This was actually their original intention when they made the CC system. That it was to be a real risk/reward situation, where if you use a CC normal and it's blocked it is always punishable. I dunno what happened when they were making it or what drugs Woshige was giving to the devs to influence their minds to make the game into the way it is now.
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Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
This was actually their original intention when they made the CC system. That it was to be a real risk/reward situation, where if you use a CC normal and it's blocked it is always punishable. I dunno what happened when they were making it or what drugs Woshige was giving to the devs to influence their minds to make the game into the way it is now.
CountBlack
Member
it's okay tho necalli's st hk is -4 on block so you can't use it in neutral
UcchedavÄda
Member
I kinda like CCs, but it has to involve high commitment buttons for the risk/reward ratio to check out for characters that can get a big payout out of a single CC. That is not the case for a number of buttons.
Perhaps limiting the CC system to after-the-fact punishes for certain (invincible) moves would be preferable.
Perhaps limiting the CC system to after-the-fact punishes for certain (invincible) moves would be preferable.
CountBlack
Member
it's also okay that his -6 overhead that crush counters has so much pushback that none of your 6f medium buttons will punish it on block anyway
Omnistalgic
Member
Yeah I remember seeing Chun and Ryu fight for the first time and the game giving you visual cues it was your turn to attack with the blocking animations. I guess using the buttons from a longer range outsmarted the system or something. CC are really a nice concept, but as mentioned some are just too good as buttons. Starting to feel like SF4 a bit where some characters has whack focus attacks and others were amazing. CC could use some refining.
lucebuce12
Member
Ahhh Street Fighter V
give everyone a CC that's +3 on block
TheSpoiler
Member
Tekken has a more cohesive plot but that means it's easier to criticize because they've been trying. Shit better be real good imo.
Thanks fam
Thanks fam
lucebuce12
Member
What about me?😢
Regarding E3, someone on r/StreetFighter pointed out this January quote from Ono.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/20/street-fighter-surprises-teased-for-e3-or-comic-con
I had forgotten about the quote but remembered that there could be a possibility of something at E3. Thinking back to a couple weeks ago, I had mentioned John D told Bornfree and Michael Martin on twitter that they should definitely go to E3. Considering that Bornfree is more of a SF fan, I imagine John was referring to SFV surprises(s).
So maybe there will be something SFV-related at E3?
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/20/street-fighter-surprises-teased-for-e3-or-comic-con
I had forgotten about the quote but remembered that there could be a possibility of something at E3. Thinking back to a couple weeks ago, I had mentioned John D told Bornfree and Michael Martin on twitter that they should definitely go to E3. Considering that Bornfree is more of a SF fan, I imagine John was referring to SFV surprises(s).
So maybe there will be something SFV-related at E3?
UcchedavÄda
Member
.
No guarantee that it'll be SFV related, though, and I am not getting my hopes up.
lucebuce12
Member
Ehh wouldn't change much.
TheSpoiler
Member
I only expect a playable new character and that's about it tbh
Zombegoast
Member
Same as Nash. He can't V-Trigger cancel off normals like the other characters. I can't use Cr.HP xx V-Trigger cancel because it's neutral and characters with 3f moves will beat out whatever I try to throw out. And it's a one done deal
Meanwhile Laura can throw out St.MK OB and then V-Trigger to make it +4 and guess what ever bullshit she's about to do.
Should be -10 on hit, bring back the feel of Q from 3s.
lucebuce12
Member
Crush counters should all be high risk/high reward, just like they are for sweeps. It's fucking stupid that CCs are tied to amazing ass buttons that you'd be using anyway.
ColonialHawk
Member
Doesn't stop Alex players from using st.HK
Spuck-uk
Banned
Honestly I think a bigger problem is buttons having shitty active frames and doubly shitty range, combined with slow walkspeeds, makes everyone feel like Cody in SF4.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Pressing a medium and heavy at the same time doesn't mean the heavy just wins, the priority system looks at active frames, not just when you presses the button. The active frames need to overlap
If your opponent's heavy button beats your medium, it means he pressed his earlier then yours. I think only cammy has a really fast heavy, but that one doesn't even CC.
In the case of whiff punishing necalli, well you simply mistimed it, his hk was still active, without the priority system you'd still just trade or even get beaten depending on hit/hurtboxes. For reference, necalli's hk is active for 4 frames and had a recovery of 21 frames, you didn't attack during the recovery, so you didn't actually 'whiff punish' at all.
If your opponent's heavy button beats your medium, it means he pressed his earlier then yours. I think only cammy has a really fast heavy, but that one doesn't even CC.
In the case of whiff punishing necalli, well you simply mistimed it, his hk was still active, without the priority system you'd still just trade or even get beaten depending on hit/hurtboxes. For reference, necalli's hk is active for 4 frames and had a recovery of 21 frames, you didn't attack during the recovery, so you didn't actually 'whiff punish' at all.
CountBlack
Member
Okay, so when a heavy normal & a medium normal's active frames overlap, that causes a CC for the player that pressed the heavy normal. And for the player that pressed the medium button the punishment is sometimes instant death.
