BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Thread title made me picture an MSX themed cradle with a baby smoking a cigarette inside.
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The MSX Nostalgia thread A return to the cradle of Solid Snake
- Thread starter foobarry81
- Start date
foobarry81
Member
You mean the Beep shop, right?
Yes, collecting for MSX is expensive.
An MSX2 computer will cost you €70 and up nowadays. MSX2+ is €150 and up. Turbo R is €350+.
Games on cartridges will cost you at least €20 for a loose cart in many cases. Only cassette based games are cheap still. Diskette based games tend to be really expensive too because they came late in the MSX life cycle and I think print numbers were smaller. There are a couple of games on LaserDisc too. Very expensive as well, but not worth it other than for collecting purposes.
A decent number of games go for a couple of hundred euros CIB nowadays, e.g. Space Manbow, Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Final Fantasy, Yurei-kun, Aleste 2, Magical Tree, Cabbage Patch Kids, ...
Surely your mind also pictures that baby crawling under a box?
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I have a boxed MSX copy of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, which is near and dear to my heart. It cost me quite a bit of money, but it was totally worth it.
Also, a few years ago, I bought a one chip MSX, which I highly recommend if you're looking to play some MSX games and want the convenience of USB support, S-Video, and two card slots.
Not to mention, it looks sexy as hell.
Also, a few years ago, I bought a one chip MSX, which I highly recommend if you're looking to play some MSX games and want the convenience of USB support, S-Video, and two card slots.
Not to mention, it looks sexy as hell.
foobarry81
Member
You don't have a floppy drive on the OCM though, and afaik it doesn't emulate (it's an FPGA based computer) all games completely accurately (but most are done right!). But yeah: very convenient indeed due to the small form factor. They're very desirable (and thus pricey) nowadays too. For that money, you might as well buy a Turbo R.
MG2:SS is easily a €200 game these days. One of the best games on the system though and a piece of gaming history. I cherish my copy too. ;-)
I've had so many people trying to buy my mint condition Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake games (box+cartridge+manual in a 9.8 / 10 condition with only the "white" color of the box so ever slightly yellowish almost imperceptible to the untrained eye) but I think those 200-300 are not exactly going to save my life and I will regret selling them forever.
Splash Wave
Member
I did mean Beep, yes. Going there was incredibly overwhelming, as I've never felt so out of my element in a game shop; Japanese PC games are a complete mystery to me. I think the fact that everything felt so foreign is primarily what's attracting me to the MSX/Japanese computers in general. I love the old PC boxes, the hardware, and the monitors.
Where would be a good place to start? They had so many different options, the cheapest of which seemed to be the Pioneer VX-P60. I'm not a collector, but I really like playing games on their original hardware. I want to learn more.
foobarry81
Member
I have no idea tbh. I only play the games on the original hardware. But most MSX emulators are good. There are even some cycle accurate ones. I have no idea which one Nintendo uses though.
That VX-P60 is an MSX1 if I'm not mistaken. If you want to play games on your computer, an MSX1 will limit you to games that were produced until 1986. After that most games are either MSX2 exclusive or the MSX2 version of them is the superior one.
Getting an MSX2+ or a Turbo R (the third and fourth generation of MSX computers respectively) is only worth it if you're looking for something specific. So I'd advice to start off with an MSX2.
There are plenty of models out there. Most Japanese MSX2 computers come with 64K of RAM, which is enough in my opinion, but if you want to do other things than just gaming on it, you may want to look for a model with 128K or 256K (or a modded one with 512K) of RAM.
You may also want to look into which output the computer has. There are those with S-Video out, but not all models have it. Also there are models with only 1 cartridge slot. If you plan on collecting Konami games, or plan to use an external FM sound cartridge, you'll need 2 cartridge slots.
Also if you're interested in diskette based games or cassette based games, keep in mind that not all models come with a disk drive or with a port for a cassette player. A model with a disk drive is definitely more desirable.
