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Sony Q4 2017 and FY17 results.

Leonidas

Member
According to figures released by Sony, the PS4 had sold through 73.6 million units as of December 31, 2017. A further 2.5 million units were sold in the quarter ended March 31, 2018, resulting in a combined total of 76.1 million.

In Q4, Sony's Games & Network Services division earned ¥445 billion in revenue, up 16.5 per cent over the prior year. Operating income was down 13 per cent to ¥19.6 billion.

The 2.5 million PS4s sold in the quarter represented a decrease for SIE, which sold 2.9 million in the prior quarter.

the more impressive growth was in subscribers to PlayStation Plus. At the end of Q4 in 2017, the service had 26.4 million subs; at the end of Q4 in 2018 it had 34.2 million subs, an increase of 23 per cent.

Source: gamesindustry.biz

714x-1


PS4 Hardware Shipments(numbers added from last years thread):
End of FY2016: 60.0 million.
FY2017 shipments: 19.0 million.
= 79.0 million (shipped end of March 2018)

Forecast for FY2018: 16.0 million = 95 million LTD forecast shipped by end of March 2019.
 
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Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Interesting, they're expecting a drop in sales for the new FY..

Despite a healthy market and a great likeup. Makes me think they will at least drop news of next gen, but that's just my gut feeling.

Back in 05 they demoed the PS3 a year and a half before release..
 

Quixz

Member
Interesting, they're expecting a drop in sales for the new FY..

Despite a healthy market and a great likeup. Makes me think they will at least drop news of next gen, but that's just my gut feeling.

Back in 05 they demoed the PS3 a year and a half before release..

Would be a bad idea this time round, PS4 shipments/sells would tank and hurt profit.
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Would be a bad idea this time round, PS4 shipments/sells would tank and hurt profit.

Good point... Although the PS2 continued to sell well for a long time, and the same would likely happen to the PS4 either way. I just thought it was interesting their projection's quite a bit lower for this new fiscal year. There must be plenty of reasons.
 

Leonidas

Member
Good point... Although the PS2 continued to sell well for a long time, and the same would likely happen to the PS4 either way. I just thought it was interesting their projection's quite a bit lower for this new fiscal year. There must be plenty of reasons.

PS2 situation was different. It was very cheap to produce and was selling at 1/4th the cost of next-gen machines.

PS4 reached it's peak in 2016. Consoles can't maintain record sells forever.
 
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Shin

Banned
They expect 16M PS4 shipped for the coming FY, I'd say we're still good as that's about the amount of Switches sold in it's first year.
So 2019 to 2020 their expectation might be around 10-12M, would put it at 104M by the time PS5 hits (assuming 2020 is the year).
That would put it in 4th place and catapulting past the original PlayStation (102.4M) and Wii 101.6M, I don't think it can catch GameBoy (118M).
Even with 6M per year from 2020-2023/2024 in developing countries and what's not, that's a climb that seems too steep as it will keep on declining YoY.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PS2 situation was different. It was very cheap to produce and was selling at 1/4th the cost of next-gen machines.

PS4 reached it's peak in 2016. Consoles can't maintain record sells forever.

So why are they expecting a drop in sales? Maybe it's due to the fact that they know they aren't dropping the price this FY.
 
How is the Pro selling? The numbers are for the 3 models combined, right? I'm very interested in whether this was a good idea or not.
 

Shin

Banned
How is the Pro selling? The numbers are for the 3 models combined, right? I'm very interested in whether this was a good idea or not.
Selling decently but XBOX might be selling better as a premium console despite being $100 more expensive, I hope Sony take note because I'd like a premium PS console.
The big take away from this report is that PS+ subscription jumped by 23% +-, if the growth keeps up PlayStation/Sony could be riding a perfect storm.

They need to fix mobile phone division though and listen more to their community that shit keeps bleeding and bleeding because keep ignoring what people want.
 

Leonidas

Member
So why are they expecting a drop in sales? Maybe it's due to the fact that they know they aren't dropping the price this FY.

