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[KernelPanic]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-is-preparing-for-a-possible-war-a7476316.html

Sweden has issued advice to local authorities urging them to prepare their civil defense infrastructure and procedures "in terms of war" amid growing concerns about Russia aggression.

When the measures were first approved last year, Prime Minister Stefan Löfven described the security situation as having deteriorated, attributing this explicitly to the threat posed by Russia.

"Russian aggression and the destabilisation of Ukraine pose the most serious challenge to the European security order since the end of the Cold War," he told the Swedish parliament.

"Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea is a violation of international law. Borders must not be changed by force. Our support to Ukraine, both political and economic, will continue. A modern total defence is being developed to respond to the challenges presented by the changing security policy situation."

Some municipal authorities reportedly complained the government plan was unrealistic, saying they were not sure how it would be financed. It is unclear whether or not they will receive funding from central government to meet the recommendations stipulated in the letter.

Swedish authorities in 2015 allocated an additional 6.2 billion Kronor (£533 million) to increase defence capabilities between 2016 and 2020, reportedly due to increasing concerns over Russia’s presence in the Baltic Sea.

Earlier this week, the country’s intelligence chief said Moscow was biggest source of cyber-attacks on Sweden and "influence operations" against the Swedish state.

In recent years, Stockholm has consistently claimed Russian jets have been flying near a strategic area in the Baltic Sea.

Scary stuff is Sweden is preparing for the possibility and Russia is up to no good in the region

 

[Wag]

Trump will let Russia roll right over them.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Trump is a massive problem.

 

[Heckler456]

That's... Very close to my doorstep.

 

[astroturfing]

yeah..

i wonder, how could you beat Russia in a real, all-out war? they have countless nukes.. you can't win against them, all they have to do is threaten to level out Stockholm, Helsinki, Tallinn and a few other European cities and then you'd either have to be crazy and suicidal enough to call their bluff, or just give up and let them win the war.

 

[darkwing]

Trump don't care, also Duterte

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

yeah..

i wonder, how could you beat Russia in a real, all-out war? they have countless nukes.. you can't win against them, all they have to do is threaten to level out Stockholm, Helsinki, Tallinn and a few other European cities and then you'd either have to be crazy and suicidal enough to call their bluff, or just give up and let them win the war.

Armed insurgency if they invade. Also consider that both the French and British can individually destroy Russia with nuclear retaliation if they chose to. An all out invasion is a major risk. Out right war is unlikely.

 

[Geist-]

yeah..

i wonder, how could you beat Russia in a real, all-out war? they have countless nukes.. you can't win against them, all they have to do is threaten to level out Stockholm, Helsinki, Tallinn and a few other European cities and then you'd either have to be crazy and suicidal enough to call their bluff, or just give up and let them win the war.

It's like you've never heard of MAD before. Sweden has enough nuke capable allies that any attack against them will be retaliated against with equal force.

Any war that comes(which I find unlikely even now) will probably have some kind of agreement that nukes will not be used.

 

[Frozenprince]

Invading a NATO state means world war.

If this pops off and they get aggressive in the Balkans, the only thing we can do is pray it only leads to conventional warfare and nobody pushes the big red button.

Luckily, I believe that even Russia is not so stupid as to risk war with NATO.

Because there is no victory there.

 

[Kase]

Invading a NATO state means world war.

If this pops off and they get aggressive in the Balkans, the only thing we can do is pray it only leads to conventional warfare and nobody pushes the big red button.

Luckily, I believe that even Russia is not so stupid as to risk war with NATO.

Because there is no victory there.

Sweden isn't part of NATO

 

[Frozenprince]

Sweden isn't part of NATO

Invading Sweden means infringing on a sovereign European nation which means creating a Baltic corridor which means ipso facto, NATO is involved.

If they push into Sweden they will kick off European aggression in return which means NATO is involved. They are, effectively, a de facto NATO state.

 

[capitalCORN]

It's like China's South Sea shit. They'll keep people on their toes, while undermining the mainland until shit returns profits.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Armed insurgency if they invade. Also consider that both the French and British can individually destroy Russia with nuclear retaliation if they chose to. An all out invasion is a major risk. Out right war is unlikely.

