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[Raistlin]

And 60p broadcasts dont use 24p and 30p content? That doesnt make sense.

I didn't say that. Actually I implied the opposite.

Im talking about the motion anyways. 60i does not look like 30p.

Yes it does ... if we're talking about source material that was 30p.

As I said, look at how deinterlacing works.

Im just pointing out what theyre capable of.

I understand. Doesn't make it common.

Nope. Those GIFs came from the proper, re-shot footage.

Sorry didn't realize there was an update.

 

[zoukka]

48 looks like bad cgi, especially the first time he kicks the ball. it also looks insanely removed from the background, if that makes any sense.

No it actually makes no sense at all. Do you see news broadcast as bad cgi or unrealistic looking?

 

[Marty Chinn]

Yes it does ... if we're talking about source material that was 30p.

That doesn't even make sense. If your source is 30p, and you display it on something, it's going to display it at 30p, not 60i.

 

[mclaren777]

Since we're talking high framerates I accidentally stumbled upon this yesterday. It seems to be filmed at 60fps, or something similar. Thought you might find it interesting.

Yep, I just checked the MP4 file – that's definitely the ugliness of 59.94fps.

 

[Flo_Evans]

That doesn't even make sense. If your source is 30p, and you display it on something, it's going to display it at 30p, not 60i.

gah how many times must this be explained?

60i is a broadcast standard that de-interlaces to 30fps video.

 

[Branduil]

That doesn't even make sense. If your source is 30p, and you display it on something, it's going to display it at 30p, not 60i.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video

 

[Raistlin]

Fine, let me clarify. By using the term frame, I'm talking about unique updates per second in this case. Tekken on the PS1 ran at 60i but everyone technically called it 60 frames per second, even among game development because you were getting 60 unique frames of motion. People have seen 60 unique pieces of information displayed on a TV. Quality aside, they've seen the motion. If there wasn't any difference, you could take that live broadcast, encode it at 30fps and it should look the same; it doesn't. In fact one of the biggest annoyances for me was when Survivor went from SD to HD and it cut the framerate in half as a result.

I understand what you are saying.

Can you find some more examples of this happening? I'm not saying it has never occurred, just that I expect it's fairly rare since it creates some pretty noticeable image quality issues.

That doesn't even make sense. If your source is 30p, and you display it on something, it's going to display it at 30p, not 60i.

>_<

 

[Marty Chinn]

gah how many times must this be explained?

60i is a broadcast standard that de-interlaces to 30fps video.

Look, I understand that. I've never said otherwise. What I'm talking about is the unique frames of information. Going from 30p doesn't suddenly translate to 60 unique frames of motion.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

all i can think about is 'he needs slimmer jeans'

Hipsters can't afford RED.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

My projector syncs fine now at 48hz, the motion and clarity of your second clip looks incredible in all honesty, although I'm not convinced I'd want to lose 24p forever, this could work very well in some genres.

 

[Raistlin]

My projector syncs fine now at 48hz, the motion and clarity of your second clip looks incredible in all honesty, although I'm not convinced I'd want to lose 24p forever, this could work very well in some genres.

24p ain't going away.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

Another article from nofilmschool

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Whenever I hear the limitations of film we've gotten used to over the last 300 years optimistically referred to with terms like dreamlike or gauzy, I just think of crazy things like those old blurry Elizabeth Taylor commercials.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Whenever I hear the limitations of film we've gotten used to over the last 300 years optimistically referred to with terms like dreamlike or gauzy, I just think of crazy things like those old blurry Elizabeth Taylor commercials.

Bro. BRO. No.

 

[bud]

i've seen the basketball videos a bunch of times now, and the 48fps one looks so awesome. wow.

is it possible to shoot a 60fps video with that same camera?

 

[Loofy]

Yes it does ... if we're talking about source material that was 30p.

And who said anything about 30p source material?

My only point was this.

At first glance, it may sound like 60i and 30p are equivalent but they are not. 30p video generally results in better resolution and sharpness than 60i video while 60i video excels in fast action video such as sports. Since 60i video updates half the frame each cycle, resolution is reduced due to the fact that an entire frame is never captured at once. Since at least part of the image is updating every 1/60th of a second, however, flicker/strobing is reduced and 60i can look smoother to the eye even though overall, the data update rate is the same as 30p. Simply put, 60i can be useful if you plan to video a sporting event or if you are taking video where you must do a lot of panning from side to side. 30p is generally better for most slow to average speed pans and motion due to the ability of 30p to capture more detailed information and sharpness.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/knowledge-center/video-frame-rates-24p-25p-30p-60i.html

Again. 60i is not the same as 30p. At all.

 

[Brimstone]

For almost 100 years, 24p has been the standard for movies and cinema, hence what I am talking about when I say "cinematic feel". That's all anyone has known. And 24p isn't leaving any time soon.

The Kinetoscope was designed to run at 48fps, but they wanted to save on film costs they went to 16fps, but then audio didn't work well so they increased to 24fps.

