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[Sad Affleck]

I find it interesting that PC gamers spend so little cash on games outside of those areas. Like I said with PC having more or less 100% digital and consoles is like 20-30% and yet beat PC in revenue. If you wonder why PC often have to wait or get shitty ports of AAA this is probably the reason.

It's all a matter of interpretation, imo. Most of the titles that drive the console retail business are either not available on PC (console exclusives, Destiny, Madden), they become available late (GTA V, possibly FF XV) or they just don't sell that well on PC compared to consoles(COD, FIFA, NBA 2&#311. Many of these are mass market games and they constitute a huge part of total console game sales each year since consoles are mass market gaming devices. Without the sales of these heavy hitters it is impossible for PC gaming to come close to total console revenue if we only count sales of traditional 'boxed' video games.

Console gaming and PC gaming both have a mass market audience and a core gamer audience. The console's mass market audience plays COD, FIFA, GTA. The PC's mass market audience plays League of Legends, DOTA and Counter-Strike GO. I believe that the core gamer audience is pretty similar between console and PC. Understanding the differences in mass market preference between the two platforms is essential if you want to understand why the numbers are the way they are.

One last thing, about retail sales on PC. PC retail might be dead in the US but in Europe it's still very much alive. Day one prices of games on Steam, Origin, Uplay and the Windows Store are really expensive and retail prices are almost always significantly cheaper. Most of my day one PC purchases this year have been retail games, the only exceptions were download-only indie games.

 

[LordRaptor]

How is that a comparisons to this?

You understand that is DIGITAL downloads only?

Yes they spend the same on digital but there is no briks and mortar shop for retail games for PC while on console the briks and morfars it is 3-4 times as big as digital.

Because "consoles" is not a platform;
A < (B+C) does not mean A is less than B AND ALSO A is less than C, which it would have to make "PC gamers spend less than other consumers do on this one specific product type" true

Physical doesn't come into this.
We have financial reports from multiple third parties for total sales where A ~= B ~= C

 

[MUnited83]

Because "consoles" is not a platform;
A < (B+C) does not mean A is less than B AND ALSO A is less than C, which it would have to make "PC gamers spend less than other consumers do on this one specific product type" true

Physical doesn't come into this.
We have financial reports from multiple third parties for total sales where A ~= B ~= C

Not to mention physical/retail PC games still have a relevant size in certain European markets, and a pretty big size still in several Asian ones.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Because "consoles" is not a platform;
A < (B+C) does not mean A is less than B AND ALSO A is less than C, which it would have to make "PC gamers spend less than other consumers do on this one specific product type" true

Physical doesn't come into this.
We have financial reports from multiple third parties for total sales where A ~= B ~= C

Why cant you count consoles together? It is exactly what this report did and how much money the spend compared to PC, mobile, etc.

Like we always use consoles here on GAF and PC as two different markets/plattforms

 

[LordRaptor]

What I find interesting about this report is that PS4 owners spend way less money on games than DirectX gamers do.
Its not surprising they can't get many worthwhile exclusives.

 

[Moreche]

This is my story, I loved my PS2,PS3 and PS4 but I just sold my PS4 Pro after returning my PSVR after about two weeks due to the lenses scratching and feeling motion sickness.
But I just got tired of the game updates, GTA5 turning into a slog with no single player DLC, Fallout 4 being a massive disappointment etc.
I'm now playing one of my all time favorites Rollercoaster Tycoon on my iPad pro which is far more of a utility device and expensive than my PS4 Pro ever was.
I just expected my PS4 to do and be more but it's not. As I got older I value my free time to more than pumping hours into trying to complete Witcher 3.

 

[Killroyskbg]

What I find interesting about this report is that PS4 owners spend way less money on games than DirectX gamers do.
Its not surprising they can't get many worthwhile exclusives.

That would be impossible to know since it only includes digital sales.

Or did you perhaps not understand that?

And come on be more butthurt and start a listwar while your at it.

 

[yurinka]

VR almost half of consoles...
I don't believe it,.

