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[TheLaughingStock]

They should've worked towards abolishing the corporate tax or made the tax cut bigger to supercharge the economy.

Who would use the tax windfall to invest more in their companies?

Cohn might have thought the question rhetorical. Only a few days before, during a television appearance, he had said, “We believe that we’re going to have a very stimulative effect on the economy by lowering the business tax rate, by lowering the corporate rate, and making America competitive with the rest of the world.” Except the response from the impromptu focus group at the Journal event was muted; only a smattering of the assembly’s members indicated they would use the proceeds from a tax cut in a way that would produce a stimulative effect.

“Why aren’t the other hands up?” Cohn asked.

Here’s one answer: Cohn and others in the Trump administration might have oversold the potential benefits of their tax plan. One big reason that the legislation won’t supercharge the economy is that the tax cut isn’t as big as it looks on paper.

Under the latest version of the bill — a compromise worked out between negotiators from the House and Senate — the federal corporate rate would reportedly drop from 35 percent to 21 percent, according to the Washington Post and several other news outlets. (When state levies are included, the U.S. statutory corporate tax rate averages to 39 percent, the highest in the Group of 20.) But thanks to a bevy of deductions, few American corporations actually pay 39 or even 35 percent. Estimates vary, but Kent Smetters, the Wharton School professor who runs the Penn Wharton Budget Model, said in an interview that he reckons the average effective rate that U.S. corporations pay is around 22 percent.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-gops-corporate-tax-cut-may-not-be-as-big-as-it-looks/

 

[sleepnaught]

And in a few years, individual tax breaks expire and the middle class has it's taxes raised. Sweet tax bill, Trump.

 

[Naudi]

Breaking news trump is a fucking idiot.

 

[Robot Carnival]

Breaking news trump is a fucking idiot. and most Republicans are fucking scumbags.

FTFY

 

[PataHikari]

Corporate tax cuts won't do anything to stimulate the economy because the profits will just be pocketed and thrown into the massive money pile.

Raise corporate taxes, start funneling those wasted profits into making peoples lives better.

 

[rokkerkory]

How big will deficit get with additional cuts?

 

[PataHikari]

How big will deficit get with additional cuts?

Nobody cares about the deficit now that Republicans are in charge.

 

[rokkerkory]

Nobody cares about the deficit now that Republicans are in charge.

exactly my point, my how the times have changed

 

[TheLaughingStock]

​

How big will deficit get with additional cuts?

It would depend on future changes to the law, automatic stabilizers, Federal Reserve action, market forces, etc.

At the moment, the deficit is estimated to be $666 billion for FY 2017 so it would probably be in the $1T ballpark if Democrats and Republicans get the additional stuff they want to get the US economy back on the right track.

In any event, it's a shame the GOP dropped the ball on tax reform because they lacked ambition.

 

[ThisGuy]

And small businesses get ate up by taxes.

 

[RiccochetJ]

And small businesses get ate up by taxes.

How so? I was talking to my brother who has his own business of 3 employees and he said this will be huge for him and they will be able to grow faster and get their employees a nice raise and healthcare which is something they couldn't afford previously.

On a different note, (and not directed at you ThisGuy) but I really dislike the buzzword supercharge. If you use it without following it up with any sort of substance, I immediately assume you have no idea what the hell you're talking about and are just regurgitating talking points that you're blindly following.

 

[Narroo]

​

It would depend on future changes to the law, automatic stabilizers, Federal Reserve action, market forces, etc.

At the moment, the deficit is estimated to be $666 billion for FY 2017 so it would probably be in the $1T ballpark if Democrats and Republicans get the additional stuff they want to get the US economy back on the right track.

In any event, it's a shame the GOP dropped the ball on tax reform because they lacked ambition.

It's already a 9 point drop on the official tax rate, which already has loop holes. How much lower does it need to go before companies 'magically' start hiring more people or paying higher wages?

