mikefrails
Banned
What is the general consensus on Kotaku?
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The Games Journalism Thread: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
- Thread starter Nirolak
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If Jason didint write it, I don't bother, personally
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Patrick Klepek does some good work too.
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
chaobreaker
Member
I haven't played the game but Laura K explained on her twitter about some concern that the Beginner's Guide stealing content from another developer. I'm not sure about that but she's making a case for that comment on her timeline.
She going to remove that part of the article regardless.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Then don't recommend it. Good on her to remove it, and let's not make this a bigger deal than it is (cause it's not a big deal), but either say "Hey, you should buy this game" or don't. Don't say "Play this game, but don't pay for it".
Edit: Or, alternativels, explain what those "legitimate reasons" are. Don't just tell me there are some.
I reaaaally hope that "other developer" she thinks content is being stolen from is not the fictional developer from the story.
Also, Stephen Totilo. Really, Kotaku is my go-to place for interesting reporting outside of the usual gaming news bubble.
Futurematic
Member
She didn't remove it, by the by, she instead added a large disclaimer about how (tagged because she said this a spoiler)
. Anybody wanna spoil me? Because I assume I can't understand her argument without being properly spoiled, and I would like to grok it.
if it is non-fiction she understands people objecting to paying for stolen goods
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
As I understand it (haven't played the game) there are reasons to think that developer is not fictional?
Again though, haven't played the game and I have only a basic idea what the game is about so.....
WhateverItTakes
Banned
It's because the whole game
is the developer having a conversation with himself using a character (Called Coda) as a manifestation of his creativity, among other things. The game is framed as you exploring Coda's work.
I mean if you fall for it you can have a much better experience (like I did) but it all falls apart if you think about it further.
I have trouble believing this. I'll put it into spoiler tags
The Beginner's Guide tells the story of a developer named "Coda" and the developer of "The Beginner's Guide" Davey Wreden narrates it all. He speaks directly to you and leads you through "Coda's" games, trying to understand "Coda's" state of mind when developing these games and figuring out what kind of person he is.
It all ends with Wreden's realisation that "Coda" doesn't want Wreden to share "his" games, that his games don't tell Wreden anything about him and that Wreden is the one with problems, not "Coda", resulting in an emotional breakdown by Wreden at the end of the game.
However, it is obvious that "Coda" is not a real person and, even though Wreden uses his own name and narrates "The Beginner's Guide" himself, is actually playing a role, too. Everything you see was developed by Wreden, all characters were designed by him - mainly Coda and the narrator, who is also called Wreden. It is all very meta, trying to give you a glimpse into game creation and what a creator does and does not try to convey with his/her creations. This is not a real analysis of a real person. Coda and his games do not exist. It is very possible (and imo even likely) that Coda represents a person Davey knows or has known in real life, or even another side of Wreden himself - but that's it.
It all ends with Wreden's realisation that "Coda" doesn't want Wreden to share "his" games, that his games don't tell Wreden anything about him and that Wreden is the one with problems, not "Coda", resulting in an emotional breakdown by Wreden at the end of the game.
However, it is obvious that "Coda" is not a real person and, even though Wreden uses his own name and narrates "The Beginner's Guide" himself, is actually playing a role, too. Everything you see was developed by Wreden, all characters were designed by him - mainly Coda and the narrator, who is also called Wreden. It is all very meta, trying to give you a glimpse into game creation and what a creator does and does not try to convey with his/her creations. This is not a real analysis of a real person. Coda and his games do not exist. It is very possible (and imo even likely) that Coda represents a person Davey knows or has known in real life, or even another side of Wreden himself - but that's it.
It's like reviewing Fargo and telling your readers to return the movie after watching because if makes fun of real, tragic events.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Huh. See that's stuff I'd like to have explained in such an article. Just saying "there are moral reasons not to pay him" doesn't tell me anything. He could be a Nazi for all I know.
That's really my only problem here, that it isn't (or wasn't) properly explained what the issue is.
chaobreaker
Member
According to her twitter she might make a blog post on her website clarifying why she made that paragraph.
Really, I suggest you check her twitter. She's been making a case for herself for the past 4 hours.
Can't really see how she can make a case though. If you've played the game you pay for it.
If the content really was stolen then I'm sure the original developer would have raised the issue. Telling people to get a refund after completing the game on morality grounds is just wrong in my book.
If the content really was stolen then I'm sure the original developer would have raised the issue. Telling people to get a refund after completing the game on morality grounds is just wrong in my book.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
That's nice and all, but I shouldn't need to check somebody's Twitter to understand something they wrote on a site. Just add a short explanation (tag it as a spoiler if necessary) and let people decide whether it's really a moral problem or not.
