Support NeoGAF

[Fuu]

Does Rush Adventure really have less bottomless pits than Rush? It may be a cliche complaint but it was in fact my biggest issue with the first Rush.

No, in agreeing with those people. They are the type of Sonic fan that makes Sonic discussion worthwhile because they make sense. Sega1991 is right on the ball, and I agree with him on his opinions, even though we like different core Sonic gameplay.

Pretty much. Sega1991 particularly, I wish every Sonic fan was level headed like him.

 

[Aaron Strife]

That's one thing about extra lives that always interests me. In Mario games they hand them out like candy because the developers expect players will try new things and will need something to fall back on. In a lot of older games respawnable extra lives were handed out when the player reached unfamiliar areas that introduced new concepts or level designs(sort of like checkpoints in modern games, as long as you manage to grab that 1up you can try that section again). But when it comes to later Sonic games it seems like you get 1ups all the time because it seemed more like the developers had no idea what they were doing and just handed them out until the player managed to stumble to the end of the stage.

For what it's worth, in the HD versions of Unleashed (as your life counter is fixed in the Wii version), there's usually a 1-up before a challenging platforming segment, both in the day and night stages. This is especially prominent in the DLC levels, as well as Eggmanland.

Does Rush Adventure really have less bottomless pits than Rush? It may be a cliche complaint but it was in fact my biggest issue with the first Rush.

I only played the first couple of levels, but it seemed that way. Then again, I didn't really have a problem with the bottomless pits in Rush.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Knuckles Chaotix should be added to the OP. When you get past the chained-together aspect of the game, it's a damn fine Sonic game. Visually it is something to behold. They absolutely drenched that game in amazing colors. Prettier than Ristar and approaches Astal IMO.

Chaotix is the worst of the Genesis era by a long shot. Absolutely no challenge to speak of; it's basically just going through the motions of a Sonic game the entire time.

The special stages were ace, though. Probably my favorite of the series.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Chaotix is the worst of the Genesis era by a long shot. Absolutely no challenge to speak of; it's basically just going through the motions of a Sonic game the entire time.

The special stages were ace, though. Probably my favorite of the series.

I dunno. I'd probably take Chaotix over Sonic 3D Blast or Sonic Spinball.

I've voiced my disdain for Spinball before (any level after Toxic Caves is basically garbage - they're too big, and requiring you to be too precise).

Sonic 3D Blast... I'd like to know if anybody has ever beaten that game without cheating. Usually by the time I'm around halfway through the game it's been two or three hours and the extreme tedium of finding five badniks, destroying them, and then finding the goal liquefies my brain. A lot of the later levels in 3D Blast take 25 minutes+ unless you have all enemy locations memorized (and even then, I'd say they probably exceed 10 minutes).

Chaotix may be devoid of challenge (and polish, and...) but at least it's not tedious or frustrating.

 

[Blueblur1]

I dunno. I'd probably take Chaotix over Sonic 3D Blast or Sonic Spinball.

I've voiced my disdain for Spinball before (any level after Toxic Caves is basically garbage - they're too big, and requiring you to be too precise).

Sonic 3D Blast... I'd like to know if anybody has ever beaten that game without cheating. Usually by the time I'm around halfway through the game it's been two or three hours and the extreme tedium of finding five badniks, destroying them, and then finding the goal liquefies my brain. A lot of the later levels in 3D Blast take 25 minutes+ unless you have all enemy locations memorized (and even then, I'd say they probably exceed 10 minutes).

Chaotix may be devoid of challenge (and polish, and...) but at least it's not tedious or frustrating.

I beat the Genesis version of 3D Blast a couple of times with no cheat codes or nothin'. It got to the point where I would get headaches so I eventually stopped playing the game entirely. Now that I look back on it, that game was terrible and I never want to play it again.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I always think of 3D Blast as a Saturn game, not a Genesis game. And I enjoyed Spinball.

 

[Sanjuro]

I dunno. I'd probably take Chaotix over Sonic 3D Blast or Sonic Spinball.

At this point this is close to taking a giant turd and picking out the best looking nuts.

Sonic Scat Adventure > Sonic Scat Adventure 2: Coffee Beans > Sonic the Poophawg > Sonic Bowels Unleashed > Sonic 3D Porcelain Blast > Sonic RuReadytoWipe > Sonic Rush > Sonic Leakage Shuffle

Give me 8-bit and 16-bit Sonic and the average at best Rush game.

