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The Last Night: IGN Article [Quack Quack Slurp Slurp]

X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
CheesecakeRecipe said:
Having an open mind has nothing to do with what people were calling you out on yesterday, and you know it. You've continued to shift yourself around once things get uncomfortable to answer. Your arguments have been filled with false equivalences ("Might as well not buy anything because it's all produced by slave-labor!", and "How do you feel about GTA?"), low-key gaslighting ("What evidence is there that the story was about that to begin with?" when your posts are surrounded by posts quoting tweets that tell you exactly that, then later bullshitting a claim of your own that completely ignores the provided context), and at last (getting to your 'open mind' point) handwaving away any and all evidence that the dude hasn't changed simply because one very flawed fluff piece has him skirting around his beliefs and his recent actions directly contradict his claims that he has 'distanced' himself from the very kinds of people he was a part of and catering to as a part of the game's very own inception.

What most of us in the topic are interested in is genuine, honest conversation. You have not provided that. You criticize everyone else for not being 'open minded' while they're showing you very, very specific evidence that there's no reason to trust him, and can't ever actually provide solid counter-evidence. Where are his tweets that tell us what the game is about now? Why is it that every time someone covers the game, it's only to tell people about how pretty the game is (and it is very pretty from an art standpoint, absolutely!) and not covering the story changes it has underwent since he was exposed during E3? As a writer, I am very familiar with needing to scrap large chunks of a story in order to solve problems that arise while trying to make everything come together. The core of the story, however, typically remains the same. I'm honestly not going to believe that Tim tore out the rotten soul of the game's concept when it's this far along until he can show that otherwise. If he did, great! He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt though, as he's lied about pretty much everything else relating to his beliefs and the kinds of people he wants to associate with ideologically. This is where you and the rest of the posters in this topic are split.

So here's what we want from you: For you to actually give us reason to believe in Tim and his game through factual evidence, and not conveniently brush away everything that stands in direct contradiction to your 'open mind' approach. I would really appreciate it if you could, because then there might actually be something worth discussing!
Click to expand...

Well put.
 
T

the_darkness

Banned
CheesecakeRecipe said:
Having an open mind has nothing to do with what people were calling you out on yesterday, and you know it. You've continued to shift yourself around once things get uncomfortable to answer. Your arguments have been filled with false equivalences ("Might as well not buy anything because it's all produced by slave-labor!", and "How do you feel about GTA?"), low-key gaslighting ("What evidence is there that the story was about that to begin with?" when your posts are surrounded by posts quoting tweets that tell you exactly that, then later bullshitting a claim of your own that completely ignores the provided context), and at last (getting to your 'open mind' point) handwaving away any and all evidence that the dude hasn't changed simply because one very flawed fluff piece has him skirting around his beliefs and his recent actions directly contradict his claims that he has 'distanced' himself from the very kinds of people he was a part of and catering to as a part of the game's very own inception.

What most of us in the topic are interested in is genuine, honest conversation. You have not provided that. You criticize everyone else for not being 'open minded' while they're showing you very, very specific evidence that there's no reason to trust him, and can't ever actually provide solid counter-evidence. Where are his tweets that tell us what the game is about now? Why is it that every time someone covers the game, it's only to tell people about how pretty the game is (and it is very pretty from an art standpoint, absolutely!) and not covering the story changes it has underwent since he was exposed during E3? As a writer, I am very familiar with needing to scrap large chunks of a story in order to solve problems that arise while trying to make everything come together. The core of the story, however, typically remains the same. I'm honestly not going to believe that Tim tore out the rotten soul of the game's concept when it's this far along until he can show that otherwise. If he did, great! He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt though, as he's lied about pretty much everything else relating to his beliefs and the kinds of people he wants to associate with ideologically. This is where you and the rest of the posters in this topic are split.

So here's what we want from you: For you to actually give us reason to believe in Tim and his game through factual evidence, and not conveniently brush away everything that stands in direct contradiction to your 'open mind' approach. I would really appreciate it if you could, because then there might actually be something worth discussing!
Click to expand...
Honestly, stop moaning about fucking "factual evidence" over and over. When the guy said the game was about one thing 3 years ago, that was all the evidence you needed to make your decision.

Him saying in 2017 that that tweet no longer reflects what the game is now about is all the "evidence" I need to say ok, let's see how this turns out.

