CaptainLoveline
Member
The next big leap is raytracing in 2025, running at a completely reasonable 15FPS.
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The next big graphical feature leap
- Thread starter Sosokrates
- Start date
Ballthyrm
Member
Shadows and dynamic lightning are nowhere near what they could be, there is a reason you only see good ones in horor games, that #### is expensive.
Everything that has to do with animations and subsurface scatterring, we are beginning to see it used in big linear games like uncharted 4 but the majority of games don't have them.
Physics on every object in the scene and dynamic destruction of everything (and i mean everything, not tin house with nothing in it). We had a quick taste with thing like Rainbow 6 siege but i can see it going further.
Mass intelligent AI with agendas and that can react realistically to the player action (again we are nowhere near that).
I don't see anything getting anywhere close to what we can see in Pixar movies or Blizzard cinematics. With enough horsepower even the latest WoW video could run real time.
Everything that has to do with animations and subsurface scatterring, we are beginning to see it used in big linear games like uncharted 4 but the majority of games don't have them.
Physics on every object in the scene and dynamic destruction of everything (and i mean everything, not tin house with nothing in it). We had a quick taste with thing like Rainbow 6 siege but i can see it going further.
Mass intelligent AI with agendas and that can react realistically to the player action (again we are nowhere near that).
I don't see anything getting anywhere close to what we can see in Pixar movies or Blizzard cinematics. With enough horsepower even the latest WoW video could run real time.
Senua
Member
Yea I think you are missing my point
They mostly do that to keep games fun and playable. AI that is too good is no fun, there need to be rules and patterns.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
I wish we had a game like this
It's certainly not a new technique but I'm really hoping that anti-aliasing becomes far more prominent moving forwards.
Some games do already do it well but only have to look at the X version Forza 7 to see how much it needs to improve as resolutions improve. It's an incredible looking game. irrelevant of which system you're playing it on but the aliasing is far more distracting on the X as it's more noticeable due to the improvements elsewhere.
I would like top quality AA to become almost free to the developers next generation as the resolutions will be higher universally. A good implementation of AA really can give such a boost to the image quality that you're seeing onscreen.
Some games do already do it well but only have to look at the X version Forza 7 to see how much it needs to improve as resolutions improve. It's an incredible looking game. irrelevant of which system you're playing it on but the aliasing is far more distracting on the X as it's more noticeable due to the improvements elsewhere.
I would like top quality AA to become almost free to the developers next generation as the resolutions will be higher universally. A good implementation of AA really can give such a boost to the image quality that you're seeing onscreen.
I wish we had a game like this
Where do I recall seeing this game?? Was it shown recently at E3?
Toe-Knee
Member
Shifty
Member
Raytracing for sure. It's still a long way off, but it's a total gamechanger compared to traditional rasterized rendering.
You can do some really interesting stuff when you're able to define the behaviour of individual photons in code.
You can do some really interesting stuff when you're able to define the behaviour of individual photons in code.
OrionFalls
Member
We are running into bigger barriers in actually producing assets than rendering it. Just look at the character models in Horizon for example, those are incredibly detailed at least in cutscenes and building that level of detail is a huge effort from artists.
Likewise the number of animations needed is huge and then you have to throw in any new dynamic animation systems that adapt the animations to where you are moving. Holding your hand near walls in UC3 is an example of this sort of stuff.
I'd see rather than graphical leaps, we will have leaps in real-time physics, animation and perhaps AI if someone manages to develop a library that can be adapted to game developer needs. You have to remember that a lot of AI in games is intentionally dumbed down to not seem unfair to the player. Good AI in games is essentially just state machines that react to player stimulus in ways that make sense or give the illusion of different characters having personalities.
The PS4 was supposed to have great physics and games like Resogun and Knack tried to demonstrate how much crap they can have flying around on the screen but that never materialized into most games. Getting better CPUs on next gen consoles will help in having more complex simulations which could lead to more deformation options for scenery or better looking cloth on characters.
Likewise the number of animations needed is huge and then you have to throw in any new dynamic animation systems that adapt the animations to where you are moving. Holding your hand near walls in UC3 is an example of this sort of stuff.
I'd see rather than graphical leaps, we will have leaps in real-time physics, animation and perhaps AI if someone manages to develop a library that can be adapted to game developer needs. You have to remember that a lot of AI in games is intentionally dumbed down to not seem unfair to the player. Good AI in games is essentially just state machines that react to player stimulus in ways that make sense or give the illusion of different characters having personalities.
The PS4 was supposed to have great physics and games like Resogun and Knack tried to demonstrate how much crap they can have flying around on the screen but that never materialized into most games. Getting better CPUs on next gen consoles will help in having more complex simulations which could lead to more deformation options for scenery or better looking cloth on characters.
