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[Reebot]

Torn here. Bioshock 1 was amazing, but it works best as a one-off experience.

Bioshock 2 was great but nothing special like the original, and Infinite was a mess.

This is one of those titles that shouldn't be a franchise but unfortunately will be due to market realities. I'm sure more good games could come from the series, but I think its likely we'll be stuck with retreads.

 

[diamount]

Yeah. To be honest, this isn't a case like Kojima or the guy behind Earthbound where I feel like someone wouldn't be able to get the same/similar kind of style as the previous creator.

When a game like Revengeance exists, you're wrong on Kojima too.

 

[Toa TAK]

Spoiler

Bioshock 2 was the best Bioshock

Yes, or at least, it's my favorite. But it's like trying to chose one out of three children. I think each of the BioShock games are pretty unique in what they do and are equally great because of it.

Plus, Minerva's Den>>>>Burial At Sea

Only people who didn't play BioShock 1 at release say these messy comments. There's a reason 2 is the least successful in every measurement.

Not in the gunplay department. 2 did it better than the first and Infinite.

 

[DOWN]

Bioshock 2 is a far better game than Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock Infinite has some of the worst designed combat in any FPS I've ever played. The story is also a complete fucking mess, and the world design comes across more as a giant theme park than a real lived-in place.

Too bad BioShock 2 is the only one that had absolutely nothing to say.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

Have ken do the story, I found infinite story to be best of lastgen along with bs1 of course.

 

[Ghostmaster]

Levine didn't even make the first System Shock (the game that set up the story beats that Levine loves retelling). And I maintain that Dishonored was a better successor to that style of game than any of the Bioshocks were.

Levine is no slouch but I don't put him on the level of a Doug Church. Certainly not in terms of gameplay concepts.

But the world and style of Dishonored are just...so ...boring. It's a shame because I really like the gameplay.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Have ken do the story, I found infinite story to be best of lastgen along with bs1 of course.

I agree.

Infinite's problem was not its story. It was its single-minded gameplay, which was a departure from the dynamic options of earlier games.

 

[Toxi]

You people are crazy, yes the combat in Infinite was generic, but the combat in Bioshock 1 was downright bad.

The combat in Infinite is worse.

Every aspect of design doesn't work as a whole. The upgrade system conflicts with the two gun limit, the predominantly close-to-mid-range guns and powers don't work with the large level design, the high-health enemies and open areas don't work with the shield system, the melee finishing move has basically no reason to exist besides making combat longer... It's a goddamn mess.

Too bad BioShock 2 is the only one that had absolutely nothing to say.

Oh please tell me what Infinite had to say

Besides worthless gablygook like "There's always another lighthouse".

I liked the world-building of the original Bioshock. Infinite's world-building was unconvincing. I liked the thematic consistency of the original Bioshock. Infinite unsuccessfully juggled a bunch of different themes (Classism, patriotism, the philosophical impact of many worlds) without ever doing one justice.

Infinite was pretty trash.

 

[BigTnaples]

Bioshock 1-Infinite are some of the best experiences ever to hit our medium.

However..

But, no Lavine...

This.

 

[fork_bomb]

But the world and style of Dishonored are just...so ...boring. It's a shame because I really like the gameplay.

I really liked the environments in Dishonored, they reminded me of HL2. That's probably because Viktor Antonov did the art assets for both.

 

[Ghostmaster]

I really liked the environments in Dishonored, it reminded me of HL2. That's probably because Viktor Antonov did the art assets for both.

It's weird I like the style of HL2. I guess the kind of cell shading that's going on in Dishonored just doesn't work for me.

The combat in Infinite is worse.

Every aspect of design doesn't work as a whole. The upgrade system conflicts with the two gun limit, the predominantly close-to-mid-range guns and powers don't work with the large level design, the high-health enemies and open areas don't work with the shield system, the melee finishing move has basically no reason to exist besides making combat longer... It's a goddamn mess.

But at least the guns felt like guns, the thompson machine gun in Bioshock 1 I just can't... can't, unless you're playing with a wrench I don't see how the gameplay in 1 can be better than Infinite

 

[DarkJedi24]

Better to have his hands out of the pudding honestly. Infinite was an embarrassing disaster.

This post is an embarrassing disaster.

Glad to see the series continuing, even if Ken is no longer involved.

