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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

J

julrik

Member
Hammer24 said:
I think it is a very bad idea. And I would assume, that you either have a faulty display, or have the TV calibrated wrong. On my C6 there are none of the problems you mentioned.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but panel uniformity varies between sets. Judder has also been apparent on both of my E6's.

But the fact that LG decided to lock the colour gamut to Wide and not offer calibration options in Game Mode is absolutely mind-boggling. There's no way to get a calibrated picture and have decent input lag while gaming because of it.

I want my TV calibrated for both movies and games, and LG doesn't offer that..


Kyoufu said:
I think you're crazy. There's no such thing as a perfect TV but it's a lot better than the KS8000.

edit: oops, double post
Click to expand...
True, so one needs to decide which faults one could live with. That's why I'm thinking I might sacrifice the black levels for a calibrated picture while gaming.
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
julrik said:
Fair enough, but panel uniformity varies between sets. Judder has also been apparent on both of my E6's.

But the fact that LG decided to lock the colour gamut to Wide and not offer calibration options in Game Mode is absolutely mind-boggling. There's no way to get a calibrated picture and have decent input lag while gaming because of it.

I want my TV calibrated for both movies and games, and LG doesn't offer that..
Click to expand...

I simply do not bother with game mode. The "normal" HDR mode is more than fine for gaming, and this way I don't have to switch anything between gaming and disc playback.
 
jfoul

jfoul

Member
This might be a good place to ask. I'm looking for a 34 inch Ultrawide monitor that I want to use for productivity and games. So, probably at least 1440p /120hz with good response times.
 
J

julrik

Member
Hammer24 said:
I simply do not bother with game mode. The "normal" HDR mode is more than fine for gaming, and this way I don't have to switch anything between gaming and disc playback.
Click to expand...
You mean the fake HDR picture mode? Yeah, not going to do that..

From what you've said, you don't seem to care about neither input lag nor a correct picture. Glad you're happy with your purchase, though.
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
julrik said:
You mean the fake HDR picture mode? Yeah, not going to do that..

From what you've said, you don't seem to care about neither input lag nor a correct picture. Glad you're happy with your purchase, though.
Click to expand...

No, I use the ISF light, ISF dark and HDR presets. The pic is as correct as possible. For gaming (with HDR enabled games) I use the HDR presets, same with 4K BRs. For "normal" games I use the ISF profiles.
Input lag is negligible. Coming from a good plasma set with game mode enabled I can't spot a difference.
 
G

Geneijin

Member
julrik said:
Am I an idiot for considering returning an E6 and getting a KS8000 instead? While the E6 is a good TV, it's not perfect (banding, justering, poor near-blacks, poor game mode with wrong colour gamut). The KS8000 offers higher brightness, game mode with calibration options, higher motion resolution and is cheaper. The plan is to keep my TV for a couple of years and then get a Panasonic or Sony OLED anyways.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Well, is a calibrated KS8000 with white balance settings applied better than a calibrated OLED without them? I would have never bought my C6P if that was such a deal breaker.
 
J

julrik

Member
Hammer24 said:
No, I use the ISF light, ISF dark and HDR presets. The pic is as correct as possible. For gaming (with HDR enabled games) I use the HDR presets, same with 4K BRs. For "normal" games I use the ISF profiles.
Input lag is negligible. Coming from a good plasma set with game mode enabled I can't spot a difference.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. Yeah, HDR gaming is not the problem, as the HDR modes offer calibration tools, incl. HDR Game AFAIK. The problem is with SDR gaming in Game Mode - I can't use ISF while playing, as the difference in input lag is obvious to me.

Geneijin said:
Well, is a calibrated KS8000 with white balance settings applied better than a calibrated OLED without them? I would have never bought my C6P if that was such a deal breaker.
Click to expand...
Well, the TV isn't calibrated properly if one doesn't even touch the white balance controls. Setting the contrast and brightness correctly is important, sure, but so is colour, white balance and gamma. The fact that Game Mode is locked to Wide is just stupid - no way to get correct colours with it locked to the wrong gamut.