The data shows that PS4 sales have peaked in 2016 and Q417 saw a decline from Q416, maybe they just see that trend continuing. There's not much room to drop price. Lowest I could see PS4 ever dropping to is $249(which was the lowest price of an HDD-enabled last gen console). Who knows how much impact that would have this late in the gen...
 
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AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
The data shows that PS4 sales have peaked in 2016. There's not much room to drop price. Lowest I could see PS4 ever dropping to is $249(which was the lowest price of an HDD-enabled last gen console), but I doubt that would have much impact...

That's ludicrous. They sold millions at $199 during the holidays. Then they raised the HD size rather than a price cut. They have $249 or $199 to go to still, but why give up margin when SW is selling the systems? Xbox has had a soft price drop to $200-$270 for months, but maybe they are trying to clear out the channels. They still have many old bundles with 500GB systems. If the XB1-S was strictly $299 like the MSRP, sales would drop.
 

Leonidas

Member
That's ludicrous. They sold millions at $199 during the holidays. Then they raised the HD size rather than a price cut. They have $249 or $199 to go to still, but why give up margin when SW is selling the systems? Xbox has had a soft price drop to $200-$270 for months, but maybe they are trying to clear out the channels. They still have many old bundles with 500GB systems. If the XB1-S was strictly $299 like the MSRP, sales would drop.

I doubt PS4 ever reaches $199 MSRP. PS3 with HDD included never dropped below $249...
 
Sony bringing in over $2b each year (approximately) from PS+ subs and growing.

And yet I still can't change my PSN ID.
 
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AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
I doubt PS4 ever reaches $199 MSRP. PS3 with HDD included never dropped below $249...

Different components. The Cell + RX were expensive, not to mention the introduction of Blu-Ray. One started at $600 and the other $400, so they could have different potential min prices after the same time.
 

Leonidas

Member
Different components. The Cell + RX were expensive, not to mention the introduction of Blu-Ray. One started at $600 and the other $400, so they could have different potential min prices after the same time.

The $250 PS3 Slim in 2011 was well after the introduction of Blu-Ray. The beginning price of PS3 is irrelevant. You are cherry picking a few components without knowing the actual cost of those components and are ignoring the cost of 8 GDDR5 modules(which has increased compared to previous years). Also $250 in 2011 is closer to $300 in 2018.
 
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Elios83

Member
I doubt PS4 ever reaches $199 MSRP. PS3 with HDD included never dropped below $249...

It will. It already has through official promotions last year.
They just need a further internal revision to cut manufacturing costs.
Btw PS4 is on track to surpass PS3 this year and Psone next year.
The 16m forecast seems to be conservative, it's basically the minimum they expect factoring in a natural decline in sales for a system in its fifth year on the market. Probably they are also not planning to make significant permanent price cuts this year. Maybe just 50$ off during fall with ad hoc holiday promotions.


Edit:
By the way since this quarter Sony is disclosing more stuff in their supplemental information material:
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/17q4_supplement.pdf

As you can see they're disclosing their digital sales and last quarter they reached an amazing 43% of total software sales.

g0Dovx0.png
 
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Leonidas

Member
It will. It already has through official promotions last year.
They just need a further internal revision to cut manufacturing costs.
Btw PS4 is on track to surpass PS3 this year and Psone next year.
The 16m forecast seems to be conservative, it's basically the minimum they expect factoring in a natural decline in sales for a system in its fifth year on the market. Probably they are also not planning to make significant permanent price cuts this year. Maybe just 50$ off during fall with ad hoc holiday promotions.

It's possible but those are still holiday sales. PS3 and 360 with HDD only reached $199 last gen in those holiday sales.
 
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zeorhymer

Member
Hmm...almost a 50% increase revenue under "Network Services." I wonder what the services entail. I'm sure the big wigs will definitely look into expanding that category.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
The $250 PS3 Slim in 2011 was well after the introduction of Blu-Ray. The beginning price of PS3 is irrelevant. You are cherry picking a few components without knowing the actual cost of those components and are ignoring the cost of 8 GDDR5 modules(which has increased compared to previous years). Also $250 in 2011 is closer to $300 in 2018.

Sorry, I didn't realize you worked for Sony and knew their BOM cost. They have sold for $199 and not lost their pants. The PS3 was an over engineered console with new technology. It is a bad data point to use to project future PS4 prices.
 