 

[Remachinate]

But the world and style of Dishonored are just...so ...boring. It's a shame because I really like the gameplay.

Different tastes and all that, but it's a surprising criticism given how distinct both the game's art style and steampunk whaler setting are amongst AAA titles.

Infinite's problem was not its story. It was its single-minded gameplay, which was a departure from the dynamic options of earlier games.

I disagree that Infinite's story was not problematic, but I think the most important reason for the game's polarized reception had to with its -Shock legacy, and how it departed from the nonlinear, resource-scarce design that made the brand so beloved by a core segment of players. I think those players had a right to feel betrayed by the licenses Levine took with the brand.

 

[stuminus3]

Infinite sold 11 million? Wow.

I think a new Bioshock without Irrational / Ken Lavine has a chance in the right hands. I mean much of what they did with Bioshock was built on the back the foundation laid by Looking Glass in the 90s.

 

[Toxi]

But at least the guns felt like guns, the thompson machine gun in Bioshock 1 I just can't... can't, unless you're playing with a wrench I don't see how the gameplay in 1 can be better than Infinite

No, they still felt weak as shit, not helped by the completely unresponsive bullet sponge enemies (which have been a problem in Bioshock since the first game, but were most obnoxious in Infinite).

Infinite's gameplay is a disaster.

 

[ClivePwned]

25 million for three games but haven't 2k either heavily gutted or closed down any studio that did work on Bioshock? How many of those were from PS+?

I would play a remastered trilogy on X1 or PS4.

 

[SoraanTribal]

Never knew Infinite was so hated by some of GAF. It was my favorite one in the series. loved the characters, world, and the story (Fuck Burial at Sea story though). Gameplay was serviceable - enjoyed the sky hooks and rails. I always thought the first Bioshock was a bit overrated. The last 25% fell off the deep end in both gameplay and story.

 

[DOWN]

Infinite was pretty trash.

Your comments are pretty trash tbh

If Infinite is trash I wanna know what words describe the hundreds of games a year that are far less praised

 

[Nirolak]

I'm pretty sure Hangar 13 is still doing this even if the teaser is XCOM. They seem the most plausible option.

 

[tuxfool]

Different tastes and all that, but it's a surprising criticism given how distinct both the game's art style and steampunk whaler setting are amongst AAA titles.

The style is great, The problem was that the world was just too underdeveloped and a bit ill defined.

 

[Ghostmaster]

No, they still felt weak as shit, not helped by the completely unresponsive bullet sponge enemies (which have been a problem in Bioshock since the first game, but were most obnoxious in Infinite).

Infinite's gameplay is a disaster.

I never really had that many issues with Infinite's combat apart from the Big daddies equivalents( forgot their name) being lame as hell.

1 was far worse for me, the guns weren't just weak, they were kind of flimsy and the recoil was botched.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

Also forgot to mention, burial at sea is the greatest dlc ever. fuck the haters

And if u are playing bs games for their gameplay u are doing it wrong, they all suck so just put it on easy and enjoy the story

 

[Meaty]

I liked bioshock 2 more than infinite.

Levine is incredibly talented, but bioshock is more than him and theres other talented people arround with fresh ideas.

I love how george lucas isnt making the new star wars movie, so I think we should give 2k a chance. Honestly, I think they are one of the better publishers arround and I expect great things

 

[CHC]

I really hope they go back to the immersive sim roots of System Shock for the next one. It should be a game that people compare side by side with Dishonored 2 and Deus Ex Humanity Divided rather than the "CoD except watered down and with magic powers" feel that Bioshock Infinite had.

Couldn't agree more, but I'm not expecting it. What I do expect is a massive dose of illusory choice and faux-meaningful, indulgent writing.

"Will you be the good man or the evil man!? Well it doesn't matter in the end because all along you had no choice! But does anyone ever really have a choice? There's only one man who knows the answer to that question and it's.... you! Now consider this paradox while the credits roll."

 

[Instro]

Can't wait to see what kind of weird monetization they try to stick in this franchise.

 

[Chubzdoomer]

Better to have his hands out of the pudding honestly. Infinite was an embarrassing disaster.

Infinite left a lot to be desired in the gameplay department, but an embarrassing disaster? Come on, man--it wasn't even close to being that.

When I think "embarrassing disaster," I think Aliens: Colonial Marines, Brink, Daikatana, Duke Nukem Forever, etc. At worst, Infinite was disappointing and underwhelming. Even then, it was still an unforgettable experience.

