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[Esch]

That Kirkbride AMA makes me kinda sad, the part about him saying Akavir writing is a wrap. It's so interesting!

IF we do have a summerset isles game, we absolutely need to make the mages guild quest joining the Psijic Order on Artaeum. Yes. Yes. Yes.

They need to start adding factions that don't directly address one portion of a playstyle. The civil war and Bards College were good ideas, but I need moar.

Also,

This is a good map.

 

[Reyne]

So if the we go by that map then the isle which the imperial city sits on is actually like 50 miles wide? Imagine that. With VI we need to go back to Daggerfall style of properly representing Tamriels true size.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

So if the we go by that map then the isle which the imperial city sits on is actually like 50 miles wide? Imagine that. With VI we need to go back to Daggerfall style of properly representing Tamriels true size.

It really is a challenge for world designers. You can make a massive world that is mostly empty or condense everything to unrealistic proportions.

 

[Rei no Otaku]

Elves were never mortal, but yeah, the Thalmor essentially wish to destroy Mundus and become gods. Their goal is interestingly similar to that of the Dwemer, and I could imagine their fate being the same.

Elves are immortal? I thought they just lived a long time.

 

[Deified Data]

Elves are immortal? I thought they just lived a long time.

I was of the impression that they were immortal, and the Thalmor resent men and other mortal races because they "quickened" their blood and made them mortal.

 

[Blue Ninja]

That Kirkbride AMA makes me kinda sad, the part about him saying Akavir writing is a wrap. It's so interesting!

IF we do have a summerset isles game, we absolutely need to make the mages guild quest joining the Psijic Order on Artaeum. Yes. Yes. Yes..

As long as you can't also join the Fighters Guild, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood in the same playthrough. Being able to be everything is so unrealistic and so, so lame. Put some Morrowind-style skill caps in there to encourage people to play longer.

I was of the impression that they were immortal, and the Thalmor resent men and other mortal races because they "quickened" their blood and made them mortal.

How I understand it, it shouldn't be taken so literally. Before the Dragon broke, time was flowing in every direction at once. The Et'Ada, the original spirits, were immortal, but they were tricked by Lorkan into giving up their immortality when Mundus was created. These Et'Ada became the Ehlnofey, and, eventually, the Aldmer (and the human races, too). The Mer see their loss of immortality as a curse, whereas the human races don't. This is also why they're so hostile when it comes to Lorkhan, "The Mortal's God", and Talos, a mortal who ascended to godhood.

Then there are those who believe Talos, Tiber Septim, was an avatar of Lorkhan, a so-called Shezarrine, and that Talos (the divine) is thus an aspect of Lorkhan.

 

[Esch]

As long as you can't also join the Fighters Guild, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood in the same playthrough. Being able to be everything is so unrealistic and so, so lame. Put some Morrowind-style skill caps in there to encourage people to play longer.

If so, they have to expand the amount of content in each guild by 4 or 5 times. I can finish a single guild in a night.

 

[SeventhSon]

As long as you can't also join the Fighters Guild, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood in the same playthrough. Being able to be everything is so unrealistic and so, so lame. Put some Morrowind-style skill caps in there to encourage people to play longer.

Not just skill requirements, but make the guilds hostile like in Morrowind. While using a guide is it possible to become guild master of everything, a normal player won't be able to because advancement often requires killing of high ranked NPCs of the other guilds.

 

[Deified Data]

Not just skill requirements, but make the guilds hostile like in Morrowind. While using a guide is it possible to become guild master of everything, a normal player won't be able to because advancement often requires killing of high ranked NPCs of the other guilds.

That really was handled perfectly. No one telling you that you can't be master of every guild if you want but reality is going to come and smack you in the face. "Sure you can advance in every guild, but you're going to end up antagonizing some of them. Problem?"

 

[Blue Ninja]

Not just skill requirements, but make the guilds hostile like in Morrowind. While using a guide is it possible to become guild master of everything, a normal player won't be able to because advancement often requires killing of high ranked NPCs of the other guilds.

I'm not such a big fan of this one, since I like to think that the events in the game all happen, just not done by the same character. It's already tough to do that in Skyrim, when the Dark Brotherhood could easily be destroyed (and the Emperor alive), but at least in that case they kinda covered themselves in canon-wise, by destroying most of the Brotherhood regardless of your choice.

 

[Reyne]

I'm not such a big fan of this one, since I like to think that the events in the game all happen, just not done by the same character. It's already tough to do that in Skyrim, when the Dark Brotherhood could easily be destroyed (and the Emperor alive), but at least in that case they kinda covered themselves in canon-wise, by destroying most of the Brotherhood regardless of your choice.

Dragon Break to the rescue!

 

[Deified Data]

"The Thalmor came and wiped everyone out" will basically be the story used to reconcile every disparate storyline in Skyrim, notably the civil war.

 

[Granadier]

"The Thalmor came and wiped everyone out" will basically be the story used to reconcile every disparate storyline in Skyrim, notably the civil war.

"One lone survivor though was able to brutally murder all of the Thalmor at once. He will forever be known as the Murderborn."

 

[LowerLevel]

Spoiler

Woot, ban lifted!

Great thread, Op! On a similar note, I slaughter every Thalmor I see while playing Skyrim so I hope Micheal K is just joshing us... (bloody Altmer).

 

[Blue Ninja]

Do keep in mind that Kirkbride isn't working at Bethesda anymore, so not everything he said is pure canon, at least not officially.

I'm interested to see how it'll all play out, though.

 

[Valhelm]

Elves are immortal? I thought they just lived a long time.

Whoops, my mistake. I meant to say, "Elves were never immortal". Their ancestors, the Ehlnofey, were descended from immortal beings, but weren't immortal themselves.

Do keep in mind that Kirkbride isn't working at Bethesda anymore, so not everything he said is pure canon, at least not officially.

I'm interested to see how it'll all play out, though.

He hasn't been working at Bethesda since 2002. However, he's been brought on as a contract writer for Oblivion and Skyrim, and seems to have had some involvement in Online as well.

 

[Blue Ninja]

He hasn't been working at Bethesda since 2002. However, he's been brought on as a contract writer for Oblivion and Skyrim, and seems to have had some involvement in Online as well.

All true. The stuff he says usually turns out to be correct, but the way he says things can usually mean a lot.

Regardless, bring on Elder Scrolls VI: Dominion.

 

[doemaaan]

I'm fairly new to all TES Lore, Skyrim being the only game in the franchise I've ever played. I tried Oblivion twice, but apparently, it's not meant to be. Tried the game years ago when I bought it on Black Friday and after 30 minutes of playing, I got bored (totally unfair of me, I know). Then, I borrowed it from my cousin last year (who lent me Skyrim prior to that) and the game froze TWICE on me during that beginning prison break-out sequence. That couldn't have been a good sign, so instead of risking a playthrough filled with frustration, I'll just wait until I buy a Steam Machine this year and get it on a gaming pc... Right now, I play my games on a PS3.

Anyway, this is one thing that's been bugging me. What's up with the scale of these other continents (Yokuda specifically)?

Before this thread, I didn't even know other continents were placed on the world map. Come to think of it, I didn't even know what the world was called! All I'd heard is that the books in these games, spoke of distant lands with races not yet discovered (which sounds friggen Awesome). I REALLY want to believe that Yokuda is another humungous continent (like in the first image), but these maps tell different stories. Also, the "Yokuda" in the 2nd image doesn't look like the "Yokuda" from the first image at all. =/

 

[Blue Ninja]

I'm fairly new to all TES Lore, Skyrim being the only game in the franchise I've ever played. I tried Oblivion twice, but apparently, it's not meant to be. Tried the game years ago when I bought it on Black Friday and after 30 minutes of playing, I got bored (totally unfair of me, I know). Then, I borrowed it from my cousin last year (who lent me Skyrim prior to that) and the game froze TWICE on me during that beginning prison break-out sequence. That couldn't have been a good sign, so instead of risking a playthrough filled with frustration, I'll just wait until I buy a Steam Machine this year and get it on a gaming pc... Right now, I play my games on a PS3.

Anyway, this is one thing that's been bugging me. What's up with the scale of these other continents (Yokuda specifically)?



Before this thread, I didn't even know other continents were placed on the world map. Come to think of it, I didn't even know what the world was called! All I'd heard is that the books in these games, spoke of distant lands with races not yet discovered (which sounds friggen Awesome). I REALLY want to believe that Yokuda is another humungous continent (like in the first image), but these maps tell different stories. Also, the "Yokuda" in the 2nd image doesn't look like the "Yokuda" from the first image at all. =/

Yokuda, by all accounts, was a pretty small continent. There's one map that's supposed to be official, which apparently was made by someone at Bethesda.

Also, Yokuda is gone. It sank beneath the waves in a huge cataclysm, which prompted the Redguards to come to Tamriel.

There are other continents out there, but they're even less well-documented than Yokuda. Akavir is obviously the most famous, a huge continent to the East, divided into at least nations: the snake-men of Tsaeci, the monkey people of Tang Mo, the snow demons of Kamal and the cat people of Ka'Po'Tun. The Tsaeci have attempted to invade Tamriel at least once, and were driven back, but they left a huge mark on Imperial culture. The leader of the Ka'Po'Tun is named Tosh Raka, and according to legend, he's succeeded in turning himself into a dragon. As is often the case with TES lore, however: don't take it literally.

The northern continent of Atmora is where the Nords (and thus, their Imperial and Breton offspring) come from. Atmora still exists, but it's experienced extreme climate shifts, and has turned into a frozen, uninhabitable wasteland. The Aldmer (ancient elves) originated on the continent Aldmeris, but its existence (and location) is disputed.

 

[GungHo]

Anyway, this is one thing that's been bugging me. What's up with the scale of these other continents (Yokuda specifically)?

Well... as Blue Ninja notes, the maps you are referring to are fanfiction. Well-meaning, but still fanfiction.

However, to interpret the images... the Yokuda in blue in the first image is "Extant". North, South, and Middle Sismeris used to exist, but are now under the ocean, and all that is left is the Yokuda that's still in blue. So, while the scale of the size of the ocean has changed between the maps, the actual representation of what is left of Yokuda has not. Those two fan maps reconcile.

 

[doemaaan]

Also, Yokuda is gone. It sank beneath the waves in a huge cataclysm, which prompted the Redguards to come to Tamriel.

Completely forgot about that... It was either in the OP or one of the links he provided. A lot of info still needs to sink in with me. And from what I've read so far on Akavir, the place sounds... scary. Like, I get the feeling that the denizens over there want to bring forth some type of World War. I think I remember reading something about one of them assassinating one of the Kings in Tamriel in the past. Course', I could be way off on that one. Plus, I have no idea where Akavir stands at this point during the Skyrim timeline. Are they still relevant or not? Idk. Gotta read up on it.

However, to interpret the images... the Yokuda in blue in the first image is "Extant". North, South, and Middle Sismeris used to exist, but are now under the ocean, and all that is left is the Yokuda that's still in blue. So, while the scale of the size of the ocean has changed between the maps, the actual representation of what is left of Yokuda has not. Those two fan maps reconcile.

Wow, I hadn't noticed that before. Hmm... I'm wondering if it's possible to somehow bring the land back up. Like with some sort of magic. but then again, why do that? What would be the point? The bulk of Sinismeris is probably barren land anyway. Before all of that though, I'd like to have a chance to just visit Yokuda first .

 

[Dead Man]

Great thread! Going back a page to the debate about presenting lore in game, I think it is good to keep the detailed stuff as something to be sought out, but since it is a role playing game, facing players to seek out knowledge that seems to be pretty common among NPC's damages the game sometimes I think. Having a simple reference guide included would help, giving the information that most NPC would already have, for instance. If it was fallible or not the true events that would be even better.

 

[Rei no Otaku]

I love how everyone hates the Thalmor. Bethesda did a fantastic job making an entirely unlikable faction.

 

[Esch]

I love how everyone hates the Thalmor. Bethesda did a fantastic job making an entirely unlikable faction.

Nationalist movement based upon the salt of shit that happened a jillion years ago? Fuck em.


Edit: Who's everyone's favorite and least favorite Daedric Princes?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Edit: Who's everyone's favorite and least favorite Daedric Princes?

Favorite is obviously Sheogorath.
Though it helps that he essentially got his own expansion.
(Same with Hermaeus Mora to a lesser extent)

Meridia is just dull.

I love how everyone hates the Thalmor. Bethesda did a fantastic job making an entirely unlikable faction.

Indeed.

 

[Valhelm]

Before this thread, I didn't even know other continents were placed on the world map. Come to think of it, I didn't even know what the world was called! All I'd heard is that the books in these games, spoke of distant lands with races not yet discovered (which sounds friggen Awesome). I REALLY want to believe that Yokuda is another humungous continent (like in the first image), but these maps tell different stories. Also, the "Yokuda" in the 2nd image doesn't look like the "Yokuda" from the first image at all. =/

The second image is from an in-game source, as far as I know, so it shows Yokuda post-flooding. The much larger Yokuda, which is pretty conjectural, is an estimation of what it may have looked like before the waters rose.

 

[Rei no Otaku]

Nationalist movement based upon the salt of shit that happened a jillion years ago? Fuck em.


Edit: Who's everyone's favorite and least favorite Daedric Princes?

I think the thing that annoys me about them the most is that voice. As soon as one of the Thalmor talks to me I just want to punch him in the throat.

My favorite deadric prince is Mora. I love how he always sounds kind of bored and sleepy. Funny story, when Dragonborn came out I tweeted that Mora sounded kind of like Bane from TDKR and Mora's voice actor tweeted me with "I did it first!"

 

[Soyongdori]

I don't know why keep Bethesda mentioning Akavir continent from books from bunch of Elder Scroll games and yet they never try to implement that continent to actual game.

 

[Reyne]

I don't know why keep Bethesda mentioning Akavir continent from books from bunch of Elder Scroll games and yet they never try to implement that continent to actual game.

Same reason the lore is filled with meandering things that has no bearing on what we do in the games. It adds zest and expands the horizons of the world. And besides, it doesn't mean Akavir won't be implemented in the future. Though so far I think there is plenty left of Tamriel to discover.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Part of it is like saying "Why don't they move Fallout to Europe or China?" The Elder Scrolls is about Tamriel. Tamriel's like a focal point on the surface of Nirn, everything gets drawn towards it. (Figuratively speaking, of course)

 

[Sotha Sil]

Part of it is like saying "Why don't they move Fallout to Europe or China?" The Elder Scrolls is about Tamriel. Tamriel's like a focal point on the surface of Nirn, everything gets drawn towards it. (Figuratively speaking, of course)

It's like bringing back the Dwemer: it wouldn't make any sense. A good fantasy needs to leave some things to the imagination. Being a faraway, alien land that we never get to see is is Akavir's very purpose. (And as a result, if they end up showing it, I doubt it will meet our expectations.)

 

[Valhelm]

It's like bringing back the Dwemer: it wouldn't make any sense. A good fantasy needs to leave some things to the imagination. Being a faraway, alien land that we never get to see is is Akavir's very purpose. (And as a result, if they end up showing it, I doubt it will meet our expectations.)

I'm not sure why things should be left to the imagination. I would love more Dwemer exposition, personally, and exploring Akavir could be amazing.

 

[Esch]

Favorite Daedric prince is Clavicus Vile. He reminds me of Rumplestiltskin lol, and I find his sense of humor endearing.

Least favorite is Dagon. He's just evil, not interesting.

I think Meridia is really interesting because she's arguably not evil or menacing in any sense, apart from maintaining her territory.

 

[GungHo]

Nocturnal's avatar has nice boobs. That's about as much skin as I have in the game.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

None of the Daedric Princes, in TESV at least, feel very powerful or menacing at all. They seem too wrapped up in their own shit to do anything worthwhile (now, I haven't played TESIV, I can't downwards adapt to it, even on PC. TESV has totally spoiled me.). Sanguine's and Azura's daedric quests are the only ones that I remember.

 

[Esch]

Well that's because every time you engage with them you know that it will end in a reward. An excellent one. There are no consequences(positive or negative)o avoiding or disobeying or double crossing the daedra. If you mess with Azuras star all she does is send mercenaries after you, I think. Not really a big deal. I like what people said about bringing the games more back to morrowind where reputation and hostility from factions actually matter.

 

[Valhelm]

None of the Daedric Princes, in TESV at least, feel very powerful or menacing at all. They seem too wrapped up in their own shit to do anything worthwhile (now, I haven't played TESIV, I can't downwards adapt to it, even on PC. TESV has totally spoiled me.). Sanguine's and Azura's daedric quests are the only ones that I remember.

I think some of them were pretty great. The ones where you

Spoiler

kill the priest twice and eat human flesh

were awesome. It's a shame that Mehrunes Dagon didn't have a bigger part, given that he is essential Sauron. It would have been awesome to see him as a kind of king lain low by mortals 200 years earlier, still reeling from the Oblivion Crisis.

 

[jakefromstatefarm]

Hot: Hermaus Mora, Namira, Hircine and Sanguine

Not: Nocturnal, Boethiah

 

[stupei]

Nobody wants to see Valenwood? I think they should pull a daggerfall and make the game in Summwrset Isles and Valenwood. I guess nobody cares about the Bosmer, lol. Theyre like the Bretons of humanity.

I actually think the Bosmer are one of the most fascinating things in the game, but most of the interesting things about them are really hidden in lore. Since they seldom use wood themselves, they can't really be your standard Tolkien elf. Like... aren't they more likely making their arrows out of bone? That's kind of awesome.

Valenwood could honestly be amazing, if they were willing to put in the effort to create it as it's described. It's a giant forest but like the central city moves, if I recall correctly, as in the trees that it resides within magically disappear and reappear elsewhere. And several of the cities were built by outsiders -- or using outside wood -- so they're comprised of wooden platforms and intricate homes built high up. A game that combined Valenwood with Elsweyr could be pretty cool.

What's really interesting about the Bosmer -- that's never been portrayed inside the game in any way outside a few references in books -- is the Green Pact and Meat Mandate. They're required to eat everything they kill (including other mer) within three days -- which you think would lead to them being relatively peaceful to avoid painful overeating -- and to never use anything made from plant life that grows within Valenwood. Wouldn't that essentially mean their entire existing recorded history as far as books are concerned is coming from outsiders observing their culture?

Just seems like there's a lot of room for expanding on the lore, and also including something like the Wild Hunt. When Bosmer feel particularly threatened within their homeland and the need is at its greatest, they transform a segment of their village/tribe/whatever back into their "original" state of constantly mutating monsters that devour and destroy everything in their path, but apparently those who participate can never turn back? It sounds kind of awesome yet horrifying and could provide a pretty interesting central conceit.

 

[LastNac]

What is hiding in The Black Marshes? It always struck me as the most mysterious province.

 

[jakefromstatefarm]

A game that combined Valenwood with Elsweyr could be pretty cool.

This is the only way I see Bethesda featuring either province in a numbered title in the series. Both provinces suffer from being dominated by one and two biomes respectively, putting them both in the same game allows for more contrast and less fatigue for the player. I could also see a western portion of Valenwood being playable in a game centering around the Summerset Isles, similar to the inclusion of Solstheim in MW and Skyrim.

 

[Valhelm]

What is hiding in The Black Marshes? It always struck me as the most mysterious province.

Black Marsh is awesome. The deepest reaches are inaccessible to unprotected Men and Mer, because deadly insects can suck you dry. It's effectively ruled by the Hist trees, who have the capability to take control of any Argonian at any time.

Michael Kirkbride says that TESO is going to expand a bit on the Argonians and their culture. Online might have its shortcomings, but I'm excited to get to explore Black Marsh.

 

[Edwardo]

Black Marsh is awesome. The deepest reaches are inaccessible to unprotected Men and Mer, because deadly insects can suck you dry. It's effectively ruled by the Hist trees, who have the capability to take control of any Argonian at any time.

Michael Kirkbride says that TESO is going to expand a bit on the Argonians and their culture. Online might have its shortcomings, but I'm excited to get to explore Black Marsh.

Wow, that's pretty crazy. I love finding out things like that.

 

[LastNac]

Black Marsh is awesome. The deepest reaches are inaccessible to unprotected Men and Mer, because deadly insects can suck you dry. It's effectively ruled by the Hist trees, who have the capability to take control of any Argonian at any time.

Michael Kirkbride says that TESO is going to expand a bit on the Argonians and their culture. Online might have its shortcomings, but I'm excited to get to explore Black Marsh.

Isn't there a prison somewhere in there?

 

[undersakura]

Great thread. Subscribed!

Vivec is one the coolest characters in a videogame. Is he around in ESO?

 

[Deified Data]

Great thread. Subscribed!

Vivec is one the coolest characters in a videogame. Is he around in ESO?

Should be. Don't know if he'll make an appearance or not.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Should be. Don't know if he'll make an appearance or not.

I've heard that Almalexia is bound to show up, since she's leading the Dunmer in the Ebonheart Pact.

Completely forgot about that... It was either in the OP or one of the links he provided. A lot of info still needs to sink in with me. And from what I've read so far on Akavir, the place sounds... scary. Like, I get the feeling that the denizens over there want to bring forth some type of World War. I think I remember reading something about one of them assassinating one of the Kings in Tamriel in the past. Course', I could be way off on that one. Plus, I have no idea where Akavir stands at this point during the Skyrim timeline. Are they still relevant or not? Idk. Gotta read up on it.

One of the Tsaeci, Versidue-Shaie, was one of Reman III's closest advisors. When Reman III was assassinated by the Morag Tong, some believed it was his doing, but whatever the case, Shaie was next in line to rule the Empire, but as Potentate. It was he who ushered in the Second Era, and under his rule, the Empire practically broke apart. It would be that way until Tiber Septim came along to re-unify the land.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I'm not sure why things should be left to the imagination. I would love more Dwemer exposition, personally, and exploring Akavir could be amazing.

Because I believe sometimes a game can't compete with imagination, and the feeling of awe and dread some ancient places/people evoke can be dulled when they're actually shown. But maybe that's a personal thing.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Because I believe sometimes a game can't compete with imagination, and the feeling of awe and dread some ancient places/people evoke can be dulled when they're actually shown. But maybe that's a personal thing.

The way the cities of Cyrodiil were portrayed in the Keynes novels was ten times more interesting than what they could actually do in the games. There's some great stuff in the first parts of the first novel, where a character is walking through the Imperial City's Market district, and the writer just starts describing what's going on. Hundreds of people shopping, little market stands everywhere , some Khajiit doing tricks for money, it sounded so much more awesome than what we had in Oblivion.

 

[LastNac]

Because I believe sometimes a game can't compete with imagination, and the feeling of awe and dread some ancient places/people evoke can be dulled when they're actually shown. But maybe that's a personal thing.

Bro I agree completely.

Sometimes its best just to wonder and never see.