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Star Citizen is likely in financial trouble

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Krisprolls

Banned
Oh look, it was a vaporware after all, like every people with common sense stated from the start.

All those people who put money in this scam got what they deserved. Next time maybe they'll turn their agression to the scammers instead of shooting the messengers.
 

Calabi

Member
A company taking a loan is in no way a sign of it being in financial trouble. Jesus, GAF.

Its a sign they cant take anymore loans though. If they have put all their assets up in collateral for it. The only way their getting anymore money is from people buying ships and investors, and they really should be warned from doing so at this stage.

Its likely the last stretch either way, they are going to have to go bankrupt or release something when this money runs out, and what state the game is in, will be interesting to see.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Why do they need more cash if they have 2400% more funding than they initially said they needed to complete the project?

I'm missing the backer "this is actually good for Star Citizen" defence here.
I'm just saying that they straight up explained their financial situation a mere five months ago. I very much doubt their company went in the red especially as they've been keeping up with updates and literally posted a video showing new stuff only three days ago.
 

moggio

Banned
I'm just saying that they straight up explained their financial situation a mere five months ago. I very much doubt their company went in the red especially as they've been keeping up with updates and literally posted a video showing new stuff only three days ago.

Yes, they're showing a brave face so gullible whales keep buying thousand dollar ships.

r2CKTSQ.gif


Exactly my point.

Ah!
 

Machina

Banned
For those who legit think they blew 150 million on nothing, I want to see the receipts. How is that possible without cashing out to themselves which is straight up fraud?
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oh look, it was a vaporware after all, like every people with common sense stated from the start.

All those people who put money in this scam got what they deserved. Next time maybe they'll turn their agression to the scammers instead of shooting the messengers.

image.php
 

valkyre

Member
SHOCKING news!!!

You mean it turned out to be a scam? No... it cant be can it?

People all around were absolutely certain all this amazing progress and millions of dollars were worth it. I mean their blog was transparent as hell, so what could go wrong... right?

I am sorry but you could see this from a billion miles away. Its just common effing sense... Whether it was the bloated size of the game, the bloated promises, and the insane amount of cash people paid for digital models of ships...

All that because some dude that presumably is equal to videogame God out there just because he created Wing Commander. Sure its a great game but come the fuck on already...

I still think the game will be released eventually but it wont even meet 50% of the false promises and the millions people gave to this dude.

Even weirder is that, by not meeting the initial promises, the game might even turn out a better product now... I am curious if any people realise that if the game delivered on its promise 100% it would be a game so vast and huge that it would become its greatest issue.

But whatever... its Chris Roberts, apparently the DaVinci of videogames...
 
I'm just saying that they straight up explained their financial situation a mere five months ago.

That was the one that admitted they didn't have enough money to make the MMO, even though they'd raised far, far more than they initially said they needed?

I'm not sure how that helps your argument that this isn't bad or they're not in a financially precarious situation.
 
For those who legit think they blew 150 million on nothing, I want to see the receipts. How is that possible without cashing out to themselves which is straight up fraud?

Pay the salaries of hundreds of employees for years and keep scrapping the work they do.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes, they're showing a brave face so gullible whales keep buying thousand dollar ships.
Man you sure watched that 40 minute video in record time....


For those who legit think they blew 150 million on nothing, I want to see the receipts. How is that possible without cashing out to themselves which is straight up fraud?
While also at the same time paying devs to produce tons worth of new footage and assets.
 

McNum

Member
how the fuck is this game in financial trouble with that much earnings
Overfunding is the greatest enemy of an enthusiast project. It is hard to not go "Now I can do everything I dreamed of!" when you look at 24 times the money you budgeted for. But in reality, you cannot. A ton of money is not infinite money. You still need to budget carefully, even if you have more zeroes to write.

I don't have the insight to call if that happened in this case. But it has happened before and will likely happen again.
 

MattAces

Member
what a shitshow that game will be when it launches.

The problem with the game, at least for me in the current build/past several version is, the game is extremely janky and not fun in both space combat and FPS. The skybox, environment of the space station is fantastic though.
 
For those who legit think they blew 150 million on nothing, I want to see the receipts.

The project has been going for approaching five years. They have multiple studios in multiple countries that they had to set up and staff up. They've had hundreds of devs for years, even before the staffed up internally they made use of over a dozen outsourcing studios:
  • Void Alpha
  • Behaviour Interactive
  • 3lateral
  • Cubic Motion
  • Moon Collider
  • Illfonic
  • Streamline Studios
  • Confetti Special FX
  • CGBot
  • Liquid Development
  • Massive Black
  • Atomahawk Design
They had expensive Hollywood actors for long shoots at the most expensive performance capture studio in the industry (Imaginarium). They developed and threw out whole projects (Illfonic Star Marine)

Game development isn't cheap.
 
On the one hand, you'd think that a project originally projected to cost 6 mil would have enough resources after having received 25 times that amount.

On the other hand, they could have taking out the loan to make the project even better, or to allow some buffer in case they go over the 150 mil.

We'll see I guess.
 

spekkeh

Banned
Could this have to do with the refunds? I have a hard time believing they actually blew $150M already, though it's certainly not impossible. But what if they budgeted $150M and then $50M worth of that wanted a refund?
 

Seiniyta

Member
I always wondered how expensive having these numerous studios across the globe would be and with how long the developement cycle of this game seems to be.

What they are trying is super ambitious but their management isn't that great unfortunately.

