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[partyphone]

how are the SXSW organizers so out of touch? is it the Texas heat?

 

[Primus]

Festival South By Southwest has reinstated the two cancelled gaming panels, and announced an all-day seminar. One panel was about harassment; the other, GamerGate-leaning panel focused on ethics and politics. Both return, though SXSW will work with them to “to develop the most productive focus for their appearances.”

Gods, we're going to end up with some horrible "both sides!" abomination of an event, aren't we?

A-yup. Sigh.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Also, it seems that the return of the actual anti-harassment panel is not confirmed. From Randi Harper's Twitter:

At this time, my panel, Level Up: Overcoming Harassment in Games, is not confirmed to be a part of the Online Harassment Summit at SXSW.

While we support GamerGate being a part of SXSW Gaming, having them as part of the online harassment summit is a safety concern.

The movement they represent has forced many of us to go into hiding. Giving them a chance to say "we don't harass women" is bullshit.

What SXSW did was equivalent to allowing a perpetrator of domestic violence to stand on a stage next to the woman he abused.

This shows a gross incompetence. They do not understand what they are doing, and I am not confident that they have our safety as a priority.

We wanted to have a larger conversation about online harassment, but SXSW wants to make it very, very small.

I don't really know what we should do. I want to participate. I want to give our talk. But I'm not willing to sacrifice my own safety.

 

[PtM]

This is a train wreck.

 

[neshcom]

Yeah, I don't know how sold I am on GG making fools out of themselves on a panel. Their whole game is deceit and misdirection, so even in the face of direct questions about their harassment tactics, they have the platform and know-how to deflect like they already do. Lack of central leadership, anonymous members, "bad actors," and "false flags" will get them through most everything.

And even if they get up there and confess to all the awful acts GG has been behind, THEY'LL just be disowned from the mass as double agents or some such nonsense.

 

[Lime]

Gamergate's discourse is militant and obfuscatory. It's like arguing with Ann Coulter or Donald Trump or Bill O'Reilly - you're not getting anywhere and a whole bunch of illogical nonsense is being thrown into the discussion that you have to address.

Basically this encapsulates what it means to talk to Gamergate:

 

[ElNarez]

how are the SXSW organizers so out of touch? is it the Texas heat?

Privilege. It blinds you to loads of stuff.

 

[Cybit]

Yeah, I don't know how sold I am on GG making fools out of themselves on a panel. Their whole game is deceit and misdirection, so even in the face of direct questions about their harassment tactics, they have the platform and know-how to deflect like they already do. Lack of central leadership, anonymous members, "bad actors," and "false flags" will get them through most everything.

And even if they get up there and confess to all the awful acts GG has been behind, THEY'LL just be disowned from the mass as double agents or some such nonsense.

Considering the list of victims of this particular tactic include folks far smarter and more devious (Big Tobacco, the Catholic Church, anti-abortion foes, anti-gay marriages foes, George Wallace, etc, ) - I don't think GG is somehow magically smarter or more deceitful than them. If you want to actually END this bullshit - you have to expose it to the light, not just cover it up in a little corner of the world. Especially in the US - censoring arguments generally tends to create a Streisand effect more often than not.

That stuff you bring up, anonymous members, etc etc - that is rationalization for those who are already looking for reasons to agree with them. Those minds ain't gonna get changed anyway. We know from studies that it's a tiny tiny portion of the population that uses Twitter as a megaphone to seem far bigger. But the majority of people who know nothing about this and aren't inclined to support it - that isn't going to fly.

 

[PtM]

This is so true, it's heart-breaking.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

The summit is a good idea. But I do not understand why SXSW insists on Gamergate's attending this anti-harassment summit being helpful or necessary for "meaningful dialogue in an atmosphere of civility and respect", or conducive to providing a safe space.

SavePoint was about different topics entirely, the panel had nothing to do with online harassment, aside from being setup by a group perpetrating it. Which does not make its input relevant. Gamergate is only relevant to online harassment as a point of examination, to better help inform solutions to it. Hearing from Gamergate on this topic is at best completely worthless, a bad joke.

The idea that seems to inform SXSW's decisions, that the issue of harassment is one where we need to give equal time to both sides, harassers and targets, that they should meet, have a dialog and meet in the middle, is just fundamentally, blatantly misguided and stupid. Or at least it should be. I have no idea why it isn't to the people managing SXSW. It's bizarre. What are they thinking?

 

[neshcom]

Considering the list of victims of this particular tactic include folks far smarter and more devious (Big Tobacco, the Catholic Church, anti-abortion foes, anti-gay marriages foes, George Wallace, etc, ) - I don't think GG is somehow magically smarter or more deceitful than them. If you want to actually END this bullshit - you have to expose it to the light, not just cover it up in a little corner of the world. Especially in the US - censoring arguments generally tends to create a Streisand effect more often than not.

That stuff you bring up, anonymous members, etc etc - that is rationalization for those who are already looking for reasons to agree with them. Those minds ain't gonna get changed anyway. We know from studies that it's a tiny tiny portion of the population that uses Twitter as a megaphone to seem far bigger. But the majority of people who know nothing about this and aren't inclined to support it - that isn't going to fly.