 

[ThreePiMatt]

If the corporate tax rate dropped to zero and business all got a bunch more money, would they voluntarily pay more for raw materials? Labor is an expense, just like materials. You don't pay more for it just because you have extra money. Anyone who thinks this tax bill or even lower taxes will increase hiring or raise wages is a dolt.

 

[learnedhand]

​

It would depend on future changes to the law, automatic stabilizers, Federal Reserve action, market forces, etc.

At the moment, the deficit is estimated to be $666 billion for FY 2017 so it would probably be in the $1T ballpark if Democrats and Republicans get the additional stuff they want to get the US economy back on the right track.

In any event, it's a shame the GOP dropped the ball on tax reform because they lacked ambition.

This drives me a bit crazy. Our economy is not perfect, but is the envy of the world. We have the lowest unemployment in a generation. Corporations are hoarding money and profits are very high. We have made a miraculous recovery from the housing bubble of 10 years ago, and Trump hasn't had to do a thing. I guess you could argue that the rate of growth isn't as fast as you'd like, but I prefer slow and steady to boom and bust, which is where I fear we're heading. The tax "break" has already been baked into the stock market.

Let's see how the economy reacts when there is no tax windfall on the horizon, when interest rates rise, or when a large industry faces a crises. Personally, I think the auto, real estate and healthcare industries are due for an adjustment.

This is coming from a business owner with over 35 employees. I know what it means to meet payroll. I know the real cost of taxes. I know that history has been unkind to a laissez-fare and supply-side economics.

 

[Crom]

How so? I was talking to my brother who has his own business of 3 employees and he said this will be huge for him and they will be able to grow faster and get their employees a nice raise and healthcare which is something they couldn't afford previously.

On a different note, (and not directed at you ThisGuy) but I really dislike the buzzword supercharge. If you use it without following it up with any sort of substance, I immediately assume you have no idea what the hell you're talking about and are just regurgitating talking points that you're blindly following.

Agreed. A tax cut is a good thing. Trying to understand why so many are upset about this?

This helps the poor and middle class as well as corporations.

Not seeing a dowside here.

 

[rokkerkory]

Agreed. A tax cut is a good thing. Trying to understand why so many are upset about this. This helps the poor and middle class as well as corporations.

Tax reductions for non corps are not permanent thats why.

 

[mercenar1e]

Agreed. A tax cut is a good thing. Trying to understand why so many are upset about this?

This helps the poor and middle class as well as corporations.

Not seeing a dowside here.

The new tax bill permanently benefits the rich and corporations. It closes 0 tax loopholes which will now help corporations pay less than 15%

It removes deductions for families living in high taxed areas

Trump promised he would close the Carried Interest Loophole used by hedge fund managers but in actuality he saved it.

The plan will be a total disaster and to make up the difference the Republicans will look to slash Social Security, Medicaid and completely remove Obamacare.

 

[krazen]

This drives me a bit crazy. Our economy is not perfect, but is the envy of the world. We have the lowest unemployment in a generation. Corporations are hoarding money and profits are very high. We have made a miraculous recovery from the housing bubble of 10 years ago, and Trump hasn't had to do a thing. I guess you could argue that the rate of growth isn't as fast as you'd like, but I prefer slow and steady to boom and bust, which is where I fear we're heading. The tax "break" has already been baked into the stock market.

Let's see how the economy reacts when there is no tax windfall on the horizon, when interest rates rise, or when a large industry faces a crises. Personally, I think the auto, real estate and healthcare industries are due for an adjustment.

This is coming from a business owner with over 35 employees. I know what it means to meet payroll. I know the real cost of taxes. I know that history has been unkind to a laissez-fare and supply-side economics.

Yup. You’ve got a few bubbles popping out there (the market itself, real estate in major cities) along with issues like the unmanagable healthcare costs (which this bill will intentionally break in hopes it forces a bipartisial solution...lolz...like that will happen) and a current generation that can’t afford their college loans because their buying power is shit.

The tax cuts are under the impression the “good” times are here to stay and they most certainly aren’t in the near future.

 

[Lynn616]

Tax reductions for non corps are not permanent thats why.