I could give 2 fucks about tweets he's liked. To me, that is not "factual evidence" for what the game is about.

If the game comes out and it's stuffed with gamergate bullshit then fine, I'll be wrong and the world will keep turning. But until then I'm happy for it to receive coverage and follow its development. If you're not interested then again, that's fine, but claiming that IGN shouldn't be covering it and Microsoft should disown this guy is over the top in my opinion.

That's it.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
the_darkness said:
Honestly, stop moaning about fucking "factual evidence" over and over. When the guy said the game was about one thing 3 years ago, that was all the evidence you needed to make your decision.

Him saying in 2017 that that tweet no longer reflects what the game is now about is all the "evidence" I need to say ok, let's see how this turns out.

I could give 2 fucks about tweets he's liked. To me, that is not "factual evidence" for what the game is about.

If the game comes out and it's stuffed with gamergate bullshit then fine, I'll be wrong and the world will keep turning. But until then I'm happy for it to receive coverage and follow its development. If you're not interested then again, that's fine, but claiming that IGN shouldn't be covering it and Microsoft should disown this guy is over the top in my opinion.

That's it.
Click to expand...

Show me where people said this to you: "You're a moron. Stop being a piece of shit." Been waiting since last night.
 
C

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
the_darkness said:
Honestly, stop moaning about fucking "factual evidence" over and over. When the guy said the game was about one thing 3 years ago, that was all the evidence you needed to make your decision.

Him saying in 2017 that that tweet no longer reflects what the game is now about is all the "evidence" I need to say ok, let's see how this turns out.

I could give 2 fucks about tweets he's liked. To me, that is not "factual evidence" for what the game is about.

If the game comes out and it's stuffed with gamergate bullshit then fine, I'll be wrong and the world will keep turning. But until then I'm happy for it to receive coverage and follow its development. If you're not interested then again, that's fine, but claiming that IGN shouldn't be covering it and Microsoft should disown this guy is over the top in my opinion.

That's it.
Click to expand...

Right, so you won't actually address any of your flawed arguments or failed attempts to 'gatcha!' people, instead telling me that I need to stop holding my position of wanting you to be responsible for your posts and argue in an honest, intellectual manner. And not faux-intellectual, as in, "You just need to have an open mind!", but by looking at the actual situation and being able to make educated judgement calls about what you see. And certainly not trying to sneak away from your bad faith arguments that have been called out repeatedly by people other than myself. This is why nobody here can honestly take you seriously. No, I won't stop 'moaning' about evidence, because it's exactly what you need to have two legs to stand on and you still don't have it. Why is it on me to change my stance when all of the evidence backs me up? That's on you. And that's why I'm not going to stop asking you to show us what we need from you. He said one thing 3 years ago, and he also said that things have changed for him and that he's distanced himself from that. Everyone is showing you that he's been lying about the latter two parts. You're simply operating on blind faith if you think he's being fully honest about the game not being about that anymore.

Now, as for claims that Microsoft needed to disown the guy or IGN shouldn't give the game coverage - I disagree with both of those things and never actually said either of them? However, Microsoft has a responsibility to understand who they are dealing with and what said business partner stands to promote. I'm not even 100% sure they are going to stand with him any longer? They seemed to get wise really quickly once the internet found his tweets. IGN, likewise, is very likely aware of who Tim is, and deserve to be criticized for producing a fluff piece that once again only talks about the visuals of the game, not tackling the social/political issues that his game stood for when he began the project. Surely it is outside of the scope of the video itself, but when the biggest point of contention is the game's alt-right tinted plot, you'd think there would be a companion article to help detail what the game actually is.

If the game does come out free and clean of the stench of those negative ideologies? I probably still won't buy the game, but I'd definitely shoot Tim a tweet and apologize for smearing his game through the mud. I honestly never want a game to fail, but there are games I will not support financially for whatever reasons I decide.
 
R

Relaxed Muscle

Member
arturo2666 said:
It's interesting that he says it's "not against" feminism because that doesn't actually mean the core concept of the game is that feminists win and dystopia arises.
Click to expand...

I can see his future argument:"I just presented a future in which feminism ideals leads to a worst world, but dons't mean I'm against feminism! feminism can be great, but it can be dangerous! we don't know!"
 
