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The Changing Face of Nintendo

Warning!

You have entered a Nintendo thread. If you're too bitter to cope with yet another one, head back to the rest of the forum. If you're snapty00 hit reply and get it over with. There will be lots of talk about PS2 and Xbox, and I will glaze over how this generation and the last has gone from my point of view, but if the N word really hurts your eyes, you're going to see it a lot. So run while you still can!

=============================================


DOOM AND GLOOM. RIGHT OR WRONG?

I've just been over at the IGN boards, after spending a lot of time here, and the Nintendo board is mostly concerned with Sony's excellent third party support, the PS2's runaway success, how great Xbox Live is, worries about Nintendo in coming generations and the threat of EA software dominance spreading it's wicked reach across the globe, enslaving women & children, and commiting genocide upon the helpless damsels we call originality, innovation, industry creativity. This is all probably very healthy thinking for Nintendo fans, and they're not alone in this thinking. Xbox, PS2 and multiplatform advocates are all singing the same tune. But is it too doom and gloom?

There are posters, as well as more qualified industry analysts, hell, even fanboy journalists (whom shan't be named) who don't like where Nintendo is going. For them, the comfort of Nintendo profitability is not enough. Their unwillingness to commit to a more convergant hardware model, support online this generation, nor secure heavy western support is immensely frustrating. Gamers are increasingly woo'd by said factors, which has seen Nintendo have a diminishing presence in retail chains with the Gamecube console. Gamecube simply hasn't been appealing to westerners like the other machines have. With two successive generations, Nintendo's marketshare in the home has shrunk. It's made gufaws that rate modestly on the SEGA scale. But is it mortally wounded? Going anywhere soon? I'm not so sure.


Did you know? Cycle is another word for revolution!

This industry is unique. The formats on which we play videogames are reinvented cyclically, rebranded and marketed - at which point we can either embrace them, reject them, or meet them with a lukewarm indifference. I personally feel that it is this nature which has allowed cash wealthy underdogs to establish themselves strongly in the gaming world, and become the kind of phenomenons they have become. It happened first with Nintendo, again with Sony, and now with Microsoft. With all of this negative press, Nintendo is fast becoming underdog again. Is it still strong enough to be dangerous? Are people underestimating them? The videogame industry may be well over 20 years old, but we have only had four generations in the market as it exists today. Do we have enough to mark out definitive generational consumer trends with any degree of accuracy? Nintendo as a company has gone up, up, up, up thanks to it's handhelds, but their place in the home has gone up, up, down, down. What's next? Left, right, A, B, start? I say it depends on what Nintendo and it's competitors have in mind for the future... and what we do as well. We are fickle enough to embrace new brands in the console marketplace, but are we fickle enough to forget a company's perception?

And while we think about answering that.. has Nintendo's diminished performance this generation and last, really been anything to do with perception or brand power anyway?


Nintendo 64 Vs PlayStation

Take the Nintendo 64. It was plagued by arrogant manufacturing decisions from the start. Yes, it had the Nintendo name, it had Mario and friends... and sure these weren't as 'mature' as many games on rival Sony PlayStation - which was home to the pioneering of more movie-like games. But was this why, in latter life, Nintendo 64 was slain by PSone sales? Surely, the introvert "dream team" philosophy, difficult architecture, resulting lack of third party support and the cartridge format are all very big factors in their own right. If making kiddy games is so bad, then why did Nintendo 64 still sell in excess of 30 million units, with Mario 64 selling 10 million + itself? Why the strong presence of such games on non-Nintendo consoles today?


Gamecube Vs Nintendo 64

The reason I'm pitting these against each other is to qualify analytical complaints about Nintendo in the N64 generation, and to contrast them with the company's response & performance therein today. Nintendo suffered in the PlayStation generation. What did they do about it?

