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[Etnos]

It's worse than most F2P games. At least in those the monetization is for immediate things, here you are pre-ordering IAPs years in advance. It's the highest level of whale hunting, they're exploiting their userbase before there is even a game.

I saw their GDC talk "Development without borders", Community driven development, Cut the middle man, community relations, community interaction... community this, the community that, we care for the community..

Dude when you are selling 3d meshes at $2,500 for a unfinished game, just because you can... "We care about our community", my fucking ass you care about $$$ more like greatest sales man ever.

Actions-Tangibles: price tags, actual products show me how much you care for your community, everything else is demagogic nonsense.

 

[GameAddict411]

I have never contributed to these kind of fundraisers for a reason. The developers who are getting this kind of money have zero obligation to do what they promised. 77 million dollars is an absurd amount of money. The Witcher 3 was developed for far less with a huge advertising campaign. This thing has none. I really hope this will make everyone think twice before dropping cash on a similar fundraisers.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

I have never contributed to these kind of fundraisers for a reason. The developers who are getting this kind of money have zero obligation to do what they promised. 77 million dollars is an absurd amount of money. The Witcher 3 was developed for far less with a huge advertising campaign. This thing has none. I really hope this will make everyone think twice before dropping cash on a similar fundraisers.

So you hope it becomes a cautionary tale rather than see it succeed?

 

[KKRT00]

I saw their GDC talk "Development without borders", Community driven development, Cut the middle man, community relations, community interaction... community this, the community that, we care for the community..

Dude when you are selling 3d meshes at $2,500 for a unfinished game, just because you can... "We care about our community", my fucking ass you care about $$$ more like greatest sales man ever.

Actions-Tangibles: price tags, actual products show me how much you care for your community, everything else is demagogic nonsense.

But everything they do is community driven. They have like 5 video shows per week, where one is actually about their content from the community.
There is no other game in development that is as much community driven as this.
They literally put so much content that most of people following the game is not even able to watch 10% of it.

---

I have never contributed to these kind of fundraisers for a reason. The developers who are getting this kind of money have zero obligation to do what they promised. 77 million dollars is an absurd amount of money. The Witcher 3 was developed for far less with a huge advertising campaign. This thing has none. I really hope this will make everyone think twice before dropping cash on a similar fundraisers.

The Witcher is way smaller game.
And Star Citizen would never ever be created if it wasnt funded by players.

 

[TronLight]

I saw their GDC talk "Development without borders", Community driven development, Cut the middle man, community relations, community interaction... community this, the community that, we care for the community..

Dude when you are selling 3d meshes at $2,500 for a unfinished game, just because you can... "We care about our community", my fucking ass you care about $$$ more like greatest sales man ever.

Actions-Tangibles: price tags, actual products show me how much you care for your community, everything else is demagogic nonsense.

Nobody is forcing you to buy a 2500$ ship. Those money go towards development, they're not pocketing them.

 

[Arulan]

I have never contributed to these kind of fundraisers for a reason. The developers who are getting this kind of money have zero obligation to do what they promised. 77 million dollars is an absurd amount of money. The Witcher 3 was developed for far less with a huge advertising campaign. This thing has none. I really hope this will make everyone think twice before dropping cash on a similar fundraisers.

People should understand the risks involved, but that doesn't make the system any less viable. More so, Star Citizen is hardly the example to point at negatively. It's one of the most ambitious games ever, and they've been extremely open about development.

The fact is that Kickstarter and crowd-funding in general has led to arguably some of the best games in recent years: Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, FTL, Divinity: Original Sin, Xenonauts, Elite: Dangerous, etc. It's your own personal choice to not donate, but it's been very rewarding to a lot of people and developers. The game industry would be in a much more depressing place if it wasn't for crowd-funding.

 

[Etnos]

Nobody is forcing you to buy a 2500$ ship. Those money go towards development, they're not pocketing them.

Have they release financial state? Monthly Budget? Are those investing-buying + $1000 getting some return after the game finally launch?

I mean common sense say they should (at least if they up to be congruent), they talked many times how they see the community as investors. There are basic contractual responsibilities when you work with investors.

I have never contributed to these kind of fundraisers for a reason. The developers who are getting this kind of money have zero obligation to do what they promised. 77 million dollars is an absurd amount of money. The Witcher 3 was developed for far less with a huge advertising campaign. This thing has none. I really hope this will make everyone think twice before dropping cash on a similar fundraisers.

Makes you think about actual ethics for game development. Witcher 3 is an amazing game that exist, they are giving DLC for free. Star Citizen keeps milking DLC at ridiculous prices out of fans for a game isn't even close to competition, somehow that is alright, because community I guess.

