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[badcrumble]

Wow, Level 5 and Sony seriously want to do every possible thing wrong with this game.

edit: This isn't about this thread's specific issue, but I'll be curious to see how they deal with reviewers. Force them to play through WKC 1? Or specially enable them to skip straight to the second game? Either way, they're either forced to piss reviewers off (badly) or acknowledge that they shouldn't force people to play the first game again if they didn't keep their save file.

 

[Tylahedras]

I wonder how this has effected sales of other games on consoles.

Didn't the most recent MMA game have it? Did that fare compared to the year before?

How did Metal Gear multiplayer do?

 

[whatsinaname]

I just explained that this isn't true.

Before this plan:
- Customer buys UFC 2010 (new) for $59.99
- Customer trades in UFC for, say, $30
- Used customer buys UFC 2010 (used) for $54.99

After this plan:
- Customer buys UFC 2010 (new) for $59.99
- Customer trades in UFC for $20
- Used customer buys UFC 2010 (used) for $44.99
- Used customer optionally buys online pass for $10.

THQ makes more money, Gamestop makes the exact same amount, customer buying used pays the exact same amount (or less if they don't get online), customer trading game in gets less.

I understand what you're are saying, but have you looked at the other aspect of things here?

I (and I would guess a lot of other people) have a fixed budget for gaming. I like buying my games new.

So, I buy 6 games, at 60$. Trade them in for 30$ apiece, get back 180$ for three more new games. In the new scheme of things, I only get back 120$. That is 60$ less. Money I would have spent on another new game.

This move does take some money out of the new market. In the overall scheme of things, it may not even have changed anything. (revenue loss from decrease in new sales may balance out revenue gained from online licenses.)

So people saying 'I but new, so am not affected', you will be affected. (unless you buy new and keep all your games for ever.)


[All this is hypothetical and doesn't affect you if you just look at paying for games as a trip to the movie theatre. I buy games new after they drop to 30-40$ and treat them as a one time entertainment thing. That's why I like steam. All my gaming is about 6 months behind the new releases.]

 

[JudgeN]

So you keep all of your games. Want to sell one of these code unlock games? Well, that game you just bought is worth less. Less money to buy new games.

Yes I do, SO WHAT BIG WHOOP WANT TO FIGHT ABOUT IT !!!!!!!! :lol

:lol :lol :lol
Why are people defending this?

Want to sell the game (no code unlock) = you get $50
Want to sell the game (yes code unlock) = you get $45

You are paying the same amount for less product! Why is this so difficult to understand? That's less money to spend on new games. This is 100% bad for the consumer. It has zero benefit.

Has this been done before by gamestop/amazon or are these number just guess? I'm asking because I have no idea. If this has been done then I can understand your rage so continue.....


but if these are guess .....

 

[Seventy5]

double post. Why all the 500 errors?

 

[Seventy5]

To be fair to Sony, they actually did this before Online Pass was announced by having a $20 code for the newest SOCOM PSP. It's just that now this system has made its way to the PS3 as well.

Came in to post this. I'm buying this new so it doesn't matter to me. Honestly though, I see why pubs are doing this. Servers and bandwidth aren't free, so why should they offer those to players they don't make a dime off of? I buy used games, and if anything this highlights the issue of used game pricing more than anything else. If WKC was $30 used on day one, the online pass wouldn't be as bad, but to have to pay $64.00 + tax (game used plus tax, WKC 1 is STILL $45 used at Gamestop) you're better off buying new. I'm not against used game sales, but I also understand why publishers are so quick to hop on the bandwagon. Many games these days are full on services (WKC online was supported pretty well during my 70 hours of playing) and free service isn't free to pubs.

 

[Str0ngStyle]

Here's another question about this whole subject...

Because the developers/publishers theoretically are losing less money to used sales, shouldn't the new price of these games drop accordingly?

I just do not understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp for publishers. People (the market) wants the product they are selling but not at the price some are selling them for. That creates a market for games at a lower price. Publishers are like "fuck you you don't like our price then you don't play." Which to be fair is totally their right. Meanwhile, the industry as a whole is so unprofitable that their largest retail partner (Gamestop) decides to get into the used games business full steam and makes a killing. Consumers pay less for games, Gamestop makes more money. Win-win for everyone right???

Wrong. Publishers and developers got left in the cold for a large number of reasons and instead of looking inward and outward for solutions, they just pitch a fit and do shit like this.

Consumers want cheaper games. Because publishers are unwilling to provide this, they turn to the used market for example. If they kill off the used market, sure there is a CHANCE that those consumers will buy games new again. There is also a chance that they will go to independent games and make them rich. OR, there is also the chance that hey may just stop gaming altogether. You think publishers are losing money now?? Wait til they start pushing people out of gaming with shit like this. You ain't seen grown men piss and moan yet.

 

[alr1ght]

Came in to post this. I'm buying this new so it doesn't matter to me. Honestly though, I see why pubs are doing this. Servers and bandwidth aren't free, so why should they offer those to players they don't make a dime off of?

Yes it does.
Their server costs were paid for by the original purchaser.

 

[Polk]

In Poland there is no rental market for games. I didn't see it in France as well.

Rentals no (I won't count small shops like Robson and Świat Gier), but there are lots of used games on Allegro. True, it's not at a proportion of UK or US market, but still big considering how small Polish market is.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Rentals no (I won't count small shops like Robson and Świat Gier), but there are lots of used games on Allegro. True, it's not at a proportion of UK or US market, but still big considering how small Polish market is.

Yes, I agree on all count with Allegro - my 90% gaming purchases are done using that site. But notice the extraorbitant prices Saturn and MM charge - 20/30% more. And you see the games selling, otherwise they would give up on their gaming section.

Same is with US - lots of good deals on eBay. As someone said before, CL will always give you better deal. However, same like Saturn and MM example, you still see lots of poeple trading their games at Gamestop. They simply don't know any better.

 

[Owzers]

cool, i'll buy WKC 2 when it drops to $20 then.

when it drops to $20, new, there will be NO ONE playing online anyways.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Just popping in to say, if this is the future of online gaming, y'all can keep that shit. Online gaming is overrated to begin with. Give me quality AI (i.e., stop cutting corners w/ AI because "online is where it's at") and I'll never play online again anyway.

Remember when the lure of on-line was to play with real life people from far away to have more interaction than was possible in co-op?

There was laughter on the Earth in those days...

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Yes it does.
Their server costs were paid for by the original purchaser.

Right and it's not like it's more people on the servers. The original owner is no longer online and is replaced by the next person who bought it.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Edit: double post cause of 500's.

 

[Lebron]

They can fuck right off with that. The fact that you had to beat the first game in order to play the second was a dumb idea, but this even dumber.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

So this effects people who buy the game used....?

 

[Archaix]

So this effects people who buy the game used....?

Or people who borrow the game, or rent the game, or have a family member with a different ID who bought the game, or who want to sell the game...

 

[scitek]

Just curisous all you folks that are like "THIS IS EVIL, NEVER BUYING A GAME AGAIN."

Have you guys seen game companies economics lately? used game sales in japan are killing companies they NEED to do this to keep surviving.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Kasumi1970]

Since I buy my games, new. I don''t have a problem with this. They should have done this with all the psn games too, keeps people from sharing that one copy of the game.

 

[Seventy5]

Yes it does.
Their server costs were paid for by the original purchaser.

The online part of a game like this isn't just a server sitting in a room unattended. The first game got tons of support after it was released. If you buy a used cell phone, do you get to use AT&T's service for the price of the phone alone? Can you buy a used cable box and hook into Verizon's cable service without paying them?

 

[mclaren777]

Publishers are cracking the whip hard on the used game market.

Good. I fully support Sony/EA/whoever in this battle.

 

[Calcaneus]

This does nothing good for the consumer. The only consumers who aren't affected negatively by this are people who always buy their games new, never lend them out to anybody, never sell them, and never rent games.

And by "aren't affected negatively", I mean not affected at all. There are no benefits to this for us.

I would support fighting places like Gamestop who sell used games for $50 a week after its out, if the publishers would fight them directly. They would never dare do that, so they fight them indirectly by screwing us. Which is bullshit.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Or people who borrow the game, or rent the game, or have a family member with a different ID who bought the game, or who want to sell the game...

Hmmm.

I'm safe then.

 

[Sophia]

Or people who borrow the game, or rent the game, or have a family member with a different ID who bought the game, or who want to sell the game...

This is the real killer for me. I rent pretty close to all my game to see if I want them before I buy them. Guess which game I'm not buying now?

 

[alr1ght]

The online part of a game like this isn't just a server sitting in a room unattended. The first game got tons of support after it was released. If you buy a used cell phone, do you get to use AT&T's service for the price of the phone alone? Can you buy a used cable box and hook into Verizon's cable service without paying them?

You pay a monthly fee to access those.

One game sold new = +1 server cost
That game sold used = -1 server cost + 1 server cost = 1 copy using the server

The disc is not duplicated. There will be only 1 copy accessing the server regardless of how many times it is resold.

 

[bigmit3737]

This gen is turning out to be interesting.

 

[Seventy5]

You pay a monthly fee to access those.

One game sold new = +1 server cost
That game sold used = -1 server cost + 1 server cost = 1 copy using the server

The disc is not duplicated. There will be only 1 copy accessing the server regardless of how many times it is resold.

Like I said though, they are supporting the game after the initial server cost with new quests, items and stuff, at least they did in the first game. And you're paying a one time fee (with the game new, or online pass) to access their service. Why should people that Sony/EA/THQ don't make any money off of get to use that service for free?

 

[alr1ght]

Again, they already got their money for that copy (one copy sold=one person using the server). Free DLC usually gets me to keep a game as any value added feature should.

 

[Str0ngStyle]

The online part of a game like this isn't just a server sitting in a room unattended. The first game got tons of support after it was released. If you buy a used cell phone, do you get to use AT&T's service for the price of the phone alone? Can you buy a used cable box and hook into Verizon's cable service without paying them?

But now you are talking about a subscription service. Not the same thing

 

[Seventy5]

But now you are talking about a subscription service. Not the same thing

Both scenarios have you paying at least something for the service, be it monthly or the up front cost of the game new, or in this case for an online pass for a used copy.

Let's say you made an iphone game out of your pocket, and you provide online service for it and update it monthly. Would you be ok with people getting free copies or second hand copies of it (publishers make no money on the used sale) and using up your monthly bandwidth and getting the updates you're providing at your own cost? I really doubt most people would be ok with that.

 

[Wazzim]

This thread needs more hate.

 

[Brannon]

Eh. While Blur isn't part of this licensed activation, I still bought it new for $18 because it sure as hell wasn't worth $60 in my eyes. The vast majority of games in that price range aren't worth that price so I don't mind waiting as long as it takes to get it at the proper price.

Also, how does this affect services like Gamefly?

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Wow, Level 5 and Sony seriously want to do every possible thing wrong with this game.

edit: This isn't about this thread's specific issue, but I'll be curious to see how they deal with reviewers. Force them to play through WKC 1? Or specially enable them to skip straight to the second game? Either way, they're either forced to piss reviewers off (badly) or acknowledge that they shouldn't force people to play the first game again if they didn't keep their save file.

Apparently, killing it with fire or nuking it from orbit didn't quite cut it.

 

[YoungHav]

anyone that "supports" these used game fees for getting online are full of fucking shit and/or self-interested. The next time anyone sells you anything used, you better mail $5-$10 bucks to the manufacturer/company that makes the product, or stfu.

 

[Ninja-Matic]

So you think people shouldn't people allowed to sell things they purchase? Wow

By all means, yes.

You see... the game code does not change as it gets passed from hand to hand. The visual fidelity does not change with every used sale. The audio remains unchanged. Every facet of the game being played is just as it was the first time it was played.

Same with music.

Same with movies.

Same with all DIGITAL media.

Cars, houses, jewelery, etc - all show signs of wear and USE.

DIGITAL media, does not. No matter what the format. The physical disk might get scratched, etc. But you're not buying the plastic it's printed on.

 

[Lafiel]

Hate this (potential) trend in gaming.

Because it takes away the advantage that console games have over pc games.;_; also does WKC2 seriously require you to finish WKC1 to play it? :lol

 

[BobTheFork]

I don't see them bringing new customers to WKC 2 this way and they aren't going to get everyone back. Honestly I love crap game so often, but I ground out around 250 of WKC, recoiled in horror and I'm not going back!!!!!

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

By all means, yes.

You see... the game code does not change as it gets passed from hand to hand. The visual fidelity does not change with every used sale. The audio remains unchanged. Every facet of the game being played is just as it was the first time it was played.

Same with music.

Same with movies.

Same with all DIGITAL media.

Cars, houses, jewelery, etc - all show signs of wear and USE.

DIGITAL media, does not. No matter what the format. The physical disk might get scratched, etc. But you're not buying the plastic it's printed on.

Actually, legally speaking, you are. And once the plastic it's printed on is damaged sufficiently that it cannot run, you're shit out of luck.

Anyway, we've had this dance before with all the same participants. Some people for, some people against, some people think it will save the industry, some people think it will destroy it. No matter what a person thinks about it, it *is* coming, so all that remains is to see the outcome.

 

[Tideas]

This does nothing good for the consumer. The only consumers who aren't affected negatively by this are people who always buy their games new, never lend them out to anybody, never sell them, and never rent games.