They ramped up production of Project Dolphin, the Nintendo Gamecube. People had complained about their stubborn reliance on cartridges... so Nintendo had Matsushita-Electric, the world's largest consumer-electronics maker, create a proprietary disk format that would nix load times significantly, as well as prevent piracy. They went with MoSys for fast latency memory. They had ArtX, soon to be owned by ATI, create a chip called Flipper... which predating Xbox's NV2A, performed somewhere between the already-at-market PS2 and aforementioned Microsoft console. While optimised PS2 games could look fantastic, it initially meant getting to know the PS2 hardware. Something detractors complained about in N64. So Nintendo made sure they had a developer friendly machine on their hands. They were tweaking with the machine, right up to the point it was unveiled at E3 at which point specs were made final - they made sure bottlenecks were few, and the machine was as efficient and cheap to manufacture as possible. They even dropped the innovative/unique three prong approach of the Nintendo 64 pad, and made a more conventional Playstation-esque controller.

In terms of promotional, and pro-active licensor activity: they have courted Japanese licensees like SEGA, Konami, Namco, and even Square-Enix (in which Sony holds a stake and has a strong relationship). To attend to complaints about a lack of mature titles - Nintendo acquired exclusivity to the Resident Evil series. They had a second party developer, Silicon Knights, create a Nintendo published horror game. They had the same developer work with Konami to recreate the classic PSone Metal Gear Solid game. They put their own most teen-friendly mascot in Namco's Soul Calibur II fighting game to spur on impressive sales. For the casual pick up and play gamer, interested in fun novel gimmicks.. they made the bongo peripheral, and with the help of Namco, partnered on making games for it. They tried to use the handheld market as leverage with selling Gamecube systems. This was a push on a "connectivity" concept that saw the Final Fantasy brand return to a Nintendo console for the first time since the mid-90s. A part of that collaboration came about as a result of the Q fund, a monetary fund set up at Nintendo for approving and funding small game projects in partnership with small developers. There are further fruits of such labors, like Geist from N-Space, Starfox Armada from Namco, and Advance Wars Under Fire from britsoft developer, Kuju. More recently they have given Europe games before the US market, and in what could well be response to public demand - created a Zelda title with a style more akin to the Ocarina of Time than the Wind Waker.

Fast foreward to today: Gamecube has performed below industry-analytical estimates and Nintendo's own estimates. Hardware is down. Third party support is up on N64, but not as high as it was at the beginning of this generation. Mario and Zelda haven't sold as much as they did last generation. Software sales of first party software is down, sales of other software up. Profitability is at an all time high, although this is in large part because of Gameboy. Nintendo posted its first quarterly loss in a very long time, this generation. Otherwise it is very healthy. It has an est. 5/6 billion warchest (possibly higher), has one of the best R&D depts in the industry, has fantastic IP, and is still one of the world's top software publishers. But the point remains, Nintendo was receptive enough to make improvements, and predicted 50 million consoles sold at one point, and have acheived only a small fraction of that.

What on earth went wrong?


Gamecube Vs PlayStation 2 Vs Xbox - enter Microsoft

By the time Xbox and Gamecube launched in the US (Nov 2001), Sony had already sold 20 million PS2s worldwide. By just over a year later (Jan 2003), it had sold 50 million! With backwards compatability making it that much easier for tens of millions of PlayStation owners to upgrade, AND known and loved franchises like Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Tekken, ISS/Winning Eleven, (and despite Nintendo's coup) Resident Evil.. not to mention DVD playback and a hype whipped up suggesting that movie quality CG would be possible on the console - it had everything needed to entice buyers before it even hit the shops. Some people in Japan and other parts of the world reportedly became initial early adopters because of the DVD playback alone.. which lest we forget was new and exciting at the time for many of us. And all of this before Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X, Gran Turismo 3, Winning Eleven 6/7/8, and this gens hottest property: Grand Theft Auto 3 (and later Vice City/San Andreas).

It's not a console without quality. While arguably being the home to the most content, thus the most shovelware, the machine is still home to many many critically acclaimed games, or games you can't get anywhere else. Despite it's age, it is still almost universally supported in newer multiplatform releases -- often before it's competitors. Sony, by November 2001, as their famous investors slide once said, had "already won the war". The battle in the console war now? ..Was for second place. And that's not been an easily fought battle for either party waging it.

