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[Oynox]

So why do people buy R* games? Everybody knows working conditions are shit.

 

[dugdug]

I can't believe some people are willing to look past all the GG stuff (which he clearly still believes) because it's a nice looking game.

So he made a bunch of pretty pictures. Great. Lots of people can do that. Support the one's who are worth it.

 

[ShironRedshift]

Is there a TLR or YouTube video explaining what the controversy is about right now? I don't really have the time to read through this whole thread unfortunately. I love the look of this game and it looks like I won't be able to support it judging from glimpses im seeing here.

In short: the creator of the game appears to be a misogynist GamerGater and, at least initially, the plan for the story of the game was to be about his misogynist beliefs. Or in more detail, the controversy thus far is basically this:

Looks like it's even worse than that.

I was the one who first posted in the GB thread about it when i saw stuff on Twitter but it was just rumblings; this just keeps escalating beyond what I expected.

The creator is telling you what the game is about

How do we separate?

Our main character in The Last Night is bisexual.

I sure hope the author isn't angling for the direction with this characterization that I think he's angling for.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCFH_VmVYAANdlN.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCFH_VQU0AA3vPL.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCFMMkmUwAAFhrC.jpg[/IMG]

yikes

I realised he probably had French tweets people hadn't caught:

(the tweets he's replying to have been deleted)

1. The only racist I see here creating a racial hierarchy because someone is black or white here is you.

2. The real racists are the degenerates of your kind who see everything through the prism of race and gender.


(The next tweets are in the context of an "anti colonial summer camp" in France for POC which did not welcome the participation of white folk.)

Tim1. Please tell me you're not defending the summer camp, Baptiste.

Baptiste2. I 200% do, and I really dislike seeing everybody up in arms about it. "Oh my god, the oppressed are organising!"

Tim3. Wow, you've totally bought into the rhetoric of oppression and state racism. Disappointing.

(he then suggests Baptiste read an article he links)

Baptiste4. I read it, it's mediocre and shallow. Whether or not it chaffs your butt, institutional racism exists and is still a reality.

Baptiste5. Obviously, people who don't live it scream when say that, which in itself justifies the existence of a camp where speech is protected.

Tim6. That's anti living-together. I miss the 90s when I was a kid and we were all mixed and never thought about colour or religion.


And, re: Zoe Quinn

I don't know if you're aware, but it's a hot topic. Zoe Quinn was sexually harassing men all while crying sexism.

And no, contrary to the PR campaign they're running, there's no real indication they've actually changed recently at all:

So the writer/producer (who posted here earlier) liked this tweet from a Gamergater account just a few hours ago:

https://twitter.com/mombot/status/874087165080121344

Now check out the linked article in that tweet, which by the way was written by another Gamergater Ian Miles Cheong (a prominent one):


LOL
Also, "game developer" in scare quotes, classy

Apparently having your life ruined and being constantly harassed for years is "manufactured drama".

This is all from the writer/producer of this game. And he "liked" this, along with other tweets complaining about SJWs, just a few hours ago.

But sure, they're totally reformed and distancing themselves from their GG past. Right?

 

[Alucrid]

Is there a TLR or YouTube video explaining what the controversy is about right now? I don't really have the time to read through this whole thread unfortunately. I love the look of this game and it looks like I won't be able to support it judging from glimpses im seeing here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=240258057&postcount=1937

 

[Makai]

So why do people buy R* games? Everybody knows working conditions are shit.

Wrong thread?

 

[HStallion]

So why do people buy R* games? Everybody knows working conditions are shit.

Some people don't buy their games because of the working conditions. We had an entire thread on this situation not too long ago and it got a ton of replies and back and forth on this.

 

[Neuromancer]

Beyond any of his stupid personal politics, this makes the game sound dumb as fuck.

Wow.

Fuck this game, fuck this guy. Too bad too since it looks pretty cool otherwise.

 

[Lime]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

 

[MontyBrown]

We live in the real world.

Most of us have realized that supporting pieces of media like this, including games, has a negative, and absolutely real, effect on the world. We've seen what happened in 2016.

