Monocle
Member
Trump is kind of worse since his actions have lead to the actual deaths of people. And the destruction of thousands of immigrant families. Not to mention the effects of his retrograde positions on science.
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Suicides In Rural America Increased More Than 40% In 16 Years
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teruterubozu
Member
I see. I guess wishing people would die is morally superior. Rock on!
Monocle
Member
Wishing is a bit less destructive than actually making it happen, so...
teruterubozu
Member
Yes I know, we need to parse everything around here, so...
Monocle
Member
Well if you're going to say absurd things like "no better than Trump," yeah. Trump is responsible for pure fucking real-life evil. I think a bunch of people expressing their frustration on a message board are in a higher moral category. And since the point of this place is discussion, this kind of distinction matters.
Beware false equivalence. It's one of the fastest ways to poison a conversation. If you want to take this in a constructive direction, avoid labels and interrogate the statements you object to. I mean, engage those posters and invite them to think through their positions and defend their opinions.
I know that personally I've caught myself thinking and probably saying that all those rural morons should die already and make way for progressive voters, but that's just reactionary self-gratification. It doesn't address the complex reality of the situation, which becomes clear in the course of any reasoned conversation about rural America past or present, or the reasons behind voting patterns by location and demographic. If we're going to talk about this stuff, let's try to do it right.
teruterubozu
Member
Fair enough, Monocle. Just frustration as a rural dweller who votes Democrat. Nothing more.
theignoramus
Member
Maybe these places would be doing better if they hadn't carried on the sundown town legacy for generations.
teruterubozu
Member
See, Monocle? It's kinda pointless, really.
Paracelsus
Member
Modern world unironically made living more trouble than it's worth, you have to bend over backwards just to scrape by.
Monocle
Member
It's all good! I'm sure we're mostly on the same page with the future we want for this country.
It also doesn't help when state legislatures vote to not expand healthcare under the ACA, or that they still are buying into the whole bootstrap fallacy.
Every political thread could use more of this. I know it'll be drowned out in the long run, so I'm quoting it so I can feel like I did my pointless part.
Yeah I get it's not easy but for sure these regions really need to widen their perspective in terms of understanding what's going on, why and what realistic (i.e. not hope and prayer based) options are available to them.
I have to agree though that in terms of current political climate the opposition party (Democrats) should be putting serious effort into engaging in these regions and they should do it without arrogance or any sense of superiority.
The bar is pretty low: showing a sensible path vs asking for blind faith. But its obvious how the message is delivered is key.
I don't understand why people overrate city life so much, it's whatever. If you're educated and know there's problems with rural access why live in the city? Had this same discussion a week prior when I told my friend that it would likely that I move out of Toronto when the time is right.
This problem is definitely worse in some places like the US, which sucks
This problem is definitely worse in some places like the US, which sucks
entremet
Member
There's also suburbs. But the most desired suburbs are close to big metros.
Rural counties are what are getting left behind.
Krauser Kat
Member
Just because you dont line in Toronto any more doesnt mean you are rural. Unless you are planning on going 2-3 hours from the nearest metropolitan.
I can understand the sentiment with being angry. I do feel it is important to always keep things in perspective though. Each region has different lived experiences, then on top of that a different culture and education level. It is easy to disparage people for not seeing things the same way as you do, but there are reasons behind it.
I think right now people are grasping for whatever small sign of hope they can find, and thus they are listening to Trump as he is the only one not calling them deplorable, rednecks, hicks, or wishing they would just fade away and die. I have no doubt he cares little for small town folks but people are desperate for anything. They just want hope. I'm on a tablet away from home so I can't really double check, but I think the first article I linked to in my last post talked about it a little. People are just watching their towns literally fall apart and waste away in front of their eyes.
The problem is, I am not sure how to fix it. Everyone can't just pack up and move to the city. It tends to be more expensive and many won't have the skill set available to find a job with a livable wage. If you already have a family to support it is even tougher cost wise. Even if many did move, quite a few wouldn't make it because their values and worth are based on different things. Then there is the fear that nobody would want a rural person anyway. More often than not, when I do voice chat in games, I take more flack for being a Texan (the accent doesn't help) than I ever do for being a girl online.
The difficulty of transition, lack of jobs, decay of community, decline of faith/religion, and the above are no doubt what is helping drive rural communities to suicide. Also covered by the journalist I linked to (can't remember which article though) are some of the small town drug addicts. Many of them have given into drugs specifically as a form of suicide. They don't have the courage (their words, not mine) to pull a trigger. It is all rather sad to say the least.
None of this excuses the current political situation. I do feel it is important to actually listen and understand these people though and just how different our worlds have become. It would explain why we are in the mess we are in. Instead of some people wishing death on them, realize they are people stuck in a crappy situation and feel like they have very little left or that the few options they have are hopeless. If not, then that wish will become a self-fulfilling prophecy as more and more kill themselves off due to alienation.
TenCentCoast
Banned
Here, to put it in simple terms for some of you: saying someone deserves death or that rising suicide rates are good is a bad thing, period.
in before "BUT WHAT ABOUT HITLER??????"
when people finally realize who the president is will have no affect on their lives in these rural areas, they can start to unwind years of decay and brain flight that has plagued them for years.
