Support NeoGAF

[6.8]

All that unpaid OT sure paid off!

 

[lupinko]

There was a big thread a little while ago with David Cage of Heavy Rain infamy said that the face tech in LA Noire was a dead end, unsustainable and not the direction the industry should be headed in. Many jumped at his throat and it turned into a David Cage/Heavy Rain shitfest.

Lookie what we have here...

DAVID CAGE WINS

fatalité

 

[dallow_bg]

He was referring to how much it would cost to use it and how viable it was as a tool for developers. People still dismissed his opinion.

Yup, that's how I remember it.

 

[mckmas8808]

But LA Noire sold like 3 million copies in a month, and still charts pretty regularly in Europe.

I remember saying a little while back that that if there was ever a point where a multi-million selling game still can't make back its budget, then we reached the feasible limit of game budgets. Well, ladies and gentlemen, there you have it. Barring a revolutionary improvement in the time and manpower invested in asset creation, modern games have reached the upper limit of what we can expect in terms of content.

Edit: Scratch that, it's 4 million shipped as of mid-June

Dude hold your horses. The game was in development for 7 years. That rarely ever happens.

 

[mik]

I don't get it. Where did all the money they had to have made from L.A. Noire go?

Elysian Fields.

 

[TheOddOne]

DAVID CAGE WINS

fatalité

But we all lose.

 

[Deadbeat]

Yeah, the port is being worked on by one of the Rockstar teams. This should have zero effect on it.

with zero effort as well.

 

[Goldrusher]

Que?

Kennedy Mitchell Miller

Australian film studio.

Kennedy-Miller Mitchell Films is an Australian film production company founded in 1973 by George Miller and producer Byron Kennedy, as Kennedy-Miller Films. While the production company has been Miller's main imprint since his earliest films, beginning Mad Max and Mad Max 2, it wasn't until 1998, during the release of Babe: Pig in the City, when it formally adopted the moniker of Kennedy-Miller Productions. In 2009, George Miller and Doug Mitchell renamed the company Kennedy-Miller Mitchell.

 

[MikeE21286]

So they're buying the staff? Labor laws in Australia are rough.

my first thought

 

[Onion_Relish]

Guess that means no more DLC. Might have to trade it in now.

 

[Somnid]

So they worked sweat shop conditions and didn't get paid, sold really well and still bankrupted themselves. That's some fucked management.

 

[CamHostage]

I am still getting a PC version of LA Noire, right?

Shouldn't be a problem, Bondi isn't converting it; Rockstar Leeds (the GTA Stories / Chinatown / Beaterator guys) are doing the job.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

with zero effort as well.

It's not like Bondi would've suddenly made it into a masterpiece on PC. You can only polish a turd so far.

Not that I think LA Noire is a turd, but it's certainly not a great game.

I'm certain that if Rockstar give the IP another crack with one of their own studios it will come out infinitely better.

 

[Pooya]

This was fast, not unexpected.

 

[mckmas8808]

There was a big thread a little while ago with David Cage of Heavy Rain infamy said that the face tech in LA Noire was a dead end, unsustainable and not the direction the industry should be headed in. Many jumped at his throat and it turned into a David Cage/Heavy Rain shitfest.

Lookie what we have here...

What was Cage's reason for saying that it was a dead end?

 

[Weenerz]

So Rockstar got most of the money and the IP? Wow Team Bondi was run by idiots.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Link to the David Cage thread for those interested:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426137

 

[Lostconfused]

Poorly managed studio goes out of business? Not at all surprising. Well not unless you look at Silicon Knights in comparison I guess.

 

[TheStevo]

with zero effort as well.

What, you think we're going to get a bad port that's unoptimized to hell and back like the GTA games? Oh shit... damn it, Rockstar, you better not screw us again.

 

[Brazil]

What was Cage's reason for saying that it was a dead end?

The fact that it's ridiculously expensive.

 

[gblues]

Always sad to see a good developer go out of business.

Good developers don't work their employees in permanent crunch mode, and don't let the scope of their project exceed their budget. If "Team" Bondi had sane business practices, LA Noire wouldn't have taken 7 years and wouldn't be a financial failure in spite of 4 million copies sold worldwide.

Mourn the hard workers who are out of a job, but don't mourn the company.

 

[lupinko]

But we all lose.

victoire parfaite

 

[Shiggy]

my first thought

Offer them contracts is probably meant.


Team Bondi had no chance to survive as nobody wanted to work with them anymore.

 

[Princess Skittles]

More credence on my theory that "AAA Games" are destroying the industry.