Last till 2027 then returns to current levels. So I will get to keep more of the money I earned than before. This is a good thing for middle class.

Republicans ended the individual tax cuts in 2026 to conform to Senate rules that require the measure to limit the federal debt increases.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Last till 2027 then returns to current levels. So I will get to keep more of the money I earned than before. This is a good thing for middle class.

Republicans ended the individual tax cuts in 2026 to conform to Senate rules that require the measure to limit the federal debt increases.

Ugh it's more complicated than that.

Read up a bit: https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-tax-plan-how-it-affects-you-4113968

 

[Lynn616]

Ugh it's more complicated than that.

Read up a bit: https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-tax-plan-how-it-affects-you-4113968

Ugh. Middle class will keep more of their money. That is a fact.

The waiver avoiding the Medicare cuts will be in the spending bill.

 

[PataHikari]

Last till 2027 then returns to current levels. So I will get to keep more of the money I earned than before. This is a good thing for middle class.

Republicans ended the individual tax cuts in 2026 to conform to Senate rules that require the measure to limit the federal debt increases.

Oh boy an extra 5 bucks on my paycheck is so worth killing people and giving the hyper rich another billion.

 

[pramod]

https://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/943559705888284672

 

[davepoobond]

Ugh. Middle class will keep more of their money. That is a fact.

The waiver avoiding the Medicare cuts will be in the spending bill.

you get less deductions. its not as much as you think. 300 dollars for a whole year or something is nothing.

 

[Lynn616]

you get less deductions. its not as much as you think. 300 dollars for a whole year or something is nothing.

It is more than that for me. Around $1500. Any amount the government doesn't take from the money I worked for is a good thing.

Hey look AT&T is giving 200,000 employees a $1,000 bonus because of the tax cut. I am sure you guys can find something negative about that too.

 

[PataHikari]

It is more than that for me. Around $1500. Any amount the government doesn't take from the money I worked for is a good thing.

Hey look AT&T is giving 200,000 employees a $1,000 bonus because of the tax cut. I am sure you guys can find something negative about that too.

Why not give them a raise to match their massive productivity instead of a one time BS PR move

I'm those AT&T employees be glad to put that extra thousand to good use then their medical bills skyrocket!

 

[TheLaughingStock]

This drives me a bit crazy. Our economy is not perfect, but is the envy of the world.

I don't think anyone reasonable is asking for perfection.

Moreover, saying the US economy is the envy of the world is something that may make you feel good or maybe you heard it from another American, but it isn't something many outsiders are saying.

The US has a big infrastructure deficit, it's dedicating 18% of GDP to health care, lots of income inequality, a lot of prime-aged men and women still haven't returned to work, China (ideologically your polar opposite) is right on the US's heels or if you measure GDP by PPP is ahead of you, etc. Instead of complaining about corporate taxes (which is a bad tax) people should fix the regressive nature of state and local taxes. Everybody can win that way.

In any event, let's be real...Bernie Sanders is running around talking about free college. Elizabeth Warren is saying the system is rigged. Donald Trump is POTUS. And the GOP is cutting taxes because they feel they're too high. I don't see how the US can be the envy of the world and have all of these people trying to make america great again proposing all of these major changes.

 

[highrider]

GOP Deregulates business, cuts taxes, economy improves in short term, business runs amok due to corporate structure and hoarding instincts, economy collapses from big banks, again. We bail them out. Rinse. Repeat. Particularly comical this time is the emphasis on America becoming a great manufacturing center. Utterly myopic and will fail miserably. The problem isn’t the taxes, it’s what they are used for.

 

[Lynn616]

Why not give them a raise to match their massive productivity instead of a one time BS PR move

I'm those AT&T employees be glad to put that extra thousand to good use then their medical bills skyrocket!

Wells Fargo raising minimum pay to $15. Fifth third Bank $15 and $1000 employee bonus. Comcast $1000 bonus to 100,000 employee and 50 billion increase in infrastructure spending.