And I wasn't aware of the fact before buying. I should perhaps have looked it up, but why would I even think of that before buying? The other major facturers offer it, so why not LG? It's just plain stupid and/or lazy engineering.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
julrik said:
True, so one needs to decide which faults one could live with. That's why I'm thinking I might sacrifice the black levels for a calibrated picture while gaming.
Click to expand...

You can calibrate the E6 for gaming. You can also use ISF Expert modes for more calibration options. The input lag on those modes aren't much higher if you turn off all the processing junk.

I don't actually use SDR Game mode on my E6. ISF Bright has been the way to go.
 
holygeesus

holygeesus

Banned
I think colour gamut being locked to wide is fixed in the latest firmware version, if it helps? Also if it ever comes out here!
 
W

Weevilone

Member
Kyoufu said:
Nope, still locked to Wide on SDR Game mode. You can choose whatever on HDR Game mode though.
Click to expand...

I can't believe people aren't more vocal about this. I don't use SDR game mode for this reason. It's not ideal, but I'd rather deal with input lag than the oversaturated colors.
 
W

Wollan

Member
Endorphineforeverybody said:
Good to know, was thinking about buying the b6 but with this lag, just no. Also still no HDR Update for the EU. My current TV has 7ms input lag.
Click to expand...
In the US the patch has made 4K/60fps HDR gaming latency very low at 28.5ms (Leo Bodnar). http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6
The same update just needs to be deployed in Europe.

And I doubt your TV actually has merely 7ms? (well, depending on method, Leo Bodnar is the most used) The best I have ever heard using Leo Bodnar method is Sony Bravia LCD's which ends up at 17ms.
 
E

Endorphineforeverybody

Member
Wollan said:
In the US the patch has made 4K/60fps HDR gaming latency very low at 28.5ms (Leo Bodnar). http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6
The same update just needs to be deployed in Europe.

And I doubt your TV actually has merely 7ms? (well, depending on method, Leo Bodnar is the most used) The best I have ever heard using Leo Bodnar method is Sony Bravia LCD's which ends up at 17ms.
Click to expand...

Uh yes sorry, 15ms you are right W6. Where did i get the 7 from.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl42w653-201308113237.htm

Yes If this update comes. Dont get me wrong i would love to get the b6 and im searching for a month now to find a "perfect" tv for my needs.

But if i play a game with no HDR (which be all of the old games, right?) And i dont even have the possibility to change the colour to the right setting. Which would lead me to not using the game mode than i would have 50+ms lag?

As i said great TV. If LG fixes it and rolls out the update, i buy this set the day it is announced.

Edit: Before sombody asks me where i got the "right colour" thing from. GAF loves the source thing ^_^

https://youtu.be/HXwFi3E1K0g
 
S

SonComet

Member
julrik said:
Ah, I see. Yeah, HDR gaming is not the problem, as the HDR modes offer calibration tools, incl. HDR Game AFAIK. The problem is with SDR gaming in Game Mode - I can't use ISF while playing, as the difference in input lag is obvious to me.
Click to expand...

I just had my 65B6 professionally calibrated, and even with service menu adjustments game mode still looks too vibrant to me. ISF Day looks far better. Also, at least on the B6, HDR game mode has a glitch where the very bottom of the screen is not in sync with the rest of the image. So as of right now both game modes are useless to me. Luckily I find the difference in input lag to be subtle on this set. But if 28ms vs 50-60ms is too much, then these LGs are not the right tv for you as long as you value an accurate and glitch free image.
 
G

Geneijin

Member
julrik said:
Well, the TV isn't calibrated properly if one doesn't even touch the white balance controls. Setting the contrast and brightness correctly is important, sure, but so is colour, white balance and gamma. The fact that Game Mode is locked to Wide is just stupid - no way to get correct colours with it locked to the wrong gamut.