I think "console" is only "console software" whereas VR is counting the hardware.

You will notice "Physical" is $26 billion, which would presumably include console hardware.

They specify that these $6.6B from consoles is revenue from digital stuff: downloadable games, DLC, microtransactions, season passes, etc.
Revenue from console hardware and retail console games isn't included in the $6.6B number.

 

[Deku Tree]

I didn't realize PC gaming was so much bigger than console gaming.

Is this Superdata data reliable? Sometimes superdata in the past has posted numbers that they couldn't possibly have that must have been guesstimated using questionable methods.

Is most of that PC sales for which kinds of games? Big budget AAA PC games?

 

[wonderful103]

That would be impossible to know since it only includes digital sales.

Or did you perhaps not understand that?

And come on be more butthurt and start a listwar while your at it.

Pc and mobile are both far larger markets than dedicated consoles, from any perspective you look at them from. No qualifiers or goal post moving can Change that.

 

[Killroyskbg]

I didn't realize PC gaming was so much bigger than console gaming.

Is this Superdata data reliable? Sometimes superdata in the past has posted numbers that they couldn't possibly have that must have been guesstimated using questionable methods.

Is most of that PC sales for which kinds of games? Big budget AAA PC games?

And another one....

This is counting digital download revenue only.

On the reliability on the data I dont know but how they present it is stupid since we have so many people missunderstanding it.

 

[Abilidebob]

And another one....

This is counting digital download revenue only.

On the reliability on the data I dont know but how they present it is stupid since we have so many people missunderstanding it.

Even counting retail isn't PC gaming bigger than consoles? I remember a report from last year saying so.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Pc and mobile are both far larger markets than dedicated consoles, from any perspective you look at them from. No qualifiers or goal post moving can Change that.

This is a breakdown when retail is included.

Are PC and mobile really far larger according to that?

 

[Quonny]

digital sales

Yeah, well, no kidding.

 

[Abilidebob]

This is a breakdown when retail is included.

Are PC and mobile really far larger according to that?

While not far larger, they're still larger. Especially mobile.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Even counting retail isn't PC gaming bigger than consoles? I remember a report from last year saying so.

Not according to that piechart I just posted atleast. What was included in that report? Hardware? Do you have a link?

 

[Killroyskbg]

While not far larger, they're still larger. Especially mobile.

PC is smaller if you dont count casual webgames. And mobile is larger and will become even larger still. The growth of said markets is more interesting.

 

[Abilidebob]

PC is smaller if you dont count casual webgames. And mobile is larger and will become even larger still. The growth of said markets is more interesting.

Why wouldn't you count casual webgames? They're part of PC gaming.

 

[Riposte]

It's always been that way. That has never changed. We are really the minority.

This doesn't make any sense. The causal - core - hardcore spectrum has to do with individual dedication (i.e., hardcore means most dedicated). In virtually everything, there is never a hardcore majority. The hardcore is the minority, it's fringe, as a rule. Pointing this out is meaningless because everyone knows this. Stumpokapow is randomly changing the definition of casual, in order to be provocative I would guess, but it's as revolutionary as saying GAF has a disproportionate amount of discussion of japanese action games and grand-strategy games while the Clash of Clans community is underrepresented. No shit!

 

[More_Badass]

PC is smaller if you dont count casual webgames. And mobile is larger and will become even larger still. The growth of said markets is more interesting.

Freeware and flash is an integral part of PC gaming. It would be kind of odd not to include them

 

[Killroyskbg]

Why wouldn't you count casual webgames? They're part of PC gaming.

Because you can play them on your tablet and phone (maybe even on console browser?) as well.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Freeware and flash is an integral part of PC gaming. It would be kind of odd not to include them

But many of the big games (Facebook games) are not locked to PC.

 

[Abilidebob]

Because you can play them on your tablet and phone (maybe even on console browser?) as well.

But many of the big games (Facebook games) are not locked to PC.

