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Star Citizen Alpha 3.23 update: Adventure Beckons (Fauna, Creature Hunting plus more)

iHaunter

Member
In case some peoples don't like searching, a 2021 report for fiscal year 2020, which for reference, had more funding in a single year than the 2012 + 2013 funding campaign


ZfCNC4T.png
SLohjGh.png

AqO2thL.png


VeHo8ql.png


The "highest paid director" being most likely Chris Roberts
It's fucking nothing for a CEO of such a big company

Big Cats GIF by NETFLIX
That's tiny for a CEO for a large company. Considering he also invested millions of his own money as well. Those douchenozzles can make upwards of 10M.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Please don't walk into the troll's trap.. Rather ask: Even if it was so, who the fuck cares. SC's implementation of dynamic server meshing is just one of the important parts unleashing the full potential of SC as a wholistic seamless experience. What the low-iq trolls think about it is irrelevant.
200.gif
 

Kerotan

Member
This is basically a social experiment at this point. People's kids will be playing this when it's finally finished instead of them and then they'll realise why they live in a caravan.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
This is basically a social experiment at this point. People's kids will be playing this when it's finally finished instead of them and then they'll realise why they live in a caravan.
But that 1000 dollar ship will totally be worth it! It will be their kids retirement plan!
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
I have about the same specs with a 4090 and performance has been pretty smooth at all times (with everything cranked to near-max), EXCEPT for the latter part of my session last night where I experienced some weird fps drops, especially around New Babbage. Because I didn't experience this before last night I have this notion that it's because CIG experimenting with their servers somehow (I have no idea what I'm talking about tho..).

Edit: The server crashed..? Interesting, how did it manifest itself? The reason I ask is because in my experience server issues has resolved itself by a few minutes and resumed without me having to do anything (no log-out and in again, no restart, I just waited a little and everything came back to normal by itself).
To be more precise on the crash: it became unresponsive and then after 30 secondes it crashed but without going back to the main menu and the chat was still working. People were saying that it should come back in a few minutes but I had to move away. I'm gonna retry right now.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
You obviously don't care so why even bother to spend precious time of your day just being a dick and ruining the chance for anyone to actually discuss the topic at hand?

I cared enough to back the game initially and when that investment goes to absolutely nothing of value while they continue to act like greedy cunts and produce little to nothing of value, you are going to get annoyed and embittered customers.

You want to defend the game? Good! Hope you continue to enjoy it. I will continue to criticize the shitty company that is RSI and their repeated failures to follow up on anything.
 
I cared enough to back the game initially and when that investment goes to absolutely nothing of value while they continue to act like greedy cunts and produce little to nothing of value, you are going to get annoyed and embittered customers.

You want to defend the game? Good! Hope you continue to enjoy it. I will continue to criticize the shitty company that is RSI and their repeated failures to follow up on anything.
But you're not engaging in the conversation here about whether they have produced any value, you're just name calling and posting a trolly gif in response to anyone who disagrees. I'm curious to hear why you think nothing they have produced has any value. Because it's too buggy? Because it's taken too long? There's plenty of conversation to be had, the floor is yours.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Ok now how about dynamic server meshing

Even static, nobody did it like Star Citizen is trying to do.

They're dimwits that confuse a cluster of servers as being server meshing. Nothing like what was tested in the PTU nor the intention of CIG.

All those MMOs are cluster shards. 99% of them are defined by a zone / loading / instances that will stop any interaction between servers. Even when a shard for a zone is full, they do create a new shard accordingly but you pop and will only see peoples in that same shard even if you are at the same place, almost all games have a different name of that, WOW is phasing, etc. Those systems using clusters of servers are basically queue'd combat too, no matter how close to action they are, they are queue'd commands.

The other 1% is the only one that did anything remotely impressive for FPS combat with no queues in the old days : Planetside 2 (no 20 years ago).
But again, they cut down heavily into making it work, low tick rates, simplified physics, bubbles around players with no persistence of items. The problem with that game too is that they offloaded the heavy computational requirements on client side which made it very easy to hack/cheat.