On the other hand, going "it's just a different view" confers no great positive other than making yourself feel 'principled' and good about yourself, while you ignore the real effects of what supporting a thing like this does. It's a pretty callous and shallow thing to do.

I really think it's hyperbolic to suggest that buying a game like this will have any meaningful negative impact on society in any way.

If I was a betting man, I'd guess that if these themes do play a prominent role in the game, they'll more likely be the focus of mockery than winning people over. How can you successfully present ideas which are so clearly idiotic?

And if anyone becomes some weird sexist from playing a game, well, something was always going to tip them over the edge because no logical person would have that happen.

But like I said, I'm not even saying I will buy it, I'm just not opposed to looking past a creator's personal views to experience their creation.

In all likelihood, I bet this shit is toned down by release if only to please MS, if it even comes out after all this.

 

[Lime]

BAKOON‏ @BAKKOOONN 14h

https://twitter.com/BAKKOOONN/status/874088860669550592

All distributors should have this on the product page.

 

[xxracerxx]

So the writer/producer (who posted here earlier) liked this tweet from a Gamergater account just a few hours ago:

https://twitter.com/mombot/status/874087165080121344

Now check out the linked article in that tweet, which by the way was written by another Gamergater Ian Miles Cheong (a prominent one):

Jesus, that writing in the article.

Given that Quinn’s only real foray into video games was to the creation of a controversial text-based choose-your-own-adventure story about depression, it’s no surprise that she would be upset by the amount of positive attention Soret’s game is receiving. Her jealousy couldn’t be more evident.

Typical woman, just butthurt over a man's success!

 

[Oxymoron]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

He's actually pro-UBI, or UBI curious, per his French-election tweets. He's a Berniebro, not an alt-right guy.

 

[Stabby McSter]

Wow.

Fuck this game, fuck this guy. Too bad too since it looks pretty cool otherwise.

i don't get it

aren't egalitarianism and feminism fighting for the same team

 

[lem0n]

So why do people buy R* games? Everybody knows working conditions are shit.

It's hard to crucify a whole company. Man if I let someone else's personal views affect my buying habits, I'd be fucked. Dude is a piece of shit but if it's a game I want to play, I'm going to play it. There are racists, assholes and everything else in between at every developer/publisher.

 

[djtiesto]

So, reading the tweets, this is a game world where extreme progressivism won, yet the main character is disabled and unable to interact with augments or whatnot. But based on my knowledge of progressive values, adaptive technology and inclusiveness are a definite part (ADA and IDEA were certainly progressive legislations). Which creates so much cognitive dissonance.

 

[Simon Belmont]

i don't get it

aren't egalitarianism and feminism fighting for the same team

Just like Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter are.

 

[wamberz1]

Oh yeah, this game looked really cool

*Clicks thread*

...Well shit.

 

[wildfire]

Fine i'll play devil's advocate

So been reading up on also some other of his old posts, like from 2014
https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/9728-cyberpunk-cop-killah-aka-the-last-night/#comment-324938

So while I still disagree on his stances there, I don't think he's even half th emonster some people here and on twitter paint him to be. Yes, the synopsis of his game seems ludicrous but also...it's not out yet and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Looking at his feed and stuff, I don't think he's some frothing hateful gamergater but rather some centrist with a bad case of naiveté on some of the issues. I say this because I wasn't exactly far of being exactly him back then, until I actually started talking with people here and with others.

If the game's bad, i'll criticize it for its writing, especially since the themes seem at odds with a cyberpunk genre. But I dunno...I will get some flak for this and will carry that L, but i do think the dogpile is a biiiiit much. Although criticism of his past stances are absolutely valid.

That's the thing though: If he said those things in 2014 and properly explained to us how he changed and denounced Gamergate, a hate movement, some probably would be able to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Instead he defends himself in flimsy three tweets, his publisher say "Yeah, he totally changed since 2014", while his writer, who was in this thread, likes tweets like "I'm loving all this salt from these SJWS!!!" while all this is happening.
Furthermore his tweets show no change of behaviour whatsoever, in fact, they reinforce that he DIDN'T change. He has several similarly bad tweets in french from 2015/16, and "criticized" the Bill Nye show for it's presentation of gender as a spectrum as recently as two months ago, saying it's biased and pure "identity politics". We all know what he means and where he got that talking point from.