Noisepurge's has written down this buyer's guide some time ago.
Splash Wave
Member
This is extremely helpful, thank you. This rabbit hole is going deep; now I'm looking at Sharp X68000s and getting curious about those, too...
Anyway, here are a couple of shots I took at Beep yesterday. I was trying to be somewhat discreet, so most of my photos didn't turn out.
DSC04502 by James Stavrinides, on Flickr
DSC04501 by James Stavrinides, on Flickr
DSC04496 by James Stavrinides, on Flickr
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Heh, I guess I need to fast-track my Japanese PC thread. I've got tons of GIFs ready and a recommendations macro in the works toosadly my timing will be crap no matter what this holiday blockbuster season.
Since those games run on Project EGG's emulators, they should be dead-on accurate. Amusement Center's been doing this kind of service for tons of Japanese PC games since they started in 2001 as Soft-City under Bothtec. I think you should look into signing up for EGG and playing a ton of non-MSX J-PC stuff, too, since prices are fairly low for most games on the service and emulation's not an issue.
sixteen-bit
Member
Super Mario World MSX port shaping up surprisingly well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FBsTTt1q1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FBsTTt1q1o
foobarry81
Member
That video is from a year ago.
But yeah, it does show that they already managed to do some great work on what is likely quite a big project.
foobarry81
Member
Seems like a Spanish collective is working on creating a 5th generation of MSX. (I was aware of those Brazilians working on a new MSX computer, no idea how far they are along.)
The Spaniards showed the first prototypes of their "MSX3" on their blog:
http://www.msxblog.es/desvelados-los-primeros-prototipos-de-msx3/
The Spaniards showed the first prototypes of their "MSX3" on their blog:
http://www.msxblog.es/desvelados-los-primeros-prototipos-de-msx3/
sixteen-bit
Member
One for the soundalike thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBIH7S0HrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyBIH7S0HrQ
foobarry81
Member
Yup, that's what a bad ripoff sounds like. ;-)
I figured you guys might get a kick out of this: Osorubeshi! Xaklogian, a doujin shooting game for PC in the style of a MSX game, complete with juddery scrolling and the like. It's simple but fun and not too difficult:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xBklX3zkGs
The author (gyonin) has made several other MSX-style shooting games; you can findmost of them here: http://userweb.alles.or.jp/gyonin/game.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xBklX3zkGs
The author (gyonin) has made several other MSX-style shooting games; you can findmost of them here: http://userweb.alles.or.jp/gyonin/game.htm
foobarry81
Member
Lol, it's a 32.7 Mb file. Seems like he took some liberties with it being an MSX style game. ;-)
I don't get why you would want to replicate the MSX1 (no scrolling registers) and MSX2 (no horizontal scrolling register) scrolling (it wasn't an issue in later generations anymore) when you are not sticking to other MSX limitations tbh.
I don't get why you would want to replicate the MSX1 (no scrolling registers) and MSX2 (no horizontal scrolling register) scrolling (it wasn't an issue in later generations anymore) when you are not sticking to other MSX limitations tbh.
gingerbeardman
Member
So I'm wondering if there's any record of who might have drawn the box art for this MSX game?
I'm a big Hanafuda Koi-Koi fan and I simply had to buy this game because of the artwork. I've been watching every for years and finally managed to get a copy in excellent condition at a reasonable price.
Ram Soft Hanafuda Koi-Koi (1984)
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ramsofthanafudakoikoi/
I don't own an MSX, but play the odd game using emulation.
I'm a big Hanafuda Koi-Koi fan and I simply had to buy this game because of the artwork. I've been watching every for years and finally managed to get a copy in excellent condition at a reasonable price.
Ram Soft Hanafuda Koi-Koi (1984)
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ramsofthanafudakoikoi/
I don't own an MSX, but play the odd game using emulation.
foobarry81
Member
That is a really nice cover indeed.
