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[aeolist]

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/featu...ving-gaza-blockade-has-entered-its-tenth-year

Ali was born in Gaza and for almost ten years has been living under a tight blockade on air, land and sea, entering its tenth year in June 2016. The blockade keeps him and the rest of the 1.8 million people of Gaza isolated and locked into a tiny 365 square kilometres-enclave - the Gaza Strip has one of the highest population densities in the world - tormented by extreme poverty and dilapidated by repeated conflicts.

Chronic fuel and electricity shortages, with power cuts between 18 and 22 hours per day, extreme water pollution - 95 per cent of the Gaza groundwater is undrinkable - and devastated infrastructure, as a dire reminder of repeated cycles of armed violence, are the daily reality. Gaza's people are denied a human standard of living. This was not always the case: before the imposition of restrictions on movements of people and goods, the Gaza Strip was a relatively developed society with a productive base and a thriving economy.

Blockade and occupation have reversed this process, accelerated by repeated Israeli military operations and widespread destruction, and today Gaza is subject to what the UN calls de-development. Located at the Mediterranean Sea between Egypt and Israel, Gaza could be famous for its palm trees, fruits and white beaches. Instead, it is known for a sewage and hygiene crisis titled by the Time magazine a “ticking global-health time bomb”.

When a place becomes unliveable, people move. This is the case for environmental disasters such as droughts, or for conflicts, such as in Syria.

Yet this last resort is denied to the people in Gaza. They cannot move beyond their 365 square kilometres territory. They cannot escape, not the devastating poverty or the fear of another conflict. Its highly educated youth - almost 50 per cent of the population are below 17 years of age - do not have the option to travel, to seek education outside Gaza, or to find work, anywhere else beyond the perimeter fence and the two tightly-controlled border-checkpoints in the north and south of the Gaza Strip.

With the Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza almost entirely closed except for a few days per year, and with Israel often denying exit even for severe humanitarian cases or staff of international organizations, the vast majority of the people have no chance of getting one of the highly sought-after “permits”. They can also not leave across the sea without the risk of being arrested or shot at by the Israeli or Egyptian navies, and they cannot climb over the heavily guarded perimeter fence between Israel and Gaza without the same risks.

The state of Israel is committing a slow and deliberate genocide against the Palestinian people. They use the excuse of terrorism to commit war crimes and perpetuate one of the worst cases of armed oppression in the history of the human species, but frankly if I lived like this I'd probably be shooting rockets over the border myself. They have taken everything from these people (most of them CHILDREN) and won't even grant them a swift death, instead condemning them to a years-long process of despair and degradation.

Fuck Israel and fuck my own country for enabling them.

 

[Beartruck]

"Hey, how'd we end up getting this country in the first place?"

"Who the fuck cares, now shove these guys into a death camp."

Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people and the worldwide indifference to it is going to be seen in the future as one of the greatest tragedies of the late 19th/early 20th century.

 

[TAJ]

I think I heard something about another group of people being herded into a ghetto before. I wonder what they're up to these days.

 

[TemplaerDude]

Kind of crazy that American tax dollars go to support this. Doesn't Canada prop them up, too?

 

[TestOfTide]

Netanyahu is pissing on Rabin's grave.

 

[HighResTomato]

This shit looks like it's straight out off a dystopian film.

and on the other side.

 

[Furoba]

One of the reasons the UN security council is a total joke. Keeping millions of people locked up in an open air prison will never bring lasting security to Israel. The genocide of Palestine as a country as well as a people is a heinous crime.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

One of Israel's biggest supporters is about to get elected......future looks bright.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Trump only wishes he could build a wall like that.

But yeah, not much is going to change with Hillary in charge. Israel will keep illegally building settlements and the U.S. will offer some strongly-worded language and look the other way as we continue to provide support to them.

 

[JordanN]

The state of Israel is committing a slow and deliberate genocide against the Palestinian people.

Gaza Population 2000: 1.1 million
Gaza Population 2016: 2 million

2x the population growth in 16 years, but keep calling Israel evil and tarnishing actual genocides.

 

[Dopus]

Gaza Population 2000: 1.1 million
Gaza Population 2016: 2 million

2x the population growth in 16 years, but keep calling Israel evil and tarnishing actual genocides.

No surprise seeing you here to defend Israeli policy.

 

[Cocaloch]

Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people and the worldwide indifference to it is going to be seen in the future as one of the greatest tragedies of the late 19th/early 20th century.