 

[wRATH2x]

Sonic 3D Blast... I'd like to know if anybody has ever beaten that game without cheating. Usually by the time I'm around halfway through the game it's been two or three hours and the extreme tedium of finding five badniks, destroying them, and then finding the goal liquefies my brain. A lot of the later levels in 3D Blast take 25 minutes+ unless you have all enemy locations memorized (and even then, I'd say they probably exceed 10 minutes).
.

I've beet the game without cheating and I thought it was awesome. I also played it recently and it held up well, why the hate?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I've beet the game without cheating and I thought it was awesome. I also played it recently and it held up well, why the hate?

It's slow, it's tedious, it's boring, and it has bad controls. It's like hunting for chaos emerald shards in Sonic Adventure (which, by itself, can be bad enough) except you aren't given a radar.

 

[wRATH2x]

It's slow, it's tedious, it's boring, and it has bad controls. It's like hunting for chaos emerald shards in Sonic Adventure (which, by itself, can be bad enough) except you aren't given a radar.

I liked hunting the master emerald shards in Adventure 1. It sucked in 2 though. I must be a special case.

 

[Youta Mottenai]

That same group is also in the home stretch for a Sonic Unleashed LP and will apparently be moving on to Sonic and the Black Knight once they're done.

http://www.viddler.com/explore/pokecapn/videos/

These guys had a lot of perseverance. I could only make till part 10.
I knew Sonic 2006 was bad, but damn, not that bad.
Even taking in acount the guys are not playing it in an "oh my gosh this is so serious!" way, the camera, the controls, the 'lifeless' city, the bugs, are all atrocious. It looks like an unfinished game.

And the loadings... Holy crap at the loadings!!

Loading - cut scene - loading - stage part 1- loading - stage part 2 - loading -boss stage - loading - boss freaking name - loading - boss fight - loading - boss dying animation - loading - rank screen - loading - loading...

WTF Sega!? W T F !?

 

[FoxSpirit]

I'm currently in the homestretch of watching that with a friend. Awesome, awesome LP.
Next up will be the Unleashed one which my friend already saw partially. Comment: "It's amazing on just how many levels is so much btter than 2006. Actually, if not for the Nightstages that looks complete genuine fun."

Might pick it up in the used bin

 

[Arpharmd B]

Knuckles Chaotix needs to be played by anyone serious about Sonics heyday. Say what you will about the ringed-together mechanic, the game is if anything the most visually and aurally stunning Sonic game ever. Here's a taste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdM79OQNvlI

Once you get the hang of the team mechanic the game is the fastest Sonic title you will ever play. For me, owning every Sonic game back in the day, I put it above vanilla Sonic 3 and Sonic CD. Really underrated game.

I honestly feel Sonic CD is the worst Sonic game of the era. Sloppy, uninspired level design (they feel ametuerish, like a fan made them with a Sonic 1 level editor) lame boss fights (the pinball boss says it all) bad slowdown (on the more powerful Sega CD?) sub-Sonic 2 visuals (Sonic CD is after Sonic 2 yet features Sonic 1 animation), etc.

I know me saying Chaotix is a better game will raise some eyebrows, but even as a child I got sooo much more enjoyment out of it than CD.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I'm the kind of guy who thinks Sonic CD is a tad overrated, but even I wouldn't put Chaotix above it. Chaotix desperately wanted to be the 32X's Sonic CD (to the point of using a lot of the Sonic-CD-specific sound effects and even bringing back the Sonic CD version of Metal Sonic) and just fell way short.

It has great art design, great music, but everything else about it is pretty sub-par. Level design is a jumbled mess, often with no real clear "pathway" to take to the end - my first time through a lot of its levels I actually ended up getting lost and having no idea where I was going. The magic ring rubber-band mechanic ends up being more of an annoying hindrance than a benefit (and bypassing it, by picking up your buddy, makes the game laughably easy). Some of the new power-ups, though certainly cool looking, are absolutely worthless because the game makes no conscious effort to utilize them in any interesting ways.

Infact, that kind of describes a lot of the game mechanics of Knuckles Chaotix; it's like they added all of this stuff without considering what any of it does or how to try and make the player use it. Like every game design decision they made ended with them saying in an uncertain tone: "I guess that's a cool idea...?"

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Liking Chaotix might be more offensive to my sensibilities than supporting Sonic's recent 3D affairs.

Chaotix is a great game if "hold right and jump, run really fast" is all you want out of a Sonic game. The zones are 5 acts long and selected randomly. There is no concrete sense of progression at all. There was nothing that really distinguished one stage from another, save for that switch in the arena stage that turned on the lights (which I don't remember having a significant gameplay effect, either). The final boss looks cool as hell but is laughably easy.

The game looks awesome, and I like the soundtrack (bad Sonic soundtracks are certainly hard to come by, even today), and the special stages are great, but that's about all the good I can say about it.