I'm having a hard time already finding any info on that company RAM Software, let alone that I'd find anything on the artist that did the box art... Tbh I wouldn't even know where to start looking, lol.
If you're into great covers, I can recommend getting Ninjakun: Ashura no Shou: http://www.gamefaqs.com/msx/941484-ninja-kun-ashura-no-shou/images/191571
I got a complete copy earlier this year and it's just stunning imo.
gingerbeardman
Member
That looks great. Expensive?
Laevateinn
Member
This is a cool thread. I got an MSX a month ago but the only thing I have is Snatcher. Looking forward to picking up some games when I go to Japan this spring.
foobarry81
Member
It's not cheap. But compared to some other MSX titles, it's still doable. I paid around 45 for it.
If you're going to Tokyo, you might want to try the new BEEP shop in Akihabara. They should still have a decent selection. The MSX shelves in stores like Super Potato are completely barren these days from what I've heard. Be prepared to pay some hefty prices though.
You'll probably have better luck finding reasonably priced MSX games outside of Tokyo, or else in Japanese online stores if that's an option for you when you are in the country.
Could someone give advice about choosing the best MSX models please? Every article says that I should not buy a 2+ or Turbo R, because there are very few games using the plus power. But there are still many variations and editions of MSX2.
So my questions:
-is it really the MSX 2 the best option here? I know that there are few games explicitly requiring the more powerful machines, but all the other games wouldn't run on those with better framerate or smoother scrolling?
-is the operating system locked in language, or could I switch to English if I buy a Japanese or Arabic or any other version?
-are the games region free?
-what are the 3-4 best models of MSX2 for gaming?
Thanks!
So my questions:
-is it really the MSX 2 the best option here? I know that there are few games explicitly requiring the more powerful machines, but all the other games wouldn't run on those with better framerate or smoother scrolling?
-is the operating system locked in language, or could I switch to English if I buy a Japanese or Arabic or any other version?
-are the games region free?
-what are the 3-4 best models of MSX2 for gaming?
Thanks!
foobarry81
Member
Noisepurge's buying guide may be of some help: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=473147
It really comes down to what you're willing to spend on a 30yo computer. An MSX2 is usually the cheaper option compared to an MSX2+ and certainly a Turbo R. That's why it's recommended in most cases imo.
As you mentioned, there are like 10 games that are developed specifically for the Turbo R, and maybe one or 2 of those (Illusion City) are worth it. Those games aren't playable on an MSX2 or MSX2+. There's some Turbo R specific home brew out there as well. So if you absolutely want to play those and you think it's worth the extra dough, go for a Turbo R. A Turbo R will set you back at least $400 nowadays. Personally, I don't think it's worth it, if all you want to do is play games.
Then there are a number of games that will run on an MSX2, but they just run better on an MSX2+. "Running better" can mean that the scrolling is better, and/or that the music is better, or simply that there is an extra splash screen somewhere. The most notable one among the games that are MSX2+ enhanced is Space Manbow imo, which is arguably one of the best 8-bit shoot 'em ups out there. But there's also games like Aleste 2 (developed by Compile, of MUSHA fame), Fray - In Magical Adventure, SD Snatcher, Quarth, and Final Fantasy that take advantage of the MSX2+ specs. If you're going for an MSX2+, I would pick one of the Panasonic models that come with MSX-Music built in. But you could always get another model too, then buy an MSX-Music compatible extension cartridge afterwards. There are also modded MSX2 computers out there that are essentially MSX2+'s. Back in the day, since only Japan got an official MSX2+ release, European users had to get their MSX2's modded to comply with the new standard, and some did.
For most people though any MSX2 computer will do, because most of the MSX software will work on those. If you're going for an MSX2, I would first and foremost try and get a model that is fit for your region. European MSX2 computers run on 220V, Japanese ones run on 100V. So if I were in the States (110V), I'd probably get a Japanese one. There are modded computers out there too that work on 100-220V, btw.
Secondly, make sure your computer has a floppy drive (preferably with a recently replaced drive belt), and that it has 2 cartridge slots.