And I wasn't aware of the fact before buying. I should perhaps have looked it up, but why would I even think of that before buying? The other major facturers offer it, so why not LG? It's just plain stupid and/or lazy engineering.
Click to expand...
Oh, I agree. I just assume it's something already researched if you're doing your own measurements. Although, to be fair, it's not something besides maybe a few user reviews would care to mention from my recollection. Not even rtings.com made any mention of it. It's not brought up much because so few care quite honestly.

If color accuracy and performance matter that much to you, replace the E6P with the KS8000. The reason I asked you the last question was because I was wondering if you've already done what I asked and still dissatisfied with those results. I wouldn't personally switch because the KS8000 has it's own inherent issues and is still an edge-lit display at the end of the day for me.
 
R

Retromelon

Member
Wollan said:
In the US the patch has made 4K/60fps HDR gaming latency very low at 28.5ms (Leo Bodnar).
Click to expand...
That may be so, but unless you're gaming on a ps4 pro, (and I don't know how many 4k 60fps games it can push, but I highly doubt its a lot) its a mixed bag. For example, if you're using a 2016 lg oled for pc, you're gonna have to choose between 4k hdr or 4k 4:4:4 color, because it can't do both. Just another reason to go lcd.
 
Y

Yaari

Member
NYR said:
Those prices are horrible. They honestly think people will pay OLED prices because they are calling these "QLED".
Click to expand...

It's their new line-up, they always start high. If you look at how much some of the 2016 TV's already dropped by now, I don't think they are even that high at all. Yeah, high if you insist on buying it on day 1 I suppose.
 
X

xelloss12

Member
Retromelon said:
That may be so, but unless you're gaming on a ps4 pro, (and I don't know how many 4k 60fps games it can push, but I highly doubt its a lot) its a mixed bag. For example, if you're using a 2016 lg oled for pc, you're gonna have to choose between 4k hdr or 4k 4:4:4 color, because it can't do both. Just another reason to go lcd.
Click to expand...

There is no current TV that does 4k 4:4:4 60fps, OLED or LCD. It's a limitation of HDMI 2.0.
 
N

Night Hunter

Banned
I Eat Thumbtacks said:
Samsung's QLED TVs are up for preorder on their official site:http://www.samsung.com/us/televisions-home-theater/tvs/qled-tvs/s/_/n-10+11+hv1uh+zq2jh

They are more expensive than I thought they would be.
Click to expand...

271.gif


The sad thing is they still won't really loose any marketshare, cause for them it's all about those affordable crappy 6000 mass market TVs in the end.
 
G

guitarguy316

Member
For the LG OLEDs, i can't believe people can't tell a difference using ISF or standard HDR modes instead of the "game modes". The input lag is cut in half by using the game modes.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
Yaari said:
It's their new line-up, they always start high. If you look at how much some of the 2016 TV's already dropped by now, I don't think they are even that high at all. Yeah, high if you insist on buying it on day 1 I suppose.
Click to expand...

Yep. This year's 9000s had a list price of 2500 initially and they go for 1500 now.
 
W

Weevilone

Member
guitarguy316 said:
For the LG OLEDs, i can't believe people can't tell a difference using ISF or standard HDR modes instead of the "game modes". The input lag is cut in half by using the game modes.
Click to expand...

My guess is a lot of OLED people came from plasma displays that had worse input lag than the OLED with ISF mode. That's what I did, so even if I don't use game mode because LG is stupid, it's a narrow win.
 
G

Geneijin

Member
guitarguy316 said:
For the LG OLEDs, i can't believe people can't tell a difference using ISF or standard HDR modes instead of the "game modes". The input lag is cut in half by using the game modes.
Click to expand...
I can if I compare the two picture modes playing a game like console Overwatch, but I'm not sensitive enough to notice input lag outright. The input lag in ISF isn't too much of a detriment for me to willingly sacrifice picture quality. I also came from a Panasonic plasma TV, so that could be a reason why I don't care much unless I'm playing competitive.
 