Elios83

Member
Hmm...almost a 50% increase revenue under "Network Services." I wonder what the services entail. I'm sure the big wigs will definitely look into expanding that category.

If you open the pdf it is explained in the note:

Network Services includes the network revenues Sony recognizes through the PlayStation™Network other than Game Software such as PlayStation®Plus, PlayStation™Video, PlayStation™Music, PlayStation™Now and PlayStation™Vue.
 

Leonidas

Member
Xbox one s at $189 says hi. Even without holidays it was going for $229.

Both of those are temporary sale prices. Same with PS4 Slim which was temporarily available for $199 and more often but still temporarily available at $249. PS3 Slim w/ HDD last gen had multiple Black Friday's at $199 with no true price cut. Basically the same thing has happened this gen up to this point.

If $199 MSRP happens for PS4 it will be after PS5 is out IMO.
 

Bryank75

Banned
Great results, it's interesting that investors don't pay much attention to Sony... we didn't even cover them for proxy season, nor have we ever. While we cover a multitude of obscure companies from all over.
I really think there should be more excitement around the stock and its potential. Solid investment IMO. Yen is the only issue.
 
As Sony says in the supplemental info, the PS4 sale through are estimates, and why did you leave it showing yen, translate it to Dollar, so people can clearly see the company doesnt make much.... yearly income = one quarter for google or MS.
 

thelastword

Banned
So why are they expecting a drop in sales? Maybe it's due to the fact that they know they aren't dropping the price this FY.
Perhaps just going by or stating what is typical for year 5 for PS consoles.... However this is no ordinary year 5, I think Sony has a chance to break even the highest hardware year in 2016, so yes, they're being ultra conservative here..... I believe GOW sales and it's push in April is already a great start for FY Q1 2018. Spiderman will push quite a few consoles next quarter and of course RDR and even the multiplat Spyro will push quite a few consoles when they land. That's not even counting a potential Dreams release date and other firm dates and announcements at this year's E3...Of course, there's always Q3 deals where PS4 vanilla should be found at $249 or lower and PRO at $299. Yet, what will drive PS4 beyond 16m this FY is certainly the software, this is without a doubt Sony's biggest year in terms of blockbuster titles......

The way I see it, they are already pretty good with their software stack this year. They should only release Days Gone in 2018 if it's ready and as polished as it could be, but I see Days Gone releasing in 2019 along with TLOU 2, Syphon Filter and Ghosts of Tsushima to round up that year, just in time for devs to completely shift over development to PS5 for a November 2020 release, even Dreams will be fine to release in 2019. So yes, since 2018 is already covered with lots of first parties and even third party exclusives to round it out and 2019 is basically the same...All arrows point to a 2020 PS5, which is where we will be seeing FF7 remake and Horizon 2, as most certainly, the former is not happening this gen.... But yes, 2018 is looking very strong from a sales perspective, relative to hardware and software sales alike.

One interesting thing I've always mentioned, is digital growth.... I always told folk that PSN is ridiculous when it comes to digital sales, I never had the stats till now barring some Ubisoft slides a few years ago, when I felt things were racking up on PS3. This gen however, the ease of pre-ordering and installs, every game being on the store, the frequent PSN sales with the plus discounts is really reeling people in the digital scape. I always used my own anecdote, to describe how I felt digital distribution was rising this gen. In essence, I have no discs for my PS4 barring Killzone Shadowfall from launch day, yet I still bought a digital copy including intercept on one of the PSN sales. I have no idea if my PS4 bluray drive still works tbh, he he!....I mean a 43% split to digital sales last quarter is pretty telling and the general uptick in digital sales in FY 2017 is a huge improvement over prior years. It's no wonder Sony made about twice the revenue of MS and Nintendo as far as gaming goes.....