M

MazeHaze

Banned
"Everybody is attacking me"(nobody was)

Cries the poster who quotes other posters and says "this post is fucking embarrassing"

That shit is transparent as fuck.



"Guys, let's give him a chance, I know he openly supported a harassment group in the past, and said his game was based on that ideology, but he totally said he changed his mind about all that GamerGater stuff once he started getting torn apart for it, sounds legit to me, you're all being ridiculous"

Fuck outta here with that shit. You're either extremely ignorant, or somebody who calls other people cucks on different message boards.
 
F

FinalAres

Member
Relaxed Muscle said:
I can see his future argument:"I just presented a future in which feminism ideals leads to a worst world, but dons't mean I'm against feminism! feminism can be great, but it can be dangerous! we don't know!"
Click to expand...
It's like artifical sweeteners. Everyone thinks it's fine but there's just not been enough research into the potentially damaging effects of feminism.

/s
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I find when you give a lot of these people a chance they just do the same shit again. How many chances have we given PDP and he keeps doing the same ugly crap?
 
C

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
Bits N Pieces said:
I had no idea this thread would turn out like this :(
Click to expand...

You were honestly excited about a piece of media and were unaware of the troublesome aspects, and there's nothing wrong with that! Sorry that it ended up being such a mess. This is why I am unhappy with IGN's reporting on the matter, or at the very least, Tim's inability to provide the new framework for his dystopian future. It would really go a long way towards clearing up the mess it makes whenever it's brought up.
 
S

Skux

Member
If it's good, I'll play it. As I said in another thread:

I watch artists for their art, not their moral conduct.

It's entirely possible for you to love someone's album/book/movie and detest their real life actions.
Click to expand...
 
T

the_darkness

Banned
MazeHaze said:
"Everybody is attacking me"(nobody was)

Cries the poster who quotes other posters and says "this post is fucking embarrassing"

That shit is transparent as fuck.
Click to expand...
"Are you dense"
"We're currently consulting doctors to see if you have a brain"
"Own up to being a piece of shit"

Like you said, transparent as fuck.
 
C

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
the_darkness said:
"Are you dense"
"We're currently consulting doctors to see if you have a brain"
"Own up to being a piece of shit"

Like you said, transparent as fuck.
Click to expand...

"Do you know what transparent means?"

For the record: I apologized for my brashness some few posts back, as it was coming from a purely emotional standpoint. My most recent posts have aimed to be much more informative and conversational about why your posts are in bad faith. You still haven't gotten around to changing anyone's minds about that.

Feel free to respond to my previous post with something of substance at any time.

Also: That transparent sealioning. You going to actually get back to the topic, or are you going to try to sideline discussion because I called you a thing? I'm honestly surprised the moderation staff haven't chimed in on this yet.
 
C

CannonFodder52

Member
More_Badass said:
OPFweOv.jpg
Click to expand...

That tweet is so messed. Like actually disgusting
 
1

1upsuper

Member
Ironically this game just highlights a dystopian future where the alt-right wins by trying to negatively portray feminism in a dystopian future.

It's a hard pass. It's funny to see all the posters saying how good it looks who probably figure out the ugly truth moments later. Happened to me when the game was unveiled.
 
T

the_darkness

Banned
CheesecakeRecipe said:
So, you gonna actually respond to the on-topic concerns, or continue to derail and sealion? Or will I be waiting 3 years for you to get around to maybe doing it?
Click to expand...
I don't know what the fuck sealioning is supposed to be mate.

I've responded many, many, many times to the arguments being put to me. If you don't like what I'm saying, our you're just being wilfully ignorant to the fact I'm saying it, that's on you. I'm not going to keep going in circles responding to the same thing again and again specifically to satisfy the guy who called me a piece of shit.
 
C

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
the_darkness said:
I don't know what the fuck sealioning is supposed to be mate.

I've responded many, many, many times to the arguments bring put to me. If you don't like what I'm saying, our you're just being wilfully ignorant to the fact I'm saying it, that's on you. I'm not going to keep going in circles responding to the same thing again and again specifically to satisfy the guy who called me a piece of shit.
Click to expand...

I mean, I apologized for my outburst, right? I have engaged with you in a more direct and responsible manner. Do I not deserve the same kind of 'open minded' approach as you'd like us to do for Tim? Or does that only apply to one specific person?