Yeah

If Sweden gets nuked, it's going to affect Britain/France. So it's MAD for them.

 

[Netherscourge]

Sweden isn't part of NATO

Yea, but Sweden did win a seat on the UN Security council this year.

 

[The Technomancer]

I just...don't understand what Russia hopes to gain here

Like what is the motivation other than dick waving? Seizing economic hubs to boost Russia's GDP? Does Sweden have oil? What do they want?

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Welcome back to the nation building portion of our current civilization.

 

[astroturfing]

It's like you've never heard of MAD before. Sweden has enough nuke capable allies that any attack against them will be retaliated against with equal force.

Any war that comes(which I find unlikely even now) will probably have some kind of agreement that nukes will not be used.

yes i learned about MAD in school 20 years ago. i don't think it necessarily applies anymore, the world is much crazier now, even world leaders are becoming totally unpredictable (not to mention terror groups who wouldn't even begin to give a single fuck about MAD if they had access to a nuke).

while i don't seriously believe Putin would drop nukes on several European cities, i think he could threaten to do it, if Russia was in a really bad shape and was fighting several unwinnable conventional wars at the same time. if they were truly backed into a corner, they might start showing clear signs that their nuke arsenal isn't just for show..

 

[Phantast2k]

Earlier this week, the country’s intelligence chief said Moscow was biggest source of cyber-attacks on Sweden and "influence operations" against the Swedish state.

But I thought neutral countries were fine and Russia only reacted to NATO encroachment?
Please explain this to me, random Russia appologist.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I mean, come January 20, tanks are free to start rolling. Not saying they will, but you have to doubt that Trump would honor US commitments, particularly with his hero involved.

 

[Laevateinn]

If nukes are out of the question, I think Sweden could put up a surprising challenge. Remember, Russia once invaded Finland which, even though they "won", was a bit embarrassing for them (and inspired much of Valkyria Chronicles). Obviously this is a different time but Sweden would see a lot better support than Finland did back in the day.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Russia could go to war against almost any European country and people elsewhere in Europe would cheer. Europe's attempt at eliminating nationalism undermines their ability to raise popular support against a nationalistic enemy, especially since Europeans in general are in fact still nationalists and against centrally-planned denationalization.

 

[Phased]

This is almost certainly just posturing to send a message to Russia, which is why it's being publicly announced. If there was any real concern of a war or conflict you'd see massive troop redeployment in Europe and U.S warships would go there en mass.

Personally I don't think Russia could afford a major war. They're barely holding on economically as it is. When Russia took Crimea we didn't retaliate with force, we did it with sanctions which continues to hurt their economy fairly badly.

 

[Geist-]

yes i learned about MAD in school 20 years ago. i don't think it necessarily applies anymore, the world is much crazier now, even world leaders are becoming totally unpredictable (not to mention terror groups who wouldn't even begin to give a single fuck about MAD if they had access to a nuke).

while i don't seriously believe Putin would drop nukes on several European cities, i think he could threaten to do it, if Russia was in a really bad shape and was fighting several unwinnable conventional wars at the same time. if they were truly backed into a corner, they might start showing clear signs that their nuke arsenal isn't just for show..

It's more likely that whoever got them into several unwinnable conventional wars and started making nuclear threats would find themselves replaced. I don't think you realize how much nuclear Armageddon motivates people for sudden governmental change and as much as Putin would like it to be, his position is nowhere near as secure as Stalin's was.

 

[superdeluxe]

Invading a NATO state means world war.

If this pops off and they get aggressive in the Balkans, the only thing we can do is pray it only leads to conventional warfare and nobody pushes the big red button.

Luckily, I believe that even Russia is not so stupid as to risk war with NATO.

Because there is no victory there.

Sweden is not in NATO

Edit: oh you meant balkins (baltics?)

 

[Machina]

I just...don't understand what Russia hopes to gain here

Like what is the motivation other than dick waving? Seizing economic hubs to boost Russia's GDP? Does Sweden have oil? What do they want?

War. War is literally what they want. I doubt they could give 2 shits about Sweden. They want their Soviet territories back

 

[SolarPowered]

The west is a bunch of fuckbois. The moment Russia decides to invade Sweden is the moment China raises hell in the South China since the USA won't be able to amass the necessary forces on two fronts so large and important. This is the future Repulicans, Electors and Putin want and we're gonna barrel right into it.