Enter the William Gates III. Microsoft, worldwide leader in software for personal and business computing, one of the richest most secure companies in the world, and ran by none other than (Forbes 400) richest man in the world, Bill Gates... yeah, anyway, THOSE guys... well they decided they'd get into video games. As a part of that push, they had their machine include an ethernet adaptor for internet connectivity and a 10GB hard-drive: 8GB of which was to be used by end-users for game saves, music and downloads. In May of 2002 they also unveiled their plan to invest $2 billion over 5 years into the machine and a little something called Xbox Live: an online gaming service. Taking a hit on hardware, they had easily the most powerful console at Xbox launch. In addendum to this, they paid competitor Nintendo, and the founding Stamper Bros, 300 million dollars for the britsoft company Rareware/Rare in September '02. Rare have, to date, released only one game for the console and are famed among the hardcore fans for being slow to release games. However, as the company behind Goldeneye 007 on Nintendo 64, and as a respected house in general, their games are worth the wait, and more are on the way. A company Microsoft bought in 2000, Bungie, also struck gold with it's Halo franchise this generation - it is probably the most valuable western property outside of GTA. Putting the heat on Sony and Nintendo, MS acquired exclusives from dozens of western developers, conversions from PC that may not have otherwise broke the console market like those from iD (doom 3), Sierra, DICE and others, as well as exclusives from Japanese developers, like those under SEGAs wing, Tecmo, Koei, as well as virtually every major third party release, and some ports of popular PS2 games. Microsoft Game Studios (MGS) is now, itself, a viable and attractive first party publisher. They have acheived a lot as a result of all this effort. They have their foot, leg and upper torso firmly in the door of an industry that yields more revenue than movies. With Microsoft and Sony now having potential set-top boxes in so many homes, the prospect of yielding even more than this in future is strong indeed. Their Xbox Live service is highly regarded as the best of its kind currently on offer. It has a userbase amassed in excess of a million (as of July 04). The wind is definately in their sails in the North American and European territories but they have neither pulled away from Nintendo convincingly, nor caught up to Sony this generation.

And Nintendo? Where Nintendo have made improvements and rectified errors of old, they have made new mistakes. Their lack of foresight regarding the appeal of CDs has been mirrored with DVDs and the Nintendo Gamecube. Their controller has a unique face button arrangement, and only a fraction of the analog/click buttons that the other consoles have. As developer friendly as they tried to make it, this difference makes the increasingly popular move of porting code that much more unattractive. Nintendo's initial assertions at the start of this generation, that online gaming isn't yet widely popular enough, nor profitable, was also not reflected on the other consoles... however true that may or may not be. Sony pushed the SOCOM/headset bundle, and acquired many Network Play games - which included all EA games exclusively until recently. Microsoft, as I have already mentioned, made an even stronger investment in online gaming. Nintendo are now making sounds in Nintendo DS interviews that suggest they're about to change their tune on all of this... but it's too late for Gamecube. It's a shame really, because some of the great games for Xbox and PS2 have either not been ported to Gamecube at all or have suffered in quality and/or sales. Nintendo have improved third party relations this generation, but they did not court western developers as well as Microsoft or Sony, or in a way that reflected their own efforts with Japanese third parties. There are notable instances - like Metal Gear Solid for example - where they have had notable games, and potential success on their hands, but not capitalised by advertising. Nintendo of Europe and Nintendo Australia have both been sluggish to react to market conditions, price drops, retailers and competitor activity.. Iwata let it be known earlier in the year that he was ashamed of how things had gone in Australia for example. Parts of Europe, like the UK for example, are no better. With more 'western' genres like first person shooter, sports and racing sims being popular here - the Gamecube either doesn't offer the games at all, or it offers them inexclusively, without online components or other extras. Poor sales have resulted in reduced Nintendo shelf space in some stores, or in traditional multi-purpose high street stores, removal altogether. The machine itself is a minimalist purple cube - compared by some in the press to a toy. Black and Platinum units are less common, and "Spice" is no better perceived.

Yet, Nintendo are still very much with us. In worldwide sales, they are still competitive. And they're gearing up for some new battles...


Revolution Vs Xenon Vs PS3
Nintendo DS Vs PSP


Nintendo in coming generations is either going to fulfill its d00m3d destiny as decreed by armchair analysts everywhere, or it is going to prove it is a progressive, learning company, made up of talented people, and all under a brand that is vastly under-estimated.

Speculating on how Revolution could really well and truly fail next gen I would have to assume one or all of the following:

* Nintendo's diminishing share is as a result of a weakened brand, and the famed "kiddy" perception it has been unable to shake. It is not solely as a result of it's continued blunders.