  • EVE online servers are again shards per systems. Like every MMO, if too many peoples are in the same instances for big fights basically slows time down rather than create a new shard, as then they wouldn't be able to have big fights. Massively reduced ticks, to a crawl where that queue system almost becomes a turned based battle. Also something that EVE online doesn't have is game spaces within game spaces within game spaces... You fly a ship, that's your gamespace, you go to a station and you load into another game space for hangar. Star Citizen is a player gamespace in a ship gamespace in a planet gamespace in a hangar gamespace, etc. You can have peoples fighting inside the ship and that ship is fighting another ship, etc. It's a TAD more fucking complex. A lot of instances placed together in real-time.
  • Dual Universe was in development since 2011, launched in late 2022 and was already dead 2 months later. Had interesting server technology aims, but again, no real-time physical interactions server to server and it's a point and click queue system like Eve online, not aim and shoot mechanic. DU struggled with heavy desync issues in the likes of tens of km teleporting with a whooping 792 player peak :
    • nqTBcHn.jpeg

    • Even nowadays with 50 or so players (well less than that now but at the time of the video), it simply lags so much. For how it looks yea.
    • Your client side (again... pushing the load to customers) will push your ship location, if you have a problem, you desync for everyone and literally you will be frozen in time for the others. Like good old days of networking. Clearly has trouble with entity handling.
    • So is there truely TENS of thousands of players possiblity for the tech behind if there's 21 players peak a day for the whole game? Let me repeat, the whole purpose of this game is to bring everyone on the SAME server. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Nobody is even there to see the tech work. We don't even know if you can shoot cross servers and damage things on the other server, because there was never a demo for it, nor the number of players ever to have multiple servers in the game.
  • Rust - Uses Raknet :messenger_tears_of_joy: Where to even begin. Community hosts the servers. We're going down the Starsiege Tribes memory lane in terms of networking. Depending on their rigs/banwidth, they'll handle 128 ish players correctly. You can push boundaries to 1000 players but that experience is terrible, and again, it offloads the hard computation on client side like all P2P, they become easily hacked and you have EAC evaders fucking things up. Server crashes and wipes everything. They disables a lot of things on their servers to allow these numbers of peoples, like AI and they wipe the content often. Absolutely nothing in this game is server meshing. It's good old MP servers run on dedicated fan machines or official ones.
  • No mans sky - Peer to peer. With servers only for database tracking of what's discovered. Again, brainlet moment to even bring this one
Very fucking different than



And we're so straying far from "20 years ago" argument that its starting to be very very silly. As silly as those posters in this thread whom have no fucking clue about network engineering. Such as,

EVE Online, Dual Universe, Rust, No Mans Sky,
 
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rochet

Member
Even static, nobody did it like Star Citizen is trying to do.

They're dimwits that confuse a cluster of servers as being server meshing. Nothing like what was tested in the PTU nor the intention of CIG.

All those MMOs are cluster shards. 99% of them are defined by a zone / loading / instances that will stop any interaction between servers. Even when a shard for a zone is full, they do create a new shard accordingly but you pop and will only see peoples in that same shard even if you are at the same place, almost all games have a different name of that, WOW is phasing, etc. Those systems using clusters of servers are basically queue'd combat too, no matter how close to action they are, they are queue'd commands.

The other 1% is the only one that did anything remotely impressive for FPS combat with no queues in the old days : Planetside 2 (no 20 years ago).
But again, they cut down heavily into making it work, low tick rates, simplified physics, bubbles around players with no persistence of items. The problem with that game too is that they offloaded the heavy computational requirements on client side which made it very easy to hack/cheat.

  • EVE online servers are again shards per systems. Like every MMO, if too many peoples are in the same instances for big fights basically slows time down rather than create a new shard, as then they wouldn't be able to have big fights. Massively reduced ticks, to a crawl where that queue system almost becomes a turned based battle. Also something that EVE online doesn't have is game spaces within game spaces within game spaces... You fly a ship, that's your gamespace, you go to a station and you load into another game space for hangar. Star Citizen is a player gamespace in a ship gamespace in a planet gamespace in a hangar gamespace, etc. You can have peoples fighting inside the ship and that ship is fighting another ship, etc. It's a TAD more fucking complex. A lot of instances placed together in real-time.
  • Dual Universe was in development since 2011, launched in late 2022 and was already dead 2 months later. Had interesting server technology aims, but again, no real-time physical interactions server to server and it's a point and click queue system like Eve online, not aim and shoot mechanic. DU struggled with heavy desync issues in the likes of tens of km teleporting with a whooping 792 player peak :
    • nqTBcHn.jpeg