If anything, I think other games with more feasible propositions will be released and will steal the game's thunder before Star Citizen is released. Games that don't even exist right now today (or not announced).
 
For those who legit think they blew 150 million on nothing, I want to see the receipts. How is that possible without cashing out to themselves which is straight up fraud?

Why it's not possible?

Apparently there are 400 employee in the company.

If you assume an average of 60k salary that is 24m/year just from salaries.

Add the other expenses and it can easily reach 150m in a couple of years.
 

MattAces

Member
Could this have to do with the refunds? I have a hard time believing they actually blew $150M already, though it's certainly not impossible. But what if they budgeted $150M and then $50M worth of that wanted a refund?

Didn't they stop giving refunds months ago?
Don't forget about those CitizenCons, events and hiring actors. Those aren't cheap.
 

Pandy

Member
Its a sign they cant take anymore loans though. If they have put all their assets up in collateral for it. The only way their getting anymore money is from people buying ships and investors, and they really should be warned from doing so at this stage.

Its likely the last stretch either way, they are going to have to go bankrupt or release something when this money runs out, and what state the game is in, will be interesting to see.
This is pretty much my read.
They have to have budgeted this loan to get them to release point, from when they can expect a significant income (?) to arrive from the sale of the game to non-backers.

Without knowing the size of the loan and the exact budget required to launch 'something', hard to say whether that is realistic or not.
 

TrutaS

Member
Wonder if this is big enough that legislation will be written to control crowd-funding. This seems like the biggest scam in the history of gaming.
 
I always wondered how expensive having these numerous studios across the globe would be and with how long the developement cycle of this game seems to be.

What they are trying is super ambitious but their management isn't that great unfortunately.

If anything, I think other games with more feasible propositions will be released and will steal the game's thunder before Star Citizen is released. Games that don't even exist right now today (or not announced).

Well, Elite Dangerous is already out and doing fine. ;)
 

Instro

Member
Well, not much to say other than I'm glad I did not back this thing. Hope everything turns out ok for those that did.
 

daxy

Member
I feel like the people having a hard time believing it's possible to blow that kind of budget and destroy your company have forgotten the case of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
 
I very much doubt their company went in the red especially as they've been keeping up with updates and literally posted a video showing new stuff only three days ago.

This is a non-sequitur, them putting out videos means nothing for the financial health of the company?

This is pretty much my read.
They have to have budgeted this loan to get them to release point, from when they can expect a significant income (?) to arrive from the sale of the game to non-backers.

Without knowing the size of the loan and the exact budget required to launch 'something', hard to say whether that is realistic or not.

This guy gets it.

The problem is they're bad at estimating release dates. Squadron42 was originally coming in 2014, then 2015, then 2016, then 2017 and now likely 2018. If they're off again and need to delay they can lose everything.
 

vazel

Banned
I'm pretty sure this loan business is being overblown, but I'm still angry at the devs for taking so long. I didn't ask for an FPS component or an expensive campaign with Hollywood actors and fancy facial animations; I just want a new Chris Roberts space sim dammit.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Its about time they hide the money they put away on the side and disappear to assume new identities somewhere in South America.
 

Machina

Banned
I feel like the people having a hard time believing it's possible to blow that kind of budget and destroy your company have forgotten the case of Kindoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

But that was actually a bad game. No I'm not at all surprised an offline MMO failed
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That was the one that admitted they didn't have enough money to make the MMO, even though they'd raised far, far more than they initially said they needed?

I'm not sure how that helps your argument that this isn't bad or they're not in a financially precarious situation.[/QUOTE]
Star Citizen lives to a large extent by a certain hype, of great expectations, dreams and ideas. Each trailer, any design post, every new concept sales fueled these ideas, thus ensuring ringing cash at CIG. But suffice it to finance an ambitious such megaproject? The secret concern of fans: If CIG out of money, it's vinegar with Star Citizen.
But Roberts reassured: "First of all, we always have a decent amount of money in reserve, so if all support would collapse, we would not suddenly incapacitated. We plan the scope of the development based on what arrives monthly by the people to support. I'm not worried, because even if no money came in, we would have sufficient funds to complete Squadron 42nd The revenue from this could in turn be used for the completion of Star Citizen. "Although the company is not to say in the position they would need any more money, but the next milestones are obviously secured.
In addition, Roberts plans long term. »Star Citizen is for me not a game that you pack in a box and say: Hey, here's the game. It is a live product. There may be the point at which we say, that is seen now commercially the final game, but we plan to continue to add features and new content. "

What're you talking about?
Mate, I'm not watching a 40 minute bit of propaganda.
Did you just call a video of game development progress propaganda?

This is a non-sequitur, them putting out videos means nothing for the financial health of the company?
Why would you go through the trouble of removing the link from that quote?
 
For what is worth Snap (SnapChat company) has just 330 employee and their expenses are in the billions per year.

150m isn't really that much in the business world.
 

BigAl1992

Member
This isn't a surprise to me, after watching this saga go on for five years, and personally, I don't see this ending well. I'd say this is close to the end of the whole saga, but what the end result will be is one I'm greatly interested to see how it pans out.
 
Why it's not possible?

Apparently there are 400 employee in the company.

If you assume an average of 60k salary that is 24m/year just from salaries.

Add the other expenses and it can easily reach 150m in a couple of years.

Generally you can add at least 50% to the salary of an employee to get the true cost.
 
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