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[YeulEmeralda]

Discussing whether or not the headline is accurate is pretty pointless given that Starfield's narrative is abysmal despite it took them a lifetime to write it. Those are facts. They say they don't have time instead of "we suck at this". Writing a 3000-page story without an end in mind is pathetic. It's exactly the opposite of good writing, and it has nothing to do with deadlines.

Dragon Age 2 had an infamously short development time and yet they still came up with an enjoyable story (it was the rest of the game that suffered for it).

 

[gaming_again]

Why are gamers expected to be understanding and supportive of issues developers experience? That's the tone I get from complaints about this article.

 

[nush]

*Via a free trial of Gamepass

Thanks Phil!

I got a PSVR for free when it was still new. So my opinion of that is fairly pragmatic, I liked it but recognize its flaws like shitloads of damn wires. However if I'd have ponyed up for it I'd have been way more negative.

People played Starfields "For free" and still say it's shit. Your game is shit.

 

[Gudji]

Makes sense.

Game is huge, difficult to comprehend how to play it.

Eventually I settled down on space ship exploration, but different star systems need more unique quests for that to work.

Will get back to it after all expansions are released.

Setting, music, artstyle are all top tier.

 

[Ozriel]

Ybarra whinging about the headline (because the article gives exactly the context required and is by no means "weaponized") is exactly why people don't trust developers to self-critique. The headline isn't the issue: the core issue is a team of 100 ballooning to 500+ to deliver objectively less content (and doing so inefficiently).

Like Shen, one of the lead developers on the fucking game, is out and out saying "We did not have the time we needed to create the climax that the story we've been telling, demands." I haven't played NG+ of SF, but there is a lack of oomph to the ending of the game that is hard to argue otherwise. In a 100 person team (such as that that made SKYRIM) where you are constantly cross-collabing, that might not have been an issue.

The headline is key because it’s what’s going out on Twitter et al…and this thread shows a ton of people don’t read past headlines.

I’m not sure how you’re spinning this as ‘developers can’t be trusted to self-critique’ when most of the critique is coming from people who attended the GDC talk, and the talk itself was seemingly more focused on sharing about pitfalls, challenges and mistakes. Essentially the robust self-critique you claim you’re not seeing.

 

[Ozriel]

Why are gamers expected to be understanding and supportive of issues developers experience? That's the tone I get from complaints about this article.

You realize this was from a talk given at GDC? Game developers conference?

You’d have a point if this was E3 or Summer Games Fest

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The headline is key because it’s what’s going out on Twitter et al…and this thread shows a ton of people don’t read past headlines.

I’m not sure how you’re spinning this as ‘developers can’t be trusted to self-critique’ when most of the critique is coming from people who attended the GDC talk, and the talk itself was seemingly more focused on sharing about pitfalls, challenges and mistakes. Essentially the robust self-critique you claim you’re not seeing.

Critique and justification are not the same things.

Critique is to say candidly "sorry, our story sucks. we will do better next time"

Talking about meetings, deadlines and "difficulties" is bullshit.

 

[Fredrik]

The temple grinding was kind of silly. Floating in the air repeatedly chasing a cluster of lights......the fuck was that? Nah....didn't care for any of that or the starborne stuff. I loved the faction quests and the shipbuilding mainly. Missed a lot of little things like vehicles for exploring planets.

I still enjoyed it quite a bit overall despite a few glaring flaws. Agree.....mod support can't come soon enough. And the expansion.

Yeah it’s the laziest power upgrade grind ever. Couldn’t they at least had an army of robots or something to plow through before you reach the temples?

Agreed on ship builder, it’s great, and the factions, those are enjoyable, Mantis quest too. And as a No Man’s Sky gamer I like the base building. Easily spent 30+ hours building a big one with robot defences and cargo links and green houses etc. It’s not as advanced as in NMS but I like it, and cargo links makes it less grindy, I’ve dabbled with placing stuff inside to make it look lived-in too, not important but cool that it’s possible.

 

[Dacvak]

Starfield is trash, Skyrim is trash, Oblivion is trash… I have never understood the obsession people have with those games, unless it truly is just all about the mods.

 

[killatopak]

Skyrim is trash, Oblivion is trash

Take that back.

 

[JackMcGunns]

some people still in denial thinking this games is a misunderstood masterpiece victim of the Xbox Tax.


but countless video assays exposing how bad Starfield actually is cannot being wrong.