    • Even nowadays with 50 or so players (well less than that now but at the time of the video), it simply lags so much. For how it looks yea.
    • Your client side (again... pushing the load to customers) will push your ship location, if you have a problem, you desync for everyone and literally you will be frozen in time for the others. Like good old days of networking. Clearly has trouble with entity handling.
    • So is there truely TENS of thousands of players possiblity for the tech behind if there's 21 players peak a day for the whole game? Let me repeat, the whole purpose of this game is to bring everyone on the SAME server. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Nobody is even there to see the tech work. We don't even know if you can shoot cross servers and damage things on the other server, because there was never a demo for it, nor the number of players ever to have multiple servers in the game.
  • Rust - Uses Raknet :messenger_tears_of_joy: Where to even begin. Community hosts the servers. We're going down the Starsiege Tribes memory lane in terms of networking. Depending on their rigs/banwidth, they'll handle 128 ish players correctly. You can push boundaries to 1000 players but that experience is terrible, and again, it offloads the hard computation on client side like all P2P, they become easily hacked and you have EAC evaders fucking things up. Server crashes and wipes everything. They disables a lot of things on their servers to allow these numbers of peoples, like AI and they wipe the content often. Absolutely nothing in this game is server meshing. It's good old MP servers run on dedicated fan machines or official ones.
  • No mans sky - Peer to peer. With servers only for database tracking of what's discovered. Again, brainlet moment to even bring this one
Very fucking different than



And we're so straying far from "20 years ago" argument that its starting to be very very silly. As silly as those posters in this thread whom have no fucking clue about network engineering. Such as,

Server Meshing will be the future, what RSI is creating is truly impressive.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Roadmap updated today !!


4-0-on-the-release-view-v0-zncy055vwn0d1.jpg


  • Server Meshing V1
  • Mission System Refactor
  • Transis System Refactor
  • Pyro 1
  • Pyro II - Monox
  • Pyro III - Bloom
  • Pyro IV
  • Pyro V + moons
  • Pyro VI - Terminus
  • Pyro Space Stations
  • Outposts - Colonialism
  • Jump Points
  • Solar Burst
  • Life Support
  • Engineering
  • Charge/Drain
  • Multi-Tool Updates
  • Fire Hazard
  • Fire Extinguisher
  • MFD Reword and New Displays
  • Quasi Grazer (cows)
  • Additional Player Customization
  • RSI Zeus MKII ES
Gawdamn son. Considering also further additions in 3.23.x, crazy fucking year

Super hyped for server meshing but also, I can't help myself to have these new sexy MFDs from Squadron 42

mn6gn15t0mvb1.png
 
Not sure why but the UI updates are one of the most exciting features for me before jumping back in after a few years. Tempted to finally try 3.23 with the FPS UI/Starmap but may just hold out for 4.0 if it's next quarter. Looking forward to seeing the different ship brand HUD layouts if they look as good as the Gladius they teased last year
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
Roadmap updated today !!


4-0-on-the-release-view-v0-zncy055vwn0d1.jpg


  • Server Meshing V1
  • Mission System Refactor
  • Transis System Refactor
  • Pyro 1
  • Pyro II - Monox
  • Pyro III - Bloom
  • Pyro IV
  • Pyro V + moons
  • Pyro VI - Terminus
  • Pyro Space Stations
  • Outposts - Colonialism
  • Jump Points
  • Solar Burst
  • Life Support
  • Engineering
  • Charge/Drain
  • Multi-Tool Updates
  • Fire Hazard
  • Fire Extinguisher
  • MFD Reword and New Displays
  • Quasi Grazer (cows)
  • Additional Player Customization
  • RSI Zeus MKII ES
Gawdamn son. Considering also further additions in 3.23.x, crazy fucking year

Super hyped for server meshing but also, I can't help myself to have these new sexy MFDs from Squadron 42

mn6gn15t0mvb1.png

Ya, it's a great update. Here's fleshing it out:



The video discusses the upcoming Star Citizen Alpha 4.0 update, detailing its features and improvements. It highlights the introduction of server meshing, which allows for better load distribution across multiple servers and seamless navigation between the Stanton and Pyro solar systems. The update includes jump points connecting these systems, a mission and transit system refactor, rundown space stations with various services, and colonialism outposts for AI habitation. Additionally, it introduces natural disasters like solar bursts, life support systems for ships, engineering gameplay, and a fire hazard system. The video also covers new planets and moons in the Pyro system, each with unique characteristics and ecosystems, as well as additional player customization options and the RSI Zeus Mark 2 es ship. The presenter expresses excitement for the patch's potential impact on the game and encourages viewers to participate in related promotions.

- [00:00] Introduction to Alpha 4.0
- Planned release by end of Q3 2024
- Features static server meshing for improved performance
- Seamless navigation between two solar systems

- [01:29] Key Features and Gameplay
- Jump points, mission system refactor, and rundown space stations
- Colonialism outposts and solar bursts as natural disasters
- Life support systems and engineering gameplay enhancements

- [04:46] New Fauna and Customization
- Introduction of the Quasi Grazer animal
- More hair, facial hair, face piercings, and the RSI Zeus Mark 2 es

- [05:30] Planets and Moons of Pyro
- Detailed descriptions of Pyro's planets and moons
- Unique climates, atmospheres, and potential for terraforming
- Ecosystems and resources available for players

- [10:59] Release Expectations
 
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nemiroff

Gold Member
Doesn't seem to be free for me - I downloaded the launcher but got this error when I signed in. Maybe because I already tried a free session a few years ago, or is it just a load of free ships to try for people who own a copy?

That's because the event hasn't started yet. It starts in about 2 hours :)

 

Buggy Loop

Member
Doesn't seem to be free for me - I downloaded the launcher but got this error when I signed in. Maybe because I already tried a free session a few years ago, or is it just a load of free ships to try for people who own a copy?

nuWn982.jpeg

It'll open in 2h


edit - ah beaten


3.23.1 also apparently improved performances a lot, there were memory leaks that caused stutter. But still heavy on rigs of course, without CPU multithreading implemented yet, DLSS has little to no impact.

Btw, character creation for the Guardian of the galaxies.... missing raccoon of course

6e0mg00x0z0d1.jpeg
 
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Buggy Loop

Member
LiquidMetal14 LiquidMetal14

I think you wanted a reminder for when it goes on special again, but Invictus event started today for free trial and free ship rentals during the event if you want to give it a go. Server performances are typically rough during these events, no idea how it’s going so far. Otherwise starter pack is $40. Not a huge deal. Can wait for Citizencon otherwise
 

calistan

Member
Actually got into into my ship, which is better than I managed last time I did a free trial. But then I was flying around the checkpoints in the tutorial and the ship got stuck in a weird and uncontrollable roll. I could still fly but it was constantly spinning anticlockwise.

With all the cockpit panels and interactions, this game really needs VR. Is that on the roadmap?
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Hey I spent $35 and my friend rn has paid $0

Big Cats GIF by NETFLIX


Hope they can balance this properly

I imagine in PVP these medivac stations will be high priority targets to destroy.

Actually got into into my ship, which is better than I managed last time I did a free trial. But then I was flying around the checkpoints in the tutorial and the ship got stuck in a weird and uncontrollable roll. I could still fly but it was constantly spinning anticlockwise.

With all the cockpit panels and interactions, this game really needs VR. Is that on the roadmap?

Yes its in the plans but way down on priority list I imagine. The game used to have some VR but they shelved it to focus on improving the core tech before. When Vulkan is well implemented, who knows it might come back. They need that performance boost from that API before even thinking of turning it on again.
Some peoples do it with some a bypass I think but yeesh, a lot of tweaking for something that is probably not the best experience, but I never tried it.

Highly recommend an head tracker, be it from a webcam faceware (in-game supported), trackIR or eyetracker if you can in the meantime.

Did your ship get damaged? Sounds like destroyed thrusters.

Anyway, tips for new players jumping into invictus



And I fully agree that the tutorial sucks. It's a tough game, overwhelming even, a lot of keyboard keys, a lot of switches on ship, etc. But very rewarding, much like study flight sims.
 
