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Sucker Punch Scrapping Infamous 2's Cole MacGrath Model.
- Thread starter V_Ben
- Start date
Tylahedras
Banned
I like the old one, very happy they are changing it back too bad about the voice actor though I liked the old voice a lot as well.
So you are comparing a change of artstyle with the same character design, to a character redesign within the same artstyle? Okay...seady said:Remember the reaction of this when it was first revealed? Now it is one of the most beloved and memorable art direction ever in a game.
What would it be had Nintendo freaked out and pulled the plug after that outcry? That's the difference between a developer that have faith in themselves and a developer that does not.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I don't want to dogpile you here, but there are a lot of reasons why Windwaker is a poor comparison.seady said:
A) That's not supposed to be the same Link as any other Link. If he looks different, it's not an issue, because he is different. Wind Waker is not the continuation of a previous story starring the character. New era, new story, new Link. No problemo. Cole, on the other hand, is supposed to be the same Cole from the last game, and inFamous 2 is supposed to be the continuation of his story.
B) Furthermore, they actually did change his character design a bit after the outcry. Check out WW Link in the debut trailer; or peep this art:
Several minor alterations were made to his design after the Spaceworld debut. His shirt changed colour, and his features were adjusted to make him a little less elfin and less "toonish". So, they changed him after his public appearance. Changed him from a design that was in the actual design doc. Why did they do it? Maybe it was from outcry, maybe it wasn't. We can't really prove it either way.
C) Even being a different Link, it is still recognizably the video game icon Link. He's wearing a very similar uniform to previous Links, right down to his extremely distinct hat. No one who knew any prior Link would fail to identify Toon Link as some interpretation of Link. I doubt anyone, even those quite familiar with Cole and inFamous, would identify Cole 2 as Cole without any contextual clues.
D) Toon Link was created the way he was for design reasons. There was not a stitch of focus testing involved in his design. He certainly wasn't drawn that way to appeal to the crowd. Cole 2 was, admittedly on the part of the developers, an attempt to broaden the appeal of the character. Cole 2 was not their artistic vision. Cole 2 was a very deliberate attempt to create what focus groups wanted from a video game. What's happening here isn't a sacrifice of their artistic vision to appease the greater audience - it's undoing a sacrifice of their artistic vision to appease the greater audience.
E) In spite of all that, did the next console Zelda game feature Toon Link? Have any other console Zelda games featured Toon Link? No, in fact the very next console Zelda was an extreme attempt to appeal to the Wind Waker complainers. Yeah, dudes totally stuck to their vision there. Which reminds me, where's Tingle these days? Oh right, they took him out of the series because Americans complained so much. Those brave fuckers.
kyo_daikun
Member
Glad they changed it back, wasn't really feeling the new Cole (not bad enough that I would complain about it tho)
corrosivefrost
Member
fernoca said:
Let me clarify: changing the main character's entire *physical* design, particularly all facial features and age? Problem.
Change of clothes? Sure.
Your voice healed up and you're not quite as gruff? I can buy it.
Grew your hair back in? Okay, whynot?
Used a bottle of super hair dye to darken *everything up*? Yeah, I guess so. Nice job on the eyebrows, buddy.
Plastic surgery because you either (a) entered the federal witness relocation program or (b) have a strong desire to look as much as possible like Nathan Drake? UNACCEPTABLE.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Wind Waker was the best looking Zelda game ever, and it had the best animations too. People bitched, now we got the much uglier Skyward Sword style.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Cole's appearance, personality, character, etc, had so little to do with how much I enjoyed the first Infamous, I'm a little surprised for how many people it seems to be a central concern.
Think back to before you played Infamous 1. Did you really like the character design? Or was it a take-it-or-leave-it situation? My recollection could be biased, but I don't remember much enthusiasm for the character.
Think back to before you played Infamous 1. Did you really like the character design? Or was it a take-it-or-leave-it situation? My recollection could be biased, but I don't remember much enthusiasm for the character.
Yeah..that's another thing. Back then many people were making fun of the character about how plain it looked, how he looked like every other character..plus the fact that it was released so close to The Force Unleashed; people were like "lol bald guys shooting lightning"...
Now suddenly, is like is a vital key that Cole needs to look the same, even when many don't even care..
When I (and others, it seems) mention other games..we are not comparing the games per se, but comparing the reactions.
Like with Prince of Persia. Many complained about the changes from Sands of Time to Warrior Within, so they went back a little and mixed both for Two Thrones..still people weren't happy. They scrapped everything and made something different in the 2008 game; people still weren't happy; they just wanted the previous games in hi-res. Enter The Forgotten Sands....people still complained and wanted the 2008 game and ignored The Forgotten Sands and put it as a movie-tie in.