 

[VendettaRed07]

I just...don't understand what Russia hopes to gain here

Like what is the motivation other than dick waving? Seizing economic hubs to boost Russia's GDP? Does Sweden have oil? What do they want?

 

[shintoki]

I just...don't understand what Russia hopes to gain here

Like what is the motivation other than dick waving? Seizing economic hubs to boost Russia's GDP? Does Sweden have oil? What do they want?

Sweden has no resources, but simply keeping their own state in a "War" mode is going to bolster the economy, and avoid the fact they basically have no real industry. Their another country that's biggest export is oil and oil was getting closer to being on it's way out. This will delay it.

The one thing Reagan actually had right was that, they can't compete at all on the economical field.

 

[Dierce]

The west is a bunch of fuckbois. The moment Russia decides to invade Sweden is the moment China raises hell in the South China since the USA won't be able to amass the necessary forces on two fronts so large and important. This is the future Repulicans, Electors and Putin want and we're gonna barrel right into it.

It will happen eventually. It is only a matter of time and even before this election, since 2013 it was evident that Putin would be the destabilizing factor that led to a war between the West and the East.

Sadly, if it happens sooner I fear the U.S will sit it out and let Russia do as it pleases because of orange turd.

 

[M52B28]

yeah..

i wonder, how could you beat Russia in a real, all-out war? they have countless nukes.. you can't win against them, all they have to do is threaten to level out Stockholm, Helsinki, Tallinn and a few other European cities and then you'd either have to be crazy and suicidal enough to call their bluff, or just give up and let them win the war.

Do you understand how unlikely this scenario is?

This isn't a game of Civilization that develops over night.

 

[pigeon]

yeah..

i wonder, how could you beat Russia in a real, all-out war? they have countless nukes.. you can't win against them, all they have to do is threaten to level out Stockholm, Helsinki, Tallinn and a few other European cities and then you'd either have to be crazy and suicidal enough to call their bluff, or just give up and let them win the war.

I mean, by the same token, we can just threaten to drop a nuke on Moscow. That's how mutually assured destruction works.

The west is a bunch of fuckbois. The moment Russia decides to invade Sweden is the moment China raises hell in the South China since the USA won't be able to amass the necessary forces on two fronts so large and important. This is the future Repulicans, Electors and Putin want and we're gonna barrel right into it.

I mean, I'm pretty sure we can fight on two fronts. That is literally the operating goal for the US military.

I am not sure I agree with this analysis, though, unless China really wants nuclear war.

 

[superdeluxe]

If I was Sweden and Finland I would have started NATO discussions after Trump won.

 

[El_Mau]

The west is a bunch of fuckbois. The moment Russia decides to invade Sweden is the moment China raises hell in the South China since the USA won't be able to amass the necessary forces on two fronts so large and important. This is the future Repulicans, Electors and Putin want and we're gonna barrel right into it.

I think the U.S. is capable enough to fight in two fronts, the size/budget of their military is fucking insane.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

If I was Sweden and Finland I would have started NATO discussions after Trump won.

What's the point after Trump won, though.

 

[SolarPowered]

It will happen eventually. It is only a matter of time and even before this election, since 2013 it was evident that Putin would be the destabilizing factor that led to a war between the West and the East.

Sadly, if it happens sooner I fear the U.S will sit it out and let Russia do as it pleases because of orange turd.

I don't want to believe things will go that far. At most I expect the Baltic/NATO states in Eastern Europe to be abandoned which sucks plenty enough as it is.

I think the U.S. is capable enough to fight in two fronts, the size/budget of their military is fucking insane.

Good luck getting the American people behind this when the Orange Comrade-in-Chief is in charge. This election was already a legitimate farce to tens of millions and it'll be a sick joke to hundreds of millions when we're told by him that we have to fight a war against an aggressor that currently has puppet strings on Trump. It'll make the war weariness towards Syria look QUAINT.

 

[God Dayumm]

I think the U.S. is capable enough to fight in two fronts, the size/budget of their military is fucking insane.