 

[Cafeman]

I have played a lot of Knuckles Chaotix and I think its a mediocre game. Chaotix was acceptable back in the day only because: 32X owners were starved, it had eye-blindingly rich color usage, a cool final boss in the big red mecha-sonic at the end, and the truly fun 3D bonus rounds. The main linked gameplay is frustrating and lifeless to me.

I never played much of the Genesis version of Sonic 3D Blast, but the Saturn one holds up nicely as something different. The visuals, music, environment FX, and 3D half-pipe bonus rounds escalate the enjoyment quite a bit over the Genny version. I've beaten it a few times, it isn't that hard or lengthy of a game.

 

[GoDLiKe]

I'm one of the people on GAF who thinks that Unleashed (360 at least) is a very fun game and actually better than Adventure 1 and 2. There are others who can defend this position much better than I can (I'm not particularly interested in trying either, the franchise has too heavy a baggage that usually steers me away from online discussion about it) so I'll just say I agree with almost everything Sega1991 and dark10x said about the game in their posts.

I'm with you. Bought the PS3 version last weekend and i'm having a lot of fun. Played the Wii version when it was released and I can't understand because so much reviews said the Wii version is the best. Cake is a lie.

Best Sonic game on consoles since Sonic Adventure 2.

 

[The Power Of Snap]

For me, the best art was in sonic cd. The space theme with mobius and the special stage backgrounds were so nice. The colors and the music were so ravy

Sega should make a new sonic game about mobius (or like satam).

 

[Mama Robotnik]

For me, the best art was in sonic cd. The space theme with mobius and the special stage backgrounds were so nice. The colors and the music were so ravy

Sega should make a new sonic game about mobius (or like satam).

I loved Sonic CD's style, it was so surreal, like the levels were trying to be abstract ideas rather than real-physical places. Very reminiscent of Sonic 1/2 and Chaotix. After that, the art design was a bit more serious business, less eclectic.

Interestingly, when discussing the which design of Sonic is favoured, the overwhelming majority of GAFfers went with Sonic CD.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

I'm still behind you Sonic even with all your flaws and mistakes. Happy birthday.

 

[red shoe paul]

HD remakes with 3d backgrounds of Sonic CD, 1 to 3 on PSN and XBLA

Scrap Sonic Team afterwards.

Hahah, I definitely agree. Any update on that Sonic 2 HD project? I've been pray for so many months it would just come out.

 

[Iknos]

Gabe Newell had this idea of game development being funded by hardcore fans.

Would you guys put $100 towards getting a Sonic 1-3 HD game made?

Say it costs $500,000 to make that game you would need 5000 people to do the same.

And you would get a cut of the profits.

Sounds achievable to me but I don't think SEGA would do something like that.

 

[KingJ2002]

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/flash-tub/ultimate-sonic-fan.php

:lol

...

to stay on topic... sonic unleashed was only a bad game due to the werehog sections. If sega wants to get back to creating AAA sonic titles they would do the following:

- Keep the sonic sections like sonic unleashed: it was pretty much known that the sonic portions of the games were great. the 2.5D gameplay is what people wanted. Sega's concern was that the levels would be too long to make as they can stretch for miles. In that case... they should consider using a technology close to Id megatexture tech... so no two texture's are the same.. with that... they can have some hanna barbera style repeat areas to make the game seem longer.

- Keep playable friends to a minimum: Mario get's this right... so should Sonic... people want to play as sonic... not as ted the toad, to licky the lizard. If you insist on friends being there... they should only be there in the capacity of assist characters only.

- Mini Games should be included: One of the reasons why the early sonic games were so fun is that there was mini games within levels to break up the monotony of running though stages. Mini games within levels will keep the stage unique and add lots of replay value... you do it with Virtua Tennis... sonic could use some mini games as well... but keep in mind that they should be fun... not boring.

- Dump the huge overworlds: They're not needed... it would be easier if the game story mode was more linear... players... especially children can get lost in huge overworlds especially if there's no sense of progress. Which these overworlds tend to do. If you have to have an overworld... at least have it on a path... such as having a "Green Hill Zone Overworld" beat all the levels in there... then move directly into the "Ice Cap Zone" overworld.

- Online Components: 2-Player co-op through levels, 4 Player mini-games, Racing challenges... you can go beyond the storyline with sonic games.

- No More human love interests.. or better yet... keep the human presense to a minimum: Sonic 06 sucked because of that... and Sonic Unleashed was just weird... stop destroying the fantasy of Sonic by pushing him into reality.