 

[AgentChris]

What was Cage's reason for saying that it was a dead end?

$$$ lots of it.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

What was Cage's reason for saying that it was a dead end?

Too expensive, too complicated, too limited.

It's not very flexible technology, to be sure.

 

[Shiggy]

More credence on my theory that "AAA Games" are destroying the industry.

That was probably not the main problem Team Bondi had.

 

[Saty]

Too much money out of a console game sale doesn't reach straight to the devs.

 

[mclem]

What I'm taking from this, for better or for worse:

If they *hadn't* had that insane unpaid overtime, could Noire even have been completed before the money ran out?

That's not a justification; in fact, quite the opposite; if the game was only viable in that situation, perhaps it should never have existed.

And yet, that said, I like the game. I don't adore it, I don't regard it as a masterpiece, but... I like it. I'm rather conflicted. I'm glad it exists, but it had absolutely no right to do so.

 

[Luckyman]

Rockstar took all the monies

 

[Strummerjones]

I don't get it. Where did all the money they had to have made from L.A. Noire go?

Aside from pissing money up the wall due to terrible management/planning (a huge amount of game content never shipped), they continously missed milestones throughout the development which caused them to be penalised by the financial backers. In the end what they got back in return was slashed to ribbons to make up.

tl;dr: Rockstar got it all.

someone will bail them out - this is the 21st century

This is what I said, but he pointed out that the Team Bondi name is tainted beyond repair now by scandal, and the money has already run out.

 

[evangd007]

Team Bondi had no chance to survive as nobody wanted to work with them anymore.

This.

It really didn't matter how good the game was or how much it sold, Bondi was never getting a contract again after the fiasco that was LA Noire's development cycle.

 

[Fersis]

Good luck to the devs hope you land on your feet.

 

[AppleMIX]

Rockstar should relaunch Team Bondi without McNamara. That would be awesome.

 

[FStop7]

So do the Bondi employees who were treated like slaves still get those phatty bonuses that Pachter claimed?

 

[Buzzati]

Pachter: "See! If they would've paid for their overtime, they would be in an even bigger mess! I got you in my logic trap!!"

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

I thought it sold over a million as well... just how much money did they invest into LA Noire? I thought this game was a hit...

Now hold on there, cat. This is next gen baby, a cool million'll not even get you past the door.

 

[Kaako]

Damn, that's crazy. Could be working for 4+ years and then poof, all gone. Video games industry is a scary place to work.

 

[gblues]

If they *hadn't* had that insane unpaid overtime, could Noire even have been completed before the money ran out?

Probably. If everyone had been getting a good night's sleep and working sane hours, there are millions of stupid decisions that would never have been made, and the game would have been finished a lot earlier.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Dude hold your horses. The game was in development for 7 years. That rarely ever happens.

Ridiculously long dev times are beginning to creep up a bit more lately.

Not counting GT5 and RDR, because Polyphony and Rockstar actually released other products.

 

[Princess Skittles]

That was probably not the main problem Team Bondi had.

No, but it is related. I mean, on the opposite end, didn't I read that the Team Meat guys overwork themselves to an extreme to get their game out? In the end, they're now millionaires. That didn't destroy their entire studio and left hundreds of people unpaid.

Okay, maybe not the EXACT comparison/analogy needed here, but I'm tired, it's Friday.

 

[NHale]

Rockstar should relaunch Team Bondi without McNamara. That would be awesome.

So you want the Team Bondi staff to suffer from almost the exact same working conditions they suffered under McNamara? Why don't you send them directly to hell?

 

[Barrett2]

Incredible. Sell millions of copies, go out of business.

Though, didn't they have a really mismanaged dev process?

 

[_Xenon_]

Those expensive face animations must be one of the reasons of this. Too much resources wasted on those things instead of polishing the game and paying the team.

 

[Always-honest]

owww..... goddamn.. it's a rough business...

Well,.. i did just get the game. Will play it tonight to honor these guys.

 

[AAK]

Help a noob out....

How does this work? Doesn't Rockstar pay Team Bondi to get the game out in time? Doesn't the publisher suffer if a game doesn't sell properly, not the developer?

 

[sixteen-bit]

Now hold on there, cat. This is next gen baby, a cool million'll not even get you past the door.

Current gen actually.

 

[deadhorse32]

They have been around since 2003 and released 1 game.

 

[StuBurns]

Anyone would think spending nearly a decade to make a 7/10 was bad.

 

[Ushojax]

And there are some people on GAF who want massively more powerful consoles. Studios are going bust making games for these ones!