Laurel_McFang
Member
TBH I think the next big leap will in A.I. You know how you read about neural networks all the time? Well IBM, Nvidia, etc are all developing hardware specifically for that. Those digital assistants are just getting smarter etc.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHoNpxUHewQ
Imagine being able to simply develop points of interest for A.I. Characters or to be able to have A.I. With enough understanding of an environment that it could describe how to get to a procedural destination or make up motives on the go or lie to you. The models driving A.I. Are getting better all the time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtP3gl_2kBM
More dialog less mocap. Etc. the biggest issue game devs currently fave is that stastical learning systems require large gpu loads and games already push gpu limits, but with A.I. Specific processors hitting the market and lowering the gap we could see amazing thing.
Imagine neural style transfer inside a game:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Khuj4ASldmU
More extensive voxel renders could also help.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHoNpxUHewQ
Imagine being able to simply develop points of interest for A.I. Characters or to be able to have A.I. With enough understanding of an environment that it could describe how to get to a procedural destination or make up motives on the go or lie to you. The models driving A.I. Are getting better all the time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtP3gl_2kBM
More dialog less mocap. Etc. the biggest issue game devs currently fave is that stastical learning systems require large gpu loads and games already push gpu limits, but with A.I. Specific processors hitting the market and lowering the gap we could see amazing thing.
Imagine neural style transfer inside a game:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Khuj4ASldmU
More extensive voxel renders could also help.
MrJollyLivesNextDoor
Member
Is real time raytracing in games really the future? We've been able to raytrace in realtime for years now, although always less complex scenes/effects than what could be approximated through rasterisation for the given technology.
Would it be true to to say this would also be true of the future as well? In 2025 we may be able to raytrace GT Sport in it's current form ...but rasterized rendering methods would have moved on significantly too
Toe-Knee
Member
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Good post. Graphics are pretty good already. But AI still kind of sucks.
Simple Soul
Member
I'll be another downer and say that I really don't care much for graphics at this point. To me, all modern games look amazing. Whether one looks a tiny bit more awesometacular doesn't really matter at this point. I get used to graphics really fast. What I am hoping for is new leaps in gameplay, in AI, in open world design. The interactive stuff rather than the visuals.
This is also completely out of my ass and just a gut feeling, but I do feel that there is too much emphasis by developers on visuals. I don't like how big of a selling point it is for games. It's honestly the least important factor for me now, when so many games look so good.
But to be just a bit on topic - I can't imagine what the next leap will be, because it's photo-realistic to me right now even (mainly Naughty Dog stuff).
This is also completely out of my ass and just a gut feeling, but I do feel that there is too much emphasis by developers on visuals. I don't like how big of a selling point it is for games. It's honestly the least important factor for me now, when so many games look so good.
But to be just a bit on topic - I can't imagine what the next leap will be, because it's photo-realistic to me right now even (mainly Naughty Dog stuff).
From now on the graphical leap will be slower and less noticeable than before, AAA games already cost too much to make and they don't have enough return to justify even bigger budgets, and games are moving always more into online only experience and mobile where they can make more money, also the release of PS4 Pro and Xbox One X instead of a proper new generation don't help.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
raytracing is a buzzword and its extremely ineffective at rendering.
better pass on that ancient tech for videogames.
the jump in gaming will be vr its as simple as that .
FULL IMMERSION
phoisgood495
Member
The next big jump will be in the VR space. I know it gets a lot of hate in the community, but when it's done right it is incredible for me. VR has a lot of catch up to do in terms of graphical fidelity right now, but when we can deliver experiences on par with Uncharted or Horizon in VR it's going to blow people's minds.
Boss Mog
Member
Don't expect much progress next gen. Next gen will be true 4K/30fps with not that much better graphics than this gen sadly. As long as TVs continue to gain pixel count, extra GPU is always going to go towards rendering those extra pixels rather than more complex geometry, lighting, textures, framerate, effects, etc... I'm hoping that 4K will still be the standard when PS6 comes out so we could get 4K/60fps but I doubt this will be the case.
There probably won't be one for a while outside of 4k and i hope that lasts for at least 10 more years. I do agree that i would love a big leap in a.i. for games, its what i'm really waiting for. For now i would just love unique worlds to visit. Don't wow me with the pretty graphics but with the beautiful craziness of the world that you created.
Shifty
Member
Realistically speaking, things will probably remain the way they are now for a long time going forward since rasterization works and there's no inherent reason for the real-time graphics industry to pursue raytracing.
If a shift happens, it'll likely be because of a major change in the requirements for rendering that outdates rasterization- stuff like polygons becoming replaced by density functions as a method for describing surfaces, or linear perspective projection no longer being sufficiently accurate for future super high FOV VR implementations.
