Support NeoGAF

[Vuci]

Damn this is terrifying. Those minutes must seem like a lifetime.

 

[Brock Reiher]

And how would that happen if you don't have a brain? Activity needs a substrate. Without substrate you don't exist. Maybe you are religious or spiritual. Then I'm out of the discussion, but do have in mind this study proves nothing of the sort. I can sadly see this study being communicated like this:

It's not crazy to think that if you're about to die, your perception of that 30 seconds could seem like years. Also everyones ragging on you in this thread and you keep biting.

 

[Grym]

I mean, this isn't much of a surprise is it? This is why we can revive those who are 'dead' using defibrillation paddles. The brain is still active and alive until it runs out of oxygen and goes brain dead. If the heart is restarted after X minutes, I would think some form of awareness was still a possibility in the intervening time since the brain/center of awareness is not yet 'dead'.

 

[mckmas8808]

Heart-stopping ≠ death.

You're dead when your brain dies.

THIS!

 

[Brock Reiher]

Heart-stopping ≠ death.

You're dead when your brain dies.

This is factually 100% incorrect. That's why you can be alive and on life support despite being brain dead. CPR is bringing people back to life.

I mean, this isn't much of a surprise is it? This is why we can revive those who are 'dead' using defibrillation paddles. The brain is still active and alive until it runs out of oxygen and goes brain dead. If the heart is restarted after X minutes, I would think some form of awareness was still a possibility in the intervening time since the brain/center of awareness is not yet 'dead'.

You are correct. This article is essentially stating nothing at all, but as the post I quoted shows, a lot of people don't know what death actually is.

 

[ahoyhoy]

This is factually 100% incorrect. That's why you can be alive and on life support despite being brain dead.

But "you" aren't alive, your body is.

I suppose this is more of a philosophical discussion as to what "you" means.

 

[Brock Reiher]

But "you" aren't alive, your body is.

I suppose this is more of a philosophical discussion as to what "you" means.

You're talking about personhood, which is a different thing. Death is when your heart stops, there's nothing to debate.

 

[ODDI]

Lol and I just learnt or Re-animator thanks to RLM.

 

[GodofWine]

I always heard that when they chopped your head off in the guilitine that you had a good 7 or 8 seconds of awareness when your head was in the basket.

Yep. During the french revolution people going to the guillotine were asked to blink as much as possible

Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds ... I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased.The face relaxed, the lids half closed on the eyeballs, leaving only the white of the conjunctiva visible, exactly as in the dying whom we have occasion to see every day in the exercise of our profession, or as in those just dead.It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: ‘Languille!' I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions ... Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves ... After several seconds, the eyelids closed again, slowly and evenly, and the head took on the same appearance as it had had before I called out.It was at that point that I called out again and, once more, without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine with perhaps even more penetration than the first time. Then there was a further closing of the eyelids, but now less complete. I attempted the effect of a third call; there was no further movement and the eyes took on the glazed look which they have in the dead.

I have just recounted to you with rigorous exactness what I was able to observe. The whole thing had lasted twenty-five to thirty seconds.

https://www.damninteresting.com/lucid-decapitation/


So , when with a dying person, after they seem to pass, please whisper that its OK to go now, that you'll be OK or "Don't worry about mom, I'll take care of her" etc, and Thank you for a good minute.

 

[Fenderputty]

So why can't we reproduce the mechanisms to keep the brain alive after bodily death? Could we eventually?

 

[Gai Murakumo]

I do not know if I wanted to know that or not.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yep. During the french revolution people going to the guillotine were asked to blink as much as possible



https://www.damninteresting.com/lucid-decapitation/


So , when with a dying person, after they seem to pass, please whisper that its OK, and Thank you for a good minute.

Now I see why they called it Medevil times. Geeez!

 

[WooHooAlex]

K, just decided that I’m not gonna die. Ever.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Interesting article with some actual doctors and physicists talking about quantum theory and consciousness being a separate entity. I don’t really think the subject has been studied all that much because it’s too hard fo scientists to not be working towards their firm belief that consciousness is only created by the mind.

http://www.collective-evolution.com...-suggests-consciousness-moves-on-after-death/

Such fucking bullshit to claim scientists are not doing science. Your claims are unsubstantiated and laughable.

 

[PSqueak]

It's one of those "it sounds logical, but you never think it's long enough time to be significant" things.

 

[Brock Reiher]

So why can't we reproduce the mechanisms to keep the brain alive after bodily death? Could we eventually?

CPR is one

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

I’ve always known this. I had a Near Death Experience when I was a kid where I literally felt my heart slow down and stop beating. Before I got the tunnel vision with bright lights at the end I was in a state of “Oh shit, so this is what being dead feels like”. This just shows that it takes a while for the brain to really die after the heart gives up.

 

[Endo Punk]

No but once you realize what happens after you die you're really going to never wanna die.