Not with my taxes. Let those white European nations use their privilege to defend themselves

 

[KernelPanic]

http://www.thelocal.se/20161212/russia-biggest-source-of-cyberattacks-on-sweden-intelligence-head

More on Russia's cyber attacks against Sweden.

Must is the branch of the Swedish Armed Forces that is the main foreign intelligence agency in the country. Its head, Major General Gunnar Karlson, spoke openly about Russian attempts to influence Sweden during an interview with SVT’s Agenda show on Sunday evening

.

“It is a serious threat because in different ways they can push themselves in to the very foundations of a democracy and and influence democratic decision-making,” Karlson noted.

The Must head explained that his agency often sees influence operations (operations focusing on affecting the behaviours of groups or populations) targeted against Sweden, citing the example of a falsified letter purporting to have been written by Swedish Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist.

“That was easy to expose but clearly targeted against Sweden. It’s often not the individual influence operations that do the worst damage, but it risks leading to a general mistress ust of information.”

Last year a report by Sweden’s Security Service Säpo labelled Russian espionage against the country as “extensive”.

Hopefully less and less people doubt at what Russia is up to (on the cyber warfare front at the very least).

 

[The Technomancer]

The west is a bunch of fuckbois. The moment Russia decides to invade Sweden is the moment China raises hell in the South China since the USA won't be able to amass the necessary forces on two fronts so large and important. This is the future Repulicans, Electors and Putin want and we're gonna barrel right into it.

I think we actually can. Those statistics about how the US military is like an order of magnitude larger than any other don't mean nothing

 

[StickSoldier]

War. War is literally what they want. I doubt they could give 2 shits about Sweden. They want their Soviet territories back

I wonder how Trump being the next president is going to help Putin out in his conquest... Sheesh, it's a bit concerning.

 

[M52B28]

I mean, I'm pretty sure we can fight on two fronts. That is literally the operating goal for the US military.

I think the U.S. is capable enough to fight in two fronts, the size/budget of their military is fucking insane.

Combined with the purpose and budget the U.S military has, it is more than capable of operating on multiple fronts.

People underestimate the power and vast ability of the U.S military.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Putin won't let Trump interfere in Europe. Sure, Trump could fight with China, but who would then make Trump's ties.

No, we'll be over here building a wall.

 

[Opto]

I wonder how Trump being the next president is going to help Putin out in his conquest... Sheesh, it's a bit concerning.

Putin's planning on Trump and Tiller to do diddly squat with further aggressions into Europe. Our foreign policy will be whatever propaganda the Russians give Trump, while Tiller makes billions for Exxon

 

[superdeluxe]

What's the point after Trump won, though.

NATO article 5 comes into play, i think its more important with trump than it would be if it was Clinton

 

[Randolph Freelander]

NATO article 5 comes into play, i think its more important with trump than it would be if it was Clinton

Trump only reads articles with his name in them.

 

[superdeluxe]

I wonder how Trump being the next president is going to help Putin out in his conquest... Sheesh, it's a bit concerning.

Trump will turn a blind eye to Putin in Europe. You think he is going to continue the Ukraine sanctions? I mean they removed Ukraine from the platform

 

[superdeluxe]

Didn't Russia hackers take down Sweden's ATC?

 

[KernelPanic]

Trump will turn a blind eye to Putin in Europe. You think he is going to continue the Ukraine sanctions? I mean they removed Ukraine from the platform

Trump's advisors are already talking to Russian business and investors like the sanctions will be lifted soon and you know Rex will.

 

[Mr Swine]

Ugh, this makes me so scared living in Sweden, I really hope that war or an invasion never happens in my lifetime

 

[SmartBase]

Ugh, this makes me so scared living in Sweden, I really hope that war or an invasion never happens in my lifetime

Considering the meat shield to your east (one that actually shares a large border with Putinland) and an-eager-to-please-NATO neighbour to your west I'd say this sentiment is just a bit ridiculous.

 

[pigeon]

Considering the meat shield to your east (one that actually shares a large border with Putinland) and an-eager-to-please-NATO neighbour to your west I'd say this sentiment is just a bit ridiculous.

"Swedish authorities are telling people to prepare for war!"
"As a Swede, that makes me very worried about the possibility of war!"
"That's ridiculous, why would you be worried about war? Don't be ridiculous."