 

[PataHikari]

Wells Fargo raising minimum pay to $15. Fifth third Bank $15 and $1000 employee bonus. Comcast $1000 bonus to 100,000 employee and 50 billion increase in infrastructure spending.

Call me when they finally make wages line up with productivity again.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Call me when they finally make wages line up with productivity again.

Why call you who cares...??? Pick a job where your wages the free market dictates your skill level.

 

[PataHikari]

Why call you who cares...??? Pick a job where your wages the free market dictates your skill level.

The "Free Market" is actively working over to screw over people and pay them less and less for their work for the past several decades. It's very clear the "free market" isn't doing its job of providing for society.

 

[Kimawolf]

It is more than that for me. Around $1500. Any amount the government doesn't take from the money I worked for is a good thing.

Hey look AT&T is giving 200,000 employees a $1,000 bonus because of the tax cut. I am sure you guys can find something negative about that too.

FYI ATT just laid off 700 Direct TV workers so I guess they don't factor into that? And over the last 10 years ATT alone has laid off/fired/downsized by several thousand people so not sure why they need to be praised. And ATT news really doesn't affect the other 150 million people working. Don't let brief PR fool you, they could have done this at ANYTIME while they were making record breaking profits, but they just want people to be happy they get an extra 60 dollars a month while the company gets millions upon millions in tax breaks.

 

[PataHikari]

Also it turns out the bonus was something that was always going to be happening, having been negotiated for by the unionized employees at AT&T.

 

[theclaw135]

Nobody cares about the deficit now that Republicans are in charge.

A cut centuries in the making. Disband the GOP and just maybe we'll find progress.

 

[learnedhand]

In any event, let's be real...Bernie Sanders is running around talking about free college. Elizabeth Warren is saying the system is rigged. Donald Trump is POTUS. And the GOP is cutting taxes because they feel they're too high. I don't see how the US can be the envy of the world and have all of these people trying to make america great again proposing all of these major changes.

This is silly. Have you just started following politics? One side always complains about the other. MAGA is an empty cliche, and this tax cut does nothing but enlarge the wealth gap; which is revolution-size at this point.

And by the looks of your subsequent post, you've discovered what "effective tax rate" means. Your solution of abolishing the corporate tax is ludicrous. It's like building an infrastructure with public money then handing it over to private companies to rape the consumer with fees. You're delusional if you think most corps will not sacrifice fairness and long-term stability for short-term gain.

 

[RiccochetJ]

FYI ATT just laid off 700 Direct TV workers so I guess they don't factor into that? And over the last 10 years ATT alone has laid off/fired/downsized by several thousand people so not sure why they need to be praised. And ATT news really doesn't affect the other 150 million people working. Don't let brief PR fool you, they could have done this at ANYTIME while they were making record breaking profits, but they just want people to be happy they get an extra 60 dollars a month while the company gets millions upon millions in tax breaks.

Those 700 people laid off are DirecTV installers. That's more a result of people cord cutting at record rates. In Q3, DirecTV lost 385,000 traditional TV subscribers.

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/att-directv-q3-2017-record-pay-tv-loss-1202598165/

This is the unfortunate result of an entire market shift. However I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those people who lost their jobs could shift into internet installations and maintenance with proper education and training.

As Lynn616 pointed out, already a lot of these companies are announcing billions in investments moving forward. There will be demand for properly trained employees.

Also it turns out the bonus was something that was always going to be happening, having been negotiated for by the unionized employees at AT&T.

Source?

 

[Helen Keller the Musical]

All the announced tax cuts are a bit too small.

 

[RiccochetJ]

All the announced tax cuts are a bit too small.

Want to follow up on that with anything of substance?

 

[Heisenberg]

Lol @ acting like the AT&T, Wells Fargo, etc. bonuses and increases weren't strategically planned to be released right as the bill passed considering you can be sure all of these companies lobbied hard for the reductions.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Lol @ acting like the AT&T, Wells Fargo, etc. bonuses and increases weren't strategically planned to be released right as the bill passed considering you can be sure all of these companies lobbied hard for the reductions.