Needs to be a movie with nothing but a black screen and a man shouting for help 😂

 

[Tripolygon]

You're talking about personhood, which is a different thing. Death is when your heart stops, there's nothing to debate.

Death: 1. The end of life. The cessation of life. (These common definitions of death ultimately depend upon the definition of life, upon which there is no consensus.) 2. The permanent cessation of all vital bodily functions. (This definition depends upon the definition of "vital bodily functions.") See: Vital bodily functions. 3. The common law standard for determining death is the cessation of all vital functions, traditionally demonstrated by "an absence of spontaneous respiratory and cardiac functions." 4. The uniform determination of death. The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in 1980 formulated the Uniform Determination of Death Act. It states that: "An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards." This definition was approved by the American Medical Association in 1980 and by the American Bar Association in 1981.

It's not so simple. But essentially, when your brain dies, everything that makes you, you is dead. Your body which is also you may be kept alive by medical devices. If your heart fails you can get another heart etc etc.

 

[Lamel]

To clarify, the study in the article is talking about people who underwent cardiac death and were brought back via resuscitation. Not about people who have experienced brain death. It's pretty interesting actually.

 

[KojiKnight]

So why can't we reproduce the mechanisms to keep the brain alive after bodily death? Could we eventually?

Because the human body is exceedingly good at it, where we aren't. Circulation and oxygination aren't easy tasks, especially the stuff that occurs on a cellular level.

 

[Kraftwerk]

Reminds me of the Ted talk by a Neuroanatomist about her near death experience and what she went through.

I remember the first time I saw this I got very emotional, as does she.

https://youtu.be/UyyjU8fzEYU

 

[ASIS]

How does panic feel if your heart isn’t pumping so hard you feel like it’s going to come out of your chest?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Heart-stopping ≠ death.

You're dead when your brain dies.

You can be clinically brain dead and still live (with assistance).

 

[RoadHazard]

You're talking about personhood, which is a different thing. Death is when your heart stops, there's nothing to debate.

Why? I know this is the common definition, but give me one rational reason? The heart is nothing but a muscle that pumps blood. Why does it stopping mean that you're instantly dead, even if your brain is still working? I just don't buy it. A braiddead person being kept artificially "alive" however, I would say is really dead. The brain is much more central to the concept of being alive than the heart.

You can be clinically brain dead and still live (with assistance).

Again, that's just a dead person in a body which is being kept artificially "alive". If you did the same to a body without a head, would you say it's alive?

 

[Ctlead]

How fascinating.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

.

 

[RoadHazard]

So why can't we reproduce the mechanisms to keep the brain alive after bodily death? Could we eventually?

It's been done with animals. Severed heads with bloodflow connected have been kept alive for quite a long time. We're not nearly good enough at that to use it on humans yet though. But some day I bet we'll have our Futurama future.

 

[yepyepyep]

I thought this was already assumed? It probably wouldn't be a clear consciousness but maybe similar to when you receive anaesthetic for an operation. You sort of feel yourself drifting out of consciousness but the line between when you are conscious and unconscious is blurred.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

So, then, an afterlife is totally feasible. The body dies. The brain is flooded with whatever chemicals that it gets flooded with upon death, remains conscious after death, falls into a dream-like state where time expands exponentially, dreams for 10 seconds, but lives 1000 years.

 

[Fenderputty]

Because the human body is exceedingly good at it, where we aren't. Circulation and oxygination aren't easy tasks, especially the stuff that occurs on a cellular level.

I was thinking more on a theoretical level. It would seem it's possible.

It's been done with animals. Severed heads with bloodflow connected have been kept alive for quite a long time. We're not nearly good enough at that to use it on humans yet though. But some day I bet we'll have our Futurama future.

Yeah this, but without the actual Nixon head.

 

[Always-honest]

Damn this is terrifying. Those minutes must seem like a lifetime.

Probably. It's at that point when your mind will become a personal hell or heaven. That seems to last forever.
Did you do horrible shit? It will come back for you in an eternal bad trip.

Spoiler

Lol

 

[ArjanN]

Whoa...whoa.

I know what she's describing about time slowing, it felt like that when I spun out once on ice. Somehow my car and I avoided any damage but there was a feeling during like I was just on a ride and I had a bit of time to accept that. Freaky stuff.

The whole "slow motion" sensation is just your body reacting to severe stress/fear by giving you a huge adrenaline rush.

 

[RoadHazard]

So, then, an afterlife is totally feasible. The body dies. The brain is flooded with whatever chemicals that it gets flooded with upon death, remains conscious after death, falls into a dream-like state where time expands exponentially, dreams for 10 seconds, but lives 1000 years.

Not likely. Contrary to popular belief, dreams have been demonstrated to unfold in real-time, not in some Inception-like compressed fashion (where a 10-second dream would feel like hours). No reason it would be different in this case.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Not likely. Contrary to popular belief, dreams have been demonstrated to unfold in real-time, not in some compressed fashion (where a 10-second dream would feel like hours) like many believe. No reason it would be different in this case.