When the vast, vaaast majority of playerbase are playing those games on a computer it's kinda silly to not consider those games because "some people play some of these games in other platforms".

 

[Lister]

PC is smaller if you dont count casual webgames. And mobile is larger and will become even larger still. The growth of said markets is more interesting.

That's still pretty damn impressive considering PC's don't have several large corporations spending billions in marketing, subsidizing, and supporting their hardware.

PC market place is probably considerably more profitable than the console one for most, outside of a handful of companies.

 

[Lister]

When the vast, vaaast majority of playerbase are playing those games on a computer it's kinda silly to not consider those games because "some people play some of these games in other platforms".

He needs the narrative to go a particular way. So does ViHugi and the rest. They won't be able to sleep tonight otherwise.

Won't anybody please think of the console warriors!?

Spoiler

I understand anyway. I hate mobile games and mobile gaming and they're going to ruin console AND PC gaming one day! ::tin foil hat::

 

[Killroyskbg]

When the vast, vaaast majority of playerbase are playing those games on a computer it's kinda silly to not consider those games because "some people play some of these games in other platforms".

I actually think more people play them on phones/(edit from laptops)tablets.

 

[Abilidebob]

I actually think more people play them on phones/laptops.

You'd be surprised. And laptops are PCs you know?

 

[Killroyskbg]

That's still pretty damn impressive considering PC's don't have several large corporations spending billions in marketing, subsidizing, and supporting their hardware.

PC market place is probably considerably more profitable than the console one for most, outside of a handful of companies.

According to THIS report PC gamers spend alot less on everything outside of f2p and sub MMO so why would companies even try. You know CoD, Battlefield, Doom etc. were PC exclusive not long ago right? Now they are all bigger on console because that is were the money is.

 

[Killroyskbg]

You'd be surprised. And laptops are PCs you know?

You have any data to back this up? I dont either but you sound like you would.

[edit] not that laptops are PC

 

[LordRaptor]

That would be impossible to know since it only includes digital sales.

Or did you perhaps not understand that?

No, YOU are (still) not understanding what those figures are.

They are not digital sales.

They are digital revenues of games that are sold.

Those are two completely different things.

Those numbers represent revenue made from DLC, MTX, Lootcrates, Vanity Items, Cosmetics etc etc etc of games that have an initial purchase

You apparently have some sort of motivation to prove something or other about how consoles rule and pcs drool, but you're looking at numbers that don't mean that, to invent facts that don't exist, to tell a tale that is mostly bullshit.

e:
And if you want to believe the Pc gaming market is shit because F2P, or that Pc gamers are 'cheap' because F2P, well, good news.
That chart says you make a lot of money on consoles by charging full price for a game and then nickel and diming the shit out of customers with MTX. On shitty cheapskate Pc you make more money by giving that game out free.

 

[Killroyskbg]

He needs the narrative to go a particular way. So does ViHugi and the rest. They won't be able to sleep tonight otherwise.

Won't anybody please think of the console warriors!?

Spoiler

I understand anyway. I hate mobile games and mobile gaming and they're going to ruin console AND PC gaming one day! ::tin foil hat::

You can check out my LoL account on EU west with houndred of hours of playtime or my 800h+ barb (have other classes to with many many hours) on Diablo armory with the same name as my user here.

Yes console right now is my prefered choice but for several years I was more or less PC exclusive. That was until console started to become number one priority for many of the games it seemed I play and how small the userbase became on PC. Diablo 3 on console is better (outside of hacking) then PC and like i said probably spend 1000h alone on PC.

PC is still my prefered choice for what it does best and right now that is MOBAs and rts for example and pillars of eternity is one of my GOTY's.

When I see how little revenue goes to what this report calls "premium" games and the fact that PC have alot more games to split that money between it is not hard for me to belive that is the reason developers dont take PC as serious as it once did and many games gets delayed for PC or the experience is not what I would have hoped and IMO how it was before (something 10 years ago).

 

[Killroyskbg]

No, YOU are (still) not understanding what those figures are.