R

Retromelon

Member
another point of confusion: in the rtings lg b6 review, they list the measured input lag for 4k @ 4:4:4 as 70.9 milliseconds, which is...not good. In their c6 review, which is purportedly the same exact tv, but curved, the lag for that same setting is 34.1 milliseconds. What the hell is going on
 
P

Paragon

Member
Retromelon said:
another point of confusion: in the rtings lg b6 review, they list the measured input lag for 4k @ 4:4:4 as 70.9 milliseconds, which is...not good. In their c6 review, which is purportedly the same exact tv, but curved, the lag for that same setting is 34.1 milliseconds. What the hell is going on
Click to expand...
The B6 uses a different chipset for image processing than the C6/E6.
 
A

Anarion07

Member
Ok my girlfriend and me just discovered something pretty nice. She actually thought we just drank too much.

When you fire up (heh) the netflix fireplace 4k thingy and put your face up close to the tv, it's actually really warm where the fire is and Pretty cool where it isn't.

Of course it's because of OLED, but I didn't think you'd be able to feel it that pronounced.
 
O

Orca

Member
OK guys...it's time for a new TV. I want something to game on - PS4 Pro and Xbox One S. Looking for 4K, HDR, and preferably 65-70 inches.

Difficulty level - I really only want to spend $2,500-3,000...

Canadian.

Am I asking the impossible to want a good set for that?
 
R

Retromelon

Member
longdi said:
When will 4k screens have the capability to display 4k/60/4:4:4...? Im holding out till the
Click to expand...
4k tvs can already do that at 8 bit color. If you mean 10 bit, well..
https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/427rwk/422_10_bit_vs_444_8_bit_for_4k/
I have an LG 4K set that displays 4:4:4 at 8 bit or 4:2:2 at 10bit. Which setting is superior? I mostly use my set for gaming
Click to expand...
4:4:4 that's the only way to get the true full resolution.

The 8 bit colour isn't an issue for gaming and most wouldn't notice the difference.
Click to expand...
take that as you will. I won't pretend to know how it all works but 8 bit seems like it is just fine
 
NYR

NYR

Member
Orca said:
OK guys...it's time for a new TV. I want something to game on - PS4 Pro and Xbox One S. Looking for 4K, HDR, and preferably 65-70 inches.

Difficulty level - I really only want to spend $2,500-3,000...

Canadian.

Am I asking the impossible to want a good set for that?
Click to expand...
You have options, but you pretty much only have one REAL option at that price point, your best bet is the 65" Samsung KS8000 for $3299. You can get the 60" for $2999. Amazon does have a reseller listing it at $2700, though. Feel free to google reviews on it, it is one of the better TVs out there. You can have more options at that size and price, but anything else will basically net you a mid range TV for the size and price you want. See reviews below. You can always shop around or negotiate $200 off the price of the KS8000 at Best Buy, I don't see them not wanting to do that deal.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product...spx?path=f2f0373e72b298fefd53db3c7795cfe4en02

http://m.visions.ca/#/home-productdetail?productId=31484

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01C5TFNSM/

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ks8000

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/65-inch/best

With that said, quite frankly, if you want top of the line of what your want, I spent $7000 for what you want. 65" LG E6. Your best bet is the LG B6 but it is $4999:
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product...spx?path=bb7fc4aea471c920a1e07c23b0535d03en02

Edit:
If you're in Toronto, you can get a 65 inch for 1999 which is smoking hot:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/hifi-citi-hot-samsung-ks8000-55-1499-65-1999-2078733/
 
iamvin22

iamvin22

Industry Verified
So is it best to get a ks8000 now for gaming/ media and come 2020 jump on the sets with the mature more hdmi 2.1 spec?
 
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