 

[KKRT00]

Have they release financial state? Monthly Budget? Are those investing-buying + $1000 getting some return after the game finally launch?

I mean common sense say they should (at least if they up to be congruent), they talked many times how they see the community as investors. There are basic contractual responsibilities when you work with investors.

What do You really except? They show they work weekly. They hired more than 350 people.
They are working with cutting edge technology for performance capture, which some time ago they disclosed the cost.
I'm pretty sure that Chris also said the cost of the new Austin office in one of the videos.

 

[Etnos]

What do You really except? They show they work weekly. They hired more than 350 people.
They are working with cutting edge technology for performance capture, which some time ago they disclosed the cost.
I'm pretty sure that Chris also said the cost of the new Austin office in one of the videos.

If they are serious about the community being investors, give the community a investor treatment.. Meaning daily budget, payroll, realistic schedule, sales expectations, marketing plan-budget. Whatever someone who works with actual investors is not only expected to give, but obligated by law.

Or you can keep doing pandering cute videos about how much you love the community while you nail them with $2500 Maya meshes to exploit their good will.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Holy shit this game is a touchy subject

 

[Lorcain]

I can understand why it's so polarizing. It's one of the first crowdfunded games to do IAPs without the In App part actually available. Customers are buying things that can't be used fully in game yet. It's a brilliant pre-release revenue generator. They've made a ton of money.

I love sci-fi flight sims and arcade flyers. Some of my all time favorite games were the Wing Commander series, Freelancer, and Privateer. I get the passion behind this project. I hope the release version is good. That said, I have a bad feeling about this.

 

[Rafterman]

I keep seeing people defend these ridiculous ship prices by claiming you don't have to pay or that they will be available in-game. Anyone saying this is crazy if they think a ship that someone paid thousands of dollars for will be easily available to those who don't. It's P2W at it's worst. These ships won't be easy to get and while Joe Public is busting his in-game ass to get the funds to get one of these ships, Whale #13453 will just be pulling that much further ahead because of an out of game purchase. These aren't $15 mounts, and they will have a huge impact on who are the haves and have-nots in the multiplayer portion of the game.

 

[staticneuron]

Holy shit this game is a touchy subject

It is simply because people who are uninformed take half backed assumptions and run with them despite there being a wealth of information out there for them to read and research. It is easier to criticize than to have an informed opinion apparently.

Have they release financial state? Monthly Budget? Are those investing-buying + $1000 getting some return after the game finally launch?

I mean common sense say they should (at least if they up to be congruent), they talked many times how they see the community as investors. There are basic contractual responsibilities when you work with investors.



Makes you think about actual ethics for game development. Witcher 3 is an amazing game that exist, they are giving DLC for free. Star Citizen keeps milking DLC at ridiculous prices out of fans for a game isn't even close to competition, somehow that is alright, because community I guess.

1. When people purchase or ship or a package it is described exactly what they are getting in return. It is not as if it is a publicly traded company. No one is purchasing stocks. When they refer to people invested in the game that simply means the money spent is being put towards the game and before you pledge a dime it is listed what the packages contain.

2. Yes there is a way to see money pledged on project, and that is simply by visiting webpage.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

You can view it in hourly, daily, weekly or monthly views. It includes the total amount pledged and the number of individuals that pledged to the amount.

3. SC is not pledging DLC. All of the ships pledged will be in the game and anyone can get it. There is no added content. You can say it is a shortcut per say, but getting a larger ships means added cost and responsibility. Also you need more people for larger ships. So equating a single player game which has DLC (normally implies content not included with game) to a title that is basically a sandbox with early access shortcuts isn't the same at all given the mechanics of each game are totally different.

I keep seeing people defend these ridiculous ship prices by claiming you don't have to pay or that they will be available in-game. Anyone saying this is crazy if they think a ship that someone paid thousands of dollars for will be easily available to those who don't. It's P2W at it's worst. These ships won't be easy to get and while Joe Public is busting his in-game ass to get the funds to get one of these ships, Whale #13453 will just be pulling that much further ahead because of an out of game purchase. These aren't $15 mounts, and they will have a huge impact on who are the haves and have-nots in the multiplayer portion of the game.

This is a perfect example of people who criticize the game that has no idea what they are talking about.

The ships represent different jobs. Even in similar jobs the more expensive the ship the larger it is the more people needed to run the ship. it is not pay to win because if you are a solo player per say, you shouldn't be purchasing a a $2500 ship. Which would be the Javelin Destroyer BTW.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14335-Introducing-The-Javelin-Destroyer

Minimum crew? 23 people.
Weapons? Non included in the package.