They are not digital sales.

They are digital revenues of games that are sold.

Those are two completely different things.

Those numbers represent revenue made from DLC, MTX, Lootcrates, Vanity Items, Cosmetics etc etc etc of games that have an initial purchase

You apparently have some sort of motivation to prove something or other about how consoles rule and pcs drool, but you're looking at numbers that don't mean that, to invent facts that don't exist, to tell a tale that is mostly bullshit.

e:
And if you want to believe the Pc gaming market is shit because F2P, or that Pc gamers are 'cheap' because F2P, well, good news.
That chart says you make a lot of money on consoles by charging full price for a game and then nickel and diming the shit out of customers with MTX. On shitty cheapskate Pc you make more money by giving that game out free.

No they dont it is digital downloads everything including games.

Consumers increasingly download games directly to their consoles, spending $6.6 billion on digital downloads in 2016. The move improves margins across the board, and allows publishers to generate revenue through the sales of add-on content, expansion packs, and micro-transactions.

 

[Deku Tree]

No, YOU are (still) not understanding what those figures are.

They are not digital sales.

They are digital revenues of games that are sold.

Those are two completely different things.

Those numbers represent revenue made from DLC, MTX, Lootcrates, Vanity Items, Cosmetics etc etc etc of games that have an initial purchase

You apparently have some sort of motivation to prove something or other about how consoles rule and pcs drool, but you're looking at numbers that don't mean that, to invent facts that don't exist, to tell a tale that is mostly bullshit.

e:
And if you want to believe the Pc gaming market is shit because F2P, or that Pc gamers are 'cheap' because F2P, well, good news.
That chart says you make a lot of money on consoles by charging full price for a game and then nickel and diming the shit out of customers with MTX. On shitty cheapskate Pc you make more money by giving that game out free.

The thing is that I find it hard to believe that Superdata has access to accurate information on digital revenue. It sounds like this information is (probably poorly) estimated from publically available info.

 

[dracula_x]

That's still pretty damn impressive considering PC's don't have several large corporations spending billions in marketing, subsidizing, and supporting their hardware.

PC market place is probably considerably more profitable than the console one for most, outside of a handful of companies.

nVidia, Intel, Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc.

 

[LordRaptor]

No they dont it is digital downloads everything including games.

It clearly fucking isn't because Civ6 on Pc made $60million day one, so for Guild Wars 2 to beat that figure at half the cost, Guild Wars 2 must be selling more than 2 million copies a year.

Guild Wars 2 is not selling well over 2 million copies a year.

Also - as I have already told you on this very page - we already know what the total sales split between platforms from most third parties are from their own financials, and it is ~30%-30%-30% with the remaining 10% varying based on trends.

The thing is that I find it hard to believe that Superdata has access to accurate information on digital revenue. It sounds like this information is (probably poorly) estimated from publically available info.

Yes, although they probably still have access to more data sources than we do, and are extrapolating out digital revenues from estimated units sold versus stated revenues.
I mean, I would suspect given this is their business they fork out the cash for things like full NPD reports.

 

[notaskwid]

PC is a beast.

If you're a gamer and don't have (or are not saving for) a capable gaming PC I don't know what the fuck you're doing with your life anymore.

You dont need a 'capable gaming pc' to play those games that are generating the revenue that make pc a 'beast' that's for sure.

 

[CouchMaster]

Wow those Asian f2p numbers are HUGE, no wonder Steam is trying to break in big way in places like India.

 

[Killroyskbg]

It clearly fucking isn't because Civ6 on Pc made $60million day one, so for Guild Wars 2 to beat that figure at half the cost, Guild Wars 2 must be selling more than 2 million copies a year.

Guild Wars 2 is not selling well over 2 million copies a year.

Also - as I have already told you on this very page - we already know what the total sales split between platforms from most third parties are from their own financials, and it is ~30%-30%-30% with the remaining 10% varying based on trends.

What are you talking about? Guildwars and Civ?