If that does happen though, it'll mean graphics programming becoming a considerably simpler thing to understand as rasterizing is all about faking something that looks correct using layers, multiple passes and post-process effects, whereas raytracing bakes all of that data into each ray, making it considerably easier to grok from an implementation standpoint.
Real-time raytracing tends to get usage as a supplementary technique in present-day rendering. It's feasible for simpler tasks due to the way its computational cost scales- low complexity/resolution is very cheap, but becomes exponentially more expensive as the pixel count increases. Hence why it's not currently feasible for a full rendering pipeline.
For example, Unreal 4 uses a technique called 'ray-traced distance fields' for certain things like far off shadows and particle collisions, but relies on traditional rasterization for everything else.
It's also often used for physically-accurate offline calculation of static baked lighting- you can take as long as you want calculating the movement of each photon in a scene, then bake it into cheap texture lookups for runtime usage.
Astral Dog
Member
Im not sure i care anymore i have poor eyesigh :'(
But imo if games keep improving on what we have tpday i will be satisfied
But imo if games keep improving on what we have tpday i will be satisfied
In 20 years AAA looking games will cost near to nothing to make thanks to AI driven engines, with a few parameters the engine will recreate real cities at perfection at every detail in no time, procedurals actors, animation, voices, scripts, intelligence made all by a neural network. Nowdays, to make a AAA game cost thousands of dollars because that games require hundred of man hours of work.
DarkArterialGore
Member
Yep, in game animations have been hot garbage, foot planting and basic kinetic movement haven't advanced much since 2005 besides maybe sports games like NBA2K.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
16K
Sizemore24
Member
the question is Do weed them it? Are we creating something we don't need?
Honeslty i'm finie with the Graphics right now...do I need a leap in the next 5-6 years..not @ all.
Bring me quality games.
Same as action movie...way too much stuff instead of real quality. No wonder movie like Ge Out are so amazing right now...not much cgi but real quality in story
Honeslty i'm finie with the Graphics right now...do I need a leap in the next 5-6 years..not @ all.
Bring me quality games.
Same as action movie...way too much stuff instead of real quality. No wonder movie like Ge Out are so amazing right now...not much cgi but real quality in story
Toe-Knee
Member
Actually after playing the horizon expansion I noticed something that bugs me a lot but I always forget.
It normally happens in cutscenes.
Objects on clothing with physics don't a sudden jump when the camera focuses as if the character just landed.
Bloodborne did this too when on lifts the coat would spazz out and usually clip through the character.
Id love for things like this to be fixed.
It normally happens in cutscenes.
Objects on clothing with physics don't a sudden jump when the camera focuses as if the character just landed.
Bloodborne did this too when on lifts the coat would spazz out and usually clip through the character.
Id love for things like this to be fixed.
Lighting and colour palette on this screenshots are so fucking boring. It's like the developers had no personality, had nothing inside. They only thing they can do is "pretty pictures"
eso76
Member
This.
Raytracing basically means nothing without further information on what's being raytraced and to what degree of accuracy btw.
And better physics. Cloth physics. Soft body physics. Liquids.
I could be happy with today's level of graphical fidelity aside from those. In many cases budget is a much tighter limit than tech already.
Sure more polys to get rid of draw in and stuff in the distance looking ugly, but that's sort of natural evolution, along with higher quality shadows, AO etc.
Also, we don't need to go beyond 4k.
In-game this is usually just the usually fairly simple cloth physics doing weird stuff. In cutscenes this is often the character loading in and the gravity applied to his or her clothes.
Path Tracing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT6MkCeP7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZlCWLbwC-0
Voxels could also be pretty interesting. Especially from a gameplay perspective. It has the potential to be A LOT less static than polygons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT6MkCeP7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZlCWLbwC-0
Voxels could also be pretty interesting. Especially from a gameplay perspective. It has the potential to be A LOT less static than polygons.
Don't kid yourself
In engine has nothing to do with in game. Well yeah something, but not overly much. Particularly in Naughty Dog games.
dr_rus
Member
Full dynamic global illumination with world space ambient occlusion making stuff like volumetric lighting usable with time of day cycling across all genres.
More advanced and more widespread usage of decoupled shading approaches which should help with making shaders more complex while still being able to render closer to true 4K.
More applications of general GPU compute and some uses of deep machine learning for real time graphics.
On a list of things which will never happen: "raytracing".
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I wish we had a game like this
I bet this could be done on current gen by a talented dev, big budget and time.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I wish we had a game like this
Oh man, I remember when they told us the PS4 could do that lol.
pwnzernator
Member
More characters on screen - smarter characters that each think and act a different way. Think of GTA in NYC with hundreds of thousands of people to interact with - every café/store is available for you to go inside, etc. - that is the future.