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[makingmusic476]

The exclusives aren't enough to justify the difference of 12 millions. 360 also has exclusives and they matter too. The only fact here is the world is not only North America and UK, people tend to form their opinions only based on that markets and forget that they are not only places where they sell software.

Not to mention ODST probably sold *much* better than any of Sony's first party releases last year.

 

[hxa155]

40GB would probably cost them as much as a 120GB. Wifi is dirt cheap.

The cost saving ain't there to bridge $100.

I don't think Sony will be rushing to get to $199 this year. $249? More likely.

i guess it's not a good idea then

well, i dont care about what they do in terms of hw anyway
it's the software that does the magic

 

[Mad_Ban]

Good sales numbers for the PS3. It's nice this generation to see every console being healthy as opposed to last gen when the NGC and XBOX had anemic sales. However I must admit I went "Eep!" when I saw how much the gaming division lost.

I don't see how the 360 will grow in the market. When prices are similar, what comes into play to the average consumer is the brand name. In Europe and Asia, Microsoft cannot compete on brand name

I guess this is where the "relaunch" for Natal comes into play.

 

[Baki]

Nice of Sony to keep things fair.

More like fair to their shareholders. :lol :lol

Good sales numbers for the PS3. It's nice this generation to see every console being healthy as opposed to last gen when the NGC and XBOX had anemic sales. However I must admit I went "Eep!" when I saw how much the gaming division lost.


I guess this is where the "relaunch" for Natal comes into play.

That relaunch has potential only in the west, in my opinion. Even then, I don't expect NATAL to do what they hope it will in Europe.

North American sales will be healthy as usual though.

 

[szaromir]

Not to mention ODST probably sold *much* better than any of Sony's first party releases last year.

I don't think so... Uncharted 2 sold 3.5M+ copies, while ODST sold what? 5M perhaps and that's probablya stretch. The only other successful game on MS part was FM3. So exclusives could make this 10M unit difference.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I don't remember anyone laughing at all. Basically, Sony announcing the 13million pretty much was pre-verification that they were dropping the price. The only people were laughing were the ones saying there was no way they could reach those numbers *without* a price cut. It would have been impossible for them to hit 13 million with an ugly fat unit selling for $399

I admit it...I laughed. I never thought they'd make it(pre Slim). I'm glad I was wrong, good for the industry and all that.

Basically the same thing as last year. Lots said that 13 mil was crazy, but smart people knew that a price cut and/or slim was coming.

Same thing this year. No way they are expecting to sell more on a non-price cut year than a price cut year.

But according to this post I'm dumb.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

so...psp hardware sold on par with 360 hardware?

 

[Parmenides]

Sony Forecasts Miss Estimates, Fuel Concern Over Europe Demand

Sony Corp. forecast profit that missed analysts’ estimates, fueling concern the debt crisis in Europe may delay a recovery in demand for televisions, cameras and personal computers.

Net income will probably total 50 billion yen ($535 million) in the 12 months ending March 2011, The Tokyo-based maker of Bravia televisions said today. That’s less than half the average of 19 analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg. The company predicted revenue will rise 5.4 percent.

Sony, forecasting its first annual profit in three years, said it may suffer a “significant impact” if the Greek crisis spreads. Weaker spending in Europe, which accounts for about 25 percent of Sony’s sales, may undercut Chief Executive Officer Howard Stringer’s efforts to revive profitability by cutting 20,000 jobs and shutting 11 factories.

The company stopped losing money from PS3 consoles in March and will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3, compared with a loss of about 50 billion yen in the year ended March 31, Oneda said.

Personal computer sales will probably rise to 8.8 million from 6.8 million, Sony said. The company projects sales of 15 million PS3s compared with 13 million sold a year earlier.

Bloomberg

 

[Baki]

so...psp hardware sold on par with 360 hardware?

Yes.

 

[Elios83]

I wouldn't be surprised to see no price cut at all, and instead see a $299 move bundle. You never know with Sony though...