If you're buying a Japanese computer, you might want to look for a model with more than 64K RAM. Especially for some floppy disk games, home brew and for some extension cartridges, you will need the extra RAM. Again, there are modded computers out there with extra RAM. In most cases 64K RAM will be sufficient though. But if you have the choice, go for more RAM.
So, I don't think there's a better brand or a better model out there per se. But there are certainly a number of things, depending on where you live, you may want to look out for before buying one.
In Europe, I would personally go for one of the following Philips models: NMS 8245, 8250, 8255 or 8280.
Elsewhere I'd probably look into Sony's or Panasonic's MSX2 and MSX2+'s range, keeping all of the above in mind.
But if you bump into another model from another brand that fits all of your requirements, that may be perfectly fine too.
To my knowledge the operating system (MSX-Basic) is always in English. If you just want to play games you shouldn't even give this a second thought. You just plug in the game and it immediately boots to the in-game menu of the game. You won't even see the operating system.
Keep in mind though that there are some games out there where the in-game menu will change depending on what region your computer is from. E.g. the menu of Usas will be in Japanese on a Japanese MSX and in English on a European MSX.
There are a few notable exceptions, but as a general rule: yes.
Notable exceptions:
- a Japanese Metal Gear cartridge will not work on a European MSX computer.
- some games on floppy disk don't work in other regions.
See above.
Thanks man, everything's clear!
Laevateinn
Member
I keep hearing good things about BEEP. Is it a newer shop? I didn't see it on my last visit.
By outside of Tokyo, do you mean small cities in Kanto or Osaka. We'll be heading to Kyoto and Osaka for a few days. We can always go to Chiba or wherever else if you know of any. I have a PC-98, FM Towns and X68000 as well so I'm very much looking for a good shop.
I also use Yahoo Auctions pretty frequently but I'm holding off until I get back to save more money.
foobarry81
Member
BEEP used to be a video game magazine. Might still be one, but maybe purely online/digital nowadays. I'm not entirely sure, but I think they must've also had some sort of store and a warehouse wherever they made/make that magazine. What I AM sure of is that they used to have a service where you could ask them to go find a (rare) retro game for you and they would then give themselves a year's time to get you your game. They also used to sell stock on a regular basis through their blog. Often for a really good price too. I got my copy of Zanac Ex through that blog. They also regularly post pics on their blog of stuff they've acquired.
Late 2015 they opened a store in Akihabara: http://www.lavandeira.net/2015/09/new-retro-shop-opening-in-akihabara/
They even had brand new ("new old stock") MSX computers in there. Not sure if any are left now. But if you're into Japanese eighties computers, they should have some good stuff in there. One way or the other, they seem to have been sitting on quite a bit of stock.
When I said "outside of Tokyo", I meant anywhere else than Akihabara.
Any game store in Kyoto or Osaka is probably cheaper than most stores in Akihabara. There's a couple of interesting game stores (e.g. Mandarake) in Nakano too for example. That's not to say that you can't find any deals in the bargain bins of stores like Friends or Trader in Akihabara. You could also find games at great prices in Book Offs or Hard Offs in the city. But on average I'd say your chances at a good deal are slimmer there. Specifically for MSX, it's become increasingly difficult to find anything good and reasonably priced on the high street.So if you're travelling around, and there are game stores in whatever place you are in the countryside, it's probably worth checking them out. Rather than wait with the game shopping until you get to Tokyo.
foobarry81
Member
PC Gamer did a feature on "Japan's underdog PC", the MSX: http://www.pcgamer.com/the-bright-life-of-the-msx-japans-underdog-pc/
Nice
Figured I'd keep this thread alive with a recent pick-up, got this bad boy in the mail yesterday for a steal, way less than the going rate for it inbox:
I do prefer the gameplay of the NES Castlevania, but this is a super interesting piece of Konami and Castlevania history that it's worth owing and playing through.