If someone took the time to write an essay about a game they don't like, then there's a clear agenda.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Not a Starfield player I see, the eyeys were fixed a LOOOONG time ago lol.

 

[Edder1]

AI will replace all these useless devs.

 

[Solidus_T]

Immediate bullshit alarm from the headline. The game was in development for 7-10 years. They all had enough time - they just spent it on the wrong things.

 

[semiconscious]

Fail upwards American corporate culture. It's a very real thing, I see it everyday. It's why Elon Musk was able to axe 80% of twitter and the site still works fine; the doers never become management, they stay as ICs while the incompetent get promoted.

& done...

 

[Sleepwalker]

Take that back.

Morrowind is trash too

 

[killatopak]

Morrowind is trash too

 

[Nydius]

The best part of Starfield is the smartwatch that came with the Constellation Edition and seeing how that’s a barebones device with minimal features, that’s a pretty low bar.

I felt the side quests were far superior than the main quest and made up for a lot of the issues.

Agreed. The UC Vanguard, Freestar Ranger, and Ryujin side quests were amazing. Then you finish, and get back to the main storyline and the drudgery is obvious.

I haven't played NG+ of SF, but there is a lack of oomph to the ending of the game that is hard to argue otherwise.

You aren’t missing much. I played through NG+ 3 times hoping to get one of the rare oddball universes but didn’t get one.

NG+ gives you two options: Tell Constellation everything up front so you can hit a fast-forward button to gather all the artifacts and go straight to the ending (in order to do it all again) OR pretend it’s your first time doing it and repeat the entire game, with the only difference being dialog from other Starborn calling you out on your deceit.

The ending sequence is the same every time and the only “reward” is more powerful Starborn armor that makes the entire loot and gear elements of the game increasingly pointless.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

It was pretty good sure but it was no Lisan al-Xbox

In the end, even though being Xbox exclusive was the kiss of death for Titanfall, it still worked out for Respawn because they went on to make Apex Legends and release it on every imaginable platform and that game was both good and a huge success

You conveniently left out the part where the sequel released on all platforms, received rave reviews for both its single-player and multiplayer, and still didn't meet EA's sales metrics for a third entry to be made. Your hate boner for Xbox is ripping through your pants.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

some people still in denial thinking this games is a misunderstood masterpiece victim of the Xbox Tax.

Go read the era thread, but first prepare yourself appropriately:

 

[Ozriel]

Critique and justification are not the same things.

Critique is to say candidly "sorry, our story sucks. we will do better next time"

Talking about meetings, deadlines and "difficulties" is bullshit.

Again, This was a talk for GDC where people who make games would appreciate conversations around the challenges of making games.

You still haven’t clarified if you’re a game developer or not. But I believe the answer is obvious.

 

[StereoVsn]

Again, This was a talk for GDC where people who make games would appreciate conversations around the challenges of making games.

You still haven’t clarified if you’re a game developer or not. But I believe the answer is obvious.

Challenge or incompetence?

 

[Ozriel]

Challenge or incompetence?

Challenge. Stuff like this tends to happen across the industry.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Again, This was a talk for GDC where people who make games would appreciate conversations around the challenges of making games.

You still haven’t clarified if you’re a game developer or not. But I believe the answer is obvious.

I'm not. I write more complicated things than Starfield, though. So, I have a slight idea of what entails worldbuilding, plot, and character creation.

IMO it's fanfic-level that somebody starts writing without a potential ending in mind, no matter if it's a one-off work or a saga. In a narrative-focused videogame it's the same as in a multi-layered book. If you are time-pressed, remove side quests and secondary characters. This is all planned before getting deep in development, you don't do it when you are cornered and have to rush things to meet deadlines.

The quote from the article states that this was done in the last stages of development. For a writer, this is not a good look. This "happens a lot" because they are many bad planners and bad writers. Which doesn't make it any more excusable.

Quote from the article:

We were finally at a state in the project where we could play through the whole [game]. And it became very clear that we were missing the large final location that was going to tie the story together and have a satisfying action-filled payoff,"

 

[StereoVsn]

Challenge. Stuff like this tends to happen across the industry.

I suspect it’s both. Sure there is a lot of challenges in creating a complex game.

However, considering how Bethesda handled Starfield from narrative and characterization perspective, it’s clear they a lot of incompetence has been involved.

 

[hangdang69]

Starfield sucked even if you ignore the story