I agree, but I also don't expect a panel where they can give all the normal talking points to provide enough context to people who already only know about the GG name. It would take a concentrated effort to bring questions to their panel--assuming they even take questions--otherwise they'll be free to shape the entire show.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

These panels were talking about separate topics. So I have no idea why SXSW wants to do here but okay. This whole thing has been a train wreck anyway.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Festival South By Southwest has reinstated the two cancelled gaming panels, and announced an all-day seminar. One panel was about harassment; the other, GamerGate-leaning panel focused on ethics and politics. Both return, though SXSW will work with them to “to develop the most productive focus for their appearances.”

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I actually think this might end up working out better for Randi and co - giving the GG folks a giant public (and a much bigger and different group of observers) forum to stick their foot in their mouths and look completely incompetent might actually be the thing that actually ends this entire insanity. I'm not worried about GG "convincing anyone" at this point - their argument is bullshit and insane and will crumble at actual public scrutiny.

Remember that Big Tobacco ended up doing the most damage to themselves when they were dragged in front of Congress and had to try to defend themselves in public, and everyone got to see in glorious spectacle how completely messed up it was.

They've been given panels and booths in the past. I don't know if they were small events but it hasn't stopped them in the slightest. They rented out entire parks.

 

[ElNarez]

Predictably, someone in a position in power dropping the ball emboldened GG to start harassing again.

Randi Lee Harper
‏@randileeharper
One of the panelists from the GamerGate panel is already starting to get her followers to dog-pile me.

This, by the way, is why "letting them make fools out of themselves" is not a good option. Giving even the illusion that it's a debate enables GG to do what it does. It's not a debate, it's not even an opinion, GG is harassment, end of story.

 

[diablos991]

I'm glad to see SXSW come along and give both sides their panels back.

Nothing good comes from stifling either side's opinions.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Nothing good comes from stifling either side's opinions.

Do you know what either sides' panels are about?

 

[partyphone]

I'm glad to see SXSW come along and give both sides their panels back.

Nothing good comes from stifling either side's opinions.

sides? you mean the harassers and those they harass?

 

[Palette Swap]

I'm glad to see SXSW come along and give both sides their panels back.

They're including gamergate in an anti-harassment summit that was supposed to be a lot broader than this single movement so I don't really see what part is a positive in this spiraling debacle.

Nothing good comes from stifling either side's opinions.

Yeah. Let's have debates between the Klan and black people, we'll find a reasonable middle ground.

 

[diablos991]

Do you know what either sides' panels are about?

sides? you mean the harassers and those they harass?

They're including gamergate in an anti-harassment summit that was supposed to be a lot broader than this single movement so I don't really see what part is a positive in this spiraling debacle.


Yeah. Let's have debates between the Klan and black people, we'll find a reasonable middle ground.

Sheesh, relax a bit.
I enjoy hearing talking points on both sides. I don't care much for the harassment coming from both sides.

The discussion is what I like. I find myself more in the middle of all this because I truly believe games journalism and many other facets of journalism needs to mature and utilize disclosures more often.

I also feel like video games could use a bit of cultural diversity in regards to both the characters, actions, and environments. Video games can be a medium to present and discuss topics which are more difficult to present in other forms of media.

Comparing either side to the Klan is straight up ridiculous. There are some bad people in both sides that like to distract from what I feel are valuable and interesting topics coming out of this cultural clash.

 

[PtM]

Sheesh, relax a bit.
I enjoy hearing talking points on both sides. I don't care much for the harassment coming from both sides.

The discussion is what I like. I find myself more in the middle of all this because I truly believe games journalism and many other facets of journalism needs to mature and utilize disclosures more often.

I also feel like video games could use a bit of cultural diversity in regards to both the characters, actions, and environments. Video games could also be a medium to present and discuss topics which are more difficult to present in other forms of media.

Comparing either side to the Klan is straight up ridiculous. There are some bad people in both sides that like to distract from what I feel are valuable and interesting topics coming out of this cultural clash.

GG is a hate group.
http://jezebel.com/gamergate-trolls-arent-ethics-crusaders-theyre-a-hate-1644984010

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Sheesh, relax a bit.
I enjoy hearing talking points on both sides. I don't care much for the harassment coming from both sides.

The discussion is what I like. I find myself more in the middle of all this

Dude. Seriously? At this point you're either deliberately stirring shit up, purposefully ignoring the situation or just trolling.

Both sides? What are "both sides" in this discussion even.

 

[backlot]

Sheesh, relax a bit.
I enjoy hearing talking points on both sides. I don't care much for the harassment coming from both sides.

The discussion is what I like. I find myself more in the middle of all this because I truly believe games journalism and many other facets of journalism needs to mature and utilize disclosures more often.

I also feel like video games could use a bit of cultural diversity in regards to both the characters, actions, and environments. Video games can be a medium to present and discuss topics which are more difficult to present in other forms of media.

Comparing either side to the Klan is straight up ridiculous. There are some bad people in both sides that like to distract from what I feel are valuable and interesting topics coming out of this cultural clash.