Developers need to learn that there are always going to be people that are going to complain about the changes. Granted there are always going to be people defending those changes..but is the nature of everything. And is all that uncertainty and changes and listening to their "fans" too much, that make them wary and careful with their own products..and they just end releasing fan-service as games, that weren't even what they really wanted to make. With those same fans complaining becuase they got too much fan-serivce...
If they really wanted to please the people that wanted the original design back (or a similar one) they should've just stood with their final design choice and make the original Cole an unlockable skin or something...
At the same time, it seems Sucker Punch was never sure about Cole's look..it just happened that it was revealed before they even settled for a final look...seeing how Cole 2 looked different in the in-game pics, across different artworks, in the comic-style cutscenes and the in movies..
Now suddenly, is like is a vital key that Cole needs to look the same, even when many don't even care..
When I (and others, it seems) mention other games..we are not comparing the games per se, but comparing the reactions.
Like with Prince of Persia. Many complained about the changes from Sands of Time to Warrior Within, so they went back a little and mixed both for Two Thrones..still people weren't happy. They scrapped everything and made something different in the 2008 game; people still weren't happy; they just wanted the previous games in hi-res. Enter The Forgotten Sands....people still complained and wanted the 2008 game and ignored The Forgotten Sands and put it as a movie-tie in.
Developers need to learn that there are always going to be people that are going to complain about the changes. Granted there are always going to be people defending those changes..but is the nature of everything. And is all that uncertainty and changes and listening to their "fans" too much, that make them wary and careful with their own products..and they just end releasing fan-service as games, that weren't even what they really wanted to make. With those same fans complaining becuase they got too much fan-serivce...
If they really wanted to please the people that wanted the original design back (or a similar one) they should've just stood with their final design choice and make the original Cole an unlockable skin or something...
At the same time, it seems Sucker Punch was never sure about Cole's look..it just happened that it was revealed before they even settled for a final look...seeing how Cole 2 looked different in the in-game pics, across different artworks, in the comic-style cutscenes and the in movies..
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
I suspect that most of the time, this instance included, developers "listen to the fans" in the sense that they will use fan reactions to support options that they are already strongly considering. I would guess that internally, Sucker Punch isn't 100% confident in their Cole design and they are simply citing fan reaction as a reason to do something they already want to do anyway. At least I hope that's how things are.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
HooYaH said:
The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.
Congrats, your pic is on N4G & the Examiner -_-'
mysticwhip
Banned
The Examiner steals everything from GAF.Tiger uppercut said:
They even stole screencaps I took from a YouTube vid with a shit load of artifacts in them.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Can't disagree with this.Irish said:
I don't think the original Cole is a particularly good or interesting design. It is, however, the character they established as Cole McGrath. I think some continuity between the designs is important if they're supposed to be the same guy. There was nothing connecting Old Cole and New Cole except for a name. Narratively, that's a big problem for me, and since I personally enjoyed the story of inFamous quite a bit (and even grew to like Cole himself), narrative problems are game problems.fernoca said:
I'd have swallowed it either way, because I really love Sucker Punch's games, but I'm happy for the consistency.
Irish said:I'm not even sure who New Cole is anymore. The one I call New Cole is G4.
B ______________I_______________N______________G _________________ O
You know, I think I4 Cole looks like a good mixture between G4 Cole and Original Cole. All he needs is a jacket similar to original Cole's jacket, but a different color. (White, Green, Blue, Red, or even a real Yellow would be nice.)
blindrocket
Member
Excellent. 
The Awkward Wizard
Member
This.Irish said:
Can't we bring it up and get them to improve their standards?mysticwhip said:
Did I just make a joke?
LiveFromKyoto
Member
bluedeviltron said:
*Sob* Why isn't he going to be a regular looking guy in a t-shirt anymore?
ART IS DEAD
YulB.Yeung
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
This is the only thing that bothers me about new Cole; there's no continuity with old Cole. It's not that Cole defines the game, but don't call the guy Cole when he's clearly a Steve, or a Frank.
I'm glad that Sucker Punch is scrapping Cole's character model for something else; it was like a completely different character! Unless SP came up with some weird explanation of how Cole could have went from Super dark-depressed badass dude, to College-bro where's my latte at?-guy, everyone would have hated him for sure.