So no it is not pay to win when you purchase something that requires multiple people to operate, need to restock and re- arm the ship and since it is also a carrier, you might want to have ships on board as well. Since the game is open, that means there is only one thing you can do with a destroyer and there isn't a description about how war based ships will function in SC PU yet, because every other job type can support or fit into an the economy while something that is purely aimed at blowing stuff up and will most likely be a nightmare to maintain and upkeep, has no currently explained job type to justify its use.

The game is a system of balances and checks so while some ships may make certain things easier, that will be offset by the cost to maintain the ship and the crew count.

So the larger more expensive ships aren't P2W, they are different play approaches. Think of it a the difference between solo play and playing with a team.

EDIT: in Addition there is no "Getting ahead" in the game. There is no linear progression in the PU portion of the game, so trying to throw that idea around just shows how such a strongly worded complaint is based off nothing related to the game at hand.

 

[epmode]

I don't think any ships actually require multiple human players to use. Multiple people will be required for maximum efficiency or whatever but they'll be flyable with one person.

Anyway, this conversation is wayyyy premature, what with the muticrew mechanics still up in the air and the persistent universe nowhere close to finished.

I also think the ridiculous ship prices will have a side effect of setting expectations for the in-game economy. People who spent all that money will feel cheated if their ship is relatively easy to afford when the game launches.

(I've actually put a decent amount of money into the game but I'm really hoping for a lenient economy)

 

[xtradi]

I keep seeing people defend these ridiculous ship prices by claiming you don't have to pay or that they will be available in-game. Anyone saying this is crazy if they think a ship that someone paid thousands of dollars for will be easily available to those who don't. It's P2W at it's worst. These ships won't be easy to get and while Joe Public is busting his in-game ass to get the funds to get one of these ships, Whale #13453 will just be pulling that much further ahead because of an out of game purchase. These aren't $15 mounts, and they will have a huge impact on who are the haves and have-nots in the multiplayer portion of the game.

That's worse almost like real life where poor people must work much more than already rich people /s. Next unlikely hot topic for critics about game is not just gender equality but financial equality. Every one who make game with AAA budget is hoping to get a lot of money not praise.

For people arguing about financial report, making financial report cost money and if you never work in corporation then i tell you most of those report is filtered down for only the good minus the bad. Basically financial report made by corporation themself is bullshit and even financial made by independent auditors can also be bribed to look good.

Collaborating with community cost time and money because developer need to consult with a lot more people rather than just the game developer.

 

[Rex Griswold]

I keep seeing people defend these ridiculous ship prices by claiming you don't have to pay or that they will be available in-game. Anyone saying this is crazy if they think a ship that someone paid thousands of dollars for will be easily available to those who don't. It's P2W at it's worst. These ships won't be easy to get and while Joe Public is busting his in-game ass to get the funds to get one of these ships, Whale #13453 will just be pulling that much further ahead because of an out of game purchase. These aren't $15 mounts, and they will have a huge impact on who are the haves and have-nots in the multiplayer portion of the game.

This mindset was addressed a while back. The Constellation is a $150-$300 ship, and can be acquired in 2-3 weeks of casual play. Meaning you won't have to grind your ass off for it, you won't have to play 20 out of 24 hours a day for it, you can get it in a reasonable amount of time.

Everything points to the purchasable ships being a way of saying "thanks for helping us with the financial end of development!" rather than a pay to win scheme. But, I'm confident that this post will go ignored, and this thread will be ignored, and then suddenly necro'd a couple of months later by someone else who doesn't want to accept that all these things really will be available in game.

 

[staticneuron]

I don't think any ships actually require multiple human players to use. Multiple people will be required for maximum efficiency or whatever but they'll be flyable with one person.

Anyway, this conversation is wayyyy premature, what with the muticrew mechanics still up in the air and the persistent universe nowhere close to finished.

Except for the warning on specific ships that state minimum amount of people required?

Even if on person could fly a Capital ship, do you really think that one person can defend the capital ship from a serious attack? Adjust power and shields all on their own?

The skepticism is nice but with ships that actually have stations dedicated to power distribution, defense, manned turrets, and logistics it is totally illogical to believe that the large ships can be flown solo to any reasonable display of effectiveness by a solo player.

I mean some people might be into flying giant expensive targets but if people purchase larger expensive ships with this mindset and did not do any research then I think they will be in for a very rude awakening when the PU hits.

This mindset was addressed a while back. The Constellation is a $150-$300 ship, and can be acquired in 2-3 weeks of casual play. Meaning you won't have to grind your ass off for it, you won't have to play 20 out of 24 hours a day for it, you can get it in a reasonable amount of time.