 

[zlatko]

I never got around to Infinite...and Bioshock 1 is one of my favorite games of all time.

I hope they do a HD re-master of it before the next Bioshock sequel.

 

[fork_bomb]

Couldn't agree more, but I'm not expecting it. What I do expect is a massive dose of illusory choice and faux-meaningful, indulgent writing.

"Will you be the good man or the evil man!? Well it doesn't matter in the end because all along you had no choice! But does anyone ever really have a choice? There's only one man who knows the answer to that question and it's.... you! Now consider this paradox while the credits roll."

Ouch.

 

[overcast]

Love the franchise and would like to see a remaster with all of the bells and whistles. Still haven't played Minerva's Den.

 

[Maximo]

Spoiler

Bioshock 2 was the best Bioshock

If the whole of Bioshock 2 had the same quality as Minerva's Den I might agree.

 

[Meaty]

As an option! As an option!

I prefer the puzzle game for hacking as well.

Dont think it would work. Bioshock 2 hacking had to be done mid combat sometimes. Hard to balance something to make it both fast and dynamic and slow paced.

I agree with you about the remake tho. Its my absolute favorite game ever. A remake would be soooo nice

 

[AdaWong]

I will gladly and proudly state that BioShock 2 is one of my favorite games ever. I hate the hate for it.

 

[Bizzquik]

I know several key members of Minerva's Den have moved on, but if that DLC proved anything its that if the right people are hired that understand the series' tone, mechanics, and lore....the series can still be amazing without Ken Levine.

Happy to hear Infinite got to 11mil, too.
I would pay $60 for a XB1/PS4 series Remaster if it does 1080p/60fps. ...and I already own the games on PC; I just love the series that much.

 

[Gryph]

Infinite left a lot to be desired in the gameplay department, but an embarrassing disaster? Come on, man--it wasn't even close to being that.

When I think "embarrassing disaster," I think Aliens: Colonial Marines, Brink, Daikatana, Duke Nukem Forever, etc. At worst, Infinite was disappointing and underwhelming. Even then, it was still an unforgettable experience.

Fair enough, disaster is harsh, it was certainly a critical and financial success.

I'd say the game play is fine, it's not riveting, but the set pieces are gorgeous.

The story however is my biggest gripe. It is a mess. It doesn't make sense, it's ineptly emotional and it's presented as such a "grand story" that it just comes across as insulting. That story work is Ken's hand print.

I look forward to the next "Shock" game in whatever setting the team ends up pursuing, I just hope the writing gets better.

 

[kamineko]

Infinite and BAS were a mess, collectively. Granted, they were the kind of mess that only clever, highly talented people can make, but I don't see why someone else shouldn't be allowed to take a crack at it.

Besides, and I say this as someone who enjoyed all of the Bioshock games, Minerva's Den is probably the one Bioshock experience I would be most eager to repeat.

 

[visiblemode]

I feel like this is leading up to a possibly odd Bioshock themed not-quite-a-sequel.

Man, I really enjoyed all 3 Bioshock games though.

Disappointed that the series seems to have come apart at the seams on the development side.

After all the success, sorta feels like Levine was sorta sent out to pasture, or at least let go, too easily.

 

[Guri]

I liked all 3 games (although I enjoyed Minerva's Den more than BS2 itself), but 1 and Infinite will always be some of my favourite games. It's too bad that some people actually hate Infinite (and I guess it has something to do with initial expectations), but everyone has their own tastes. To me, not many games were able to capture my attention from start to finish (including the DLCs) and with an amazing art.

I'm pretty sure Hangar 13 is still doing this even if the teaser is XCOM. They seem the most plausible option.

I know the rumour was that 2K Marin closed in 2013, but Take-Two's CEO confirmed last year that they would be responsible for the series going forth. Just not the same 2K Marin that made BioShock 2. The leads of that game are long gone (and made games like The Magic Circle and Gone Home).

 

[daveo42]

Glad to hear Infinite sold 11mil, but sad to also know that hitting that number didn't mean anything since Take Two didn't feel like it sold enough to keep Levine or his team around.

Not sure I'd want another Bioshock game without him and with how things wrapped up at the end of Infinite. I guess there are places it could go, but it feels like that universe should be closed off and something new be started under the name "Shock" instead.