I do prefer the gameplay of the NES Castlevania, but this is a super interesting piece of Konami and Castlevania history that it's worth owing and playing through.
Laevateinn
Member
I bought (haven't played) that when I was in Tokyo recently and less than a week later I saw it complete in box for less than I paid for a loose cart.
I get lost in the Rondo of Blood so I'll probably have a rough time with this one but I am looking forward to playing it after I've gone through a lot of my back log.
sixteen-bit
Member
Awesome pickup!
I was going to pick it up in Tokyo in March when I got my MSX2 and some games, but everywhere I went wanted it for 14,000 yen ($130-ish) or more, ended up finding it on eBay for $80.
If you have a hard time with the lite-exploration elements in Rondo, this might drive you nuts. You have to use keys to get from area to area, and other than the first level they don't necessarily make them easy to find. There's a lot of weird, awkward elements in this version that never carried over to other Castlevania games, like there's two invincibility power-ups for some reason, one works just like the one in the NES version, and the other works more like a Star in Mario, where Simon is not only invincible but kills enemies by touching them. Not sure what the thought process was that there's two power-ups that do nearly the same thing.
I also hate that the standard chain whip power-up is temporary in this game, it's bizarre to be playing and not die, and lose your whip power-up. Again, very strange take on Castlevania.
Thanks! Just slowly ticking off boxes on my MSX wish list, Famicle Parodic is probably going to be the next one if the copy I'm eyeing doesn't get bought by next payday.
foobarry81
Member
You might also want to look out for Famicle Parodic 2. Unlike the first one, the sequel is an MSX2 game, and looks and sounds considerably better.
I haven't played the first one, but enjoy the 2nd one quite a bit even though it relies firmly on pattern memorization gameplay-wise.
Not sure what the situation is today, but I got a CIB copy of FP2 for around $70 a couple of years back. So I don't think it's super sought after?
And congrats on Vampire Killer.
I've never seen a physical copy of the second one available, and the first one routinely goes for $150 loose, double that CIB :/
tearsofash
Member
Does anyone know a good site to get MSX accessories? My friend needs an MSX mouse or something.
TannerDemoz
Member
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSX-ELECOM-EGG-MOUSE-MSX-/302318755664?hash=item46639a1f50:g:GgwAAOSwdzVXjZBK
Found one on eBay for $52, but I wouldn't recommend eBay for MSX collecting as a general rule, everything is very expensive and is aimed at the collector market. MSX is pretty niche to collect for and the eBay listings are aimed at that niche.
foobarry81
Member
I would try and get all your MSX stuff from fellow collectors on msx.org forums. You'll get a way better deal than through eBay.
There's also some Spanish company/online store that sells some MSX accessories, but I can't recall its name right now and also don't know if they sell mice.
gingerbeardman
Member
MSX HELP CLAXON
I want to play a public domain MSX game:
花札こいこい (Hanafuda Koi-Koi)
http://msx-fan-wiki.appspot.com/view/1099
So I found MSX-Fan Issue 26 (1994) Disks 1&2 and installed the game onto a blank .dsk image.
This plays OK in openMSX.
dsk: https://workupload.com/file/c8j3ucL
I used dsk2rom to convert it to a .rom file.
This plays OK in openMSX.
rom: https://workupload.com/file/tLKnEbJ
I want to play in Retroarch fMSX (on my N3DS) which only supports .rom files.
But when I run the .rom in fMSX it says:
Can anybody help?
Thanks!
I want to play a public domain MSX game:
花札こいこい (Hanafuda Koi-Koi)
http://msx-fan-wiki.appspot.com/view/1099
So I found MSX-Fan Issue 26 (1994) Disks 1&2 and installed the game onto a blank .dsk image.
This plays OK in openMSX.
dsk: https://workupload.com/file/c8j3ucL
I used dsk2rom to convert it to a .rom file.
This plays OK in openMSX.
rom: https://workupload.com/file/tLKnEbJ
I want to play in Retroarch fMSX (on my N3DS) which only supports .rom files.