24fps was designed for low cost reasons. Even 100 years ago the engineers knew higher frame rate is better.


I hope James Cameron wins and gets 60fps. It doesn't mean every director has to film at 60fps, they can still choose 24fps. It just gives more options to achieve whatever "feel" the director wants.

 

[Nappuccino]

They were 2 different recordings. The 24p was captured at 24p and using the traditional shutter speed (180 degrees).

Cool, a tad surprising, but cool.

 

[kemalettin]

Scarlet, which is the exact same sensor as the Epic, just less fps. And it cost a lot. Got it because it has less problems than the Epic does, and I don't overcrank footage that much.

Now I just wait for the Dragon sensor upgrade to start shooting at 6K.

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

 

[Raistlin]

And who said anything about 30p source material?

My only point was this.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/knowledge-center/video-frame-rates-24p-25p-30p-60i.html

Again. 60i is not the same as 30p. At all.

What's causing a lot of confusion in the discussion is whether people are talking about recordings or how it's broadcast.

30p recordings are most commonly broadcast at 60i. Yes actual 30p and 60i recordings are different. What's happening here is some posters appear to be assuming that 60i broadcasts are always 60i content ... which isn't the case.

What makes this even more confusing is that to my knowledge what's typically recorded has changed over the years. I suspect 60i content was used more often back in the NTSC days because of how CRT display interlaced content. There are less artifacts due to the nature of how it works. With fixed pixel displays, artifacts in actual 60i content are more obvious.


Getting back to the earlier discussions though, 60i recording are not common for serials, etc. They were either 30p video or film.

 

[Branduil]

Another article from nofilmschool

In a way, 24fps actually allows us to become more engaged and drawn into a film because the distancing effect gives us more time to savor all of the details.

Technically a better 24fps picture can be derived from 120hz or 240hz since it doesn&#8217;t require a pulldown, but I still prefer what films look like on a 60hz TV at 24fps.

I am now stupider for having read that article.

 

[Dead]

Reads like something you'd see on Nolanfans.com

 

[TAJ]

i've seen the basketball videos a bunch of times now, and the 48fps one looks so awesome. wow.

is it possible to shoot a 60fps video with that same camera?

At 2k, yes.

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

Wow, that's some impressive douchebaggery.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Reads like something you'd see on Nolanfans.com

Spoiler

I completely agree. Or on Nolan GAF.

 

[Branduil]

Oh man the comments.

I disagree TV series are shown in 30 fps and it is soooo distracting to me I always wait to watch them on DVD. It does not have the motion blur we are used to seeing

our eyes refresh at around 12 fps, there is something called nyquist’s theorem of sampling which says we should sample at at least double what we perceive which is where 24fps comes from (and 44Khz for audio sampling). now the trouble comes because, although we can see the clear difference between 24fps and 48fps, we dont actually see the world that way. in real life when we move around our eyes discriminate (just like our ears do when listening to things) and we are left with a feeling of motion closer to 24fps

 

[nomis]

Technically a better 24fps picture can be derived from 120hz or 240hz since it doesn’t require a pulldown, but I still prefer what films look like on a 60hz TV at 24fps.

 

[Sobriquet]

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

Take it easy, Laszlo Panaflex.

 

[Raistlin]

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

Apparently money can't buy you tact, humility, or linguistics.

It sounds like you're a twelve year old that learned to communicate via youtube comments, and to socially interact from someone within the autism spectrum.

Come at me bro.

 

[XMonkey]

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

Let's see your work, kid.

 

[nomis]

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

You speak like a junior high student whose parents bought him a RED camera to shoot his youtube commentaries with.

 

[Loofy]

You speak like a junior high student whose parents bought him a RED camera to shoot his youtube commentaries with.

Most likely its his dads and once in awhile hes allowed to touch the buttons.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

Surrrrrre...I have no money to buy an epic, but enough to buy lens that even 1 of which cost more than an epic. And double the price? When did red announce that? Oh yeah, they haven't yet. And even at double the price, it's still less than buying an Epic. Something that for what I do, I have no use for. I don't overcrank to where I need 300fps. I mostly do photography with it. Why waste money on features I'll never use? Unlike you, for me it's not about status. It's about what I need to get the job done. I bet you don't even touch all the features the epic has. And never will.

And again, it's the same sensor. You're not going to have any difference in noise between an epic and scarlet.

Also yes, less problems. Less redmote problems during sync, Epic didn't even have playback until after the Scarlet came out, and way less freezes.

But why bring this up now? What purpose does your rant have anything to do with what we're talking about? Hard to believe someone so immature has an epic and I've met a ton of epic/scarlet users. GAF and RED communities don't need people like you. I doubt you even have an epic. Or if you do, not talented enough to use one. Go back to DSLRs.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

 

[Jangaroo]

Wrong guy I quoted my bad.

looool it will cost you double price of scarlet body but $ 6K to me since i have the epic
less problem than epic? wake up kid and accept the reality that you dont have enough money for epic-x or m.less problem than epic? rofl you are very funny scarlet footage looks like shit and noisy when you compared to epic.honestly i did side by side scarlet vs R1 MX..and Mx has more wise IQ than scarlet..