Basically the guy is a bullshitter.

He says all of the things at first that makes you think he's not so bad but then he says 1 thing that completely undermines what he said previously. And what he says aren't simple nitpicks, they are statements that completely contradict everything he said previously.

That's why his short form responses become important because without the padding you can tell without ambiguity he's still a douche.

 

[BlastProcessing]

MS needs to stay out of it. Let the market punish them if it so chooses to.

They can't stay out of it, they are already in it.

 

[Ash735]

Aww man, this game was one of the most visually and artistically well designed games MS shown off last night, I'll still get it, but will wait for a Steam sale instead just so I can appreciate the art style and effects.

 

[cntr]

I really think it's hyperbolic to suggest that buying a game like this will have any meaningful negative impact on society in any way.

Literally everything that happened in 2016 should tell you that, yes, crazy bullshit really can get a hold of the world if you ignore it.

And even besides that, bigotry is a cumulative thing. This game won't single-handedly turn people into sexists, but it's ridiculous to say that accepting it or ignoring it would have no effects whatsoever.

 

[Alavard]

i don't get it

aren't egalitarianism and feminism fighting for the same team

Egalitarianism often pretends to be above the whole battle in the first place, while denigrating those that are part of the fight.

 

[Screaming Meat]

lol so not only is the dude some misogynist, he's also a bougie asshole. The narrative premise of Last Light is that in a world with universal basic income, people lose their creative drive.

Even though they have more time to pursue their art/craft (should they wish) and don't have to change it in any way to meet market demands.

I don't get it.

 

[Stabby McSter]

Just like Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter are.

...oh

this made a lot of sense and now i'm sad

 

[Makai]

Finds item in crate

Achievement: Pickup Artist

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

Wow, fuck this game. Just keeps getting worse and worse.

 

[Alucrid]

i don't get it

aren't egalitarianism and feminism fighting for the same team

not when your view of feminism is that it only exists to bring men down. then you're the REAL progressive because you believe in egalitarianism.

 

[cubicle47b]

This and the new Ori were real standouts for their visual style last night.

 

[True Fire]

I can't believe some people are willing to look past all the GG stuff (which he clearly still believes) because it's a nice looking game.

Is it really hard to believe? This is a very objectivist industry. Gamers don't care about things that don't personally affect them. It's no surprise that the alt right and GG are resonating with gamers.

 

[Slayven]

MS needs to stay out of it. Let the market punish them if it so chooses to.

Nope, like i said they spent 2 hours talking about how they are for equality, if they stay tied to this bullshit. Then they are liars, and look two faced

 

[CornBurrito]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

I don't get it.

So automation makes humans irrelevant in the work force. UBI is implemented so people can afford to live.

This is bad because people lose creative drive (lol, cause having so much leisure time is bad for creativity even though it is the opposite).

Then the issue is automation, not UBI right? Because the alternative to UBI in that scenario is having everyone except the owners of the machines (who profit from them) die off of starvation in a world that is post food scarcity.

So... people struggling to come up with creative things to do is a worse fate than mass painful starvation of like 90-99% of humanity?

 

[Nibel]

So why do people buy R* games? Everybody knows working conditions are shit.

Vast majority of people don't know shit about game development or about Rockstar's bullshit

And even if so, most people don't care - heck, plenty of people would probably side with Rockstar

But this is for another thread

 

[Wiseblood]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

People who define themselves by what they consume? What a frightening vision of the future. Thankfully that will never happen!

 

[MegamanXZero]

What the hell happened here in the last 12 hours?
From positive reactions to a trailer to a clusterfuck of GG shit?

 

[MontyBrown]

Literally everything that happened in 2016 should tell you that, yes, crazy bullshit really can get a hold of the world if you ignore it.

