Yup that's what i think is best too. No need for a second Dock at retail which might confuse consumers.
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Speculating about a Nintendo Switch mini
- Thread starter jts
- Start date
Yup that's what i think is best too. No need for a second Dock at retail which might confuse consumers.
Taking the "Switch" part out makes it a harder sell for parents buying for their kids, not an easier sell.
Right now it's perfect for parents with kids because instead of buying them a portable and a console they just need the one thing that does both. Removing that makes it a much worse value proposition.
Right now it's perfect for parents with kids because instead of buying them a portable and a console they just need the one thing that does both. Removing that makes it a much worse value proposition.
bahamut zero
Member
Would only buy if it's the same size as the GBA mini.
That's going to be a mess.
Did you know that Pro Controllers didn't work with Blaster Master Zero? It had to be patched in at a later date to be able to play the game with one.
Binding Of Isaac also requires a patch to use the pro controller. My friend with extremely limited internet access found out the hard way.
I think a good first step towards second screen gaming would be a Splatoon app for 3DS that turns it into a Splatoon controller. The touchscreen would serve as the map for quick jumps and you would play the game in tabletop mode or on TV.
It's not unprecedented, Smash 4 had a similar feature, not for a second screen but to facilitate 8 player mode.
Later they could release grips with a second screen between the joycons, holding your smartphone or the main unit from the smaller portable only Switch variant I'm proposing.
RoombaDance
Member
I also think this is the most probable way forward.
Nintendo can't retire the 3DS until they have another sub-$200 machine. So they'll probably continue to make more console down-ports until they have a Switch that looks more like a GBA. The switch is a mobile console, but it's not yet a true handheld.
That's why even if they talk about the Switch as a unified handheld console platform they continue to support the 3DS. I haven't seen much slowdown in game releases yet (but maybe for next year).
Nintendo can't retire the 3DS until they have another sub-$200 machine. So they'll probably continue to make more console down-ports until they have a Switch that looks more like a GBA. The switch is a mobile console, but it's not yet a true handheld.
That's why even if they talk about the Switch as a unified handheld console platform they continue to support the 3DS. I haven't seen much slowdown in game releases yet (but maybe for next year).
Question:
Let's say they end up making a Switch revision which is the Switch Mini like in the OP.
You get your Switch body with integrated Joy-Cons that cannot be removed etc etc.
Nintendo price drops regular Switch to $250, Switch Mini is $150. (Don't know if it's realistic, just giving a huge gap in price between the two.)
There you go, you have your cheaper Switch handheld now, what about the cost of games though?
Everyone was saying how important it is that there needs to be a smaller Switch so it's cheaper for kids. Okay you got it, but now Switch games are $60 compared to $40 for 3DS.
How is it supposed to be cheaper for kids when games are now more expensive to buy for a handheld?
Let's say they end up making a Switch revision which is the Switch Mini like in the OP.
You get your Switch body with integrated Joy-Cons that cannot be removed etc etc.
Nintendo price drops regular Switch to $250, Switch Mini is $150. (Don't know if it's realistic, just giving a huge gap in price between the two.)
There you go, you have your cheaper Switch handheld now, what about the cost of games though?
Everyone was saying how important it is that there needs to be a smaller Switch so it's cheaper for kids. Okay you got it, but now Switch games are $60 compared to $40 for 3DS.
How is it supposed to be cheaper for kids when games are now more expensive to buy for a handheld?
The argument many make (and one I'm in agreement with) is that the "mini switch" with a form factor that matches previous dedicated handhelds as well as a lower price would thus replace the 3ds.
I don't think the Switch will get a price cut. Not anytime soon and maybe not ever.
The smaller variant will be the price cut. Or rather, the more affordable version. Which will come at the price of TV gaming.
Green Yoshi
Member
How much more power is needed to display a 3D image? A Switch 3D would be really neat, I always liked the 3D effect on the 3DS.
That wasn't the point of the question though when I didn't even say when this would happen.
Too much. But I can see them using such a feature for AR games. Which would be exclusive to a Switch 3D.
Yes, you're right. I just felt the need to respond to the proposed prices. I don't see Nintendo dropping the price. It's more likely they take hints from Sony and just replace the SKU with one with more internal memory for example, at the same price.
I Stalk Alone
Member
I can see Nintendo releasing up to five different hardware form factors over the next three years.