 

[Nirolak]

I liked all 3 games (although I enjoyed Minerva's Den more than BS2 itself), but 1 and Infinite will always be some of my favourite games. It's too bad that some people actually hate Infinite (and I guess it has something to do with initial expectations), but everyone has their own tastes. To me, not many games were able to capture my attention from start to finish (including the DLCs) and with an amazing art.



I know the rumour was that 2K Marin closed in 2013, but Take-Two's CEO confirmed last year that they would be responsible for the series going forth. Just not the same 2K Marin that made BioShock 2. The leads of that game are long gone (and made games like The Magic Circle and Gone Home).

Hangar 13 is in Marin County, California. I think he meant that studio instead.

 

[BoxManLocke]

Glad to hear Infinite sold 11mil, but sad to also know that hitting that number didn't mean anything since Take Two didn't feel like it sold enough to keep Levine or his team around.

Wasn't Levine's decision to leave his own, and no one else's ?

 

[cameron]

Infinite doing 11 million is really impressive. The last figure I remember was around 4 million months after release.

 

[alexandros]

Roughly 9.3 million of those 25 million copies were on Steam, according to Steam Spy. The overall PC sales numbers are probably even higher since both Bioshock 1 and 2 were initially GFWL titles so copies sold at retail didn't activate on Steam at the time. Is Bioshock still GFWL?

 

[daveo42]

Wasn't Levine's decision to leave his own, and no one else's ?

I went and looked (I forgot) and it was a closure of Irrational Games all together, but he's still with Take-Two. I think it was a decision by Take-Two and 2k to cut the studio due to lack-luster sales after a long dev cycle on the game.

 

[Sethista]

Ok give me a prequel to Bioshock the game's protagonist will be a reporter that heard a rumor of an underwater city,as he investigates something happens and you get see what led up to the events of Bioshock.

we already know the entire prequel to bioshock, its the book Bioshock:Rapture, it was developed and overlooked by levine himself. I dont know if a prequel game would work, I would rather continue where minerva's den left off, or years in the future, where a group of people tries to take rapture back.

 

[Duraigo]

I believe that Levine is a great game director, but I also believe that the ball was dropped on Infinite. It's not a bad game, it was definitely one of the great games of 2013, but it could have been so much better. Levine going stepping away from the Bioshock franchise IMO is a good thing. Now he can create new experiences without having to be confined to the mechanics of a Bioshock game.

 

[Guri]

Hangar 13 is in Marin County, California. I think he meant that studio instead.

But Hangar 13 was opened in December and his statement was in May of 2014. It could have been planned since then, though.

There's also the rumour that they are working on Mafia.

I don't think we can be sure for now. 2K Marin's site is still online (but so is 2K Australia's). I guess we will have to wait and see.

Regardless of the studio that picks it up, none of the former leads will work on it, so it will be an entirely new direction.

 

[Guri]

I went and looked (I forgot) and it was a closure of Irrational Games all together, but he's still with Take-Two. I think it was a decision by Take-Two and 2k to cut the studio due to lack-luster sales after a long dev cycle on the game.

Actually, no. It was confusing, but Irrational still exists, just with less than 20 people working there. In fact, just recently they had openings.

 

[william_557]

Bioshock 1 was easily the best bioshock game i think

Bioshock 2 was good but i thought it didn't have the same magic as the original

Infinite was pretty good aswell

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I'm glad Take Two is still interested in the series.

I honestly don't care about Ken Levine. I thank him and his team for providing such great overall experiences with BioShock (introduction to Rapture!) and Infinite (hands down some of the best art direction from last gen). However...

BioShock 2, the one NOT involving Levine, is the best game in the series. Best overall gameplay. Best weapon selection. Best selection of plasmids. Best enemies -- the Big Sister alone beats any other enemy in the BioShock series in terms of encounter design and difficulty. Best story. And -- this is going to be controversial -- Sofia Lamb is a much better antagonist than Andrew Ryan.

Lastly -- and this is at least a point most of us agree on -- Minerva's Den is not just the best DLC of the series, it may be a strong candidate for best DLC of all time. Period.

Bring on more BioShock, Take-Two!

EDIT: poster right below me knows what's up!

 

[Ralemont]

But Bioshock will never be the same without Levine..

BioShock 2 is the best BioShock. Not that I want to hate on the others, as I think all three games are good, at worst.