You should probably get your eyes checked then.
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Star Citizen loan clarification: it's an advance on their UK game dev tax rebate
- Thread starter Raticus79
- Start date
You should probably get your eyes checked then.
Ya both sides are pretty bad.
Cabbagehead
Member
So presenting facts and general knowledge. Is as bad as lies, hyperbolic bs and conspiracy theories? Gotcha.
This is a forced bipartisanship.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Are you seriously claiming the game is just "videos" used to trick people into giving them more money? Do you not know that a significant portion of the game is playable at this very moment, and even that's extremely impressive in the current unfinished state?
Outrun
Member
Sorta kinda. A few years ago the escapist did some hit piece. The site happens to be some GG haven. Also notably Smart was doing the very Trumpian thing of agitating people to harrass Chris Robert's wife on twitter.
I haven't spent a single cent on this game and likely won't even be able to buy the game if/when it releases (well, I can buy it, but not play it with my current PC), but I still find the kind of hyper negative whining and more or less unfounded doom & gloom in your & other people's posts ridiculously overblown.
The game probably has some problems behind the scenes like most games of bigger scope do (growing pains from becoming much more than the original plans, the usual troubles that come with large scale software development etc.) but I don't think anything we've heard so far indicates that the game's development is a total mess or that the game has a 0% chance of coming out. Big games take a long time to develop and Star Citizen is probably one of the biggest game projects of all time. It hasn't yet been unfathomably long since they started this, considering everything they've set out to do. I'd start to be worried if nothing has come out by late 2018 or if we don't at least have a more accurate, realistic game plan for what will happen in 2019 accompanied with game footage that shows a game (or the diffetent parts of Star Citizen) that is looking like it's getting pretty close to completion or at least is clearly far along. Before that, the kind of hysteric negativity you showcase is unwarranted.
tenderbrew
Member
Enthusiastic supporters vs crazy conspiracy theorists with zero basis in reality. Not equal really.
Eh there are plenty of criticisms in the community... Whenever these supposed "aha!" moments happen though rational people defend the creators because the anti starcitizen loonies are so crazy and virulent.
I put 30 bucks in and hope the games comes out and believe at least the single player part will. On the mmo part it's 50/50 at this point
Cabbagehead
Member
In what way exactly. I know i put on a little thick. But that's only ever as a response with facts included. Did you not see the first two threads that popped up about this, without fact checking...it was hilariously bad.
The community itself criticized the shit out of CIG, and have done so for 4 years. On reddit and on their official forums. But it's usually pretty balanced.
Dictator93
Member
I think if you look at it in a long term way, beyond people disliking this game due to a zeal amongst its defenders, I think a lot of the hate this game gets here is from the initial pitch itself. Being so heavily PC-focused and focused on a "only the best" kind of assets / graphics / systems / simulations wahtever alienates a certain section of GAF and even the game industry. It is ballsy, ambitious and is generally proud of that fact... a lot of devs I have seen on twitter dislike the arrogance. And I think on GAF it comes accross very poorly given this forum's heavy console-only population.
GHG
Member
From an outsiders point of view (I'm not invested in this project at all and would only be interested in checking it out upon final release), I have to disagree.
The level of bullshit and conspiracy theories I've seen on this subject today alone tells me that some people are genuinely losing their minds over this game for some reason.
Outrun
Member
Nope.
The utter dismissal of CIGs lack of project management is as bad as the feeble dumpster diving in order to find proof of CIGs malevolence.
I agree with you that DS and his minions are awful.
EDIT: And after today, I got to say, you might have a point.
Is this a "Smug liberals made me vote for Trump" kind of argument?
One would have to ask what those people did in the first case, such that it could not be ignored by supposedly reasonable people.
Pretty much. I don't even have that much money invested and I'm still labelled a "zealot"
spindoctor
Member
It's fine you think Star Citizen is a scam. Heck, you can even wish for it to fail if it makes you feel better.
But if you believed anything coming out of Derek Smart's mouth then you should take a moment to ponder your extraordinary stupidity before you go about the rest of your day.
But if you believed anything coming out of Derek Smart's mouth then you should take a moment to ponder your extraordinary stupidity before you go about the rest of your day.
No, it's actually pretty simple. The SC diehards see every move the project makes as brilliant, the SC haters see every move as a concern and validation that its a scam.
Cabbagehead
Member
Indeed there were issues as Interviewed By Julian Benson : http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen
And that exists for nearly every game. Talk to the Uncharted people, for example. This project isn't unusual in that aspect.
Heck it isn't unusual in fandom in general.