Meadow Drone
Member
Agreed with the point regarding refunds, it was absolutely wrong to publish that sentiment, but
it absolutely beggars belief that so many people played through The Beginner's Guide and actually, really, genuinely believed that the game is made from stolen assets from a real-life, non-fictional developer. She says that people really did react to the game that way and I believe her of course, but anybody who does should take it as a lesson learned in naivety and thinking for themselves more.
chaobreaker
Member
She actually did all that on the Destructoid article.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Great. That's really all I ever wanted. She made a mistake (or explained something poorly) and fixed it. Problem solved.
Can't comment how obvious the stuff in the game is/isn't fiction since I didn't play it. I'll probably check it out now though.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Not the worst thing ever or anything, but this article....I dunno. Why?
https://killscreen.com/articles/burn-in-hell-yarny/
It's basically "I haven't played Unravel and I won't but fuck this game for the things it's probably going for"
https://killscreen.com/articles/burn-in-hell-yarny/
It's basically "I haven't played Unravel and I won't but fuck this game for the things it's probably going for"
Neuromancer
Member
Not really journalism but a lazy and stupid editorial from a position of willing ignorance.
Brad Grenz
Member
Fuck you Killscreen.com. I didn't even read your article and I never will cause you make me sick!
Typing dumb stuff: It's easy and free!
Typing dumb stuff: It's easy and free!
Sylverstone14
Member
Kill Screen to me is very hit or miss, and when they miss, they REALLY miss.
Yeah this was all over twitter last night. I.. well.. I dunno what's up with some people. Click baity, "edgy" nonsense.
It's not a good peice and nearly everyone was lambasting it yesterday, plenty of games writers included.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Wow, that's some of the stupidest tripe I've ever read.
There might be a decent point buried under all that, about how some games can be a bit tryhard with "them feels" or sacrificing gameplay for so-called emotions and whatnot, but it's presented in the douchiest, most idiotic ways, and worse, about a game they haven't even played. Just.... SMH
Edit: see, this is how you actually criticize the game properly (after, you know, playing it and engaging with it honestly and in good faith): http://www.thejimquisition.com/2016/02/unravel-review/
CertifiedFP
Member
"Atlas Reactor is XCOM With Simultaneous Turns" -Gamespot
"Atlas Reactor is Dota meets XCOM, and it's fantastic" -Polygon
"Atlas Reactor alpha sneak peek runs for a week starting on Thursday, get your taste of XCOM Dota" -PCGamesN
If this isn't a blatant sign of money changing hands and games journalism acting as a publisher's marketing arm instead of being journalists, then I don't know what is. Stuff like these articles are the telltale sign of a specific marketing script being handed to publications for them to regurgitate.
Kudos to PCGamer for explicitly saying to not compare Atlas Reactor to XCOM.
"Atlas Reactor is Dota meets XCOM, and it's fantastic" -Polygon
"Atlas Reactor alpha sneak peek runs for a week starting on Thursday, get your taste of XCOM Dota" -PCGamesN
If this isn't a blatant sign of money changing hands and games journalism acting as a publisher's marketing arm instead of being journalists, then I don't know what is. Stuff like these articles are the telltale sign of a specific marketing script being handed to publications for them to regurgitate.
Kudos to PCGamer for explicitly saying to not compare Atlas Reactor to XCOM.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Thats actually normal. If the publisher sends you a review copy, we always got a small "book" with all the information about the game and also some "terms" you can use in your review.
Yeah, this is pretty normal for any kind of review/copy-writing. Depending on the reasoning for the preview, you aren't always given mandatory info--and it's mostly used for the companies SEO as opposed to anything truly insidious--but it's usually like...
"A few key terms you might want to use are: <Insert words here>."
That's more or less how every industry that has preview coverage works. If it's a review that's supposed to influence a purchasing decision it's one thing, but these specific examples are preview coverage and those are almost always going to be extensions of the marketing arm.
I fail to see what your actual issue with this is. What kind of "journalism" that's based on preview coverage wouldn't include some key terms or ideas?
Or, you know, the game actually feels like Xcom meets DOTA and several people think that.
It's not a sign of money changing hands at all - but rather some PR line that whoever wrote the piece thought they would use.
Lazy? Yes. Shady? Not really.
Games journalism is not a part of the marketing arm for the games industry. This is ridiculous.
I'm glad Kotaku has mostly done away with PR previews.
We didn't say it was?
Using any PR lines for an article isn't just lazy, but downright wrong. Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I do think its shady whenever a journalist uses PR-speak instead of actually using their brain cells. It shows a lack of integrity.