You don't seem to understand the Chronology here. It's more an issue of the mid 20th century.

Gaza Population 2000: 1.1 million
Gaza Population 2016: 2 million

2x the population growth in 16 years, but keep calling Israel evil and tarnishing actual genocides.

That's a weird way to measure anything. I'm also not sure how it addresses the qualitative issues that this article brought up.

One of Israel's biggest supporters is about to get elected......future looks bright.

Is Hilary really more of an Israel supporter than most every American politician? This is a more general problem than you're making it out to appear.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people and the worldwide indifference to it is going to be seen in the future as one of the greatest tragedies of the late 19th/early 20th century.

.

 

[S-Wind]

Some Israelis want their Lebensraum.

 

[commedieu]

What is there to say really?

Oh yeah, fucking disgusting.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Weird that nobody is comparing Egypt to the Nazis, despite also maintaining a blocade. Weird that there are photos of the West Bank when this is about Gaza. Weird there is no mention of how the blockade is in place because a genocidal terror group called Hamas took over the strip and hasn't allowed elections since, yet has terrorized and murdered its own people and instigated pointless conflicts designed to maximise suffering.

Who am I kidding, none of that is weird. It is entirely possible to condemn the many awful actions of the terrible Israeli government while also taking a rational look at how the Palestinian leadership also bears huge responsibility for getting itself into this position. The world is just a lot easier to deal with when you can fool yourself into believing it is all black and white.

 

[Sony]

Weird that nobody is comparing Egypt to the Nazis, despite also maintaining a blocade. Weird that there are photos of the West Bank when this is about Gaza. Weird there is no mention of how the blockade is in place because a genocidal terror group called Hamas took over the strip and hasn't allowed elections since, yet has terrorized and murdered its own people and instigated pointless conflicts designed to maximise suffering.

Who am I kidding, none of that is weird. It is entirely possible to condemn the many awful actions of the terrible Israeli government while also taking a rational look at how the Palestinian leadership also bears huge responsibility for getting itself into this position. The world is just a lot easier to deal with when you can fool yourself into believing it is all black and white.

Israel-Gaza conflict 2014. Need I say more?

 

[Jumplion]

Israel-Gaza conflict 2014. Need I say more?

I'd say so, yeah. That particular conflict was a mess of tunnels, airstrikes, rockets, and basically just a clusterfuck where nothing of significance changed as usual.

My thoughts on the whole situation is wide, varied, and changes from day to day. I've been wrestling with what to think of it for a good portion of my life, considering my own closeness to the region with family, and there's really only one thing that stays consistent in my view; everybody wants to dig their heels in and declare an absolute black and white solution to the situation. It's both fascinating and disheartening when I see people toss the same arguments, the same talking points, from any side of the discussion, with very little change over the years.

 

[ActWan]

Weird that nobody is comparing Egypt to the Nazis, despite also maintaining a blocade. Weird that there are photos of the West Bank when this is about Gaza. Weird there is no mention of how the blockade is in place because a genocidal terror group called Hamas took over the strip and hasn't allowed elections since, yet has terrorized and murdered its own people and instigated pointless conflicts designed to maximise suffering.

Who am I kidding, none of that is weird. It is entirely possible to condemn the many awful actions of the terrible Israeli government while also taking a rational look at how the Palestinian leadership also bears huge responsibility for getting itself into this position. The world is just a lot easier to deal with when you can fool yourself into believing it is all black and white.

Finally a sensible comment here. And fucking genocide gaf? Really??

 

[platakul]

Finally a sensible comment here. And fucking genocide gaf? Really??

Palestinians are cool and should not be oppressed

 

[commedieu]

How do you say "whataboutisim" in hebrew?

 

[CyclopsRock]

That's a weird way to measure anything. I'm also not sure how it addresses the qualitative issues that this article brought up.

It was obviously supposed to be a direct response to the suggestion that they're committing genocide against a population over which they exert considerable control. You have to have a strange definition of "genocide" to associate that with one of the highest rates of population growth in the world (again, considering the degree of control over the area that Israel has).

 

[BowieZ]

Evil incarnate.

 

[ActWan]

Palestinians are cool and should not be oppressed

Who are you talking to? What are you talking about?
Never have I said anything that contradicts your statement, nor do I think that way.
People saying there's genocide here is just absurd, or the word got a new meaning that I'm not aware of.