Last edited:

calistan

Member
Yes its in the plans but way down on priority list I imagine. The game used to have some VR but they shelved it to focus on improving the core tech before. When Vulkan is well implemented, who knows it might come back. They need that performance boost from that API before even thinking of turning it on again.
Some peoples do it with some a bypass I think but yeesh, a lot of tweaking for something that is probably not the best experience, but I never tried it.

Highly recommend an head tracker, be it from a webcam faceware (in-game supported), trackIR or eyetracker if you can in the meantime.

Did your ship get damaged? Sounds like destroyed thrusters.

Anyway, tips for new players jumping into invictus



And I fully agree that the tutorial sucks. It's a tough game, overwhelming even, a lot of keyboard keys, a lot of switches on ship, etc. But very rewarding, much like study flight sims.

The tutorial was a bit buggy and unfriendly throughout - before I could even get out of my room, I had to look up how to access the journal because the tooltip didn't pop up. Quitting and restarting fixed that, but it's clearly not ready for primetime yet.

I don't know how the ship could have got damaged, because I was just flying between checkpoints far above the ground. Maybe someone shot me. Still, getting out of the city, then seeing the area I'd just left from the cockpit, then flying up and seeing the whole city below- pretty goddamn cool.

I have no problem with complicated flight models - bring 'em on! I put a lot of time into Elite Dangerous, and I've spent far more than the cost of Star Citizen on individual aircraft for P3D and Flight Simulator. Just need to find the time to properly map my flight sim controls to this game. And it does seem like it's still a long way from being in a state where I can justify spending that time.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
My Corsair suddenly
The tutorial was a bit buggy and unfriendly throughout - before I could even get out of my room, I had to look up how to access the journal because the tooltip didn't pop up. Quitting and restarting fixed that, but it's clearly not ready for primetime yet.

I don't know how the ship could have got damaged, because I was just flying between checkpoints far above the ground. Maybe someone shot me. Still, getting out of the city, then seeing the area I'd just left from the cockpit, then flying up and seeing the whole city below- pretty goddamn cool.

I have no problem with complicated flight models - bring 'em on! I put a lot of time into Elite Dangerous, and I've spent far more than the cost of Star Citizen on individual aircraft for P3D and Flight Simulator. Just need to find the time to properly map my flight sim controls to this game. And it does seem like it's still a long way from being in a state where I can justify spending that time.

I have plenty of yokes and sticks lying around for MSFS and DCS, but when it comes to SC I just fly it with kb/m. Idk, I'm not doing a lot of combat, so I might change my tune at some point. But right now it feels good.

Anyway, I spotted several Ursa medevacs outside New Babbage yesterday.. I got one too, but when I was loading it into the Corsair it suddenly blew up with the ship.. Felt so abrupt and unnecessary, lol


tobias funke ad GIF
 

calistan

Member
I really like the control mapping screen - that's a great touch. Reminds me of the cardboard keyboard overlay that came with Elite for the ZX Spectrum.

If they could add similar graphics for various different hotas setups, that would be awesome. When I was learning Elite Dangerous, I had to keep a printed diagram of my controllers and a bunch of labels that I'd stick on it and move around as I customised the layout.

Sv5MFIM.jpeg
 

Buggy Loop

Member
What is the performance like now?

The 3.23.1 patch performed better for me last night in vulkan mode, felt smoother, less stutter and higher lows. But the game is still CPU bound, until they enable multithreading in vulkan it’s not gonna improve much.

And server side is a bit hammered with the event.

Costs nothing to try now, or push your visit to Citizencon in October where most likely 4.0 will drop with better vulkan and server meshing.
 

calistan

Member
What is the performance like now?
I've got a 3080 Ti and 5900x with 32GB RAM, it's a bit jerky in the opening city level but then very smooth in the flight stuff and on any offworld areas I've managed to visit.

I've gone from interested spectator of the game's interminable development to buying the basic package, since it seems to be a good deal at the moment. The thing that sold it to me was launching off that opening world in daylight, flying through the clouds with water dripping off the canopy, and seeing the whole thing from miles up. Holy fucking shit, I think is the correct terminology there.

Really needs VR, though. Also ships with glass cockpits so you can see things below you - what are the best ones for visibility?
 