Nintendo Switch 720p 30 900p 60 tegra x1 249 April 2018 April 2019 $199
Nintendo Switch Pro 900p 30 1080p60 tegra x+ 299 april 2018 $249 april 2019
Nintendo Switch mini 900p tegra x+ $199 oct 2018 oct 2019 $169
Nintendo Switch Home 1080p60 tegra x+, pro controller no screen home console only $199 april 2019
Switch home doubles as SCD for those with an original switch or switch pro or switch mini. Doubling performance
Nintendo Switch ultimate basically a Nintendo Switch Pro and a Nintendo Switch home together in one sku with both pro and switch controllers, $349. October 2019 basically a $100 savings for those who haven't jumped in yet
2020 will basically be cost cutting and bundling and os upgrades.
2021 will see Nintendo Switch 2 plays all old switch games new games don't have to be compatible with old switch, however switch sous with tegra x+ can play some games at 720p30 max.
Having one software platform makes hardware iterations less risky to introduce as they all play the same software. However, the hardware iterations cannot be too far away from each other so we won't be seeing a 4k model until switch 2 comes out and this way switch 2 games can still be played even if the jump is 8x the power in 2021. Software developers for switch 2 will have the benefit of still being able to choose compatibility for older models to increase possibility of sales. Some fanatics may even do ke or triple dip on hardware because they have a fear of missing out, but having these options on the same games increases its reach to the public. Nintendo can also play around with different price points.
I could also see a 3DS Nintendo Switch fusion device in 2019 that is basically a Nintendo Switch with 2 screens in a detachable clamshell configuration for $299. second screen can detach via docking points disabling 3ds mode. Sold for $99 on its own and using a tegra x1 and is 3d capable. Can play ds and 3ds games. Can also double as a virtual console player up to wii era games if you attach Nintendo Switch controllers to it.
All hardware form factors use only either tegra x1 or the successor which is a 16nm variant, new chip will not be more than 2-3x the power of x1 docked.
This way nvidia gets some good profits using same architecture for 5 years and software developer have less headaches with different form factors, only having to think about 720p 30,60 900p 30,60 and 1080p 30,60 as settings to allow depending on hardware form factor.
Nintendo Switch 720p 30 900p 60 tegra x1 249 April 2018 April 2019 $199
Nintendo Switch Pro 900p 30 1080p60 tegra x+ 299 april 2018 $249 april 2019
Nintendo Switch mini 900p tegra x+ $199 oct 2018 oct 2019 $169
Nintendo Switch Home 1080p60 tegra x+, pro controller no screen home console only $199 april 2019
Switch home doubles as SCD for those with an original switch or switch pro or switch mini. Doubling performance
Nintendo Switch ultimate basically a Nintendo Switch Pro and a Nintendo Switch home together in one sku with both pro and switch controllers, $349. October 2019 basically a $100 savings for those who haven't jumped in yet
2020 will basically be cost cutting and bundling and os upgrades.
2021 will see Nintendo Switch 2 plays all old switch games new games don't have to be compatible with old switch, however switch sous with tegra x+ can play some games at 720p30 max.
Having one software platform makes hardware iterations less risky to introduce as they all play the same software. However, the hardware iterations cannot be too far away from each other so we won't be seeing a 4k model until switch 2 comes out and this way switch 2 games can still be played even if the jump is 8x the power in 2021. Software developers for switch 2 will have the benefit of still being able to choose compatibility for older models to increase possibility of sales. Some fanatics may even do ke or triple dip on hardware because they have a fear of missing out, but having these options on the same games increases its reach to the public. Nintendo can also play around with different price points.
I could also see a 3DS Nintendo Switch fusion device in 2019 that is basically a Nintendo Switch with 2 screens in a detachable clamshell configuration for $299. second screen can detach via docking points disabling 3ds mode. Sold for $99 on its own and using a tegra x1 and is 3d capable. Can play ds and 3ds games. Can also double as a virtual console player up to wii era games if you attach Nintendo Switch controllers to it.
All hardware form factors use only either tegra x1 or the successor which is a 16nm variant, new chip will not be more than 2-3x the power of x1 docked.
This way nvidia gets some good profits using same architecture for 5 years and software developer have less headaches with different form factors, only having to think about 720p 30,60 900p 30,60 and 1080p 30,60 as settings to allow depending on hardware form factor.
Ehh? I'd rather have a price drop than to have them increase the internal memory from 32GB to 64GB.