* Microsoft will be willing to make the same or other similar, quantifiably large investments next generation - in order to make further progress.

* Sony will have put together an awesome console, that is capable of generating the same hype as PlayStation 2, and PSP/other-3d-handhelds will not cannabalise home console sales in any way.

* Events will occur that will allow Sony or Microsoft (maybe even both) to get the kind of head start in market-share that Sony has experienced this generation.

* That Microsoft has not significantly hurt the PlayStation brand.

* That Nintendo has learned NOTHING from this generation, despite learning from the prior one.


To be d00m3d or not to be d00m3d?

I'd like to end this stream-of-conciousness-tirade spewing forth from my tired fingers, by doing a quick copy_&_paste of my opening thoughts again. This is in the hopes of re-emphasising the nature of cycles, of revolutions, and returning to the beginning. This is my central theme, and I think it's why Nintendo have gone with Revolution as it's project name. Whether you take it as getting back to games, getting back to simplicity/user-friendliness, getting back to Nintendo Entertainment Systems, or just getting back to making people love Nintendo... we can all agree these are things Nintendo want.

This industry is unique. The formats on which we play videogames are reinvented cyclically, rebranded and marketed - at which point we can either embrace them, reject them, or meet them with a lukewarm indifference. I personally feel that it is this nature which has allowed cash wealthy underdogs to establish themselves strongly in the gaming world, and become the kind of phenomenons they have become. It happened first with Nintendo, again with Sony, and now with Microsoft. With all of this negative press, Nintendo is fast becoming underdog again.

Nintendo will be d00m3d or they won't be. They will either be changing enough to bounce back from this underdog climate currently pervading them, or they won't. As food for thought, I'll post some things that have indicated a changing Nintendo this generation following Gamecube's initial release:

* Yamauchi steps down
* Iwata, ex-developer who brought HAL from grave takes his place
* GBA SP unveiled
* Nintendo try to focus on using handheld market as leverage with Gamecube
* "Dream Team" philosophy fully abandoned. Third parties considered valuable.
* Development of TriForce arcade board. Partnerships with Namco & SEGA on software.
(F Zero GX/AC, Soul Calibur II + Link, Donkey Konga, StarFox Armada)
* Resident Evil exclusivity from Capcom. Good for core franchise games 2001 through 2004.
* Capcom 5 limited-exclusivity: RE4, PN03, Viewtiful Joe, Killer 7, Dead Pheonix (cancelled)
* Fitting exclusives from SEGA: Super Monkey Ball 1/2, PSO I,II & III, Sonic Adventure DX/2-Battle/Collection
* Q Fund used to loophole Square-Enix support
* First party published horror game: Eternal Darkness
* Three way collaboration: Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes
* Intent to extend Gamecube life with peripherals: bongos, microphone, and poss camera/dance mats in future
* Attempt to differentiate from competition:
(Nintendo DS + Stylus = start of push to innovate game interfaces/"styles-of-play" outside of graphical upgrades alone)
* Embracing useful technology in NDS: wireless, user-friendly stylus control, built in mic.
* Warming to non-game functionality: Pictochat, GBA SP SD-card based media player
* Commitment that aspects of DS may be reflected in Revolution
(meaning Rev. could have functionality to ensure games other consoles can not?)
* Intent to include backwards compatability and launch at same time as market leader (Sony) announced: lesson learned?
* Investments include Matrix' 3d memory, Gyration, Bandai corp
* Announcement of moves into movies/animation
* Ongoing partnerships with NEC, IBM, ATI.

Later!

Thom
 

Triumph

Banned
You really should find a hobby other than videogames.

Bird watching, or perhaps knitting. Really, does it matter this much to you that Nintendo is not dominant? If it does, then that's unhealthy.
 

Odnetnin

Banned
too long to read but my opinion on Nintendo is this - next gen is make or break.

that's it.

* did you actually sit and type all that? An essay? :lol
 

belgurdo

Banned
*extreme crying purple thing*

edit: this will do in the meanwhile

wwavatar1.gif
 
Raoul Duke said:
You really should find a hobby other than videogames.

Bird watching, or perhaps knitting. Really, does it matter this much to you that Nintendo is not dominant? If it does, then that's unhealthy.