 

[commedieu]

It was obviously supposed to be a direct response to the suggestion that they're committing genocide against a population over which they exert considerable control. You have to have a strange definition of "genocide" to associate that with one of the highest rates of population growth in the world (again, considering the degree of control over the area that Israel has).

Let's just say Israel is treating them like the UN describes in their hourly condemnation of their actions. So we can save the conversation from a debate of the accuracy of what Israel is condemned for by the UN. Gaf, please don't use the word genocide.

Things like:

“gross violation of international humanitarian law.”

Are more apt.

It just goes to show you that having a historic experience with what the UN condemns israel for, doesn't really matter at the end of the day. You can always find an excuse to treat people in a way that gets the UN to condemn you for your direct actions.

Poor people with nothing to do but fuck isn't a bragging point when you're being condemned by the UN for your behavior.

The United states needs to stop sending Israel money.

 

[Chichikov]

Weird that nobody is comparing Egypt to the Nazis, despite also maintaining a blocade. Weird that there are photos of the West Bank when this is about Gaza. Weird there is no mention of how the blockade is in place because a genocidal terror group called Hamas took over the strip and hasn't allowed elections since, yet has terrorized and murdered its own people and instigated pointless conflicts designed to maximise suffering.

Who am I kidding, none of that is weird. It is entirely possible to condemn the many awful actions of the terrible Israeli government while also taking a rational look at how the Palestinian leadership also bears huge responsibility for getting itself into this position. The world is just a lot easier to deal with when you can fool yourself into believing it is all black and white.

Egypt had closed its border, this is not a blockade.
Israel had took control over Gaza's sea access and water and it never relinquished its full control of Gaza's airspace.
That's a blockade.
Even if it wasn't a predictable whataboutism deflection attempt, your basic comparison just doesn't work.

p.s.
Israel actually controls way more than Gaza's airspace and waters, but let's keep this discussion simple.

 

[Sony]

Egypt had closed its border, this is not a blockade.
Israel had took control over Gaza's sea access and water and it never relinquished its full control of Gaza's airspace.
That's a blockade.
Even if it wasn't a predictable whataboutism deflection attempt, your basic comparison just doesn't work.

p.s.
Israel actually controls way more than Gaza's airspace and waters, but let's keep this discussion simple.

Added, Israël illegaly occupies PPalestine, which is recognized by the UN. It's an official occupation.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Egypt had closed its border, this is not a blockade.
Israel had took control over Gaza's sea access and water and it never relinquished its full control of Gaza's airspace.
That's a blockade.
Even if it wasn't a predictable whataboutism deflection attempt, your basic comparison just doesn't work.

p.s.
Israel actually controls way more than Gaza's airspace and waters, but let's keep this discussion simple.

It isn't whataboutism to point out the causes of the blockade, and in regards to Egypt, regardless of what you consider constituting a continuance of the blockade, I was merely musing how it is only ever Israelis who automatically get the Nazi comparison around here. I also do not believe that the overall current blockade in itself is an evil, so I have no need to deflect from it. It is the horrific yet natural consequence of a shitty situation which actors on both sides are responsible for. There is plenty to criticise, but discussions of the blockade should not boil down to the knee-jerk 'Israel are Nazis'/ 'This is genocide' response.

Anyway, I have little more to say than to echo the poster above who is fed up with the same arguments from both sides and a failure of those invested in one side or the other to recognise the genuine grievances of the other.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Anyway, I have little more to say than to echo the poster above who is fed up with the same arguments from both sides and a failure of those invested in one side or the other to recognise the genuine grievances of the other.

Kinda hard to agree with this stance when one side has all the power and control, plus always claiming the high moral ground. Feels a bit like "both parties are the same" when comparing between Democrats and Republicans.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Gaza Population 2000: 1.1 million
Gaza Population 2016: 2 million

2x the population growth in 16 years, but keep calling Israel evil and tarnishing actual genocides.

I don't know if it's the case here, but if it's true that half the population is under 17 years old, it might mean that like in other poor countries, the birth rate goes up. In some of the worst spots on earth, people have 8-10 kids because a lot of them die.
Meanwhile in the most advanced socities like Japan birth rate drops very low.
So it's difficult to say what is what, but also even the wording of genocide and what that means has many different meanings. There is no singular defined characteristic across the globe of what a genocide is. For one, we have a lot of war crime denial in every part of the world, for reasons of honor, historic revisionism and a fear of having to pay reparations. That is why it is so problematic to talk about the Rape of Nanking (Shinzo Abe won't recognize it. A poor look when President Obama pays the utmost sincere respect in Hiroshima), Armenian Genocide or even the Iraq war. There is no political leader in America from what I know of who has adressed Iraq as anything more than a mistake. A unsatisfying tone when deaths amount upwards a million people- A lot more if you count the damage and death in other regions.