 

[ismaboof]

Gabe Newell had this idea of game development being funded by hardcore fans.

Would you guys put $100 towards getting a Sonic 1-3 HD game made?

Say it costs $500,000 to make that game you would need 5000 people to do the same.

And you would get a cut of the profits.

Sounds achievable to me but I don't think SEGA would do something like that.

For some reason, I sincerely doubt that would happen

 

[ShockingAlberto]

i'm amazed anyone is still asking. why Sega haven't made such a game is a real mystery. hell it's also a mystery why they haven't made a 3D sonic game that is basically just a succession of levels just like the Sonic/Shadow ones from Sonic Adventure 2 where you only play as sonic and don't turn into a frickin werewolf or drive cars or something.

both of these things have been well requested. you could forgive Sega for thinking they knew best at first. what seems like a dozen or so games later... it's pretty obvious that they do not know best.

YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET SONIC AUDIENCE

And, more than likely, you never will be again.

It is entirely 8 - 14 year old males who like Shadow and enjoy extreme takes on the series. Werehog was not added for you, it was added for them. And that is the real game to Sega.

 

[Teknoman]

Actually i'd like the next Sonic game to be exactly like Unleashed with a few adjustments.

- No transformations aside from Super Sonic
- Optional Tails/ Knuckles playable with their own views of the story like Adventure 1
- No overworld exploration stuff

The speedy 3d sections of Unleashed were actually well done, due to the drift and quick step moves. 2d sections had potential, but a few of those sections felt a little off due to Sonic's fast acceleration. Just slow down Sonic's acceleration abit, and it's pretty much what a good modern Sonic game should be.

 

[gutter_trash]

my complaint about the Sonic portions of Unleashed are these

-too much on exagerated speed
-platforming judgement is difficult to predict, they should tone it down to Genesis levels of judgement
-the QTE bits out of the blue can really throw you off in height of insane speed going wha?
-it becomes too much of a map memorization racer, where you memorize the turns, enemy location, traps and jumps..

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I actually miss the Tails levels from Adventure 1. I liked playing those more than the Sonic ones.

As for the Sonic levels, Adventure 2 is pretty much as good as it gets IMO. Unleashed did it pretty well but it was way too hard to lose control.

 

[Teknoman]

my complaint about the Sonic portions of Unleashed are these

-too much on exagerated speed
-platforming judgement is difficult to predict, they should tone it down to Genesis levels of judgement
-the QTE bits out of the blue can really throw you off in height of insane speed going wha?
-it because too much of map memorization racer, where you memorize the turns, enemy location, traps and jumps..

Yeah I share those as well. I will say Skyscraper Scamper and Savannah Citadel did it right. Not too many QTE, decent amount of normal platforming, and not too many traps at really fast sections.

Would be nice to have normal Act splits again too. Maybe first act is a high speed style Unleashed stage to get to the center of the area, and Act 2 a slow down and normal platform 2d area with a few minor speed mechanics (ramps to get to higher places).

 

[Dra-Q]

The last well Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 1 for the Dreamcast - every other one after that sucks donkey-balls. Don't lie to yourself and get over it. And, besides the Mario games (no matter if 2D or 3D), jump'n'runs are dead.

Spoiler

Open Your Heart

 

[gutter_trash]

I corrected my horrible typos
oh and yeah, Sonic should kill the hubs.. this is not Mario 64,
Sonic should return to Zone Act 1, Zone Act 2 progression old school style with a checkpoint save system for the end of each act or Zone.

going to a town hub kills the Super Sonic imidiacy of the Genesis Sonics in terms of pacing and progressiong.

the overwhelming amount of collect-a-thons in 3D Sonics are ambarassing.

Sonic 2006 did it the worst. But it would have been nice of Unleashed did not resort to hubs either

Sonic Rush Adventure (the 2nd one) worsened upon the better Sonic Rush the 1st with the insane hubs

 

[Eric C]

And, besides the Mario games (no matter if 2D or 3D), jump'n'runs are dead.

I still think a 2D, console Sonic game could do really well. Not as successful as NSMB. But I'm hoping Sega gets inspired enough by NSMB to go back to Sonics roots, at least just for one game.

A 2D "Sonic 4" with HD graphics would be one of the best things to happen with the Sonic series in years.

 

[Teknoman]

The last well Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 1 for the Dreamcast - every other one after that sucks donkey-balls. Don't lie to yourself and get over it. And, besides the Mario games (no matter if 2D or 3D), jump'n'runs are dead.

Spoiler

Open Your Heart

Actually rent and play Sonic Unleashed. The standard Sonic sections of those are actually better than the SA1 Sonic sections.... at least lock on, platforming, and general quality as far as glitches go.

EDIT: And at least we never have to worry about soundtracks. Dont think there has ever been a worldwide released Sonic game with a bad soundtrack.

 

[coldvein]

when i was in fourth grade i wrote a sonic fanfic on laminated pieces of lined paper that i had cut in the shape of sonic the hedgehog. ahhh good times..

 

[HUELEN10]

At least we never have to worry about soundtracks. Dont think there has ever been a worldwide released Sonic game with a bad soundtrack.

WRONG

 

[Teknoman]

WRONG

Wanted to forget about that...dunno what Bioware was thinking.

 

[HUELEN10]

Wanted to forget about that...dunno what Bioware was thinking.

I am a Sonic fan, I love Sonic and if a game is fun, I will buy it. To date, this is the first and only Sonic game I have gotten rid of, traded it for Klonoa actually. What does that tell you about the game? :lol

 

[YoungHav]

:lol @ Sonic. You can take Jay-Z's "Takeover" and take out the word Nas and replace it with Sonic. This dude is a chump has been and should be buried and forgotten. I wish Sonic had died of cardiac arrest instead of MJ.

 

[[Nintex]]

Wanted to forget about that...dunno what Bioware was thinking.

There was a kick-ass Beta soundtrack for the game, but SEGA somehow messed up licensing or something.

 

[HUELEN10]

There was a kick-ass Beta soundtrack for the game, but SEGA somehow messed up licensing or something.

Link to it then. It's been a while.

 

[Teknoman]

There was a kick-ass Beta soundtrack for the game, but SEGA somehow messed up licensing or something.

Anywhere I could listen to that?

 

[Dra-Q]

Actually rent and play Sonic Unleashed. The standard Sonic sections of those are actually better than the SA1 Sonic sections.... at least lock on, platforming, and general quality as far as glitches go.

EDIT: And at least we never have to worry about soundtracks. Dont think there has ever been a worldwide released Sonic game with a bad soundtrack.

I own Sonic Unleashed, SA2 and Heroes. They all suck, sorry. Don't know about the Handheld games.

 

[Mailenstein]

One of my all time favourites - Sonic the Hedgehog for Mega Drive. Good old times ...

Spoiler

Hi everyone! First post on GAF - Hope to have a good time in here .

 

[Stunt]

Sonic, you're an adult now. You really need to get your act together. If you're going to make another 3D game, at least make it like Sonic Adventure 2 DX. I'm pretty sure that's the only one I liked.

Yeah, that or remake 1-3 in HD.

 

[Teknoman]

I own Sonic Unleashed, SA2 and Heroes. They all suck, sorry. Don't know about the Handheld games.

Wait you own the HD version of Wii version?

 

[Dra-Q]

Wait you own the HD version of Wii version?

Unleashed for 360, SA2 Dreamcast and Heroes for PS2.

 

[Yoshi]

I'd be happy with a Sonic game that doesn't require the player to get killed a dozen times just to go through a stage.

So, uhm, play Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Adventure 2 or any other decent Sonic game? They all don't require you to die 12 times, you don't even have to die once, as the traps are visible beforehand. Not neccessarily for a long time, but for a long enough time to react. I'm quite sure, that I didn't die more than three times in any level of Sonic Rush Adventure for example - and when I died it was my mistake.

 

[HUELEN10]

Unleashed for 360

Really? Dude, what did you not like about it? Curious is all...

So, uhm, play Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Adventure 2 or any other decent Sonic game? They all don't require you to die 12 times, you don't even have to die once, as the traps are visible beforehand. Not neccessarily for a long time, but for a long enough time to react. I'm quite sure, that I didn't die more than three times in any level of Sonic Rush Adventure for example - and when I died it was my mistake.

Fucking nailed it man.

 

[Teknoman]

Well Heroes for PS2 was the worst version of the game (technical issues wise). Wasnt really that great of a game though, but the environments were nice.

However HD Unleashed...what was it that did the game in for you?

Werehog aside (which didnt really bother me except...the fact beat em up gameplay in a Sonic game should belong to Knuckles, and the stages were too long), you didnt have fun with Skyscraper Scamper, Dragon Road, Cool Edge, or Savannah Citadel act 1?

 

[Dra-Q]

Really? Dude, what did you not like about it? Curious is all...

Let's be honest, the game played itself. I fucking love Sonic Adventure 1 on DC, but Unleashed plays like a techdemo. And don't get me startin about the werehog stages and the shitty combat-theme.

You had no freedom like in the Adventure games and they overused the QTEs. Some might like it, but I had no fun at all playing this mess.