Why not both? We don't live in a philosophical vacuum in which one solution is the only solution.
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The Guardian: Support for Le Pen surges in rural France
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Why not both? We don't live in a philosophical vacuum in which one solution is the only solution.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Most of Europe is still largely white. Major popular centres are the exception, and globally (at least on racial, rather than ethnic measures), the Americas are kind of odd in that regard.
Ultimately though, the obsession with the common farmer/rural person as the true soul of the country or whatever is something that dates back to Roman times on this continent. As democracy slowly but surely ceded actual power to them, that notion has only risen over the ages.
AuthenticM
Member
I seriously cannot wait for old people to die off.
Nope, it was all in my original post. The Russians were blamed for story in OP, I asked for evidence of that Russian meddling, Russian meddling evidence had nothing to do with recent events that could have explained the story in OP.
Because one post particularly called out Russia as an explanation. If there are multiple factors then they must be the ultimate Orchestra conductors to control every aspect of every election of all these countries.
Occam's Razor would indicate that the big bear nuclear power that has been meddling in democratic elections for two years pushing for isolationist, xenophobic, right wingers IS STILL doing it.
I keep thinking of the following quote in regards to France, especially after Brexit and Trump.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us." - Stephen King
After the last two events, don't underestimate the populist candidates or policy positions.
The Salt Life
Banned
MLP has a lot of youth support.
The Western world pushed for democracy, here's democracy. Social multifaced issues are not something a mob is able to solve without tantrums.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Casually ignoring Geert Wilders doing worse than even the polls said he would. Brexit was LEADING the poll for weeks, Trump was polling closely for the last month of the campaign. On the other hand, Le Pen is polling like garbage in the runoff. She would have two weeks to erase a 15+ point deficit if she even makes the runoff.
Robot Pants
Member
You are being intellectually dishonest. Someone can vote based on fake news propagated by Russia, and someone else can vote the same way because of recent terrorist events. There is no need for the "ultimate Orchestra conductors to control every aspect of every election," they just need to influence the election enough to change the results, and given the sophistication and complexity of their efforts, it's completely ludicrous to believe that Russia has absolutely no influence.
Are boomers to blame for the younger generations not turning out to vote?
We had our chance to stop Brexit and Trump, and many of us didn't take it.
CrocMother
Banned
So is the United States.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
It's almost like they want people to vote in ways they deem "wrong" so they can go on these "fuck the world, let's all die" diatribes they love. It's a fucking joke.
Definitely. I can only hope this blows up in Russia's face before the French suffer their Trump/Brexit/other objectively idiotic idea that gets through because of districting & appealing to sheltered bigots.
The far-right movement sweeping the Western world has plenty of youth support.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
And don't underestimate the fact that she's 20 points behind Macron in the second round. And that Hillary would have won with the French voting system.
Of course we should be worried and stay on our toes in regards to Le Pen... But a direct comparison to America and the UK is too easy of a narrative to make. The numbers are completely different.
Pretty much. Just today Trump effectively endorsed her.
US and Russia are basically pushing the same far right xenophobic candidate at the moment.
Just saying 'the Russians' in any topic about right wing parties is being intellectually dishonest to the point that it's some low-ball meme that immediately nets you knowing-nod points. If there is a discussion to be had about Russia's involvement it would be when there is proof of its influence away from more immediate events that could cause spikes in performance unless that Russian influence can be proven to cause that spike, which in this case it can't.
TTOOLL
Member
The far right administration now in power? What a surprise!
ryutaro's mama
Member
They stop having kids before they got old?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
If she loses, will these people shut up for a while with this concern trolling or will they just move on to the next election featuring a far right candidate?
Yep, and France doesn't have our shit Electoral College system.
A reminder to all that Trump LOST the popular vote.
Yeah, it does tend to get a little myopic here from US posters regarding foreign politics. Even this thread echoes the rise of far right in Europe but at the same time True Finns, which are more left than democrats on numerous issues, just suffered a major defeat in Finland.
nintendoman58
Member
Oh look at this, another thread with a bunch of people predicting the future because "X and Y" happened in the past and think that LePen is now a shoe-in because of some amorphous blob and posting meme images as if they're 100% guaranteed to shut down an argument.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I feel bad for Silver, he argued with idiots who said Trump had no chance despite the polls being close enough. Now he's arguing with idiots who don't recognize why they were wrong the first time and are over-correcting in all the wrong ways.
RPGCrazied
Member
And Trump isn't helping matters saying she is strong with borders. Don't forget Putin donated millions of dollars to her and visited her. This is what Putin wants. Once again Trump ties himself to him.
They all gonna jump on the german train next and tell us how AFD will win (currently polling at 7-12%).
Americans, Russians and the Brits are all effectively trying to push their right wing propaganda everywhere now. Especially the english speaking media is ridiculous.
Have we learned nothing from our past collective hubris...?
Based on prior comments and the polls in the French Presidential Election Thread, thanks for informing me of the chances in the second round.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
It's not hubris to present the facts as they currently stand. If her runoff polling improves to within the margin for statistical error, then you can concern troll. As it stands now, her position has weakened and there is a real chance of her not even being in the runoff if Fillon or Melenchon over perform.
Also fun how those posters forgot about Austria and the Netherlands already.
You know, because you made bad choices, doesn't mean everyone will follow suit. Look at Spain and Portugal for heaven's sake. They're immune to the far right.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
You tend to form all kinds of blind spots when you engage in narrative building.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Le Pen's probably going to win. Let's just hope we can wait out the 5-10 years it takes to save the world.
What suggests to you that she's gonna win?
Please point me to actual data that makes you think she's not only going to win the first round but also the second round.
There's no point arguing this with you. A country is investing billions pushing nationalist far-right political parties across the globe. Trying to dismiss that is as pointless as trying to dismiss that people fall for fake news.
Autodidact
Banned
Germany also seems to be fending off far-right sentiment pretty well, too. Countries that have experience with fascism tend to be pretty suspicious of it. Go figure.
The younger generation is complicit. But the Boomers are our leaders who currently set policy and steer these nations. They're the ones at the wheel, and history will judge them as the driver right or wrong.
samoscratch
Member
Trump will never be president...
What a shitty first post.
It always depends on the person. The younger ones certainly can, as it's easy to find a job in the city. The problem is that politics and the industry have been bleeding the rural areas dry while supporting the growth of cities.
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