The discussion at hand here isn't about diversity in video games or journalistic ethics. This is about harassment. There's no debate here. No two sides.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Sheesh, relax a bit.
I enjoy hearing talking points on both sides. I don't care much for the harassment coming from both sides.

Only "one side" has engaged in harrasment, doxing and swatting. Also, the talking points:

- Here's a bunch of ways you can proof your online communities and games against harrasers.

Vs

- ... fuck If I know. If this is a two way thing, does this mean the Open Gaming Society is against those ways for some reason?

The discussion is what I like. I find myself more in the middle of all this because I truly believe games journalism and many other facets of journalism needs to mature and utilize disclosures more often.

I also feel like video games could use a bit of cultural diversity in regards to both the characters, actions, and environments. Video games can be a medium to present and discuss topics which are more difficult to present in other forms of media.

You're about to be disappointed because neither of those panels is about that.

Comparing either side to the Klan is straight up ridiculous. There are some bad people in both sides that like to distract from what I feel are valuable and interesting topics coming out of this cultural clash.

You cannot compare a hate group known for throwing around death, bomb and shooting threats to media critics.

 

[partyphone]

lol it's been over a year of gamergate how can you even

 

[JoseLopez]

I know it's just protocol but I wish the conference just ignored these assholes so they don't set a precedence of fear

 

[inky]

Comparing either side to the Klan is straight up ridiculous. There are some bad people in both sides that like to distract from what I feel are valuable and interesting topics coming out of this cultural clash.

No it's not ridiculous. GG is a hate group filled exclusively with harassers. The other side is people being harassed and speaking up about it. It's pretty clear cut actually.

 

[Corronchilejano]

lol it's been over a year of gamergate how can you even

Because if you never know, you cannot be guilty of being wrong.

 

[partyphone]

Because if you never know, you cannot be guilty of being wrong.

knowing enough about this event to throw around both sides bullshit yet not know about gamergate is a bit suspicious. at the very least it's super lazy given the course of this thread.

 

[diablos991]

I can see my views aren't welcome in this thread.
Sorry for getting stuff stirred up. I'll just leave this one alone and back away slowly.

 

[Persona7]

wtf is sxsw doing

 

[Darth Ghandi]

Sheesh, relax a bit.
I enjoy hearing talking points on both sides. I don't care much for the harassment coming from both sides.

The discussion is what I like. I find myself more in the middle of all this because I truly believe games journalism and many other facets of journalism needs to mature and utilize disclosures more often.

I also feel like video games could use a bit of cultural diversity in regards to both the characters, actions, and environments. Video games can be a medium to present and discuss topics which are more difficult to present in other forms of media.

Comparing either side to the Klan is straight up ridiculous. There are some bad people in both sides that like to distract from what I feel are valuable and interesting topics coming out of this cultural clash.

notsureifseriousjpg

 

[Corronchilejano]

knowing enough about this event to throw around both sides bullshit yet not know about gamergate is a bit suspicious. at the very least it's super lazy given the course of this thread.

I'm going to go on a limb here and believe that maybe the gg rethoric reaches most people before they even see what all the fuzz is about. Since most of this hate masquerades around the idea that there's widespread corruption going on in gaming journalism, it's easy to bite.

 

[partyphone]

I can see my views aren't welcome in this thread.
Sorry for getting stuff stirred up. I'll just leave this one alone and back away slowly.

your views are ignorant and harmful and you should educate yourself about the situation. I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh but we're so tired of this.

 

[ElNarez]

This should surprise no one :

SXSW Bungles Announcement of ‘Online Harassment Summit,’ and Panelists Are Pulling Out

This morning, SXSW Interactive Director Hugh Forrest released a statement apologizing for canceling two controversial panels earlier this week, and announcing a March 12 “Online Harassment Summit” that would include members of the canceled sessions.

SXSW’s statement said speakers from the two panels were set to be a part of the Summit, including the Gamergate-affiliated panel “SavePoint: A Discussion on the Gaming Community.” This came as a surprise to the organizers of “Level Up: Overcoming Harassment in Games,” who say they were not notified beforehand that the “SavePoint” panelists who supported the hateful Gamergate mob (Mercedes Carrera and Nick Robalik) would be at the Summit.

This is why the “Level Up” panelists are now pulling out of the Summit, saying they’ve lost faith in the ability of SXSW to put together an event that would properly accommodate their safety concerns (Update: “Level Up” panelist Randi Harper says she’s “currently working with SXSW towards a resolution for this situation”). Re/code has reached out to scheduled Summit attendees for comment, and we’ll update this story as we hear back from more people.

full article has more, and also : holy fuck SXSW can't do anything right

 

[VibratingDonkey]

It really is an astounding mess. SXSW appears to have fundamental, deep-rooted issues understanding how to deal with harassment and safety.

Hopefully the five months or so before the event takes place, is enough time for them to salvage the situation and get their shit together.

 

[neshcom]

Crisis management means patience, SXSW. They clearly rushed the announcement without confirming everything just to get back in good graces. Now look at what it got them.