Aw really? Damn it. I don't want to be just nothing when I die. :/

 

[Chao]

Not a lot you can do with that brain activity if your heart stopped, you’ll just go “oh well”

 

[VaultBoy101]

There was an episode of one of those horror anthology TV shows in the late 80s or early 90s about this idea, except the brain stayed 100% aware for a long time after death. Basically just an active mind in a paralyzed body.

The story ended as the autopsy was just about to begin...

Terrified me as a kid, and the idea still creeps me out even though I know it’s not scientifically possible.

 

[Monocle]

Teabagging is not meaningless after all.

Truly the most important takeaway here!

 

[Reversed]

Couldn't help thinking about (Observer game spoiler)

Spoiler

the tattoo shop part

.

The SCP tale reminds me of the thought that we become "nature stuff" after death, just with more horrific consequences.

 

[gun_haver]

That kind of thing is too scary to bear thinking about since there's absolutely nothing you could do about it. One of the rare things I'd rather not know. So even if it's true, I'm probably just gonna eject this straight back outta my mind.

 

[Airola]

Not likely. Contrary to popular belief, dreams have been demonstrated to unfold in real-time, not in some Inception-like compressed fashion (where a 10-second dream would feel like hours). No reason it would be different in this case.

But then again the experience of a dream is different from what we perceive as what's unfolding in the dream.

I agree that there could be an illusion of stuff happening more than is happening. I have so many times felt that a dream lasted for hours even though I woke up two minutes after I had last looked at a clock. It could still be that what happened in the dream actually went just right according to the real time. That if I would write down what happened in a timeline it would fill up only two minutes worth of time even though it felt longer.

But the thing is that the dreams still feel longer than they are. And dreams are not just about things happening from a moment to a next moment. Dreams are also very deep thoughts and feelings of different emotions. Sometimes a dream that didn't have much "action" has been more about me feeling tons of things and basically just about me being with my emotions. And very often those feelings feel much stronger in a dream than they feel in real life. Or at least they feel they feel stronger.

So basically even though a 10 second dream would still be 10 second long when completely unfolded, the actual experience still feels to be of different length. So, depending on how hyperactive you are with your thoughts and emotions during the short dream, it could feel much longer than it really is. And in theory it could be so that if the moment of death brings lots of flashes from your past and gets you through different emotions it could be that the experience of that could feel like it lasts forever.

I mean, there are two ways to remember things. One is to go through every single detail and go through the memory like it's a narrative. The other is to gave the general gist of the memory and have the experience in a sort of a package where you get the memory in a more abstract form. Meaning that you really couldn't put that memory in words, at least in any coherent way, but you could feel the memory without actually being able to go through the situations moment by moment.

And basically that kind of a memory would have you experience more in a lot less time. And if in a moment of dying that's literally all that there is for you to process with your brain for the last time, it could be experienced as lasting much longer than what it actually does.

EDIT:
Maybe one reason why some dreams feel longer than what they are is that we often jump from one moment to very far to the next moment but we feel we took the trip from one moment to another. Like, if I'm supposed to travel to some place in a dream, I will suddenly be there instantly, and probably will suddenly jump to a completely different situation and place altogether. But often in the dream it kinda feels as if you had made the trip to the place even if you hadn't. So basically what happens in a dream are just a small portion of what you experience the dream to be. Like, for example I'm running away from zombies, and suddenly just out of nowhere I'm in a shelter where there is a sturdy door with a window where I'm now watching the zombies who are outside. But at that moment, even though nothing much has happened, I feel both the memory of the huge danger I just was in and the huge sense of safety I'm in now, all the while I feel I have 100% knowledge of what the safe place is and what is happening in the world and just generally have way more knowledge of the situation than what the dream has shown me. This dream could be over in 10 seconds but in that time my mind could have much more information about it than what could be expected.

Thoughts can be hugely complex things that make us realize and feel and think about much more in way shorter time than we could imagine.

 

[Brock Reiher]

Not likely. Contrary to popular belief, dreams have been demonstrated to unfold in real-time, not in some Inception-like compressed fashion (where a 10-second dream would feel like hours). No reason it would be different in this case.

Dreams are when you're healthy. A brain on recreational drugs can perceive time differently, no reason to think a dying brain couldn't be similar.

Why? I know this is the common definition, but give me one rational reason? The heart is nothing but a muscle that pumps blood. Why does it stopping mean that you're instantly dead, even if your brain is still working? I just don't buy it. A braiddead person being kept artificially "alive" however, I would say is really dead. The brain is much more central to the concept of being alive than the heart.

Again, that's just a dead person in a body which is being kept artificially "alive". If you did the same to a body without a head, would you say it's alive?

Because the state of being alive or dead is arbitrary and that's the definition we have as humans for the difference between the two. It's not complicated. You're arguing against definitions, a brain dead person is still alive, that's why you say brain dead for brain dead and not heart dead for dead. You're still talking about personhood rather than physiological death btw