There ya go. Now, what the fuck am I reading here. Totally uncalled for in this thread.

 

[bud]

i'm reading this thread at 24fps because it's more cinematic that way.

 

[Peru]

Don't know if it's been posted here before, but David Bordwell went on a nice and informative rant against new projection technologies, 3D, fps, etc: It's good to be the King of the World http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2012/04/22/its-good-to-be-the-king-of-the-world/

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

My editor put up the article I wrote yesterday about the adverse reactions to 48fps. I asked blurei for permission to use his videos as a reference point, but despite my advice it seems my editor decided to upload it to youtube. Lulz

http://www.popcorntaxi.com.au/2012/04/blog/48-frowns-per-second-what-all-the-48-fps-fuss-is-about/

 

[nomis]

despite my advice it seems my editor decided to upload it to youtube. Lulz

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Don't know if it's been posted here before, but David Bordwell went on a nice and informative rant against new projection technologies, 3D, fps, etc: It's good to be the King of the World http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2012/04/22/its-good-to-be-the-king-of-the-world/

More than being against any of those things in particular, it seems to be more against big name directors repeatedly shifting the goalposts for theaters over the last decade. "You need to go digital! Now you need to go 3D! Now you need to go high frame rate!"

But hey, we're in a time of transition. That it's inconvenient for theater owners doesn't change the reality that letting home viewing get ahead of them would be a silly thing. 3D is the biggest reason I've gone to the movies rather than watching at home in the last few years, but as I'm planning on getting a 3D TV in the next month or two that will be less of an incentive.

 

[Whogie]

Doesn't Youtube have a 30FPS cap?
Those don't seem to look as smooth as what I saved.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Doesn't Youtube have a 30FPS cap?
Those don't seem to look as smooth as what I saved.

Yes. Which is why I told him not to do it. But the boss is the boss!

 

[nomis]

Yes. Which is why I told him not to do it. But the boss is the boss!

You'd think telling him "It's redundant, just don't bother posting it then" would be pretty easy for him to get.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

You'd think telling him "It's redundant, just don't bother posting it then" would be pretty easy for him to get.

I explained youtubes 30fps cap and everything! I've already emailed him again.

 

[nomis]

I explained youtubes 30fps cap and everything! I've already emailed him again.

That seems insane. Dude does what he wants.

"These videos are meant to illustrate a 100% difference, on youtube it shows a 20% difference. If the article is meant to educate about The Hobbit, this doesn't work."

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

I explained youtubes 30fps cap and everything! I've already emailed him again.

Hahaha, takes the effect away totally. Your boss would have been better off with those gifs that were posted earlier of the basement clips. Thanks for not putting my name on the youtube clips, I don't want people thinking that uploading 48fps video to youtube was my idea

 

[hateradio]

Actually, there are some videos on youtube that are 60FPS.

Not sure if there was a recent cap.


Edit: After some light searching, I can't find an video that plays higher than 30. That sucks.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Hahaha, takes the effect away totally. Your boss would have been better off with those gifs that were posted earlier of the basement clips. Thanks for not putting my name on the youtube clips, I don't want people thinking that uploading 48fps video to youtube was my idea

Again, thank you. Those videos in the article will be replaced with the gifs.

 

[jonremedy]

What's causing a lot of confusion in the discussion is whether people are talking about recordings or how it's broadcast.

30p recordings are most commonly broadcast at 60i. Yes actual 30p and 60i recordings are different. What's happening here is some posters appear to be assuming that 60i broadcasts are always 60i content ... which isn't the case.

What makes this even more confusing is that to my knowledge what's typically recorded has changed over the years. I suspect 60i content was used more often back in the NTSC days because of how CRT display interlaced content. There are less artifacts due to the nature of how it works. With fixed pixel displays, artifacts in actual 60i content are more obvious.


Getting back to the earlier discussions though, 60i recording are not common for serials, etc. They were either 30p video or film.

I'll just say that where I work, everything's recorded in 50i (PAL-land). Everything we make, whether it goes to a channel that broadcasts 50p or 50i, it's all made in 1080 50i. Of course, most of what we make is reality television...

 

[pottuvoi]

My editor put up the article I wrote yesterday about the adverse reactions to 48fps. I asked blurei for permission to use his videos as a reference point, but despite my advice it seems my editor decided to upload it to youtube. Lulz

http://www.popcorntaxi.com.au/2012/04/blog/48-frowns-per-second-what-all-the-48-fps-fuss-is-about/

Commented on article about the use of youtube and added a link to a proper videos.. (hopefully helps a little..)

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Commented on article about the use of youtube and added a link to a proper videos.. (hopefully helps a little..)

The editor already knows. He was just struggling to get an embded up, so he's replacing it with the gifs when he gets the chance.