You think the president had any impact on how successful Texas has been with growing? Kansas City? A president didn't send Kansas back to the 1800s
The president isn't going to be the one to fix the opioid problem in a timely manner, the president isn't going to help bring jobs to their area, the president isn't going to help them educate themselves, etc.
When people vote for federal roles to help their lives in small towns, they are just as bad as the democrat voter who only votes every 4 years.
Democrats need to realize this too while marginalizing rural voters. Guess what? Land votes and has as big an impact if not moreso then people. Your (D) governor or your (D) President isn't going to get shit done when both state legislatures and the house are both determined by land and not solely population. Cities can't take over a state or federal government.
You think the president had any impact on how successful Texas has been with growing? Kansas City? A president didn't send Kansas back to the 1800s
The president isn't going to be the one to fix the opioid problem in a timely manner, the president isn't going to help bring jobs to their area, the president isn't going to help them educate themselves, etc.
When people vote for federal roles to help their lives in small towns, they are just as bad as the democrat voter who only votes every 4 years.
Democrats need to realize this too while marginalizing rural voters. Guess what? Land votes and has as big an impact if not moreso then people. Your (D) governor or your (D) President isn't going to get shit done when both state legislatures and the house are both determined by land and not solely population. Cities can't take over a state or federal government.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
yeah its pretty embarassing to read that type of heinous shit from this forum but im not all too surprised
Capitalism is a harsh mistress. One generation you're eating well and making decent coin, and the next that same mistress has ditched you and you're left in squalor. It's easy to focus on the symptoms (globalization) or just outright shift blame onto others (minorities and the 'threat' of multiculturalism), but at the end of the day the system is the system and the system always comes first. The point is to not share the money and the power but to maximize it in as few hands as possible, and the quicker and easier that happens the better.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Given that Third World means "not aligned with either America or the USSR" it seems like it would be pretty difficult for us to be a third world country!
Laevateinn
Member
Language evolves and nobody means that when they say third world nowadays.
BinaryPork2737
Unconfirmed Member
The phrase specifically refers to underdeveloped countries/least developed countries. The old usage of the phrase largely died with the end of the Cold War.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
Once Trump brings manufacturing back to the US things will get a lot better for these people! And as Trump said on the campaign trail everyone will have healthcare thanks to his healthcare plan! Things are only looking up for rural America!
/s
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's very possible that these people also voting against their economic and health interest.
IISANDERII
Member
The propaganda machine is very well oiled. And quiet. People killing themselves in despair, nowhere to turn because they've been brainwashed into believing that this is the way of things. The price of freedom, liberty, the pursuit of happiness: It has to claim some victims, right? And when the victim is me, who am I to complain? I got the bad roll so I'm just going to deal with it. Until I'm so defeated that I'll take my own life. That people all around me seem to be doing the same doesn't ring any alarm either.
It's all in the name of "the system".
People are making this a political issue but honestly being in the field all I notice is the increase in the drug epidemic and nobody combating it. We had needle exchange programs and even that upset people but the heroin epidemic seems to always be on the periphery of the news and never quite addressed head on despite it being a huge tax on jobs in the community.
I really wish someone would address the issue head on as it is spiraling out of control.
I really wish someone would address the issue head on as it is spiraling out of control.
CrunchyFrog
Member
While the doc's are the ones that ultimately prescribe them and there is considerable onus on them to fight this rising tide of opioid addiction, the majority of the blame still lies with pharmaceuticals and manipulative marketing tactics. The potential for addiction has been known for decades, but misleading advertising schemes aimed at doctors and ESPECIALLY vulnerable pain sufferers in the late 90's/early 00's led to where we're at today. It's hard to tell a desperate patient no when they've heard about some magic pill that fixes everything in a commercial or random blog post or chain email, especially coupled with the sometimes inexact science of pharmaceutical medical care and the well-documented Dunning-Kruger effect. I would hazard that close to 2/3 of opioid addicts today started as legitimate pain sufferers looking for a solution that became worse than the disease through no overt fault of their own. It's gonna take decades to roll this stuff back, but thankfully there are efforts out there today to make a start of it. Main one being to urge people to try tylenol or other NSAID's before jumping to hard narcotics.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
So what do you suggest that's better than capitalism?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This isn't captialism that's doing this. The "system" doesn't do what dabig2 said persay. Captialism does what people "want" it to do. There's somethings that happen outside of human control, but most of it is controlled by humans.
There are choices made that lead to these folks wanting to kill themselves now.
IISANDERII
Member
I kinda rushed my post so I wasn't clear. I agree with you. "the system" and all that shit is the brainwashing that people eat up so they accept their spiralling quality of life.
There are many conscious forces at play, working to erode liberties bit by bit. It's so gradual that people aren't even perturbed that the US isn't even a democracy any more.
So yes, we're not seeing mass suicides in Norway, Sweden or even Germany. I hope Americans will realize why.
It's a political issue because there's only one party that supports those types of interventions, and the people living there won't vote for it.
Mike Pence created an HIV epidemic in the middle of Indiana because he shut those programs down when he took office.
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