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[SolVanderlyn]

Don't worry, I doubt we'll get to see a TES game in Kirkbride's expanded universe. I think C0da might just be the point where his work and that of the writers at Bethesda split off.

It did inspire me to go back and reread some of the stuff hidden in the lore. For instance, the Thalmor banning the worship of Talos, while technically a new concept (and one people are glad to bring up when they try to defend the Stormcloaks), is just a continuation of things that were happening long before Man even walked on Nirn. As with everything TES, it all comes back to Lorkhan. Talos is nothing more than an aspect of Lorkhan, and he was much more than just Tiber Septim while mortal. Talos represents several beings, which all had a connection to Lorkhan. Lorkhan being, of course, the god who set in motion the creation of Nirn, and the eventual entrapment of the Et'Ada, which would lead to them becoming mortals. Lorkhan has always been the mortal's god, and when Auri-El ripped out his heart, speared it on an arrow and sent it flying across Tamriel, that just became more evident.

The Elves despise Lorkhan for their mortality. The ironic thing is this: there's no sign that Elves, even the Aldmer, were ever immortal. They were once spirits, true, but so was everything on Tamriel's surface. Some of those Et'Ada became the laws of nature. Others evolved into the mortal beings that now dwell Tamriel. In a way, the Thalmor should be supportive of Talos worship, since the beings he's comprised of were mortal, just as them, and proved that ascension was possible. And yet they cling to this belief that the worship of Talos (and, by extension, Lorkhan) has to be quelled.

Why? Lorkhan. Shezarr. Shor. Call him what you will. His heart, wherever it may be located now, is the beating heart of Nirn. It's one of the things, along with the towers, that keep the world anchored where it is. The Thalmor, obviously, want to unbind this, so they go back to a state of timelessness, formlessness, and, in effect, deathlessness. If you recall, the Crystal Tower on the Summerset Isle was destroyed during the Oblivion Crisis. It's said that the Daedra were responsible for that, but were they really? The Thalmor were already trying to advance their goals during that time, they were just a fringe political party. It wouldn't be completely insane to think that they'd want to topple the one thing on Alinor that represented everything they wanted to undo, would it?

And that's why they want worship of Talos banned, as well. Because of his connection to Lorkhan, the missing god. You can be damn sure the Thalmor will be actively searching for the Heart of Lorkhan as well, so I'm positive they have a presence on mainland Morrowind (and Vvardenfell) as well, as that is where the heart was last seen. They also almost managed to topple the White-Gold Tower in Cyrodiil, but were driven back during the Battle of the Red Ring. Levelling the tower, and the city with it, will definitely be up there on their 'to do'-list once they get back into full-scale war. It's why they wouldn't let go of Hammerfell, either: they probably wanted a base of operations close to the Direnni Tower in the Illiac Bay. And then there's the Throat of the World, though what their plans are with that remains to be seen.

What I'm trying to say is this: the Thalmor really are the greatest threat out there right now. Alduin has been vanquished, so the end of this kalpa has been indefinitely postponed. They've managed to trap the Imperials and the Nords in a stupid, useless war. Humans, beast races and dunmer are divided. The Empire is barely holding together, the Redguards are in an uneasy detente, the Stormcloaks are crying liberty (which, when you take the above into account, is just fucking stupid), the Dunmer and the Argonians have ripped themselves from the yoke of the Empire and gone to war as well: it's no wonder the Thalmor have gotten as powerful as they did.

I see people who want to know the resolution of the civil war in Skyrim. They probably never will. By the time the next game is set, whatever choice you made will be rendered irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The Emperor's death is probably the most important thing in that game, lore-wise. I'm guessing it'll be the death blow for the Empire, finally splintering and leaving only war and turmoil in its wake. But, maybe the races of Tamriel will wisen up and remember the threat they've got eying them in the west. Maybe.

Tl;dr: Thalmor real bad, yo.

This is a great post. It's also caused another rift to open up with Kirkbride's writing for me, personally, because

Spoiler

according to him the Thalmor "win in the end", which does not sit well with me at all.

 

[Blue Ninja]

This is a great post. It's also caused another rift to open up with Kirkbride's writing for me, personally, because

Spoiler

according to him the Thalmor "win in the end", which does not sit well with me at all.

In theory, he's right, but not neccesarily in the strictest sense of the word. The Thalmor want a return to the original state of things, when this kalpa was just beginning. They also want to become immortal again, to regain their ethereal forms. There's a theory that, when a kalpa ends, mortals of that kalpa become divine during the next.