I've got one. When I'm not playing video games, I talk about them on message boards when I can't sleep. That or I get drunk / go out or whatever. At all other times I'm in work. Seeing as I'm broke cos of Christmas, and I have a soft tissue injury on my left leg, I'm stuck in front of this thing unable to sleep.

This wasn't about being worried about their dominance. It was about being excited by the feeling competition is changing them for the better, and they may be under-estimated. A considered reaction and evaluation to the posts people make here and there about how good/bad these companies are doing. In spite of all that EA news earlier today, part of all this makes me think gaming is gonna be really good in a few years. And I like it now!

Anyhoo I write more than this in Uni, even when I hate the subject matter. This was quick and easy in comparison



edit: I gotta admit, looking at it myself after posting, it's a little longer than I thought :lol Time for an intervention? No videogames for a year? Something like that?
 

shpankey

not an idiot
Raoul Duke said:
You really should find a hobby other than videogames.

Bird watching, or perhaps knitting. Really, does it matter this much to you that Nintendo is not dominant? If it does, then that's unhealthy.

:lol :lol
 

bitwise

Banned
* Fitting exclusives from SEGA: Super Monkey Ball 1/2, PSO I,II & III, Sonic Adventure DX/2-Battle/Collection

some of these are not exclusive.
 

Minotauro

Finds Purchase on Dog Nutz
I hope Nintendo goes out of business and Miyamoto has to go work for EA making the next NFL Street in order to pay the bills.
 
radioheadrule83 said:
Warning!

You have entered a Nintendo thread. If you're too bitter to cope with yet another one, head back to the rest of the forum. If you're snapty00 hit reply and get it over with. There will be lots of talk about PS2 and Xbox, and I will glaze over how this generation and the last has gone from my point of view, but if the N word really hurts your eyes, you're going to see it a lot. So run while you still can!

:lol

Thanks for getting that out of the way.
 

lexi

Banned
Some of you guys are too harsh on Radiohead. He's a very well informed and reasonable poster, show a little respect.

Thanks for the read, Radiohead. You should be a Videogame journalist for the sheer fact you can string together cohesive sentences.
 

All Hail C-Webb

Hailing from the Chill-Web
I'm going to read that thing eventually, in the mean time I just wanted to say that "Nintendo rules" would have probably sufficed.
 
I read all of it. A very insightful post. I can't predict where Nintendo will be down the course of next generation, but I can at least hope that they can carve a big enough niche for themselves to provide me with a nice alternative to 'the other guys'' offerings. There are many who are tired of the same old thing and yearn for something a little different. I know I do. Maybe this 'Revolution' thing might do it. Hey, the last 3 consoles I've supported(Saturn, Dreamcast, Gamecube) were always the least trendy of the bunch. Nothing's to stop me from supporting the big 'N' the next time around.
 

GG-Duo

Member
lockii said:
Some of you guys are too harsh on Radiohead. He's a very well informed and reasonable poster, show a little respect.

Thanks for the read, Radiohead. You should be a Videogame journalist for the sheer fact you can string together cohesive sentences.

I agree (I don't know about the journalist comment) , even though I only read a few paragraphs.

Is it just me, or GAF getting more cynical, backlash-happy, and smug over the last little while? We used to have a lot of long posts in the gaming forum.

I mean, just look at this thread. Yeesh.
 

GamerDiva

Banned
You guys are being meanies! ;) I read the whole thing and thought that it made a lot of sense but then I went back to playing my PS2. :)
 

Dragmire

Member
It was a very well-written editorial, but not very insightful, IMO. It just kind of gleams over Nintendo's challenges and how they've faced them, but without any kind of stance on the matter or solution. I'd prefer to discuss what they could do next gen to effectively overtake Sony using their revolution philosophy. For one thing, lately I've favored the idea of matching the specs of the other guys head-to-head, if not outdo them, in addition to coming up with those revolutionary ideas. In other words, they need aggression. It will change what everyone thinks of them. I mean, even fans get the idea that Nintendo just doesn't want to compete this gen and therefore they can't.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
I think Nintendo is doing just fine. They're making money, they're expanding thier business with NDS, creating/bringing over more franchises, doing collaborations and moving into the anime business. They're opening up to new things the "old Nintendo" wouldn't have gotten into as much. They don't HAVE to be #1 or be the "winar!1" for us to enjoy they're systems/games. That's like saying one can't enjoy an independant film 'cos it isn't as big/popular as some major Hollywood production.