Move bundles at 299$ will be the only way to make this add-on relevant.
Because I don't think that many people are gonna spend 100$ to play the crappy games and Wii rip-offs they have announced until now (unless they're hiding things for E3).
But it's not like every PS3 will be bundled with Move, they have already confirmed that, so if the Move bundle is priced at 299$ the unbundled console must be priced lower (249$, which is what they're gonna do in my opinion since they have an other hardware revision in store) or they could make a bundle with two first party games (Uncharted 2 and God of War 3?) and keep the price at 299$.
A hard drive upgrade to 250GB could be a given.
What is clear is that PS3 is now their main platform and revenue driver for them, so they have to push hardware sales and software sales as much as they can to offset declines in the PSP and PS2 businesses.
Although the PSP forecast smells like PSP 2 is coming....

 

[AdventureRacing]

That relaunch has potential only in the west, in my opinion. Even then, I don't expect NATAL to do what they hope it will in Europe.

I don't think the 360's situation in Europe is that much worse than the PS3's was in the US before the slim.

Your posts in this thread are making out as though the 360 wouldn't have any extra sales from a price drop + NATAl launch in Europe.

You are basically acting the same way people were about the PS3 pre slim launch.

 

[webcivilian]

The company stopped losing money from PS3 consoles in March and will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3, compared with a loss of about 50 billion yen in the year ended March 31, Oneda said.

So they have started to to break-even in March and would continue to make some money/

 

[KingDizzi]

I don't think so... Uncharted 2 sold 3.5M+ copies, while ODST sold what? 5M perhaps and that's probablya stretch. The only other successful game on MS part was FM3. So exclusives could make this 10M unit difference.

I believe Sony have never had a mega first party franchise besides Gran Turismo and it does not look like that has changed at all this generation. Sony have GT, MS have Halo however Nintendo..........Jebus the numbers their first games pull are beyond crazy.

It's kind of weird looking at Sony first party and seeing that they only have one big franchise. KZ, Uncharted, GOW, LBP etc are big franchises however nothing special at all. Anyway the games sell enough to warrant sequals so meh.

 

[NHale]

I believe Sony have never had a mega first party franchise besides Gran Turismo and it does not look like that has changed at all this generation. Sony have GT, MS have Halo however Nintendo..........Jebus the numbers their first games pull are beyond crazy.

It's kind of weird looking at Sony first party and seeing that they only have one big franchise. KZ, Uncharted, GOW, LBP etc are big franchises however nothing special at all. Anyway the games sell enough to warrant sequals so meh.

So now selling 3+ millions copies is nothing special at all? :lol

I still remember the times that selling 1+ millions was enough to consider a game a success...

 

[DMeisterJ]

So it looks like the Network products division or whatever it's called is going to be profitable this year.

Should be nice to see what they hve up their sleeves re: pricing, Move, and their first-part, especially GT5.

 

[noobie]

I believe Sony have never had a mega first party franchise besides Gran Turismo and it does not look like that has changed at all this generation. Sony have GT, MS have Halo however Nintendo..........Jebus the numbers their first games pull are beyond crazy.

It's kind of weird looking at Sony first party and seeing that they only have one big franchise. KZ, Uncharted, GOW, LBP etc are big franchises however nothing special at all. Anyway the games sell enough to warrant sequals so meh.

infront of Nintendo first party sales, these games sell like crap.. but i think if u look at the sales without comparing them to nintendo first party sales than they r quite good.. all of them selling over 3 Million is nothing ordinary..

but i see sony building LBP n it might become 5M + franchise.. but the difference is still that Nintendo games r quite casual and Sony games r still games.

 

[Mad_Ban]

Bloomberg

So they'll make $10m from PS3 hardware (barring a pricecut)?

So if they project 15m PS3's sold and a 10m profit...doesn't that equate to like 66cents profit for each PS3 sold?

Disclaimer: Maths was never my best subject.

 

[[Nintex]]

So now selling 3+ millions copies is nothing special at all? :lol

I still remember the times that selling 1+ millions was enough to consider a game a success...

Development costs increased

 

[Vinci]

infront of Nintendo first party sales, these games sell like crap.. but i think if u look at the sales without comparing them to nintendo first party sales than they r quite good.. all of them selling over 3 Million is nothing ordinary..

but i see sony building LBP n it might become 5M + franchise.. but the difference is still that Nintendo games r quite casual and Sony games r still games.

Brilliant post.

 

[DMeisterJ]

So they'll make $10m from PS3 hardware (barring a pricecut)?

So if they project 15m PS3's sold and a 10m profit...doesn't that equate to like 66cents profit for each PS3 sold?