More_Badass
Member
"Being honest and having strong moral principles"
I'm not seeing the correlation between integrity and paraphrasing info from a press release.
Not a lot of honesty in journalism if you just regurgitate what you're given by a PR flack. I mean, I could go directly to the company for that info. No idea if its trustworthy or not. It makes the entire preview suspect.
More_Badass
Member
How else do you get info on games if not from developer sites, press releases, development blogs, etc.?
Basically, you can only write about the information at hand. It's not dishonesty; it's gathering information from the sources you have access too. That's how previews work if you're writing about an upcoming game and haven't played it yet
And most of these previews are hands-on impressions, so unless you think the writers are lying about liking the game, what's the inherent dishonesty going on here?
APZonerunner
Member
This just means that they very likely all went to the same preview event, all saw the same presentation, and came away from it all thinking that the point that it was like XCOM-meets-DOTA in the presentation was a strong one.
Like, the format of most hands-on events is a presentation from a high ranking member of the dev team for 30 minutes to an hour, then hands-on time. However, the presentation is used by the devs and PR to shape your expectations for what you'll see, and when you see commonalities in previews like this it just means one of those talking points has been particularly impactful or resonated with them enough that they all used it.
I doubt if they came out of the hands-on thinking it was a bullshit claim they'd write it, in fairness. The chance they all came to that same conclusion alone is unlikely, but what probably happened is that comparison was made in a group presentation before their hands-on. They noted it down, because that's their damn job. After the hands-on, they thought "Huh, that claim was right. And it's a good short-hand to describe the game. I'll use it." One of the most common things in presentations is them explaining what their game is 'like' from the AAA space, especially for indies.
It's when they use the same wording for everything. Those three articles are great examples of how PR-speak influences journalists and ultimately helps market the game just the way that PR wants. I understand that there's a balance here, but since previews are all so controlled by PR anyway, it's all moot.
I didn't attend any Atlas Reactor preview events, but it's not uncommon for video game story headlines to use known quantities as shorthand to help people understand how a game plays or to lure in a large audience.
More_Badass
Member
Again, why is that a problem? If everyone is drawing their info from the same source and were presented the same demo, well yeah, the descriptions are going to be similar. That just...makes sense
You know, like when some interesting indie
games is revealed and five different sites use the same press kit and trailer to do a preview?
Because a lack of creativity or originality in the wording tells me that they didn't have any original thoughts about the game. Repeating PR words and phrases is just advertising in another guise. Similar to the way that those Hillary Clinton PR emails revealed that certain journalists were pushed to use the word "muscular" to describe her speech or draw attention to certain people in the audience, the level of manipulation of the press at preview events is too much for me.
Then, again, that's lazy journalism rather than anything underhand and is indicative of a problem across all forms of journalism.
It's also a sign that the PR team are doing a fantastic job at controlling the story and coverage.
Fair enough. I'm just fed up with it.
What do you think they could have done instead? They have a limited source of information, they can only tell you what they have been told or experienced going outside of that is nothing but guesswork and conjecture and has no place in an article of this type, which is to inform readers of facts, or what at least is presented to them as fact.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
In this regard, I actually prefer when a site straight up does a copy and paste of the press release with maybe a "PR speak below" at the top. Leave actual conversation to a gameplay video of an early build later on or some sort of article speculating based on the information available while bringing anything else relative to the current state of the genre, series, platform.
I'd say do away with previews altogether and report on the game once it is out and can be played.
More_Badass
Member
Do you feel the same about previews for any other mediums? Articles about movie trailers, about upcoming books and tv shows, etc.? Or are only game previews suspect?
It's all pretty suspect, but with game previews there's a lot more "controlled" aspects to it. With movies and tv shows, you can watch it at home on your computer and make your own conclusions and most articles about these things are subjective and usually state facts like when the movie is coming out, who stars, etc. With games, we have no access other than videos carefully curated. Sometimes we get to see a journalist play through the game. But it's all so fake and careful and smoke and mirrors.
It's not just a games issue for sure, but that's not an excuse.
More_Badass
Member
Well depends on the game of course. What you describe mainly only applies to AAA. For many indie games, most sites only have a trailer, press kit, and development blog to go on (so basically the same as reporting on movies but more transparent and informative.) Plus many indie games have free alphas/betas. demos, prototypes publicly available
Let's be honestly, if you're revealing your game for the first time for the millions of people of the internet to learn about, well yeah, you're going to want to be careful and put your best foot forward
There's a difference between developers trying to force a certain perspective about a broken and bad game through manipulative means and developers showing off their game for the first time in the best possible light
Personally I feel your perspective is kind of cynical and jaded