 

[Pikma]

Gaza Population 2000: 1.1 million
Gaza Population 2016: 2 million

2x the population growth in 16 years, but keep calling Israel evil and tarnishing actual genocides.

Lol what kind of argument is this?

"They have almost twice the population so that surely means they are doing a-ok and Israel is definitely not slowly killing them all"

This shit is so wrong I don't even know where to begin...

 

[commedieu]

It isn't whataboutism to point out the causes of the blockade, and in regards to Egypt, regardless of what you consider constituting a continuance of the blockade, I was merely musing how it is only ever Israelis who automatically get the Nazi comparison around here. I also do not believe that the overall current blockade in itself is an evil, so I have no need to deflect from it. It is the horrific yet natural consequence of a shitty situation which actors on both sides are responsible for. There is plenty to criticise, but discussions of the blockade should not boil down to the knee-jerk 'Israel are Nazis'/ 'This is genocide' response.

Anyway, I have little more to say than to echo the poster above who is fed up with the same arguments from both sides and a failure of those invested in one side or the other to recognise the genuine grievances of the other.

Slight correction:

Both sides are not equal. One has the capacity, and the international support to create peace. One side has a booming economy, one side is in a better position to negotiate and garner support for international security. During whatever needs to be done.

The other will have aid taken away if they try to talk to the ICC about Israeli war crimes.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Slight correction:

Both sides are not equal. One has the capacity, and the international support to create peace. One side has a booming economy, one side is in a better position to negotiate and garner support of the international security.

The other will have aid taken away if they try to talk to the ICC about Israeli war crimes.

Ok, I will hear out your suggestion to how Israel can end the blockade peacefully. I agree Israel should garner support of the international community, but what actual steps could Israel immediately take to end the blockade in a way that ensures the safety of its own people?

 

[Condom]

Israel has the world's strongest country by it's side and all those shills thinking Israeli conservatives really want peace.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Weird that nobody is comparing Egypt to the Nazis, despite also maintaining a blocade. Weird that there are photos of the West Bank when this is about Gaza. Weird there is no mention of how the blockade is in place because a genocidal terror group called Hamas took over the strip and hasn't allowed elections since, yet has terrorized and murdered its own people and instigated pointless conflicts designed to maximise suffering.

Who am I kidding, none of that is weird. It is entirely possible to condemn the many awful actions of the terrible Israeli government while also taking a rational look at how the Palestinian leadership also bears huge responsibility for getting itself into this position. The world is just a lot easier to deal with when you can fool yourself into believing it is all black and white.

Egypt is maintaining a blockade by US-Israel pressure. The military in Egypt is heavily financed by US money and with the condition that they follow their pro-israel policy. One of the main proposition of the Muslim Brotherhood was to remove this blockade.

It's such a lousy argument to defend Israel :/ "Oh yes, but it's regional allies are helping Israel to do so!"

 

[SKINNER!]

One of the main proposition of the Muslim Brotherhood was to remove this blockade.

the border was re-opened when Morsi was president I think?

 

[MisterFalcon]

the border was re-opened when Morsi was president I think?

And guess what happened next: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2012_Sinai_attack

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

the border was re-opened when Morsi was president I think?

Yes, and then Israel freaked out. It's pretty obvious that they had some kind of participation in Sisi rising. Sisi is even more Israel friendly than Sadat.

They portrayed the issue as being secularism against islamism, nobody care about "shari'a law" and right of women if you don't mess with US interests. (i.e saudi arabia and now iran)

 

[Buba Big Guns]

A more apt analogy is apartheid, which when you really think about it, it truly is.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Egypt is maintaining a blockade by US-Israel pressure. The military in Egypt is heavily financed by US money and with the condition that they follow their pro-israel policy. One of the main proposition of the Muslim Brotherhood was to remove this blockade.

It's such a lousy argument to defend Israel :/ "Oh yes, but it's regional allies are helping Israel to do so!"