I'm not American, but I think economic, education and social issues are probably the biggest factor of Trump's rise to the Presidency.

But I'm not well versed enough in American politics to get into this deeper - nor do I care to, honestly.

When/if the game comes out I'll evaluate it based on the response then and decide my purchase accordingly. This whole thing is gonna drag out and change probably.

Until then, everyone go play Technobabylon, cos that's one fucking awesome cyberpunk game.

 

[FunnyBunny]

I normally try to separate the art from the artist; I acknowledge that people with a worldview I find offensive and hurtful can create good incredible art. I don't like taking a view that a person is either all good or all bad—I'm not sure it's helpful.

I can't do that in this case because the game itself is wrapped in political ideology. Too bad, too. It looks gorgeous.

 

[jay]

This is hilarious.

 

[Buckle]

Nope, like i said they spent 2 hours talking about how they are for equality, if they stay tied to this bullshit. Then they are liars, and look two faced

Agreed.

 

[Merc_]

Is it really hard to believe? This is a very objectivist industry. Gamers don't care about things that don't personally affect them. It's no surprise that the alt right and GG are resonating with gamers.

Of course if you point out how awful gaming culture is as a result you'll get loads of anger and #NotAllGamers from those same people.

 

[Alucrid]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

"define themselves by what they consume"

so what does that say about The Last Night double dippers?

 

[CornBurrito]

People who define themselves by what they consume? What a frightening vision of the future. Thankfully that will never happen!

It's funny because this exists in a capitalist world.

People think of corporations like fucking friends. People have fucking console wars.

 

[arturo2666]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

The weird thing is that there is a lot of interesting stuff to get into regarding sci fi futures with universal income and the negative implications of it, I just don't trust this guy to look at it in a nuanced or interesting way.

I would highly recommend The Expanse sci fi series (Books/TV) for a good take on how universal income effects social strata, prejudice, and society.

 

[Jeffolation]

I can't see the writing of this game not have the rot of GG running throughout it. Easy call to skip this.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

It's very funny how the writer stopped posting in the thread when the GG news came out. He ain't shit for that.

I better not see any gaming outlets skip over this. Everyone should be grilling these guys right now.

Yeah, that's fine with me.

Get some interviews with the devs, let them defend themselves and at least, if they say things are different now, show us.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

"define themselves by what they consume"

so what does that say about The Last Night double dippers?

LOL, was thinking the same thing. Pretty ironic take.

Not to mention, people defining themselves by what they consume has been a thing since forever, wayyyy before any notions of universal basic income. It's been a thing since pop culture and fandom have been things. Christ, what nonsense.

 

[borges]

It will be good to have separate threads for the game and the creator background itself. Maybe a link on OTs to each other, in case someone is interested to dig into one or the other. It will be cool to have a thread just for the game itself, and for sure this thread is not that.

 

[Altazor]

"hey I have a great imaginative idea about a future dystopia: What if Universal Basic Income was a bad thing and people lose their motivation and creative drive?"

so misogyny + against material equality. I wonder what ideological category he fits in.

that sounds a bit Ayn Randian, though it's missing the TRAINS.

Can't forget the trains.

 

[Aters]

BAKOON‏ @BAKKOOONN 14h

https://twitter.com/BAKKOOONN/status/874088860669550592

All distributors should have this on the product page.

Is it....secretly throwing shade at Nintendo or what?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

It will be good to have separate threads for the game and the creator background itself. Maybe a link on OTs to each other, in case someone is interested to dig into one or the other. It will be cool to have a thread just for the game itself, and for sure this thread is not that.

This is the announcement thread. Once the OT is out in all likelyhood a separate thread will be made to discuss this assuming there's anything worth discussing at that point in the future

 

[Alucrid]

It will be good to have separate threads for the game and the creator background itself. Maybe a link on OTs to each other, in case someone is interested to dig into one or the other. It will be cool to have a thread just for the game itself, and for sure this thread is not that.

The Last Night |OT| A safe cyberspace for milkshake ducks