill you like it did in Sonic Heroes. Traveling between checkpoints. And for what it's worth, they did try to tackle plotpoints SA2 and Heroes threw out there then walked away from. "There's Shadow clones in all these capsules, but you'll NEVER SEE THEM DO ANYTHING." Thanks Heroes, you damn mess. Flashing back to Space Colony for a level was a nice idea, nice homage to SA2. And the game did at least get Shadow to shut up about Maria, and his past. Mephiles had to go out of his way to make Shadow question his future in 2006,and even then Shadow pretty much had it decided by the end of his story. (I still think that's a great little cutscene, except for the badly-done slowdown.)
I still hold to my opinion that Shadow's campaign is the most polished of 2006, and if they had dropped the Sonic content (maybe Silver's too, or maybe reworked that), and spent more time buffing Shadow's campaign, it would've likely been a pretty decent Shadow The Hedgehog 2, fixing some of the issues with the original.
But then again, Shadow's campaign feels like it was done last, so it was probably better because they better understood their game and the many, many limitations it had. So it's kind of a Blue Emerald Paradox.
That would be fantastic. Hell, now they could work in your own Original the Character as a replacement for Emerl.
Okay, that's enough 🔥hot takes🔥 for now. Time to crawl back into my coffin.
are you trying to start something you motherfucker
Professor Beef
Banned
well i'm not trying to start playing 101 again huehuehue
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
I'm getting the import for Sonic World Adventure.
Anyway, what Sonic OSTs do you own? Format and print?
Anyway, what Sonic OSTs do you own? Format and print?
BlazeHedgehog
Member
On CD, I own:
- The 2 disc Sonic Adventure soundtrack (Everanime bootleg, didn't know at the time)
- The Sonic Adventure Vocal+Remix CD (another Everanime, same as above)
- SegaTunes: Virtual Sonic
- The 20th Anniversary Sonic 1 + 2 Soundtrack
I feel like I'm forgetting one, but it's escaping me
- The 2 disc Sonic Adventure soundtrack (Everanime bootleg, didn't know at the time)
- The Sonic Adventure Vocal+Remix CD (another Everanime, same as above)
- SegaTunes: Virtual Sonic
- The 20th Anniversary Sonic 1 + 2 Soundtrack
I feel like I'm forgetting one, but it's escaping me
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
I've got, most notably, the original Japanese OUT for Sonic Adventure, worth around 150 to 250 now. I do have Sonic Adventure 2 though that is digital. Of course I have Sonic CD JP which I bought last month...which took at least a month to arrive.
I really want the main Genesis games, but buying physical copies is not worth it due to the fact that it's a 16 bit soundtrack. Maybe they will release the games on iTunes for a decent price. Bundle the games though. The first Sonic game has like 17 minutes of music, not worth ten bucks.
Anybody know where I can find the Japanese two disc version of Shadow the Hedgehog?
I really want the main Genesis games, but buying physical copies is not worth it due to the fact that it's a 16 bit soundtrack. Maybe they will release the games on iTunes for a decent price. Bundle the games though. The first Sonic game has like 17 minutes of music, not worth ten bucks.
Anybody know where I can find the Japanese two disc version of Shadow the Hedgehog?
So I finally got around to playing Sonic Utopia, and man... it's so fucking great. I haven't had this much fun just moving in a Sonic game since Adventure 1 all those years ago. This feels even better than that, which was already the best we'd had up until Utopia imo. Really good job by the team, can't wait to see more. Hopefully the next levels are more focused - since this was just a concept demo I'm sure they wanted to make it as sprawling and playground-y as possible.
okay so now that I'm back home and can sit down and digest this special stage footage properly
guys they look so good (and I don't just mean the aesthetics)
It's a great big conceptual mashup with all the good ideas from CD and Chaotix and Heroes and Colors DS, free of the constraints of the half-pipe/whole-pipe and with actual racing and platforming elements and I couldn't be happier.
and also blue spheres is back but whatever guys these are going to be the best special stages ever
guys they look so good (and I don't just mean the aesthetics)
It's a great big conceptual mashup with all the good ideas from CD and Chaotix and Heroes and Colors DS, free of the constraints of the half-pipe/whole-pipe and with actual racing and platforming elements and I couldn't be happier.
and also blue spheres is back but whatever guys these are going to be the best special stages ever
Rapscallion
Member
I just own Blue Blur: The Sonic Generations OST on CD. It's a great 2 disc set that comes in a classy white box with gold lettering.
Azure Dream
Member
It's just a fan project, but this animatic for a hypothetical "Sonic Mega Drive Mania" show is really appealing.
https://youtu.be/fOkjoQd4uUo
https://youtu.be/fOkjoQd4uUo
Rapscallion
Member
Need to make a hard decision: to drop the Sonic Mania collectors edition or not.
$40 extra is hard pill to swallow. Had been hoping they would have dropped the price.
$40 extra is hard pill to swallow. Had been hoping they would have dropped the price.
I'm in the same boat.
Digital is 20€ on the PSN, the Collector is 90€ at Amazon.
Soooo 70€ for a statue... I'm really unsure if I should keep my order or not.