The truth of the matter is, no matter what they do or whatever possition they're in this industry, some (most?) people are gonna see it as gloom/doom! But that shit doesn't matter, this isn't a popularity contest, this is a business...and as long as they continue to make money like crazy, they're still gonna be around regardless of what forum fanboys/haters, analysts and the mainstream press say.

I think some people are just upset that Nintendo isn't "trying harder" or meeting up to thier "full potential" or whatever. But to me, I think they're doing quite well against two massive juggernaut's despite shooting themselves in the foot with their bad image problems. That's what it all comes down to...Nintendo could be making twice as much money as anyone else out there and people would still piss'n'moan 'cos their popularity level isn't as "cool" as the competition. Let's face it, I don't think Nintendo really ever was "cool"...I remember being into gaming WAY before it was popularized/Hollywoodized/mainstreamized by Sony, back when it was just Nintendo (and Sega), and for the most part it wasn't cool to be a gaming nerd. But now, it's all about the image...video games are "in" these days, but Nintendo was there before it was "cool"!
 

Rahul

Member
Good post Radiohead, thanks for the effort, even though your entire point seems to be "Next gen, Nintendo may do well... or not" :lol
 

XS+

Banned
If you want to play Nintendo games, buy a Nintendo console. That demand, still profitable, will ensure Nintendo maintains a place in this industry. With that said, however, they're no longer a market leader, nor will they be in the foreseeable future. If you want strong third party support, you will not buy a Nintendo console -- Revolution and, I predict, NDS included.
 

Do The Mario

Unconfirmed Member
BTW great post radio head, I think Nintendo will b successful next generation if make some exiting new franchises that can be marketed to adults. They can keep Mario and the gang but I personally would love to see new content.
 

bonesquad

Member
I think that is the bottom line. If you want Mario and Nintendo games, get a Nintendo system. If you want anything else, get something else. The only real question is can Nintendo remain profitable by targeting such a relativly small market?


And as for the statement Nintendo is changing? Bah! They say they are, but I'll believe it when I see it.

"First party published horror game: Eternal Darkness"

And where is Sk now?

And 3rd party support is either leaving Nintendo or at least taking any exclusive games to other platforms. What reason do people have for getting a GC besides the next Mario game these days?
 

XS+

Banned
bonesquad said:
I think that is the bottom line. If you want Mario and Nintendo games, get a Nintendo system. If you want anything else, get something else. The only real question is can Nintendo remain profitable by targeting such a relativly small market?


And as for the statement Nintendo is changing? Bah! They say they are, but I'll believe it when I see it.

"First party published horror game: Eternal Darkness"

And where is Sk now?

And 3rd party support is either leaving Nintendo or at least taking any exclusive games to other platforms. What reason do people have for getting a GC besides the next Mario game these days?

As evidenced by this gen, Nintendo can and will remain profitable -- as a niche company. Their consoles fill a niche. That's Nintendo's new place.
 

lexi

Banned
bonesquad said:
And 3rd party support is either leaving Nintendo or at least taking any exclusive games to other platforms. What reason do people have for getting a GC besides the next Mario game these days?

To be fair, the same could be said about PS2 and GTA. Oh wait, that wouldn't be fair.

*Cues the jarrod-esque lists*

Assuming I don't get a GC for Christmas, I'm going to be picking up one alongside RE4 in Janurary, and I've got Zelda, Fire Emblem, Jungle Beat and Star Fox Assault to look forward to.
 

fugimax

Member
You anti-Nintendo people are nutz. o_O

Who's the only company with a profitable gaming division? Nintendo.

Microsoft and Sony are competing for something 7-8 years down the road that they don't even know is going to be there. They'll continue to lose money until one of them ducks out...meanwhile, Nintendo will be raking in money from its balance of pricing, technology, and games.
 

bonesquad

Member
I don't know. Part of me still wonders if Nintendo can really keep this up (remaining profitable on the console end). Or at the least, I wonder if they did make a few changes if they couldn't be a lot more profitable.