As I said above, I don't think it is wrong that Israel maintains a blockade, I merely think it is disgusting that the response to anything related to the conflict inevitably involves comparisons to the Nazis, the genocidal tormentors of the Jews who wiped out six million of them. It isn't just the fact that the comparison is grossly inaccurate but that it is specifically attacking Jews with the memory of their greatest tragedy. Nobody would make the same jumps to call a Egyptians Nazis, nor any other group of people currently involved in a conflict.

Go ahead and criticise Israel, just don't make ridiculous and facetious comparisons if you want to be considered to have any sort of creditability.

 

[Moosichu]

Ok, I will hear out your suggestion to how Israel can end the blockade peacefully. I agree Israel should garner support of the international community, but what actual steps could Israel immediately take to end the blockade in a way that ensures the safety of its own people?

Let's put it this way. If Israel wants to ensure the safety of its own people, it has to take steps to remove the blockade.

The current way Palestinians are being treated is going to cause long-term resentment towards Israel, which will manifest itself in a melting pot of potential extremism. If you back people against a corner, they will lash out. That is definitely not going to keep the population of Israel safe.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

A more apt analogy is apartheid, which when you really think about it, it truly is.

"But it's really different this time, moslem are indeed savages!"

 

[Xun]

I come into these threads mainly to see if JordanN has spouted his pro-Israel bullshit and I leave unsurprised.

I honestly think he has Israel in the search bar at all times.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

"Hey, how'd we end up getting this country in the first place?"

"Who the fuck cares, now shove these guys into a death camp."

lol OK

A more apt analogy is apartheid, which when you really think about it, it truly is.

I agree, it's disgraceful Gaza was purged of 8000 people simply because they were Jews. Worse that the Palestinian Authority wants a Judenfrei West Bank. How such blatant apartheid flies under the radar is stunning.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Let's put it this way. If Israel wants to ensure the safety of its own people, it has to take steps to remove the blockade.

The current way Palestinians are being treated is going to cause long-term resentment towards Israel, which will manifest itself in a melting pot of potential extremism. If you back people against a corner, they will lash out. That is definitely not going to keep the population of Israel safe.

But what steps, precisely? Genuine question.

Palestinians already have long term resentment to Israel, we are way past that. I would wager a lot of Gazans have built up resentment to Hamas for worsening their situation. I don't understand why nobody wants to face the truth that as bad as the current Israeli government is, it has no partner for peace on Gaza.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

As I said above, I don't think it is wrong that Israel maintains a blockade, I merely think it is disgusting that the response to anything related to the conflict inevitably involves comparisons to the Nazis, the genocidal tormentors of the Jews who wiped out six million of them. It isn't just the fact that the comparison is grossly inaccurate but that it is specifically attacking Jews with the memory of their greatest tragedy. Nobody would make the same jumps to call a Egyptians Nazis, nor any other group of people currently involved in a conflict.

Go ahead and criticise Israel, just don't make ridiculous and facetious comparisons if you want to be considered to have any sort of creditability.

Maybe because Egyptians are not directly responsible (but only collaborators) of the progressive genocide of the Palestinian people. A whole sector of zionism still refuse to recognize "Palestinians" as having any kind of existence. They believe that Israel was an empty land for a landless people, it's the creed of zionism. Mmm, i wonder what would happen when such idea is confronted to the presence of an actual people ?

If you want to have some proof about the actual genocide intent of early israeli state against palestinians, this is a great work:

All the scanned documents who prove the attempt of genocide are in the end of the books, the genocide was prevented only by the presence of international observers.

 

[SKINNER!]

Nobody would make the same jumps to call a Egyptians Nazis,

One could also argue that the entire Arab World's (including Egypt) lack of formal support for the Palestinians is also something that should be highlighted.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I come into these threads mainly to see if JordanN has spouted his pro-Israel bullshit and I leave unsurprised.

Also Cheesecakebobby and Hix.

 

[SKINNER!]

Hahaha Hix, I was waiting for your ass to show up here. Still living in your nice house in one of those illegal settlements in the West Bank?

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

But what steps, precisely? Genuine question.

Palestinians already have long term resentment to Israel, we are way past that. I would wager a lot of Gazans have built up resentment to Hamas for worsening their situation. I don't understand why nobody wants to face the truth that as bad as the current Israeli government is, it has no partner for peace on Gaza.

And what Israeli have to offer as a peace ? '67 borders ? Jerusalem as the capital of the Palestinian State? Access to the sea? Recognishment of the Palestinian state?

Or just "we won't kill you if you submit" kind of peace ?