It's crazy too, because, another thing which saw huge growth was PSN subs, an uptick of 8 million subs from last FY to this one, that is insane. PSN subs are at 34.2 million, which is in the general ball park of total XBOX-ONE sales. In esssence, this is close to half of the total PS installbase being plus subscribers. Yet, as impressive as these numbers are, It's also interesting that these numbers could easily be higher, (not putting any ideas in Sony's coporate head ;))..... but a juggernaut like fortnite is not behind a paywall and pretty much all F2P games on PSN are not, thankfully of course. Yet, they could have made even more bank if they taxed all those fortnite players...... In general, very interesting information from this report, especially when many analysts declared the gaming industry would implode and suffer a breakdown just prior to this gen. The PS4 is on track to get to 100 million way before the PS2 did, not too shabby innit?

As for a potential price drop this year, I don't see it, barring temporary price drops for the holidays. I do however see a price drop coming in 2019 though, even early on, perhaps with a PRO slim and a slimmer base model. I just don't see why they should drop the price yet, it's selling comfortably ahead of the competition, even in non blockbuster months, so they would be amiss to pass on that profit for numbers so soon, which they also happen to be ahead of the competiton by a country mile also. The way I see it, Sony should just rake in the profits for now, they will surely need the R&D funds for a very formidable PS5 in 2020 and it's launch. So, they should not lower the price of PS4 to $199 till they reach the 100 million milestone, which also happens to be in 2019, which is when they would have past that milestone. At that point, they could rely on the mass market buying PS4 in droves as they did PS2's, which means a very attractive value proposition late in the cycle at $199 with lots of great software to choose from. When all is said and done, I could see PS4 doing 140-150 million units total. Perhaps even more.....

So yes, with a PS4 at mass market in early 2019 and perhaps even further reduced to $179.99-149.99 in early 2020. Sony would be full fledged into PS5 development from as early as their price drop to $199 in 2019 to mid 2019. Most of their big studios would be rounding their projects on PS4 that year, so I see most shifting to full fledged PS5 development by then.....One thing's for sure, even then, PS4 will be selling very well when those last big exclusives hit in 2019 and it won't depreciate too much in 2020 due to further price cuts.....PS4 will only stop selling when PS5 lands, especially if PS5 has PS4-BC....Yet a cheap console with lots of great software has proven to continue to sell even with new hardware at the gates ;)....Interesting times ahead indeed......
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
As Sony says in the supplemental info, the PS4 sale through are estimates, and why did you leave it showing yen, translate it to Dollar, so people can clearly see the company doesnt make much.... yearly income = one quarter for google or MS.

... and? Sony has never been the size of Google or MS... and MS is nowhere near the size of Apple. PS4 shipments continue to be large, stores are not overflowing with them so then extremely stuffing the channels does not seem likely.., their estimated sell through is likely not very far off the mark.

I am not sure what the point here is (in a gaming related discussion about Sony’s yearly results... beyond a “guys guys the news are not as good as you think” ;)...), the console has been selling very well, bested its competition, and helped prop the entire company’s financials more than once.
 

lynux3

Member
As Sony says in the supplemental info, the PS4 sale through are estimates, and why did you leave it showing yen, translate it to Dollar, so people can clearly see the company doesnt make much.... yearly income = one quarter for google or MS.
Why don't you compare apples to apples and show us Sony's PlayStation division income/profit versus Microsoft's Xbox division income/profit. I'll wait.
 

EDMIX

Member
Well when they are coming out with the most new AAA IP out of the first party, what do we expect?

Days Gone
Horizon
Until Dawn
RIGS
Death Stranding
Gravity Rush
Ghost of Tsushima
Bloodborne

and many more, the fact that the list isn't even complete and we can go "many more" only shows how deep they hit it out of the park this gen. So close to 100 million, right now I think they are even beating PS2 based on the time frame.
 

Bryank75

Banned
As Sony says in the supplemental info, the PS4 sale through are estimates, and why did you leave it showing yen, translate it to Dollar, so people can clearly see the company doesnt make much.... yearly income = one quarter for google or MS.

Sony has a lot of R&D investment and reinvestments in films etc, also Sony is highly diversified compared to both the companies you mentioned. Sony have a very different philosophy to those companies also, built on a standard of high quality, and cutting edge engineering and creativity.
The PlayStation business was not so good at the start of generation 7 for instance but by slow and steady improvements and providing excellent exclusives at great cost to themselves, they regained the faith of the core gamers which has resulted in their dominant position currently.
Trust or faith is something I certainly wouldn’t associate with google or Microsoft.... it’s a bit like the story of the hare and the tortoise.
 