Everything points to the purchasable ships being a way of saying "thanks for helping us with the financial end of development!" rather than a pay to win scheme. But, I'm confident that this post will go ignored, and this thread will be ignored, and then suddenly necro'd a couple of months later by someone else who doesn't want to accept that all these things really will be available in game.

There is a point in time when I read some of these posts, asked myself "Did these people do any research?". It seems as if the answer is no and they want to vent about a game they know nothing about simply because it is popular and being talked about. Of course earlier info in this thread will be ignored because they aren't looking to be informed. I think you are right in terms of this will be ignored and I don't think it matters in the long run anyways.

 

[epmode]

While they obviously don't include financial information. those monthly reports are by far the most informative summaries I've seen on an in-development AAA game. It's not even a contest.

Except for the warning on specific ships that state minimum amount of people required?

I've seen one of those 10 for the Chairman vidoes where they addressed the question directly. Anyone can fly any ship alone. Efficiency is the big difference with extra crew members.

You may be right that the ship is mostly ineffective with one crew member. I prefer to wait and see how it actually works in practice. CIG says a LOT of stuff after all.

I really want this game to be great, BTW. I'd just like to see some implementation now.

 

[MikeE21286]

This will either be the best thing ever or the biggest crowdfunding travesty ever

 

[Rex Griswold]

This will either be the best thing ever or the biggest crowdfunding travesty ever

If Chris Roberts delivers on even half of what he's promising it'll be a landmark achievement, and potentially one of the greatest games out there.

No pressure CIG.

 

[kutthoat5150]

I think it's safe to assume that at least the single player will be fantastic which is what I'm looking forward to the most

 

[staticneuron]

I've seen one of those 10 for the Chairman vidoes where they addressed the question directly. Anyone can fly any ship alone. Efficiency is the big difference with extra crew members.

You may be right that the ship is mostly ineffective with one crew member. I prefer to wait and see how it actually works in practice. CIG says a LOT of stuff after all.

I really want this game to be great, BTW. I'd just like to see some implementation now.

As addressed in letter from the chairman last December, the idea was to alow station management for multi-crew ships from the pilots seat. Notice how the ships mentioned though do not have a MINIMUM crew rating but infact have a MAX crew rating. The Javalin link I posted actually has a minimum crew rating. The difference is that while you may be able to delegate a job on some of the multi crew ships to one panel that is not going to work with the ships that have parts that require a manned presence (they talk about NPC's but that is a huge question mark there) ships like the Freelancer, cutlass, and constellation may have that flexibility but when it comes to the even larger ships with dedicated jobs such as the Orion, the reclaimer, the merchantman and the capital ships, there is no logical way all the task that need to be done to run the ship can be done on one solo player interface and if they somehow make that work, the existence of the larger ships in comparison to the smaller ones would be in question.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...ter-From-The-Chairman-Multi-Crew-Ship-Systems

 

[Dr.Acula]

This will either be the best thing ever or the biggest crowdfunding travesty ever

Watch is be a 7/10 mostly hardcore EVE type game where everyone agrees it's awesome but kinda niche and inaccessible.

 

[Insane Metal]

I saw some footage and it looks absolutely incredible, but this is PC only right?

 

[Red Comet]

Yeah, I really can't believe the people dropping massive amounts of money on this game. I've only purchased the basic pack, which I believe was $45, but I'd have to see a lot more actually come to fruition before investing another dime.

 

[Danthrax]

I saw some footage and it looks absolutely incredible, but this is PC only right?

correct

 

[Insane Metal]

correct

Fuck. I'll prostitute myself for this.

 

[Zabojnik]

Wow, you guys are still at this.

 

[KKRT00]

If they are serious about the community being investors, give the community a investor treatment.. Meaning daily budget, payroll, realistic schedule, sales expectations, marketing plan-budget. Whatever someone who works with actual investors is not only expected to give, but obligated by law.

Or you can keep doing pandering cute videos about how much you love the community while you nail them with $2500 Maya meshes to exploit their good will.

I'm not sure if You are serious anymore. This has to be a joke post.

---

I keep seeing people defend these ridiculous ship prices by claiming you don't have to pay or that they will be available in-game. Anyone saying this is crazy if they think a ship that someone paid thousands of dollars for will be easily available to those who don't. It's P2W at it's worst. These ships won't be easy to get and while Joe Public is busting his in-game ass to get the funds to get one of these ships, Whale #13453 will just be pulling that much further ahead because of an out of game purchase. These aren't $15 mounts, and they will have a huge impact on who are the haves and have-nots in the multiplayer portion of the game.

Its not 'farm raid boss for 200h to get the loot You want' kind of game. If You have ever played EVE, You would understand that someone having expensive ship is not an issue and that getting expensive ships can take weeks, hours or minutes in some cases.