The continuity would have been broken and I would have died a little inside, mourning "old Cole." :lol
The continuity would have been broken and I would have died a little inside, mourning "old Cole." :lol
DangerousMali
Member
V_Ben said:
OMG Boner
please make this an unlockable Sucker Punch
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
Maybe if we all bitch loud enough maybe Rockstar will change Max Payne back as well.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Haha
An unlockable costume that is just an awkwardly made Sly Cooper cosplay suit would be hilarious
An unlockable costume that is just an awkwardly made Sly Cooper cosplay suit would be hilarious
Ninja Scooter
Member
HooYaH said:
The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.
looks like Fred Durst. Sucker Punch does'nt know what its like to be the sad man.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
That would rock, haha.ShockingAlberto said:
Dizzle24 said:
Cole really wasn't a super dark, depressed guy though. I'd say he was excitable, but easy to frustrate. Near the end, he was left in a confused and somewhat sad (Trish was dead, but had finally accepted him) state, but he was determined to become what he needed to be to take out the beast. He had also grown comfortable with his powers and had gained a new confidence once people saw him as a true hero. (All of this is based on the seemingly canonical good ending.)
cjtiger300
Member
Irish said:
Play the villain side Broken! You will love it!!!!! Honestly, the game is easier on Hero though.
Azure Dream
Member
I'll just be happy if early enemies don't snipe you constantly from six different directions with perfect accuracy, and Cole doesn't move around the shield I'm using to block turret bullets along with his damn idle animation. :lol
The Take Out Bandit
Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
So he'll just be a white douche in a jacket like the first game?
Seriously guys, why waste your valuable time arguing over the most throw away designs this generation has been crapping out?
I hereby dub this bullshit generation WHITE PEOPLE GEN!
Let's hope next generation games don't recruit their characters from fucking frat houses, okay? Also less garish lighting effects, and everything looking shiny as fuck. GOD DAMN!
Unknown One
Member
With not much gameplay shown it's obvious why people are talking about character designs just like the previous Infamous 2 threads.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Considering the generally asinine things you argue over, I don't think you should be calling anyone out, TToB.The Take Out Bandit said:
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
but new Cole was sexy.
edit: if you
re into that sort of thing
edit2: which i am
edit: if you
re into that sort of thing
edit2: which i am
"It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." - Steve Jobs
In this case, gamers don't know what they want until you let them play it and get attached to it. Not a good idea to scrap it prematurely when they only saw several images or a trailer of it.
In this case, gamers don't know what they want until you let them play it and get attached to it. Not a good idea to scrap it prematurely when they only saw several images or a trailer of it.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Again, unless there was a magic handwave to explain why Cole de-aged ten years, completely altered his facial structure, changed his hair colour, and threw out all his clothes, no amount of time "getting used to it" would have solved my issue with New Cole.seady said:
Like, are you actually going to listen to anyone here, or are you just going to keep getting back up on the imaginary cross for DESIGN FREEDOM?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
to be fair, it's not like we were dealing with Personality McInteresting in old Cole. Most people probably don't even remember what he looked like.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I really wonder about all these people who played through the whole game, enjoyed it, but completely hated Cole. I'm not going to hold him up as some epic design of any sort, but surely he deserves better than to be obliterated for not being pretty enough and replaced with some sick sexy identity thief?Rez said:
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
It's not that I hate the character, I just... barely remember him.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Maybe I could jog your memory by crank-calling you as Zeke?Rez said:
Segata Sanshiro said:
I loved InFamous for the gameplay, not for the characters...in fact, characters were a major weakness for the first title.
I was thinking that with InFamous 2, they were making strides at improving the characters. I was open minded to the idea of completely changing the design in favor of something more distinct and appealing.
I honestly don't care whatsoever about continuity when the first game didn't have memorable characters at all.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Rez said:
That's because you spent the entire game staring at the back of his head.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Zeke, I remember. If I had a dartboard his face would be on it.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I just don't get it. I thought the gameplay was ridiculously pedestrian on its own. Not much better than Web of Shadows, even. The story was what I felt elevated the game, and while the characters weren't the most likable lot, they were certainly different from the usual stock.Redbeard said:
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, though. A lot of people hated Sly's supporting cast, as well.
seady said:
This is very true.
Without any sort of context, or script, gamers were dismissive of the new direction.
I guarantee that gamers would learn to love the new Cole with a finished product. Which is why Sucker Punch should not listen to the fans when the fans are basing decisions/reactions on incomplete information.
Segata Sanshiro said:
The game's mechanics are simply unrivaled in an open world game. Most titles have horrible shooting/power/platforming mechanics...GTA, Crackdown, AC all come to mind as feeling very clunky, but InFamous was the first open world game that felt tight and fluid, like a well done third person shooter fused with a great platformer in an open environment.
The story was very good; main supporting characters weren't.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
New Cole only existed because they were trying to appease focus groups. Why do you guys keep pretending he was anything other than that?Redbeard said: