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[Hoo-doo]

Jumping. I could take a swan dive off my patio right now and I'm fairly certain I wouldn't survive the fall. Getting to a high place isn't exactly difficult in this day and age.

You're kidding, right?
The chances of you climbing on top of your patio and doing a perfect swan dive (if you'd even be able to pull off anything like that under extreme duress) and cleanly killing yourself are pretty damn slim. You'd likely break a few limbs and get patched up. It's not remotely as immediate or effective as a gun, what a ridiculous notion.

And going to a higher building requires the aforementioned prep-work and completely removes the immediacy of a gun as well. Suicides are often not all that premeditated.

 

[ShironRedshift]

You're kidding, right?
The chances of you climbing on top of your patio and doing a perfect swan dive (if you'd even be able to pull off anything like that under extreme duress) and cleanly killing yourself are pretty damn slim. You'd likely break a few limbs and get patched up. It's not remotely as immediate or effective as a gun, what a ridiculous notion.

And going to a higher building requires the aforementioned prep-work and completely removes the immediacy of a gun as well. Suicides are often not all that premeditated.

In addition to this, it's very well known in the field of psychology that while women contemplate and attempt suicide more often than men, more men than women successfully commit suicide. The reason? Men are much more likely to use guns to do so compared to other methods than women. The facts and statistics speak for themselves.

 

[brianjones]

good god no

what the fuck dude

what the fuck what?

sorry I take suicide seriously

 

[diaspora]

lol @ calling the police/EMS

Yeah, corner the suicidal guy with the gun.

 

[Pizza]

All y'all jumping to handle the guy with bubble wrap and kid gloves are going to make him feel like a burden, a problem, or alienate him

Nothing fixes suicidal thoughts faster than "yo brother I'm not close with, suddenly I care and I'm taking your gun and putting you in the hospital!" Or calling the cops or w/e

Idk maybe talk it out with guy like a person? Personally I don't like to keep a gun or rope around, but I have no need for either of those things (like, I don't shoot as a hobby or tie knots for laughs)

I LOVE how when I was extra fucked in high school my parents handled it by telling me to see a shrink or it wasn't actually real. Mainly I just wanted to talk my emotions out with someone close to me. To this day I would rather not go spill my shit to someone who is doing it for a paycheck.

They've never fucking treated me the same since then though. There's always an undertone of "what if he KILLS HIMSELF" so they're never real with me.

Depression blows, try and encourage him to get a hobby or invest his time in something that's meanginful to him. Coming out of nowhere with "UH OH you expressed suicidal thoughts and own a GUN?" And getting the cops to dump him in a hospital is a cool way to dehumanize him into a problem.

Also saying shit like "your life isn't so bad!" isn't terribly cool either. Everyone is different but the "lock him up!" People in the thread aren't really right unless he's already tried to off himself

Edit: if you're not terribly close to him and don't really have the ability to be, try hitting up his friends discreetly and let them know. They may be able to help him out in ways you can't, you know? My family was absolutely worthless for finding any sort of reason to live. Not calling you worthless, it just may not be your place

 

[Anung]

call the police

force the issue

talking suicide with access to firearms is taken seriously

Do not call the police. Don't give him the option to suicide by cop.

 

[brianjones]

yeah just tell someone who's suicidal that they need to get a hobby

much better than letting medical professionals deal with the issue

its not about "locking him up" for life .. 51/50 holds are 72 hours and they can work from there to get you professional help

 

[Vilix]

call the police

force the issue

talking suicide with access to firearms is taken seriously

.

 

[Mailbox]

The amount of people in this thread saying "don't take his gun away b/c it doesn't matter" is fucking infuriating.

 

[Forsaken82]

My point was that a suicidal person is more likely to commit suicide when they have access to an effective method. Out of all the methods guns are most likely to work and, while there is a mental barrier to overcome, have a low mental barrier. Well, medication has a lower barrier, but is less likely to work. You can look at any number of studies that show gun owners are far more likely to commit suicide.

So can a belt or a cord. IT doesn't matter what the tool is. A person will find a way.

 

[Mailbox]

So can a belt or a cord. IT doesn't matter what the tool is. A person will find a way.

so you're basically insinuating that nothing should be done because its moot, right?

fuck off with that shit.

 

[styl3s]

It is that simple. I work in the ER and deal with this every single day.

A suicidal patient is an immediate threat by definition.

Your moral responsibility is to get him the help he needs. The law has specific provisions for this and he will rightly be involuntarily committed until a psychiatrist assesses him.

Don't you need some kind of proof? I can't believe you can just call the police and say "X person is suicidal" and they will go snatch them up without any kind of indication that the person is suicidal. What if the cops show up and the brother comes off as completely normal and non-suicidal? Then what? They still take him because someone called them with 0 proof? That seems like a fucking lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[mhayes86]

I'm not sure if it's that simple. I don't think police will involve themselves unless it's an immediate threat. If it's not an immediate threat, wouldn't hurt to call the local police non-emergency number to see what can be done. If it is immediate, call the cops.


To OP, you say you're not very close with your brother. Maybe the first step would be getting closer to him. Don't try to change him from the start, just be there for him how you can. I don't know your situation and I know how difficult this sort of stuff is.

Don't let it get to the point where if something did happen you'll say to yourself "I could have done more". This is your chance to do "more". Not everyone gets this chance, don't let it pass you by if you can do something about it.

This. There may not be much the cops are going to do unless there's an immediate emergency, and even then it'll be rough to get them to do much. If 911 were to be called and your brother taken to the hospital, he'd be home the next morning and right back where he was before.

I've seen this several times with family, and it's awful. Unless the person suffering from mental illness is willing to do something about it, forcing the matter will not do much.

 

[Rumblebones]

Get the police involved, immediately. Your brother might not hurt himself, but if he does, he might not just hurt himself. Point is, given the information you posses, you can absolutely not allow yourself to take that risk.

Call the cops.

 

[Ri'Orius]

You've gotta be shitting me. Is this a popular opinion? Glaze over suicidal tendencies unless a gun is present? Maybe just remind them that life is precious if there's no gun. But if there's a gun you should call the police immediately?

Am I actually wrong here??

Literally nobody is saying "glaze over suicidal tendencies."

Risk of suicide is a spectrum. Most people have the occasional intrusive thoughts on the matter, but clearly they don't need to be involuntarily committed: there's low risk there. Someone with persistent ideation and access to a firearm is a much larger risk. Someone with the exact same amount of ideation but no access to a firearm is a lower risk.

So yes, the presence of the gun matters. It increases the risk of a successful suicide attempt.

So can a belt or a cord. IT doesn't matter what the tool is. A person will find a way.

The tool very much matters. Yes, it's possible to hang yourself, but a gun is easier, and that matters. The statistics are very clear on this subject.

You're thinking about what can work, but that's not the end of the discussion. What's likely to work matters.

 

[Yayate]

Whatever you do, talk to him first. If it doesn't help, you might need to get the police involved, but don't immediately jump to that without even being there for him.



And yes, having a gun definitely makes these things easier. I would've probably killed myself years ago if I had one. I wouldn't have had to worry about pain, or any required setup. Nothing'd be able to stop me, and no sensation would be able to snap me out quickly enough.

Adding any additional time or effort means that you're forced to think about your actions more, and that alone can stop people from ending their own lives. Some people will do it regardless, but guns definitely enable sudden and drastic impulses.

 

[Pizza]

yeah just tell someone who's suicidal that they need to get a hobby

much better than letting medical professionals deal with the issue

its not about "locking him up" for life .. 51/50 holds are 72 hours and they can work from there to get you professional help

lol I didn't choose my words carefully at all but my main point is that you CAN work around Depression. If he is dissatisfied with living to the point of mentioning suicide there's a reason for that.

If he doesn't want to seek help you can either force it on him, which may or may not work, or get other people around him to try and do something about it.

"Expressing suicidal thoughts" could be the result of a bad day, bad week, bad month, or bad year. Based on the OP idk how long this has been happening for.

Maybe the guy has depression but has been in a rut for the last few months. Sure forcing a phychiatrist to tell him that is an option, but maybe a friend could over similar advice. If the OP's brother isn't close with him or maybe even his mom then hearing "go see a shrink" could just be something empty to him: a throwaway line from people who aren't really getting to the core of WHY he feels that way

But having the cops come take his gun and put him in time out may just make him feel like a shithead. I don't know the situation and I'm not pretending to be a professional, but it's doable.

I'm not telling the guy to literally say "yo get a hobby" but if OP started going backpacking with him, for example, that's a thing that could be fun/different/eye opening in regards to whatever is happening in his life that's causing his depression to worsen to considering suicide.

I just think there are real human interactions that can happen between "I feel suicidal" and "alright you're seeing a phych now" and those interations can be substantially more meaningful because, to him, it means the people around him actually give a shit about him as a thinking thing to sincerely try and help in a way beyond "oh no I hope he doesn't blast his brains out!" Like, caring that he's depressed at all to begin with would probably mean more to him

But also i don't have 10000% of the details and I'm absolutely not a trained professional. My experience was getting told "oh wow well if you're depressed you obviously need to go to therapy" without them actually trying to engage me at all themselves.

That resulted in me feeling like a problem and a burden that wasn't worth help from anyone outside someone who was paid to and I tried to kill myself. I didn't have access to a gun, but the gun itself wasn't the crux of the issue.

That was eight years ago and I've learned to cope and find meaning in my life myself. OP's brother could very well need professional help, or he just needs something meaningful and personal. I don't know and I don't pretend to: all I have is my own experience and I'm sincerely sorry if it comes across as asinine

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

Dont forget about the suicide helpline. https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org

You can call them for advice if your brother doesnt want to call them himself. Also try to bond with him so he has someone to think of to prevent committing it. It's probably going to be a long process for him to get out of depression but you can get closer to him during this time too.

 

[Emerson]

Don't you need some kind of proof? I can't believe you can just call the police and say "X person is suicidal" and they will go snatch them up without any kind of indication that the person is suicidal. What if the cops show up and the brother comes off as completely normal and non-suicidal? Then what? They still take him because someone called them with 0 proof? That seems like a fucking lawsuit waiting to happen.

Frighteningly, no you do not. Laws vary by state, but in most (all?) you can absolutely call and accuse someone of making a suicidal statement and they will be involuntarily detained until they are cleared by a psychiatrist. You could do this and completely ruin somebody's day.

I have absolutely seen this done to people who were not suicidal by vindictive exes. In that case, they get hauled into the ER, blood taken from them, and locked in a psych room until a psych worker can see them. They are then pretty quickly found to not be suicidal, but it's still a good 6+ hours of your life gone. The law necessarily allows and protects police, doctors, and others to initiate a 24-hour involuntary hold for their own safety.

The nature of our litigious society is that nobody can ignore even the hint of suicidality, because if someone did and the person killed themselves then you know somebody else is getting sued.

 

[disappeared]

As someone who survived an attempt a decade ago, I wholeheartedly encourage your brother to speak to a professional. And soon.

 

[Kurdel]

Here in Québec you can contact the police so they can temporarily seize the guns until the crisis period subsides.

As a family member, you can try to talk him into calling the cops, maybe they have a similar program in your area.

 

[Angry Grimace]

yeah just tell someone who's suicidal that they need to get a hobby

much better than letting medical professionals deal with the issue

its not about "locking him up" for life .. 51/50 holds are 72 hours and they can work from there to get you professional help

You can't just 5150 anyone you want on command

 

[notsol337]

People keep conveniently ignoring my point that if someone wants to kill themselves, that is the actual problem. And owning a gun shouldn't increase the urgency of that. This thread looks like it was tailor made to target guns since for whatever reason OP felt like mentioning their brother was conservative. That's completely fucked up. And I'm a liberal who believes in TIGHT gun control.

Don't parade your politics in suicide topics.

Hey, I own several guns myself. I usually don't like to bring that up on GAF because lots of other posters disagree with personal firearms ownership, and I don't usually like arguing over the internet.

However, doing cursory research on your own into the issue from sources you trust will show you that ease of access to a firearm increases the likelihood of a suicidal person actually going through with killing themselves.

From what I understand, people that have survived leaping off of tall things usually instantly regret their actions during their fall. People with a gun don't need to worry about that, I think.

No, the issue here isn't the gun. The issue here is that the OP's brother is in one of the most statistically likely situations to actually follow through with killing himself. If he really does want to kill himself, he'll find a way without a gun, but sometimes all the extra effort and uncertainty of success puts it off long enough for someone to start thinking it might be worth staying alive.

 

[Emerson]

The argument is just so fucking stupid.

Yes, obviously, someone who is just that determined to die will find a way no matter what situation they're in.

The point is that the vast majority of people who commit suicide are not that determined. It's often a fairly impulsive decision.

 

[HeySeuss]

Don't you need some kind of proof? I can't believe you can just call the police and say "X person is suicidal" and they will go snatch them up without any kind of indication that the person is suicidal. What if the cops show up and the brother comes off as completely normal and non-suicidal? Then what? They still take him because someone called them with 0 proof? That seems like a fucking lawsuit waiting to happen.

In Ohio you need way more than that for an involuntary hold. Just because someone says they have suicidal thoughts or are contemplating suicide by itself isn't enough. They have to have a plan and the means to carry out their plan. For the op, just having a gun might not be enough to have his brother held for observation and help.

Now, if he just bought the gun after saying he was suicidal, that might be enough. But someone that already owns a gun, just saying they're suicidal isn't enough. Yes, guns are usually one of the main sources of male suicide, but just owning a gun and saying you're suicidal isn't going to get you committed. In Ohio at least.

You have to have a plan of how you are going to kill yourself as well. Otherwise anyone who said they were suicidal would be committed.

 

[Emerson]

In Ohio you need way more than that for an involuntary hold. Just because someone says they have suicidal thoughts or are contemplating suicide by itself isn't enough. They have to have a plan and the means to carry out their plan. For the op, just having a gun might not be enough to have his brother held for observation and help.

I don't know the specifics of Ohio law, but there is really no way to legally and medically determine if they have a plan or means without intervention. Now certainly an outpatient psychiatrist could make that decision. But if the police are involved and they're told a patient is suicidal, they are not qualified to make the judgment whether the patient is serious or not. So, at least in my state, there is very liberal use of a 24 hour involuntary hold until a qualified mental health professional can evaluate them.

Specifically, from my state's legal code:

§ 5004 Emergency detention of a person with a mental condition; justification; procedure.

(a) Any person who believes that another person's behavior is both the product of a mental condition and is dangerous to self or dangerous to others may notify a peace officer or a credentialed mental health screener or juvenile mental health screener and request assistance for said person. Upon the observation by a peace officer or a credentialed mental health screener or juvenile mental health screener that such individual with an apparent mental condition likely constitutes a danger to self or danger to others, such person with an apparent mental condition shall be promptly taken into custody for the purpose of an emergency detention by any peace officer in the State without the necessity of a warrant.

So as you can see it puts the burden on the police officer to make the judgment whether the accusation is real or not. However, they are protected from liability for this. So in our litigious society, the police are pretty much always going to err on the side of detaining the patient and bringing them involuntarily to the hospital.

 

[Pizoxuat]

See if he'll talk to a crisis counselor?

 

[HeySeuss]

I don't know the specifics of Ohio law, but there is really no way to legally and medically determine if they have a plan or means without intervention. Now certainly an outpatient psychiatrist could make that decision. But if the police are involved and they're told a patient is suicidal, they are not qualified to make the judgment whether the patient is serious or not. So, at least in my state, there is very liberal use of a 24 hour involuntary hold until a qualified mental health professional can evaluate them.

Specifically, from my state's legal code:



So as you can see it puts the burden on the police officer to make the judgment whether the accusation is real or not. However, they are protected from liability for this. So in our litigious society, the police are pretty much always going to err on the side of detaining the patient and bringing them involuntarily to the hospital.

I'm a police officer in Ohio. That's how I know. In order to "pink slip" someone, which is to take them into medical care for up to 72 hours, you have to meet the criteria. Which is suicidal feelings that are current, a plan to carry out your feelings, and a means to complete it.

We always try to convince them to see someone, but we can't force someone unless it's an imminent verifiable threat.

Edit: Also, we are not protected by liability for taking someone into custody for an involuntary hold. If someone is suicidal, they still have constitutional rights (4th amendment specifically). That's why it has to meet the criteria, because we are effectively taking away their freedoms and can be held liable for a civil rights violation. There's no such thing as a good Samaritan law in these situations. But remember, I'm speaking from Ohio's law.

 

[protomouse]

I seriously can't think of a more accessible suicide method than a gun. When I was contemplating suicide, I never came up with a method that wasn't scary and painful (like drowning or jumping) or unreliable (like pills). Thankfully I live in a country where you need special permission from the police to own a gun.

If you haven't done so, I recommend talking to both the police and a counseling professional to learn what options your family has in your local jurisdiction.