And if they were? They said that if the tax break happened this sort of thing would occur.

Tell me why raises and bonuses are a bad thing.

Tell me why we should be more like Venezuela.

 

[Vicetrailia]

And if they were? They said that if the tax break happened this sort of thing would occur.

Tell me why raises and bonuses are a bad thing.

Tell me why we should be more like Venezuela.

Do yourself a favor and read.. It's generic news in the face of everything that is going on. So many things, so many bigly political pandering----I mean things going on.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Do yourself a favor and read.. It's generic news in the face of everything that is going on. So many things, so many bigly political pandering----I mean things going on.

I've already read those. They came out much earlier today. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here other than tossing out "bigly"

I mean, you can keep on trying to tell people that they will die and their kids will starve like they are in Venezuela. You know, the utopia of socialism up until 3 years ago when oil hit the shitter and the government ruling class decided to feed themselves instead of the people.

Love that. I remember someone on GAF claiming that they were Communist. Somehow they think their quality of life would improve despite every single piece of evidence in history showing otherwise. The only argument I ever see is, "Well this time it will be different!"

I'll take my chances thank you very much.

Why have taxes at all, you don't see a downside.

Oh good god. Dial it back a bit if you want any sort of reasonable response.

 

[darkinstinct]

Agreed. A tax cut is a good thing. Trying to understand why so many are upset about this?

This helps the poor and middle class as well as corporations.

Not seeing a dowside here.

Why have taxes at all, you don't see a downside.

 

[pramod]

The last two times Republicans cut taxes, it resulted in growth for the economy.

If Democrats are so certain it won't happen this time, why not wait to see if they will be proven right? Then we can all move on from this silly idea that tax cuts actually help the economy.

 

[Vicetrailia]

The last two times Republicans cut taxes, it resulted in growth for the economy.

If Democrats are so certain it won't happen this time, why not wait to see if they will be proven right? Then we can all move on from this silly idea that tax cuts actually help the economy.

It's not that tax cuts are bad, it's how you do it, and whose benefitting.

We want to benefit the middle class and below primarily. That's were the population/demand is, and they will spend more if they get tax breaks (if you're concerned about quick GDP growth). We want to cut taxes and only cut spending from unproductive programs. If we cut food stamps, it'll have an immediate impact on the economy (it's fine if no one needs it though, that would be nice). But the key thing is that Republicans have been oversimplifying the relationship between tax cuts and economic growth, in order to cut taxes for the rich significantly, and do little for the middle class. This tax bill is lopsided, and benefits the rich the far more.

 

[BANGS]

With the exception of military funding, we shouldn't have any sort of federal taxes. Everything else could be(and should be) handled at a more local level considering how drastically different every state and county is in this great nation...

 

[Vicetrailia]

With the exception of military funding, we shouldn't have any sort of federal taxes. Everything else could be(and should be) handled at a more local level considering how drastically different every state and county is in this great nation...

That will never happen.

 

[Kimawolf]

The last two times Republicans cut taxes, it resulted in growth for the economy.

If Democrats are so certain it won't happen this time, why not wait to see if they will be proven right? Then we can all move on from this silly idea that tax cuts actually help the economy.

Thr last two republicans who cut taxes ended up with huge recessions at the end of their terms. Regan's tax cuts? when he left office his successor had to RAISE taxes to fix major issues with lost revenue. and lets not forget GWB who bragged about basically housing bubbles and finance bubbles which were enlarged by his irresponsible tax cuts. So yes they do always cut taxes, just for the next president to come along and fix things.

 

[MBison]

Nancy Pelosi said this was the worst bill in the history of the United States. That it's Armageddon.

Lol.

Apparently Armageddon means:

80% of Americans keeping more of their money
Higher wages announced by several major corporations
Bonuses announced by several major corporations
In nearly every possible family example, they kept more of their money. For instance a single father of 2 kids making 60k had his tax burden reduced by like 30%.

Armageddon folks. This is what Armageddon looks like.