It's much cheaper for me to buy a 256GB or 512GB microSDXC in two years than to have Nintendo double the internal memory which is a fraction of those sizes.
Nostremitus
Member
Oh, I'm not expecting the mini until they get a die shrink. The technology already exists to do so. Hell, one might say it's already mature. I also don't expect 4 inches. It'd more likely be 5 or 5.5, just small enough to be pocketable. The HD rumble would still easily fit.
So no, they don't have to sacrifice any of it. The smaller node would use less power and produce less heat for the same performance.
The node was the main reason people were hoping it was Pascal instead of Maxwell.
1. Shrinking from 20 to 16nm would free up space by reducing cooling requirements.
2. Did to 2DS undermine the concept of the 3DS?
I got confused just reading all this. Can't imagine how your average consumer would view it all!
I'm not arguing what I want here (well except when I'm pushing for 3d maybe, lol) but what I think Nintendo will do.
Iwata said dropping the price is betraying the customers who bought early at the higher price. It is also not a good expectation for customers to have that it will get cheaper anyway down the line. Such customers will wait. If there is no such outlook and that cannot be expected, there is no need to wait. Giving people a reason to wait isn't good business strategy.
xxbrothawizxx63
Member
I want them to do this, but using the wireless tech they developed for the Wii U. That was my dream for the Switch. I loved the rumors we had heard about a dongle. Not sure how much they'd have to tweak that tech to push it 720p though.
PSFan
Member
Well, Iwata is wrong. Launch customers should understand what they are getting into when buying any product on day 1. And I think most customers who buy on launch, DO understand that things like that can happen, and don't get mad.
jts
...hate me...
What Iwata said and Nintendo did needs to be understood in the context of the 3DS price dropping full $80 within 6 months of launch. It's not the trivial price drop all consoles face sooner or later. It's a whole 1/3 of the price dropped within months and the full-on admission that the 3DS came out with the wrong MSRP and they needed to fix it. Obviously that kind of price drop will piss the early adopters that bought it at the "wrong price". Imagine the PS4 dropping to $270 5-6 months after launch. That's the equivalent of what happened with the 3DS.
But for the the price to drop gradually over the years? No. That's normal and acceptable.
I don't even think full compatibility in both ways and same branding is a necessity.
For example if they have that portable named differently, not compatible with the motion control games and without the dock ability. It's perfectly fine if it's just a portable.
And games would still be all compatible with the Swich.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure down the line, in 5 years, the numbers of motion control game for Switch won't reach 5 lol.
For example if they have that portable named differently, not compatible with the motion control games and without the dock ability. It's perfectly fine if it's just a portable.
And games would still be all compatible with the Swich.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure down the line, in 5 years, the numbers of motion control game for Switch won't reach 5 lol.
I Stalk Alone
Member
Basically the same as all the different android mobile and non mobile configurations. People will only care for what they want and can afford.
Not even saying if an SCD is at all possible, but if it was that's the route and pricepoints I would go for. It helps the development community as well as it is one software platform for all the different hardware choices. I would also release a snes mini down the line.
Let's​ see.
Games that use motion controls on Switch:
Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild
Splatoon 2
ARMS
Just Dance 2017
1-2 Switch
1-2 Switch is the only game based on motion control, maybe with Just dance i don't know. Even ARMS can be played without it.
jts
...hate me...
A handheld can still have a gyro. I think he means games that demand to use the Joy-cons as motion controllers. Only Just Dance 2017 and 1-2 Switch I think?
Are there any other goalposts you need to change?
Famicom and SFC got exactly one price cut, many years after release. Wii didn't get a price cut until years after release. GC got aggressive price cuts and it didn't help at all.
The 3DS price cut was an emergency one, and I'm sure they don't want to repeat that ever.
Actually, Sony has been using the better SKU at the same price strategy to not have to resort to price cuts that quickly, also to condition their customers to stop waiting for a price cut. They still depend on price cuts because they like to release hardware that is too expensive at the time of release. Nintendo on the other hand likes to set a price they can maintain over a long time.
I think Nintendo will eventually make Switch mini, but it won't have the switch brand. I think it will have separate brand and won't run docked only games, but will be able to play every handheld mode games and Switch will be able to play all of its games too.