And by "aren't affected negatively", I mean not affected at all. There are no benefits to this for us.

I would support fighting places like Gamestop who sell used games for $50 a week after its out, if the publishers would fight them directly. They would never dare do that, so they fight them indirectly by screwing us. Which is bullshit.

so basically, most of the general public

 

[Ninja-Matic]

The devs/publishers already got their money with the initial sale. They are not entitled to anything more than that.

And as has been pointed out several times, these devs/publishers don't give a flying shit about you if you are not satisfied with their product. They will not refund you. They don't care about your money so why the hell do you care about their's?

I get my money back 100% if I don't like a game.

I do it all the time at Gamestop with NEW games. Full refund.

Find the stores that allow this and take advantage of it. SIMPLE.

Devs DO care about your money, hahaha. That's the bottom line of every dev. Their job is to make a game to make money. YOUR money.

If not - trust me they'd be making games for free. :lol :lol :lol

That's not going to happen tho.

I'm still sticking to my story - someone tries to REsell my music without my permission, I sue. I've done it before and I'll do it again.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

so basically, most of the general public

Well if this is most of the general public, then the used industry must not be big enough for anyone to care about, right?

 

[Ninja-Matic]

Actually, legally speaking, you are. And once the plastic it's printed on is damaged sufficiently that it cannot run, you're shit out of luck.

Anyway, we've had this dance before with all the same participants. Some people for, some people against, some people think it will save the industry, some people think it will destroy it. No matter what a person thinks about it, it *is* coming, so all that remains is to see the outcome.

I've exchanged damaged disks to publishers for free. Your first point is moot. You buy the content ON the disk. The game, itself. The medium is just that - a medium and is not proprietary of the game that is on that media. You might pay a small fee for resources, but it is usually pennies when produced in extreme amounts like games are.

And by *is* coming... you mean like almost 2 decades ago, right? PC users have been through this for years, lol.

Where you guys been? :lol :lol :lol

 

[Massa]

so basically, most of the general public

If it was "most of the general public" then publishers wouldn't be spending time and money developing these schemes.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I've exchanged damaged disks to publishers for free. Your first point is moot. You buy the content ON the disk. The game, itself. The medium is just that - a medium and is not proprietary of the game that is on that media. You might pay a small fee for resources, but it is usually pennies when produced in extreme amounts like games are.

And by *is* coming... you mean like almost 2 decades ago, right? PC users have been through this for years, lol.

Where you guys been? :lol :lol :lol

The law says I'm buying the plastic. You want that to change? Take it up with the courts. It'll be a frosty day in hell before I let a corporation dictate my legal rights. As far as exchanges go, some companies do it, some companies don't. It's by no means standard practice to replace a damaged disc. And I imagine it would be even more difficult if that disc is several years old.

And you're right, the PC market has been through this. And my, it's certainly looking healthy these days, isn't it?

 

[Future]

I don't know if you are clueless or just plain stupid. If you care about the devs so much send them a check for 10 000 USD, GTFO from my wallet.

Get a job. Pay the extra 10 bones or GTFO. Call it the pay the people that actually made the game tax. I dont give a fuck about people whining about buying games used. Also dont give a fuck if it hurts the used market in any way. Hurts a bit for renters, but the fact that single player is not affected makes it ok to me. Although, a limited "trial" period could be used to ease those concerns

As usual, there is gonna be a vocal group whining about this. Reality is it only affects a minority. Doesnt affect new buyers, and only affects used buyers/renters that need to play online. Really curious how this works out in the long run. I think people will get used to it pretty quick

 

[alr1ght]

Get a job. Pay the extra 10 bones or GTFO. Call it the pay the people that actually made the game tax. I dont give a fuck about people whining about buying games used. Also dont give a fuck if it hurts the used market in any way. Hurts a bit for renters, but the fact that single player is not affected makes it ok to me. Although, a limited "trial" period could be used to ease those concerns

As usual, there is gonna be a vocal group whining about this. Reality is it only affects a minority. Doesnt affect new buyers, and only affects used buyers/renters that need to play online. Really curious how this works out in the long run. I think people will get used to it pretty quick

defend defend defend.

Doesnt affect new buyers

yes it does

and only affects used buyers/renters that need to play online

no

 

[Cynar]

Publishers that do this shit = no sale from me

 

[CadetMahoney]

defend defend defend.

Sales of this PS3 exclusive title will be watched by many I suspect to see how it fares in a market where not every game has this. Will this affect it's sales? Who knows.