But when I run the .rom in fMSX it says:
Can anybody help?
Thanks!
Figured I'd update this thread with my recent get:
The Sony MSX2 HB-F1XD, probably the sleekest MSX2 made, love the red disk drive, it really seals the look of it.
Also, I can't be the only one somewhat irritated by the title of this thread, am I? The MSX was waaay more than just Metal Gear.
The Sony MSX2 HB-F1XD, probably the sleekest MSX2 made, love the red disk drive, it really seals the look of it.
Also, I can't be the only one somewhat irritated by the title of this thread, am I? The MSX was waaay more than just Metal Gear.
Laevateinn
Member
Figured I'd update this thread with my recent get:
The Sony MSX2 HB-F1XD, probably the sleekest MSX2 made, love the red disk drive, it really seals the look of it.
Also, I can't be the only one somewhat irritated by the title of this thread, am I? The MSX was waaay more than just Metal Gear.
That's the version I have. I still need to pick up more software though.
foobarry81
Member
Congrats! It IS a really nice model. I definitely love MSX computers with those Ren-Sha Turbo sliders. And you even managed to get a boxed copy which is the icing on the cake.
Iirc Mark from Classic Game Room recently reviewed that model as well.
I picked that thread title to try and appeal to and lure in the more mainstream gamer who is unfamiliar with the MSX, btw. In the OP on the other hand, I did try to make it clear that there was more out there than Metal Gear.
Edit: nope, it was the HB-F1 II -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk8dZcbFDsU
Iirc Mark from Classic Game Room recently reviewed that model as well.
I picked that thread title to try and appeal to and lure in the more mainstream gamer who is unfamiliar with the MSX, btw. In the OP on the other hand, I did try to make it clear that there was more out there than Metal Gear.
Edit: nope, it was the HB-F1 II -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk8dZcbFDsU
Oh boy. I remember playing Aleste on a friend's MSX. Such a good game. And the cute Konami penguin game. There was also an educational game called La Abeja Sabia, which got progressively faster and harder as you beat the level to the point of becoming impossible. That one was not a good game ^^'
leesmapman
Member
You know it's a Hideo Kojima game? (featured in MGS4, where Emma is playing it on a PSP)
Get on my level, bro!
But seriously, MSX collecting can be really expensive if you're not careful. If you're patient and have resources available to you in Japan, like friends and acquaintances living there who would be happy to look for things, use that. I got a huge chunk of my boxed Konami games thanks to a guy who found them in a Hard-Off store and just asked if anybody was interested. None of them were over ¥5000, which is unheard of for MSX games on the second hand retail market.
I've also been looking at Yahoo Auctions via a proxy service called Buyee, and you can find great deals there if you're dilligent, too.
Yeah I understand, to a lot of people who aren't familiar with the MSX they just know it as where Metal Gear got started, sadly most people aren't curious enough to look into MSX computers otherwise. I've seen Metal Gear fans who spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on copies of Metal Gear 1 and 2 for the MSX2 complete inbox and never bother to actually buy an MSX2 computer to play them on, seems like a waste to me.
foobarry81
Member
It (Penguin Adventure) was the first game he worked on after joining Konami's dedicated MSX team as an assistant designer.
Penguin Adventure sort of was a sequel to Antarctic Adventure, and Kojima wasn't involved at all with that first game.
Space Manbow for under ¥5000 is an insane deal.
Laevateinn
Member
Tell me about it. I collect X68000 titles....
foobarry81
Member
Right around the time Metal Gear Solid V launched about 5 or so copies of MG2 got sold on eBay, all in the $800 region. As you said, probably copies that will sadly never ever be played again on original hardware.
Anyway, at least those people know about the existence of the MSX games, I guess... For many people that franchise started on the NES. Or the PS1.
Since we're sharing, I took a few quick pics of my software set. The loose carts in the boxes are mostly spares.
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