Alduin was defeated, so the end of this kalpa has been postponed indefinitely. Some say it's been cancelled permanently, and that Nirn and Tamriel as we know it are the last iterations of creation. Bethesda gave themselves an out at the end of Skyrim's main quest: Alduin was slain, but his soul wasn't absorbed. In what is pretty much an allusion to the Norse Ragnarok, the Greybeards say that maybe he's destined to return at the end of times. Which would mean that an end of the world is still coming.

Once that day comes, and the world literally ends when Alduin fulfills his destiny and eats it, the Thalmor would, in theory, have won. I say in theory, because the likelihood of Alduin devouring the world and that being the end for everyone on it, is just as great.

 

[Dead Man]

In theory, he's right, but not neccesarily in the strictest sense of the word. The Thalmor want a return to the original state of things, when this kalpa was just beginning. They also want to become immortal again, to regain their ethereal forms. There's a theory that, when a kalpa ends, mortals of that kalpa become divine during the next.

Alduin was defeated, so the end of this kalpa has been postponed indefinitely. Some say it's been cancelled permanently, and that Nirn and Tamriel as we know it are the last iterations of creation. Bethesda gave themselves an out at the end of Skyrim's main quest: Alduin was slain, but his soul wasn't absorbed. In what is pretty much an allusion to the Norse Ragnarok, the Greybeards say that maybe he's destined to return at the end of times. Which would mean that an end of the world is still coming.

Once that day comes, and the world literally ends when Alduin fulfills his destiny and eats it, the Thalmor would, in theory, have won. I say in theory, because the likelihood of Alduin devouring the world and that being the end for everyone on it, is just as great.

What worries me a bit is that by numbered game 5 we seem very close to the end of the world in a cataclysmic fashion, given their happiness to jump forward quite a bit. I think I may be losing interest in the stories since all the stuff that interests me is lore that is from earlier times or ages. Probably just worrying for nothing, I know.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

What worries me a bit is that by numbered game 5 we seem very close to the end of the world in a cataclysmic fashion, given their happiness to jump forward quite a bit. I think I may be losing interest in the stories since all the stuff that interests me is lore that is from earlier times or ages. Probably just worrying for nothing, I know.

Well, ESO takes place in the second era, so the possibility of prequels can't be ruled out. ESVI could take place in the first era, for all we know.

 

[Dead Man]

Well, ESO takes place in the second era, so the possibility of prequels can't be ruled out. ESVI could take place in the first era, for all we know.

I would love some second era mainline games. I don't think they have ever ruled out going back in time have they?

 

[Blue Ninja]

I would love some second era mainline games. I don't think they have ever ruled out going back in time have they?

Nope, they haven't. It's perfectly possible for them to do so.

In fact, in a lot of ways, Skyrim represents an "ending": it ties the events from Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion together into one story thread: the Prophecy of the Dragonborn.

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world
When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped
When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles
When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls
When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding
The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

The first line refers to Arena, and how the Staff of Chaos was sundered into eight pieces, which were hidden all over Tamriel.
The second refers to the Numidium and the Dragon Break.
The third obviously refers to the Tribunal and Red Mountain erupting.
The fourth is pretty clearly the events of Oblivion and the Great War.
The fifth is a reference to the Civil War in Skyrim.
And the last is the events of Skyrim.

So in a lot of ways, the events of Skyrim were supposed to be the end of the world. The Wheel turned upon the Last Dragonborn, and in so doing, was saved. So this big "thread" of story could be considered finished, leaving them free to go to other time periods if they so choose.

That said, I'd still like to see a resolution to the conflict with the Thalmor.

 

[120v]

can somebody explain to me as if i'm a child about numidium and the disappearance of the dwemer? i've been reading about it for awhile now and still don't really grasp what exactly happened

 

[Blue Ninja]

can somebody explain to me as if i'm a child about numidium and the disappearance of the dwemer? i've been reading about it for awhile now and still don't really grasp what exactly happened

Numidium was a big robot built by the Dwarves. It had the heart of a god inside of it, and when the Dwemer were close to losing their fight with the Chimer, its creator tried manipulating the Heart to defeat the Chimer. Instead, he wiped his race from existence.

There's no real consensus on what exactly happened, either, just a lot of guessing.

If you want a more detailed explanation, read on.

Numidium is a brass contruct made by the Dwemer. It was so powerful the Dwemer regarded it as a god, while the other races regarded it as blasphemy. It was powered by the literal heart of a God: Lorkhan's, which the Dwemer had discovered buried inside the Red Mountain. The existence of the Numidium was one of the main catalysts for the War of the First Council, or the battle between the Chimer and the Dwemer.

During the battle, Nerevar, the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur infiltrated Dumac Dwarf-King's citadel in the Red Mountain. Nerevar and Dumac fought eachother, and both were mortally wounded in the struggle. Another version of the story says that Nerevar slew Dumac, and was then killed by Dagoth Ur or the Tribunal when they witnessed the power of Lorkhan's heart.

Regardless, after Dumac, they encountered Kagrenac, the Chief Architect of the Dwemer and the creator of Numidium. Before they could stop him, Kagrenac, in a last-ditch effort, used his tools on the Heart once more. What follows is unclear, but the effects are undeniable: the Dwemer disappeared. They vanished. One moment they were fighting on the slopes of Vvardenfell, and the next they were gone. The rest of the story goes on: the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur fought over the Heart, the Tribunal tapped into the heart's power, and the Chimer were cursed by Azura, turning them into the Dunmer we know.

But what happened to the Dwemer precisely? We meet a Deep Elf in Morrowind, who survived the cataclysm because he was in an alternate plane at the time. He doesn't have a clue what happened, either, but he theorized Kagrenac struck a dischord in his manipulation of the heart, and him and his entire race were wiped from existence because of it. He wrote himself - and his race - out of reality, by accident.

Some theorize the Dwemer were displaced, that Kagrenac knew what he was doing and, seeing the Dwemer's imminent defeat, transported all of them to another realm. The fact that no one has met a Dwemer since then kinda disproves that theory.

Others think the Dwemer succeeded in the very thing the Aldmeri Dominion has been attempting to do for so long: become divine again. They believe that by tapping into the Heart, the Dwemer lost their corporeal forms and immediately ascended through the Numidium. An alternate version of this theory guesses that the Dwemer's spirits were literally sucked into Numidium, where they were combined. Numidium was a god, and thus, the Dwemer became divine.

The Tribunal recovered the Numidium and kept it around for a long time, until Tiber Septim's Empire came knocking. In the Armistice agreement, the Tribunal agreed to give the Numidium to Talos, who used it to conquer the rest of Tamriel. It was no longer powered by Lorkhan's heart at the time, but by the Mantella: a soul gem containing the spirit of an aspect of Lorkhan (Wulfharth, in this case, if I'm not mistaken). Eventually the Mantella was destroyed by the Underking, and the Numidium with it. Its pieces were lost, as was the Totem Talos used to control it. Those were eventually found again in Daggerfall, leading to the Dragon Break.

During Morrowind, Dagoth Ur, who had risen to power again, tried to build a second Numidium he called Akulahkan. Ur was defeated by the Nerevarine before he could finish his work, and Akulahkan, as well as the Heart, were destroyed.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

http://c0da.es/

comic book?

Can someone explain what C0DA is in the most laymen of terms? I don't even get that site. One of the sketches looks like a SPARTAN from Halo. From what little I heard recently, it sounds like silly fanfiction.

Also, I wanna know about the Towers as in what are they capable of doing?

 

[XT Vengeance]

Pretty sure Todd Howard said the MMO will exist on a separate canon than the mainline series.

He did say that. The MMO is entirely separate. Which is what allows me to enjoy it without getting furious every time i see something shitting on lore.

 

[Soodanim]

Forgive me if this has been covered, but which games are recommended for lore? I plan to play 3 through 5, but I've heard that some of the older ones aren't the best mechanically so if there are games that don't really bother too much I'll skip them.

Edit: Thanks Blue Ninja

 

[Blue Ninja]

Forgive me if this has been covered, but which games are recommended for lore? I plan to play 3 through 5, but I've heard that some of the older ones aren't the best mechanically so if there are games that don't really bother too much I'll skip them.

The lore in Arena and Daggerfall isn't all that important: the most important things, like the Simulacrum and the Warp in the West, are covered in books you can find in later games. I think Redguard gets referenced a couple of times, but it's not really required playing. I'd stick to Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Those three have the most connections, story-wise, but it's still very minimal.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

He did say that. The MMO is entirely separate. Which is what allows me to enjoy it without getting furious every time i see something shitting on lore.

No, he didn't quite say that. This is what he said.

"They’re making an Elder Scrolls MMO and that is 100% unrelated to the single-player series."

That doesn't necessarily imply it is non-canon just that Bethesda will continue its work on the SP games while Zenimax does the MMO. Since they've worked a lot of lore into TESO and keeping an overall decent job with it, they're speaking more on development issues.