And where do you get those 30% splits? It is nice to just say things without anything to back them up.
And if you are once again seperating Xbox and PS WHY are you doing that when we clearly are talking about the difference between consoles and PC not Xbox, Playstation and PC.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Microsoft lost its presence when it lost Japanese developer support that aint gonna happen anytime soon with ps4, to compare Microsoft losing support in japan to ps4 is asinine

Says who? The chinese gaming market is 99% mobile and PC and the number of Chinese playing on both is only growing. Much like Japan, it all comes down to the much cheaper options than console. The developer support is not going to suddenly shift to $60 games.

theres nothing wrong with 2015 but my point being that was shortly after chinese launch its Apples to oranges to my quote

Your source was also shortly after the Chinese launch. Saying the PS4 selling faster than a console over a decade ago when Chinese gaming as whole was a fraction of what it is today is comparing apples to oranges.

Let me give you some insights. The Chinese gaming market was ~$297 million in 2004 when the PS2 launched. In 2016, the Chinese gaming market is ~$24 billion. Like I said, a fraction of what it is today.

 

[LordRaptor]

What are you talking about? Guildwars and Civ?

you said:

So if you remove all the f2p and subscriber MMO's from steam and the other PC stores console have more revenue when it comes to digital downloads. When you add that PC is more or less 100% digital and console is not even close to that.

Also funny how PC biggest market spend almost the least money on those games.

Click the button next to your name that links to that post, and look at the pictures you are jizzing your wild speculations out over.
you will see:

[B]2016 Top Premium PC Titles:[/B]           $YTD: Jan - Nov
NOT SALES
Overwatch                                 ~$586m
CS:GO                                     ~$257m
Guild Wars 2                              ~$91m
Minecraft                                 ~$89m
Fallout 4                                 ~$75m

Those are ranked; those are the estimated top earners.

If Civ 6 sold 1 million copies overnight at $60m it made $60m from sales, and lets go with your assertions on this very page all Pc is digital, which would put it just below that list.
GW2 sells at $30 for the base game.
If these numbers were for digital sales, then that equates to over 3 million copies sold between Jan and Nov this year. Of a game released in 2012.
I find that literally unbelievable.

And if you are once again seperating Xbox and PS WHY are you doing that when we clearly are talking about the difference between consoles and PC not Xbox, Playstation and PC.

"We" aren't comparing sales of everything on the planet versus Pc - YOU are.
For reasons I can only speculate.

 

[Killroyskbg]

you said:


Click the button next to your name that links to that post, and look at the pictures you are jizzing your wild speculations out over.
you will see:

[B]2016 Top Premium PC Titles:[/B]           $YTD: Jan - Nov
NOT SALES
Overwatch                                 ~$586m
CS:GO                                     ~$257m
Guild Wars 2                              ~$91m
Minecraft                                 ~$89m
Fallout 4                                 ~$75m

Those are ranked; those are the estimated top earners.

If Civ 6 sold 1 million copies overnight at $60m it made $60m from sales, and lets go with your assertions on this very page all Pc is digital, which would put it just below that list.
GW2 sells at $30 for the base game.
If these numbers were for digital sales, then that equates to over 3 million copies sold between Jan and Nov this year. Of a game released in 2012.
I find that literally unbelievable.



"We" aren't comparing sales of everything on the planet versus Pc - YOU are.
For reasons I can only speculate.

Does Guildwars have MT in it and dlc you can buy for it?

If so why cant it make alot of money out of it? This report includes both digital downloads of games as well as MT and DLC. It is not only games or only dlc and MT it is everything digital.

[edit] since you like equations here is an example.

Guildwars + dlc +MT sales > CIV6 combined sales

THIS REPORT we are talking about SEPERATES PC from CONSOLE!

 

[LordRaptor]

Does Guildwars have MT in it and dlc you can buy for it?

If so why cant it make alot of money out of it? This report includes both digital downloads of games as well as MT and DLC. It is not only games or only dlc and MT it is everything digital.