Disclaimer: Maths was never my best subject.

Not only were your maths grossly incorrect, you fail to realize that the Ps3 division is not made up of just PS3s.

 

[AdventureRacing]

but i see sony building LBP n it might become 5M + franchise.. but the difference is still that Nintendo games r quite casual and Sony games r still games.

:lol Seriously?

Edit: The best part about your post is that you talk about how sony is still making 'proper' games and the only game you mention is a 2D platfomer.

 

[Mad_Ban]

Not only were your maths grossly incorrect, you fail to realize that the Ps3 division is not made up of just PS3s.

I HAD A DISCLAIMER DAMNIT!! T_T

 

[Vinci]

I HAD A DISCLAIMER DAMNIT!! T_T

Don't worry about it. If you've seen the movie Galaxy Quest, read DMeisterJ's 'you fail to realize' quote in the main villain's voice. 'You fail to realize that with your shields down..."

I've been laughing about it the last couple of minutes now.

 

[Baki]

I don't think the 360's situation in Europe is that much worse than the PS3's was in the US before the slim.

Your posts in this thread are making out as though the 360 wouldn't have any extra sales from a price drop + NATAl launch in Europe.

You are basically acting the same way people were about the PS3 pre slim launch.

The problem is, the Xbox 360 is already really cheap in Europe. (€209.99 which = $265 (incl. tax) for an Elite with two games , and €160 which = $200 for an Arcade) This is in comparison to a PS3 (120GB) for €299. SO my point is, there is already a large price gap between the PS3 and the Xbox 360 and that hasn't seemed to make a difference yet. In addition to this, theres only so much they can cut from the 360 pricing (remember these prices include 20% VAT tax!)

So my point is, although I do consider the possibility of revitilisation of the brand in Europe I personally would not bet on it.

 

[Man]

X360 Arcade is about the same as Nintendo DS in pricing (Scandinavia at least).

 

[lherre]

The problem is, the Xbox 360 is already really cheap in Europe. (€209.99 which = $265 (incl. tax) for an Elite with two games , and €160 which = $200 for an Arcade) This is in comparison to a PS3 (120GB) for €299. SO my point is, there is already a large price gap between the PS3 and the Xbox 360 and that hasn't seemed to make a difference yet. In addition to this, theres only so much they can cut from the 360 pricing (remember these prices include 20% VAT tax!)

So my point is, although I do consider the possibility of revitilisation of the brand in Europe I personally would not bet on it.

Here in spain (oficially) you have all elite packs at 199 €

And the arcades at 149 €

For example you have the Halo ODST + Forza 3 elite pack at 199 €

 

[StoOgE]

The PS3 is pacing ahead of the PS1 during their respective timelines both in software and hardware? Big question now is, can the PS3 leapfrog into a whole new level like the PS1 did?

Sure, and the video game industry was all but dead when the Saturn and PS1 launched. It took nearly a year to sell a million units for each.

 

[szaromir]

The problem is, the Xbox 360 is already really cheap in Europe. (€209.99 which = $265 (incl. tax) for an Elite with two games , and €160 which = $200 for an Arcade) This is in comparison to a PS3 (120GB) for €299. SO my point is, there is already a large price gap between the PS3 and the Xbox 360 and that hasn't seemed to make a difference yet. In addition to this, theres only so much they can cut from the 360 pricing (remember these prices include 20% VAT tax!)

And yet MS made ~720M $ in profits in the last four quarters, while Sony lost ~900M $. If MS feel like purchasing marketshare, they have alot ofroom to move, especially since they are most likely lauching a slim version in Fall.

But that's noteven the point. There's a lot of discussion about Natal, but we completely don't know what it's about yet - it certainly aims at Nintendo audience, but it needs to have games beyond Wii-too to reach all these people and we don't know what kind of games will be there. Most likely the same atrocious shit that Sony has shown for Move, but we don't know for sure until E3.

 

[Celine]

waiting for the Psychotext balance sheet update - seems like a good chance that PS brand is now in the red?

Seconded.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

So, last year, Sony's gaming division lost 843 million dollars?

:/ sucks to be them.

 

[GotEmRunnin]

PSN premium inbound.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

So, last year, Sony's gaming division lost 843 million dollars?

:/ sucks to be them.

They've basically lost all the money they made on PS1 and PS2.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

They've basically lost all the money they made on PS1 and PS2.

This was a really hard learned lesson for Sony.

I mean, off couse that's not exactly how you put it, since every year part of the profits gets diluted to the shareholders, but if you put it on a balance sheet, Sony screwed up big time in the last 4 years.

Unbelievable, every year we go "yeah, next year the PS3 will come back, make money, etc", but I think at this point, even they started profitting on the PS3, it just won't make it on the positive balance :/

 

[Spiegel]

Looks like PSP won't have a price drop this fiscal year (or ever).
Yeah, Sony doesn't give a fuck anymore.

On the other hand, it's pretty impressive to see a dead hardware selling the same as the X360.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

Looks like PSP won't have a price drop this fiscal year (or ever).
Yeah, Sony doesn't give a fuck anymore.

On the other hand, it's pretty impressive to see a dead hardware selling the same as the X360.

The PSP has MHF3 in Japan, it sure as hell isn't dead over there! Heck, I think this is the year the PSP finally outsells the DS in Japan (not happening in the rest of the world though :lol ). I don't think it happened last year, right?

 

[schuelma]

Well, as one of the biggest critics of Sony's estimates from last year, I shall eat my crow now.

And yeah 15M doesn't seem that crazy when you take into account they shipped 13 million this year without the Slim for much of that.

 

[hxa155]

now that I think about it, sony is in a very big trouble
hopefully they learned their lesson this gen

 

[Caramello]

Sony Forecasts Miss Estimates, Fuel Concern Over Europe Demand



Bloomberg

Now let me give you the information that is relevant here:

Oneda says: "The company stopped losing money from PS3 consoles in March and will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3, compared with a loss of about 50 billion yen in the year ended March 31."

Firstly let us work out what exactly he is saying.. He says that Sony lost 50 billion yen from PS3, does he mean the PS3 on its own lost that amount or is he saying the division that the PS3 is under lost that amount? Well here is the relevant information:


Networked Products & Services (GAME) (Millions of U.S. dollars)

-FY 2009: Operating Income (loss) $(893)


The division that houses the loss contributed by the PS3 made a net operating income loss of $893 million USD. $893 million USD converts to $82.54 billion Yen which is more than Oneda specified the PS3 contributed. One must then assume that the PS3 was entirely responsible for the $50 billion Yen loss he mentioned.

Now that we have that assumption, we can also fairly certainly make the claim that Oneda was also being specific about the PS3 when he said: "The company stopped losing money from PS3 consoles in March and will likely post an annual profit of at least 1 billion yen this year from PS3." So how much money is 1 billion Yen in USD? Well it's $10.82 Million USD.

So Sony expects to make $10.82 Million USD off of 15M PS3's. That means that from now until the end of March 2011, each PS3 sold would make Sony an average of 72 cents...

Interesting, no?

Now consider that Oneda said "PS3" and thus far, I've taken it to mean "PS3 hardware" and not "PS3 platform" as one would expect. To come to the conclusion that Sony are profiting 72 cents per PS3 without taking into account other profitable parts of the PS3 platform like peripherals and games. So one HAS to come to the conclusion that a price cut is on it's way and because I don't want to look deeper into the numbers right now, I'm not going to speculate how much that price cut will be but I'd assume $50 would be the safe bet.

 

[Flachmatuch]

This was a really hard learned lesson for Sony.

I mean, off couse that's not exactly how you put it, since every year part of the profits gets diluted to the shareholders, but if you put it on a balance sheet, Sony screwed up big time in the last 4 years.

Unbelievable, every year we go "yeah, next year the PS3 will come back, make money, etc", but I think at this point, even they started profitting on the PS3, it just won't make it on the positive balance :/

It's pretty similar with MS overall (although they will have lost less), but they're in a much better position as they have so much more money. Sony rushing head-first into the high cost model was an awesome thing for MS (which is imo why the early launch worked so well). I think things would be completely different if Sony waited for a couple more years with the PS3 and focused on the PS2 for two more years instead.

Simply put, competing on stuff that can be *bought* (ie. production values) is always better for the company that has more money. (And what follows from this logically is that companies that have lots of money always try to steer markets in this direction.) Sony can't afford to do that, this tactic only works for MS in this situation.

 

[NHale]

Development costs increased

That's true, but it's still not enough to say that 3+ millions copies is not something special.

I suppose I should adapt to this GAF sales-age since in the Alpha Protocol thread someone saying Mass Effect 2 sales are very poor because it sold 1.5 million. :lol

This was a really hard learned lesson for Sony.

I mean, off couse that's not exactly how you put it, since every year part of the profits gets diluted to the shareholders, but if you put it on a balance sheet, Sony screwed up big time in the last 4 years.

Unbelievable, every year we go "yeah, next year the PS3 will come back, make money, etc", but I think at this point, even they started profitting on the PS3, it just won't make it on the positive balance :/

Sony made a lot of mistakes with the PS3. They were arrogant to think people would line up to buy a console for $599/€499 and still they were selling it at a loss. Software lineup was pretty bad for the first 1 and 1/2 years, "GOWII as a PS3 launch title? No! Give them giant crabs and lair, they will buy it after getting a 2nd job".

Then to me one thing that we will never see in a financial report but has a lot of meaning to understand the failure of the PS3, it's the Blu-ray format. The PS3 was used by Sony as a trojan horse for winning the battle vs. HD-DVD, so the profits that now Sony takes from BD is in big part thanks to the PS3, but that doesn't appear as a profit of the games division, only as a loss due to the price of the BD drives.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Unbelievable, every year we go "yeah, next year the PS3 will come back, make money, etc", but I think at this point, even they started profitting on the PS3, it just won't make it on the positive balance :/

Umm... I could have sworn the only time that profit was talked about was when Kaz said in 2008 that they'd be profitable by 2010 (i.e.: Fiscal Year ending March 2011), and it looks like they're on track to do that if the Bloomberg article on their projections is true, so...

 

[tzare]

did i see it wrong or PS3 2009 software sales were higher than 360's? And that considering they have sold 4,5 million consoles less

 

[NHale]

did i see it wrong or PS3 2009 software sales were higher than 360's? And that considering they have sold 4,5 million consoles less

Yep.

 

[Baki]

And yet MS made ~720M $ in profits in the last four quarters, while Sony lost ~900M $. If MS feel like purchasing marketshare, they have alot ofroom to move, especially since they are most likely lauching a slim version in Fall.

But that's noteven the point. There's a lot of discussion about Natal, but we completely don't know what it's about yet - it certainly aims at Nintendo audience, but it needs to have games beyond Wii-too to reach all these people and we don't know what kind of games will be there. Most likely the same atrocious shit that Sony has shown for Move, but we don't know for sure until E3.

Well they're obviously making a profit from hardware sold in NA (where the bulk of their consoles are sold). In addition to the fact that XBL Gold has ~ 20M subscribers (so about $400 - 500M revenue from that).

My point is, yes they can cut the price in Europe but they do not have as much legroom there as they do NA since they are probably just about breaking even/making a small profit in Europe.

Regardless, a massive price difference has not made a difference thus far.

In regards to NATAL, I would not hold my breath regarding the software for it. MS does not have the internal studios that Nintendo/Sony have. So they are far more reliant on 3rd parties. And these are the same 3rd parties that have yet to produce any substantial hits on the Nintendo Wii which has an install base ~70M worldwide.

 

[EagleEyes]

Back in the PS2 era, if I would have said in the year 2009 that Microsoft would be making money in the gaming division and Sony would be losing almost a billion dollars, how many of you would have actually believed me? It would have seemed like some bizarro world. My how times have changed.

 

[ULTROS!]

It's interesting though that the PS3 is doing better than the PS1.

 

[jett]

Jeez how can they still be losing SO MUCH money.

 

[Baki]

It's interesting though that the PS3 is doing better than the PS1.

PS1 had a massive jump after '97. Started selling ~20M a year. Final Fantasy effect indeed. :lol

 

[deepbrown]

Back in the PS2 era, if I would have said in the year 2009 that Microsoft would be making money in the gaming division and Sony would be losing almost a billion dollars, how many of you would have actually believed me? It would have seemed like some bizarro world. My how times have changed.

By the looks of PS2 sales, we're still in the PS2 era

 

[Halvie]

What division Is BR under?

Doubt what they have earned from that has made up for all the losses, but surely it can offset some...