But really the only thing I "worry" about is if Nintendo, based on sales, starts to worry more about pumping out the next Mario related game instead of giving us something like Metroid, Pikmin, or something else new. I see them possibly becoming too narrow in the width of the games they release. Especially since the one dev who was really different (SK, and in some way even the Capcom 5) is gone. We'll see.
 

Triumph

Banned
fugimax said:
You anti-Nintendo people are nutz. o_O

Who's the only company with a profitable gaming division? Nintendo.

Microsoft and Sony are competing for something 7-8 years down the road that they don't even know is going to be there. They'll continue to lose money until one of them ducks out...meanwhile, Nintendo will be raking in money from its balance of pricing, technology, and games.
Jesus H. Fucking Toadstool...

I seriously don't fucking get it. Why oh why do you people feel the need to throw down the profitability argument in these threads every single time?

Let me just say this: if profitibility leads to the kind of stagnation Nintendo is currently experiencing, then I DON'T FUCKING WANT CONSOLE MANUFACTURERS TO BE PROFITABLE.

Fucks sakes. You don't play profits. You play games. If the games are subpar, then who the fuck cares how much money Nintendo makes? I mean, Mario Party 24 and Kirby Air Ride 9 may be profitable, but I garauntee you they'll suck.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Good effort, radiohead. The end point, though, is a bit vague. Do you or do you not think Nintendo is doomed? I'm getting a vague "No, they're not doomed... but they probably will continue to not change dramatically enough to enter first place again next gen. But they will still be profitable!" vibe from you.
 
Raoul Duke said:
I seriously don't fucking get it. Why oh why do you people feel the need to throw down the profitability argument in these threads every single time?

Let me just say this: if profitibility leads to the kind of stagnation Nintendo is currently experiencing, then I DON'T FUCKING WANT CONSOLE MANUFACTURERS TO BE PROFITABLE.

Fucks sakes. You don't play profits. You play games. If the games are subpar, then who the fuck cares how much money Nintendo makes? I mean, Mario Party 24 and Kirby Air Ride 9 may be profitable, but I garauntee you they'll suck.

Play the stock market by buying shares in Nintendo? Besides, if your last statement becomes true, the middle one does.

The first paragraph...well...cuz they're right, maybe? I'd play a hand if it was a 4-of-a-kind like that.
 
Raoul Duke said:
Jesus H. Fucking Toadstool...

I seriously don't fucking get it. Why oh why do you people feel the need to throw down the profitability argument in these threads every single time?

Let me just say this: if profitibility leads to the kind of stagnation Nintendo is currently experiencing, then I DON'T FUCKING WANT CONSOLE MANUFACTURERS TO BE PROFITABLE.

Fucks sakes. You don't play profits. You play games. If the games are subpar, then who the fuck cares how much money Nintendo makes? I mean, Mario Party 24 and Kirby Air Ride 9 may be profitable, but I garauntee you they'll suck.

miyamotoloaded7ol.jpg
 
I wouldn't normally read a post that long but I managed to and it was quite a nice summary of what Nintendo has done over the last 8 years or so.

Nfans always go on about how profitable Nintendo is but the fact of the matter is that they are selling less and less systems and software since the N64. Their image and ppl's perception of them are really negative and ppl don't take them seriously anymore.

I live in Australia. Now it's a pretty insiginificant market compared to the big 3 (US, Japan and Europe) but Nintendo here is like Xbox in Japan. Retailers stock less then 5% of the games available for the system, there is no advertising in catelogues for it anymore, many retailers have discontinued or are "phasing out" the system, and new games that become available are immediately discontinued once the initial shipment arrives. The perception of Nintendo in Australia is just awful especially compared to the N64 days. The N64 was never the most popular but was much like the Xbox is the PS2 today in that it offered a very good alternative to the most popular system.

I'm honestly really worried about the future of Nintendo's home consoles. The haters go on about "us" wanting them to be number one again. While I would like this to happen I know it's simply not realistic. What I want is for them to be competitive and more successful and not continue to fade away into a soon-to-be-gone niche.

NOTE: You bastards at the top of this thread are harsh bitches. I looked who posted them and was not at all suprised. I think the only Nintendo basher that hasn't posted is snapty00. The pictures are funny though...
 
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