You've only responded to a fraction of what I've pointed out. I not only don't like what you're saying, it's that you're the one being wilfully ignorant, and everyone has been trying to point this out to you. You either gotta own your own poor faith posts in this topic or accept that you're not being an honest contributor. So, which is it gonna be? Will you continue to ignore the on-topic posts, or continue to deflect and make it about yourself, like you have been all day?
I'm also a woman, if that helps you understand why I do not find any defense of Tim's bullshit acceptable.
 
M

MazeHaze

Banned
Speaking of willfully ignorant, I think It's pretty willfully ignorant to think that someone who supported GamerGate, a movement spawned in part from the outrage at anyone possibly forcing developers to change their game for PC reasons, would change his game for PC reasons. Especially when the whole concept of the game seemed to be derived from that mentality.

You're welcome to give the game the benefit of the doubt, but I think It'd be foolish to think you'll be correct with that gamble.
 
B

Budi

Member
the_darkness said:
I don't know what the fuck sealioning is supposed to be mate.

I've responded many, many, many times to the arguments being put to me. If you don't like what I'm saying, our you're just being wilfully ignorant to the fact I'm saying it, that's on you. I'm not going to keep going in circles responding to the same thing again and again specifically to satisfy the guy who called me a piece of shit.
Click to expand...
You should absolutely be allowed to wait for the actual product before making judgements on the said product. Nobody should question your morality or intelligence over it.
 
T

the_darkness

Banned
CheesecakeRecipe said:
You've only responded to a fraction of what I've pointed out. I not only don't like what you're saying, it's that you're the one being wilfully ignorant, and everyone has been trying to point this out to you. You either gotta own your own poor faith posts in this topic or accept that you're not being an honest contributor. So, which is it gonna be? Will you continue to ignore the on-topic posts, or continue to deflect and make it about yourself, like you have been all day?
I'm also a woman, if that helps you understand why I do not find any defense of Tim's bullshit acceptable.
Click to expand...
This simply isn't true. Anything I haven't replied to directly is a variation on a theme. But if there's something specific you want me to reply to, say it.

Per your spoiler, I totally understand why the stuff he's said/tweeted/liked is gross. Perspectives matter and mine is different to yours so I can acknowledge that it's easier for me to dismiss that stuff as noise as opposed to something more serious.

For the record I've stated numerous times that his personal opinions are clearly shitty and not views that I hold myself. But for me, I'm still willing to wait and see how the game turns out as opposed to writing it off completely as "filled with anti-feminist, pro-gamergate propaganda" and really, that's all I've been saying.
 
W

WordAssassin

Member
This is one of the most unique and absolutely beautiful games I have ever seen and I fucking HATE that it's connected to GamerGate and all that awful shit. I guess I can always look at pictures and video but I'm not about to give money to this. Even if I got it for free, learning that the story is soaked in shit too means I'll never be able to bring myself to play it or even watch it be played. So extremely disappointed.

Hopefully some day someone that isn't a massive prick can rip off the art style and make something worth supporting. ):<
 
S

Supreme Leader Galahad

Neo Member
Hope it releases on Steam at least, no Xbox at the moment. Really smart and thoughtful trailer composition, hard to get some behind-the-scenes on trailers so it was refreshing. Still curious about the gameplay.
 
V

VibratingDonkey

Member
However slim, there is a chance that the released game will have changed, so if you want to extend Tim Soret and Odd Tales the benefit of doubt, that's not entirely unreasonable, but quite absurd as they have done the opposite of earning it.

For those who think it looks real pretty (all of us), that can obviously be appreciated in video form.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Skux said:
If it's good, I'll play it. As I said in another thread:
Click to expand...

I enjoy Beatles music, despite Lennon was an asshole. I enjoyed Chinatown despite Polanski being a child rapist.

These things did not revolve around the toxic aspects of them, and this game does. There's the big difference between this game and other pieces of media made by POS.

But if you're able to separate both things, despite you're going to probably be feeling while playing how GG'y it feels, good for you.

the_darkness said:
I could give 2 fucks about tweets he's liked. To me, that is not "factual evidence" for what the game is about.
Click to expand...

*Is literally given evidence that proves that his apology is half-assed and proceeds to ignore it.*

You do you.
 
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