Yeah same here, I haven't payed even a cent (and I won't until release) and the discourse around this game is ridicilous on GAF. So many conspiracy theories and doomsaying over a game for seemingly no specific reason other than it's been in development for awhile and it's the biggest crowdfunded games.
If you're suddenly going for the "concerned moderate" approach after talking so much negativity in the second thread....
Cabbagehead
Member
That couldn't be further from the truth on a case by case basis. The main SC community can get pretty darn ugly.
He can't own up to his own bias. So he tries to proliferate.
Eh? I'm nearly a console only gamer at the moment and I have no issues with them aiming for really high end PCs. It'll be cool to see what PCs will be able to accomplish without any kind of shackles to consoles or my kind of PC owners with 8-10 year old parts in his hardware.
This is the understatement of the year.
You were deriding someone for getting a hard on for reporting so called failures about Star Citizen, while simultaneously swinging your own chub around the moment you got the chance. Like you are gleefully enjoying the idea that the "haters" are wrong. At risk of blinding you from ever taking any sort of criticism to heart.
It makes a person not want to be part of the community around this game, if this is the general attitude of the people in it.
Dictator93
Member
Oh I definitely did not want to paint with such a large brush or malign anyone who just plays on consoles!
And "fuck yeah" is all I can say to your second statement. I love when technology and simulation gets pushed forward in games...
Cabbagehead
Member
Yeah that was me calling a spade a spade. You got a problem with that for some reason? dude has a pattern of that shit. No let up.
Along with a few others.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I get the very loud people on both sides when they are all PC gamers, are or were invested in the game.
What I think it's just childish is the people who are clearly trying to use this as a goal post for their fanboy system wars, because they see the world in terms of exclusives as the end all be all, and think this is what this game is; a exclusive worth losing.
What I think it's just childish is the people who are clearly trying to use this as a goal post for their fanboy system wars, because they see the world in terms of exclusives as the end all be all, and think this is what this game is; a exclusive worth losing.
Project mismanagement is on the same level as outright conspiracy theories and outright lies?
I was talking in generalities. If you're asking about me, I backed the game at $45 but every single thing I've played of it plays like a scrabbily put together vertical slice with no indication as to how it all comes together as a real video game. The assets as they exist right now feel like they need 3 years in the oven just to get to a polished state, so the idea of them adding in huge worlds with way more cities and hubs seems insane to me at this pace of development. It sure is pretty, though.
I just don't think the project is being managed well. They're trying to do way too much all at once and should just focus on getting one significant part of the game polished before expanding.
Cabbagehead
Member
If there were ANY. Show me where it is?
Because they aren't presenting sane criticisms or arguments, specifically folks like Kris and Johnny. That has a basis of research, i mean they aren't even asking questions. They are making assumptions and accusations before asking about previous knowledge. They don't get the benefit of doubt, if they're downing in their own self induced ignorance.
Don't die on that hill. At least i admit to my faults, guess who never will?
...EA keeps their European cash in Europe to pay their European studios (which they refer to as exchange rate hedging) and funds games with completion bonds, and they have billions in positive cash flow.
They're even incorporated out of Switzerland for other such financial reasons, and I believe a fair amount of their U.S. deals are done through Caribbean islands.
This is also part of why Microsoft bought Mojang. They have a ton of U.S. cash they can't repatriate without paying huge tax sums, so they're willing to spend major buckaroos on European acquisitions since it's still a better use of the cash than paying taxes.
I mean, you are not him, but I'll just respond to you instead I guess.
By the way, I am not financially or emotionally invested in this game at all. I am very skeptical of the project and the possibility of delivering even half what was promised in a reasonable timeline (beyond the missed dates), if at all. They've missed deadlines, they have split their efforts and put much emphasis on putting on a show, so the project has suffered as a result. But saying that, I still see a big, AAA level game being developed in there, and even with those caveats this isn't me defending the studio or game or management, it's just stating my perception of what's going on.
Having established that, when you say "people using actual historical examples" you might be reading different threads than me because all I see (even in this thread) are the words: scam, ponzi scheme, fraud, and people jumping at every single opportunity to prematurely dance in a grave of their own creation, this thread included. I do have been following the development of the game, and most "defenders" while maybe too optimistic about the features and deadlines, mainly stick to facts and evidence (in the form of actually released material, which includes segments of the playable game already) to make the case that this is in fact a AAA size project being developed with some tangible results, and not a ponzi scheme where Roberts uses the money on hookers and blow 24/7. I can accept that they are not as critical and probably tough on the development studio as they could be, but to say it's "2 sides of the same coin" is just baffling, and frankly quite insulting and normalizing irrational, fanboyish behavior.