Yes GW2 released a Full-price-game level expansion pack at the end of 2015, which would put its ongoing sales of just dlc into the tracking period.
In exactly the same way Destiny released a full-priced-game level expansion pack which would also put its ongoing dlc sales into the tracking period.

In fact, every single game listed in both of those charts are games that are either MTX heavy or had large full-price-game level DLC released.
And those charts are different to third party published software sales.

This is why I am telling you that you do not understand what you are looking at. And why it doesn't fucking matter where the base game was bought, or what the physical / digital split is. Because it is not showing software sales.

 

[dracula_x]

Wow those Asian f2p numbers are HUGE, no wonder Steam is trying to break in big way in places like India.

and China – http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Lisa...e_Standalone_Games_and_Dota_2_for_a_Price.php

 

[Lister]

nVidia, Intel, Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc.

I must have missed the TV commercials about how gaming on PC is the best thing ever.

Definitely didn't miss the "greatness awaits" commercials though.

You're right in that those companies should be teaming up to promote the platform as a gaming platform.

But they don't.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Yes GW2 released a Full-price-game level expansion pack at the end of 2015, which would put its ongoing sales of just dlc into the tracking period.
In exactly the same way Destiny released a full-priced-game level expansion pack which would also put its ongoing dlc sales into the tracking period.

In fact, every single game listed in both of those charts are games that are either MTX heavy or had large full-price-game level DLC released.
And those charts are different to third party published software sales.

This is why I am telling you that you do not understand what you are looking at. And why it doesn't fucking matter where the base game was bought, or what the physical / digital split is. Because it is not showing software sales.

Tell me were it says anything in this report about it not including digital software sales. Just point me to one sentence.

 

[LordRaptor]

Tell me were it says anything in this report about it not including digital software sales. Just point me to one sentence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBMwPcRbVE

 

[Killroyskbg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBMwPcRbVE

You serious? That is your reply?

I am done talking to you.

 

[Aztechnology]

You serious? That is your reply?

I am done talking to you.

Just out of curiosity what is your goal/aim to prove console gaming is somehow still the dominant force or more dominant force? Does it somehow validate or vindicate some position you hold? You seem to have an active stake in the outcome of the data.

For instance my goal is to prove that digital being so immensely profitable in comparison to retail space that it means that digital primary platforms are of greater interests of companies and therefore why is being focused on.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Just out of curiosity what is your goal/aim to prove console gaming is somehow still the dominant force or more dominant force? Does it somehow validate or vindicate some position you hold? You seem to have an active stake in the outcome of the data.

For instance my goal is to prove that digital being so immensely profitable in comparison to retail space that it means that digital primary platforms are of greater interests of companies and therefore why is being focused on.

My goal was never to prove anything I was only personaly baffled of how small revenue "premium games" (like this report calls it) makes compared to f2p/mmo and also compared to console. Like I mentioned earlier I was a PC gamer more or less exclusively but that changed when console seemed to get more support from developers. Seeing how large the difference was in revenue for said titles between PC and console it was more understandable to me why PC have to wait or get many half assed ports of games.

Personaly this does nothing for me since like i mentioned I play the games that do well on PC (lol, rts, old school RPG) and the games that does well on console (AAA) I play on console.

For some reason this was taken as an attack on PC it seems like by some user and I answerd their opinions with my own.

 

[LordRaptor]

Seeing how large the difference was in revenue for said titles between PC and console it was more understandable to me why PC have to wait or get many half assed ports of games.

Right, you didn't understand the data presented, and then used that to invent things that aren't actually happening (that PC routinely misses games, routinely gets delayed games, or routinely gets low quality ports).

I've tried to explain what the data is actually showing repeatedly, and you literally went to "well the report doesn't explicitly SAY that I'm wrong, so I must be right!" even though, you know, I've literally laid out exactly why you must be wrong with the actual numbers involved.

Believe what the fuck you want. We live in a post-truth world. Chemtrails are real. Climate change was invented by chinese manufacturing. Consoles make all the real gamer money.