I expect something like this:
480p/720p smaller display
single piece (no joy-cons)
Handheld only games
8GB or 16 GB storage
200$
Stupid move predict: One only account
I expect something like this:
480p/720p smaller display
single piece (no joy-cons)
Handheld only games
8GB or 16 GB storage
200$
Stupid move predict: One only account
Well they need something to replace 3DS and rather soon at that. Could see more portable inclined version of Switch for 2018 Holiday for example. Not sure about the exact form factor and compromises made to cut down price and size but I think they want to keep the same library for obvious reasons.
Who would this be for though? Making the system a worse value proposition cuts out the family/kids market and the hardcore market isn't likely to have any issue with the current Switch that would be solved by this.
It seems like a weird idea to intentionally make a niche version of their system like that.
Nostremitus
Member
The poster didn't move any goalposts. Gyro based tilt controls like BotW and Splatoon are not motion controlled games like 12 Switch or Just Dance. Arms isn't a game that would lose compatibility, which is what they were talking about.
So, what was the point of accusing them of moving goalposts? Didn't you have an actual response?
So tilting is not a form of motion now?
Graphics Horse
Member
Pretty clear he was taking about motion control independent to the screen device, everything with a screen they've made for 6 years has gyro and accelerometers.
Nostremitus
Member
Not in context when talking about games that use the type of motion control that would break compatibility, no.
The goalposts were set in their original post.
Tilt controls aren't the same as motion controls, anyway.
Sixaxis tilt wasn't the same as a PlayStation Move motion controls, either. The two concepts, while similar, are different input styles.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Nintendo would never introduce a first-wave iteration of a handheld with glaring design flaws they can address in an update.
Never I say. Never. The very idea.
Never I say. Never. The very idea.
Fine then.
Wii VC.
The majority of the Wii VC would be useless on a portable only Switch with no Joy-Cons.
Nostremitus
Member
When did the Switch get Wii VC?
How would Wii VC work in portable mode on a regular Switch to begin with?
We are talking about a portable only, mini version of the Switch... It only needs to be able to do what the Switch can do in portable mode.
Nvidia Shield TV can run GameCube games and that's using a third party emulator.
Why are we doubting the Switch can't run Wii games when it was just a GameCube Turbo?
You'll have to clarify what you mean by portable mode because I can use the Switch portably to play motion controlled games on Switch.
bemusedchunk
Banned
Completely defeats the concept of a switch. The joycons coming off is very important to Nintendo -along with couch co-op.
This idea is as dumb as the left joycon with a d-pad instead of buttons.
This idea is as dumb as the left joycon with a d-pad instead of buttons.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Nintendo couldn't even sort GameCube VC for the Wii U, let's not get excited here mate
Okay, and the point that started all this crap is one guy saying that the Switch wouldn't have more than 5 Switch games that use motion controls.
Wii VC, on a Switch uses Tabletop mode. Uses motion controls like Wii Sports, you don't need to use an IR pointer since gyros are a substitute like with World of Goo which is on the eShop for the Switch right now.
What, do you need a TV to use motion controls for Wii Sports when ARMS is the same thing?
Although I understand the logic, and like the suggested form factor, it would make the system unable to play motion based games like just dance and 1 2 switch.
The detachable joycons are essential to the system, unlike the 3D on the 3ds, which could be disabled from the getgo and was not a requirement for any software. I doubt Nintendo would release a system with key software unusable without buying extra joycons.
The detachable joycons are essential to the system, unlike the 3D on the 3ds, which could be disabled from the getgo and was not a requirement for any software. I doubt Nintendo would release a system with key software unusable without buying extra joycons.
Nostremitus
Member
Why are you acting like I said any of that?
Where did I mention graphics capabilities?
I asked if it had them or if they had even been announced?
The Wii U didn't have GameCube even though it was an evolved GameCube from a hardware standpoint.
Wii VC would make sense, but then so would GameCube on the Wii U.
The portable only version of the Switch, in the scenario laid out by the person you decided to be indignant and rude to for no reason, already stated that some games just wouldn't be available for the new console. Wii VC, if it ever materialized, would be some of that in this scenario. They could flag titles that didn't support the pro controller or sideways wiimote play styles and lock them out.
For you other question.
Nintendo have actually been very careful to separate portable mode from tabletop mode.
Portable mode = joycons attached to the sides played as a portable.
Tabletop mode = joycons detached playing as if docked mode but on the smaller screen.
Docked mode = playing with it in the dock and getting the benefits that come with doing so.
I honestly don't understand why you are a acting the way you are about this. The person was suggesting the mini be released as a separate, portable only, console in the Switch family that was only compatible with the games that didn't need motion controls to function.