Aaron Olive

Member
Selling decently but XBOX might be selling better as a premium console despite being $100 more expensive, I hope Sony take note because I'd like a premium PS console.
The big take away from this report is that PS+ subscription jumped by 23% +-, if the growth keeps up PlayStation/Sony could be riding a perfect storm.

They need to fix mobile phone division though and listen more to their community that shit keeps bleeding and bleeding because keep ignoring what people want.
I agree, the PS4 Pro is just full retard loud when playing GOW, would love a better built premium PS4 like Xbox One X where it’s inaudible cause I would buy it.
 

thelastword

Banned
Selling decently but XBOX might be selling better as a premium console despite being $100 more expensive, I hope Sony take note because I'd like a premium PS console.
There is no evidence of that, selling means there's precedent or continuity. It's strange posting this since the OP is filled with stats, when MS has been very shoddy with numbers from their stable this generation. We don't even have a concrete number for sold XBOX-ONE units directly from MS. All we know is that XBONEX shipped more units at launch than PRO did at launch.....And we all know at PRO's launch there was some shortages, I preordered mine early and got it day 1, but soon after I read many reports of the console being out of stock and I confirmed it on Amazon. So, this is no reason to state the XBONEX is selling better than the PRO. Moreover, when the XBONEX launched, if it sold more than PRO, that's to be expected since there was a bigger divide from vanilla XBOX-ONE-S to X in terms of specs, so more people would feel the need to upgrade, yet that's not evidence or stats is it..... I'm not even sure sales were as great as MS anticipated since PS4 still outsold Xbox hardware in November 2017 (X's launch month), and we have not heard a peep from MS on the mid-gen console's performance. They won't even give numbers on XBOX-ONE S sales which should be doing much better than X at sub $250 prices on many occasions recently even......
 
Sony screwed heavily and will stagnate because of the PS4 Slim/Pro fragmentation and dichotomy.

That's why I'm betting hard that they will release a new model in 2019 (since they release one every 3 years now), and then the PS5 in 2021/22.
 

WaterAstro

Member
Well when they are coming out with the most new AAA IP out of the first party, what do we expect?

Days Gone
Horizon
Until Dawn
RIGS
Death Stranding
Gravity Rush
Ghost of Tsushima
Bloodborne

and many more, the fact that the list isn't even complete and we can go "many more" only shows how deep they hit it out of the park this gen. So close to 100 million, right now I think they are even beating PS2 based on the time frame.
Man, you missed two big ones. TLOU2 and Spiderman.
 

Leocarian

Banned
Sony screwed heavily and will stagnate because of the PS4 Slim/Pro fragmentation and dichotomy.

That's why I'm betting hard that they will release a new model in 2019 (since they release one every 3 years now), and then the PS5 in 2021/22.

You are delusional if you think there will be another new ps4 model. And 2021/2022 for Ps5? Delusional, way to late lol. Funny.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Sony screwed heavily and will stagnate because of the PS4 Slim/Pro fragmentation and dichotomy.

That's why I'm betting hard that they will release a new model in 2019 (since they release one every 3 years now), and then the PS5 in 2021/22.

What nonsense are you spewing? They have two models that play the same games, there is no third model. There will be a PS5 (duh), but what does that have to do with you fragmentation BS? BTW you don't know what dichotomy means, so pick smaller words next time.
 

Imtjnotu

Member
Sony screwed heavily and will stagnate because of the PS4 Slim/Pro fragmentation and dichotomy.

That's why I'm betting hard that they will release a new model in 2019 (since they release one every 3 years now), and then the PS5 in 2021/22.
what in the hell are you talking about
 

Wonkytonk

Member
Sony screwed heavily and will stagnate because of the PS4 Slim/Pro fragmentation and dichotomy.

That's why I'm betting hard that they will release a new model in 2019 (since they release one every 3 years now), and then the PS5 in 2021/22.

No mate, behave.
 