One side is overwhelmingly trollish, childish and incapable of assessing simple facts as plenty of threads signing doom and gloom on the project repeatedly show, while the other, yeah, probably guilty of being too invested still stick to evidence to make a case for an eventual release while recognizing there is trouble within. I haven't seen anyone defending this game with Derek Smart style arguments for one, and again, the development seems to be ongoing, troubled as it is. We rarely get to see those problems first hand, but many games have them.
StromboliProtocol
Banned
LOL, NeoGaf. Seriously.
Zalusithix
Member
Not quite. Once you get outside of the questions of "is the game a scam" and "is the project going to collapse tomorrow from mismanagement" the SC diehards aren't nearly as united and have tons of differences in opinions on how stuff is vs how it should be. Just about any change CIG makes is greeted by vocal criticism by at least one group of backers. While things are generally a bit more calm in the higher backer forums/chats, there's still significant amounts of discussion and disagreement.
The Dear Leader
Banned
Now who is going to pay to remove all the writing on the walls that the arm chair lawyers from the other thread where talking about?
Its classic projection, we are doing X, that must mean you are acting just like us except just for the other side.
Except i don't see defenders going down conspiracy theories on the level of Derek Smart.
Cabbagehead
Member
It's far from a echo chamber. The amount of freakouts the community has gone through is amazing. Back and forth, Back and forth. Either by way of CIG miscommunication or lack there of at times or because of the smallest shit.
Both like or love the project, some are mum about it and wait it out. Still there is a reason the community itself is split between CIG's official forum and the reddit community.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
A ton of discussion and feedback has happened over the past few years. Hell even a cursory look at their reddit shows you that.
The guy is so obsessed with Star citizen it's honestly disturbing
Chittagong
Gold Member
Banking with Coutts is a very, very high endorsement.
Yeah, I responded to you earlier in earnest, but now I see you are just taking the piss.The bolded is so far from reality I'm not even sure you are pretending to be honest here.
Tons of "diehards" have questioned a lot of decisions and some are even pissed at the missed deadlines, recognizing clear signs of mismanagement. I see it all the time in the SC thread with people that have put hundreds of dollars into it. To say they are just the same as the fanboys frothing at the mouth calling this a scam, ponzi scheme, etc. is very ignorant and dishonest.
bitbydeath
Member
I think most have been negative about the project when they found out some of the crowd funding went to buying mansions and ferraris.
https://www.pixeldynamo.com/news/ga...hris-roberts-fire-employees-escapist-article/
Stiler
Member
I don't get some of the people that seem to so vehemently want this game/project to fail, where is the gain in that happening?
Even in the face of the facts some people come out and just want to twist and turn things to somehow still fit the narrative that the game is failing.
CIG and the entire development has been one of the most transparent developments of a game.
Things like this are what many companies, especially international ones, do.
Even the movie industry does this with many individual states having tax breaks and incentive programs in order to entice movies to their state which in turn create jobs and things for that state.
Even in the face of the facts some people come out and just want to twist and turn things to somehow still fit the narrative that the game is failing.
CIG and the entire development has been one of the most transparent developments of a game.
Things like this are what many companies, especially international ones, do.
Even the movie industry does this with many individual states having tax breaks and incentive programs in order to entice movies to their state which in turn create jobs and things for that state.
Cabbagehead
Member
How did they even get that endorsement it's crazy.
Regarding current discussion about troubled development etc.
CIG currently is very open, at least for PU development, in that manner due their Schedule Reports:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report
They planned roadmap for 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 releases and they consistently every week updates those schedules and if something is delayed they explain why.
Sometimes they even show why stuff was delayed in the weekly community videos.
And delays come from the scope of the game, making systems that have not been done before, reworking some old system that wasnt future proof or generic enough, inter-dependencies of different systems between others, bugs of course and sometimes even lack of resources (sick leaves, not enough specialist in some areas etc). Which is totally normal thing for this kind of heavy R&D project.
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CIG currently is very open, at least for PU development, in that manner due their Schedule Reports:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report
They planned roadmap for 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 releases and they consistently every week updates those schedules and if something is delayed they explain why.
Sometimes they even show why stuff was delayed in the weekly community videos.
And delays come from the scope of the game, making systems that have not been done before, reworking some old system that wasnt future proof or generic enough, inter-dependencies of different systems between others, bugs of course and sometimes even lack of resources (sick leaves, not enough specialist in some areas etc). Which is totally normal thing for this kind of heavy R&D project.
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That was proven to not be true.
Cabbagehead
Member
Some folks don't like that they are selling game assets/ships for lots of money a times and the game itself. To fund the game. Other then that. There's not much else, other then a young development studio (5 years old) woes and estimations turning into delays.
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