In your honest and ever so shilling opinion, would you call this an intelligent design?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Calling me a shill because you favour sf4 over sf5, ok.
Guess this is where I stop responding to you.
Guess this is where I stop responding to you.
sixteen-bit
Member
Who's picking up USF2?
kappa
kappa
CountBlack
Member
I apologize for calling you a shill.
With that said, would you consider this an intelligent design?
usf2 will surpass sfv and sfiv combined
Zombegoast
Member
It's Capcom shitty hurt/hitboxes that's been plaguing them.
Just think if SFV had them tied into the models instead of the general area. Balrog wouldn't gotten this crush counter. And Cammy can finally get prosthetic legs.
Just think if SFV had them tied into the models instead of the general area. Balrog wouldn't gotten this crush counter. And Cammy can finally get prosthetic legs.
The Lone Dragon
Member
Lol, the word "shill" gets tossed around all day around here.
I thought it was my special privilege, but apparently anyone can join the club if they defend SF5 for more than a sentence.
I don't want to share the title
I thought it was my special privilege, but apparently anyone can join the club if they defend SF5 for more than a sentence.
I don't want to share the title
lucebuce12
Member
USF2 had massive warning signs the moment it was unveiled. Not at all surprised it's shit value.
Jesus, Capcom is just mucking up the SF brand, and on it's 30th Anniversary no less.
Jesus, Capcom is just mucking up the SF brand, and on it's 30th Anniversary no less.
You would know.
It's Capcom shitty hurt/hitboxes that's been plaguing them.
Just think if SFV had them tied into the models instead of the general area. Balrog wouldn't gotten this crush counter.
It's Karin she deserves it
CountBlack
Member
Lol, the word "shill" gets tossed around all day around here.
I thought it was my special privilege, but apparently anyone can join the club if they defend SF5 for more than a sentence.
I don't want to share the title
so you gonna speak on the CC system if it's a smart design or nah
if you choose to, please don't compare it to Tekken/KOF/GG etc
TheSpoiler
Member
CC's just need to be toned down a bit. Especially the more ridiculous ones that favor characters like Rog.
Problem is the cost. Had it been 20, people wouldn't have cared. Like it still takes work to rebalance the game and shit, so being 10 is silly, 15 is fine, and 20 is like right on the line. Oh, and the shitty minigame, but still.
Problem is the cost. Had it been 20, people wouldn't have cared. Like it still takes work to rebalance the game and shit, so being 10 is silly, 15 is fine, and 20 is like right on the line. Oh, and the shitty minigame, but still.
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the CC + priority system on paper. Like all of SFV's problems, it's the execution of the system which is the issue.
That's like saying the FADC system was complete garbage because for a little bit of meter you could force a situation where an invincible reversal led to huge damage on hit or advantage on block. It was a win/win untjl they toned it down in USF4.
The CC priority system is the same way. There's nothing wrong with priority (it's in a lot of games, including 3S) and theoretically there's nothing wrong with CCs (they're in other games, too). The problem is some normals with CC are also extremely good and would remain extremely good if the CC capability was removed. So it's a balancing issue, not a design issue.
The design should be "In this situation I know my opponent will press a button that my CC Heavy will catch so I'll take the risk" rather than "Regardless of what happens I'm fine so why not mash Heavy".
When are we going to get back to the true beauty that is Third Strikes art style?
Look how beautiful third strike was.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I don't think it's a design problem, but more a hitbox problem.
Being able to 'poke' with a heavy shouldn't result in such big reward if their boxes were generally worse than medium buttons. But a lot of medium buttons in this game have pretty lousy boxes so they can only really overlap with heavies, instead of the medium button's hitbox only overlapping with the heavies hurtbox.
It's a tough thing to balance because you could wind up with medium buttons that are just too good for every situation.
I don't enjoy getting a max range cc boot in the face, but I think the idea behind them is that you need to be mindful of cc buttons when trying to poke, since if your opponent expects you to press a button, they can get a big punish. Kinda tying in to how offense oriented this game is.
When are we going to get back to the true beauty that is Third Strikes art style?
Look how beautiful third strike was.
I've played 3rd Strike for over a decade now... and I never get tired of that background!
When are we going to get back to the true beauty that is Third Strikes art style?
Look how beautiful third strike was.
CountBlack
Member
Yea, I believe the way it was executed was kinda trash as well tbh.
If they were able to tie CC's only to the recovery of invincible reversals and on other times only reward a regular counter hit, that'd make more sense.
They've already started changing it around since they've noticed their mistake with making some normals only give CC states on certain active frames of the move.
For example; Guile's cr.HP will only CC on the earlier active frames ( I believe ) and on the later ones it only rewards a regular CH, so when Guile AA's you with cr.HP, he isn't always rewarded a full crush counter.
More moves should be like that instead of Urien's st.HP clown fiesta
sixteen-bit
Member
This is a hilarious meme.When are we going to get back to the true beauty that is Third Strikes art style?
Look how beautiful third strike was.