The Shepard

Member
So the ps4 is on course to beat the ps3 soon in sales and the ps1 next year. I doubt it will ever catch the ps2 up.

If I was sony I'd have 2 Ps5 models at launch in 2020, a 4k and 1080p machine, both fully backwards compatible with at least the ps4 (I'd love all the other playstations personally but cost) and I'd buy the 4k one at launch 100%. It also needs a better cooling system because they do go jet engine loud after a while.. And it's annoying.

Edit: imagine having a store with virtually every playstation game ever made to play on one console. Hopefully they Copy Microsofts way of backwards compatibility.
 
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lynux3

Member
So the ps4 is on course to beat the ps3 soon in sales and the ps1 next year. I doubt it will ever catch the ps2 up.

If I was sony I'd have 2 Ps5 models at launch in 2020, a 4k and 1080p machine, both fully backwards compatible with at least the ps4 (I'd love all the other playstations personally but cost) and I'd buy the 4k one at launch 100%. It also needs a better cooling system because they do go jet engine loud after a while.. And it's annoying.

Edit: imagine having a store with virtually every playstation game ever made to play on one console. Hopefully they Copy Microsofts way of backwards compatibility.
Why not just keep the PS4 Pro around for the 1080p machine duties with the option of outputting at 4K? That makes more sense to me. I agree though the PS5 has to be backwards compatible with PS4.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get BC like Microsoft is doing, but I'd like to have it. Sometimes I think about stuff like why doesn't Sony hire or hit up these PCSX2 and RPCS3 devs to bring emulators to their system? They seem to be pretty good at what they're doing and it's a lot better than the half ass PS2 emulator on the PS4 now.
 

The Shepard

Member
Why not just keep the PS4 Pro around for the 1080p machine duties with the option of outputting at 4K? That makes more sense to me. I agree though the PS5 has to be backwards compatible with PS4.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get BC like Microsoft is doing, but I'd like to have it. Sometimes I think about stuff like why doesn't Sony hire or hit up these PCSX2 and RPCS3 devs to bring emulators to their system? They seem to be pretty good at what they're doing and it's a lot better than the half ass PS2 emulator on the PS4 now.

I do understand what your saying but I think it may be to confusing for the casual gamer. PS5 games work on the ps4 pro but not the ps4 slim? The pro would also hold back the ps5 especially when it comes to the cpu, I'm hoping for a decent upgrade there as we really didn't get anything with the pro or even the one x.
 

onQ123

Member
So the ps4 is on course to beat the ps3 soon in sales and the ps1 next year. I doubt it will ever catch the ps2 up.

If I was sony I'd have 2 Ps5 models at launch in 2020, a 4k and 1080p machine, both fully backwards compatible with at least the ps4 (I'd love all the other playstations personally but cost) and I'd buy the 4k one at launch 100%. It also needs a better cooling system because they do go jet engine loud after a while.. And it's annoying.

Edit: imagine having a store with virtually every playstation game ever made to play on one console. Hopefully they Copy Microsofts way of backwards compatibility.


If they don't kill off the PS4 for business reasons it should have about 5 good years of sales left in it & get pretty close to PS2 if it's not a big drop in sales.
 

The Shepard

Member
If they don't kill off the PS4 for business reasons it should have about 5 good years of sales left in it & get pretty close to PS2 if it's not a big drop in sales.
Its certainly possible but I'd definitely be more supprised if it did. The PlayStation 2 killed off the competition that generation, there was none, a one horse race. This generation has the switch, pc, mobile and even the xbox one eating the potential customers up. Time will tell and it would be nice to see the ps2 sales finally beat. They'd need to sell another 70 plus million consoles though.
 
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onQ123

Member
Its certainly possible but I'd definitely be more supprised if it did. The PlayStation 2 killed off the competition that generation, there was none, a one horse race. This generation has the switch, pc, mobile and even the xbox one eating the potential customers up. Time will tell and it would be nice to see the ps2 sales finally beat. They'd need to sell another 70 plus million consoles though.


I wouldn't say it's going to beat it but PS4 having a online store & harddrive should keep it on the market for a little while because it's going to be hard for devs to turn away from a 100 million + install base unless they have to.
 
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