Buggy Loop

Member
I've got a 3080 Ti and 5900x with 32GB RAM, it's a bit jerky in the opening city level but then very smooth in the flight stuff and on any offworld areas I've managed to visit.

I've gone from interested spectator of the game's interminable development to buying the basic package, since it seems to be a good deal at the moment. The thing that sold it to me was launching off that opening world in daylight, flying through the clouds with water dripping off the canopy, and seeing the whole thing from miles up. Holy fucking shit, I think is the correct terminology there.

Really needs VR, though. Also ships with glass cockpits so you can see things below you - what are the best ones for visibility?

The ones I stumbled on were Mirai series, Hawk, Scorpius, the alien ships like Khartu-AL, San'tok.yai. RSI typically have superb visibility with their canopies if its triangle shape and protruding at the front, from fighters to their corvettes

As seen here



Pilot set has quite the view.

Good time to visit Area 18's invictus event and rent them all to try out :) They'll switch to other ship manufacturers throughout the event. I tried the scorpius yesterday as a matter of fact. Fun ship to fly.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
It's been fun following summit1g's journey getting to know SC. He started with 3.22 a few weeks ago and is now on 3.23. You can't get a much better endorsement than this legend lovin it. Summit is loosely describing SC as "Sea of Thieves in space" (if you know who this guy is, then you know what that means..).

Viewer discretion advised: The following content may contain glitches and server lag :messenger_grinning_smiling:

 
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Buggy Loop

Member
It's been fun following summit1g's journey getting to know SC. He started with 3.22 a few weeks ago and is now on 3.23. You can't get a much better endorsement than this legend lovin it. Summit is loosely describing SC as "Sea of Thieves in space" (if you know who this guy is, then you know what that means..).

Viewer discretion advised: The following content may contain glitches and server lag :messenger_grinning_smiling:




I didn’t know this guy until yesterday when his content was suggested to me




Jackfrags also has a new vid

 
Whats is crazy is how many ppl quickly say scam have have no interest in hearing ppl who have tried the game. Don't listen to me look at youtube and other ppl who have tried it. It does seam like they are pulling it off. But the servers do crash which is my only beef right now, but damn they have improved questing, fpsing, and is not so stuttering and quality of life improvements.

Or.. bash it and enjoy your starfield "loading screen" game. Now that was a scam...

And UK law is very clear, and its all available, to provide the annual financial reports and accounts.


He pays himself between 200k to 600k depending on the year.

But
"He's pocketing it!"

Always Sunny Reaction GIF


Oh yeah, they avoid the law of multiple countries for 11 or so years. /sureJan

The biggest internet Sherlock Holmes in history are on the case :messenger_tears_of_joy:



Really? Twice the same stupid reply?

Low effort thread derailing.
It's impressive how much Star Citizen fans put into defining the game from nay-sayers. Bro, the haters have already made up thier minds and your endless desperate attempts to defend this game won't change that. Just relax and enjoy the game you want to play.

Star Citizen is not a scam in the literal sense of the definition but thier business practices and funding strategies leave a questionable impression on the general audience. You have to understand the way this game is developed and presents itself is going to turn off a lot of people.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
It's impressive how much Star Citizen fans put into defining the game from nay-sayers. Bro, the haters have already made up thier minds and your endless desperate attempts to defend this game won't change that. Just relax and enjoy the game you want to play.

Star Citizen is not a scam in the literal sense of the definition but thier business practices and funding strategies leave a questionable impression on the general audience. You have to understand the way this game is developed and presents itself is going to turn off a lot of people.

I have a problem with peoples spouting shit in general though, not related to Star Citizen per say. Been here for a long ass time and I've seen my share of trolls. Ain't changing my habits anytime soon.
 

gt86

Member
I don't get the hate, been playing for 5 years, you don't have to spend more money to play. There's plenty to do in game now but people act like there's nothing there. People spend much more money on mobile. I have enjoyed my time with and also taken time off from the game.
 
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Buggy Loop

Member


I really don't understand how these guys manage to fly like they do. I was pretty good in Elite dangerous but in SC I die rapidly if I even get that close to ground at those speeds. Although I'm being lazy and on keyboard and mouse rather than getting the HOTAS out, maybe it would help.
 
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